Opinion: The Bucks are in Trouble

[Valid]

Fantastic win for the C's.  Great comeback, but the C's needed a comeback because the Bucks were up 19.  The Bucks then forgot how to shoot.  Some of that was the C's defense of course, but they also just missed a lot of wide open shots.  It happens.  I wouldn't write their demise quite yet.

I think the game was emblematic of the issues I already saw, but these are things I noticed before last night. It's not just from one game.

What if last season was the anomaly, not the new norm?

They are a streaky shooting team, but at the end of the day they still have the best player in the world and that matters a great deal.  They've also played a pretty tough schedule as Houston, Miami, and Boston are all 3-1 and even the Cavs are 2-2.  So the record of their opponents not against the Bucks is 9-3. 

It is 4 games.  4 games isn't enough to confirm or deny anything about a team.  After 20 games if they are still struggling and look like a middling team, then maybe they are in fact trouble, but I suspect they will have a nice little win streak in there and look more like the 60 win team of last year than a middling team they've looked like thus far.

The Bucks have Kawhi Leonard now?

Lol are we seriously calling Giannis the "best player in the world" after what Kawhi did to him last year? Giannis is not even on Kawhi's level.

As for the Bucks? Said all last year they were a fluke. If the Celtics were even moderately together as a team last season they would have beaten them in the playoffs. They then lost Brogdon, who was probably their second-best player last year.

They are still one of the best teams in the East because the East is so bad, but contender they are not.

Keep in mind I am not necessarily calling the Celtics a legitimate contender yet, either. I just don't think the Bucks are, nor do I think any team in the East truly has a realistic shot of winning the title.

[Valid]

They're still a top 2-3 team in the East.  It took a stellar comeback plus some cold shooting by them last night to get the Celtics the win. 

Certainly wouldn't write off that team.

No one is writing off anyone. Read the original post please.

I'm not sure they are a top 2-3 team in the East. They were last year, but the year before they were like the 7-8th seed. Maybe last year was the anomaly. Are we absolutely confident they are better than the Sixers, Heat, Celtics, and Raptors? 

This is a team that has no other offense other than throwing up a ton of 3s and Giannis bullying his way into the paint. That's a pretty good recipe, but that's not a good offense. Read the Bucks blogs. They all know it.

And one of my main arguments is that the Bucks' defense is not good. Their team is one of the oldest and slowest in the league.

Agree with you. The East looks deeper than we all projected at start of season.  Philly still seems a cut above, at the moment. But Boston, Heat and Raptors should now be put in the same category with the Bucks in the next tier.

This could all change after 10 games, but is how it feels this morning. 

Plus Philly looked very vulnerable vs the Hawks.  And we shot horribly against them on open looks.  I think Brad is a much better coach than Brown and any talent differential on the court can be off set by better coaching.

Would be awesome to see an Eastern Conf Finals between Sixers and Celtics. I'd sign up for that today.

Philly has no perimeter shooting and no depth. Their warts will be exposed at some point.

[Sophomore]

... and they know it.

This is something I've thought for a while now, but there is a serious problem with their roster construction.

Almost every player that plays rotation minutes for them is among the slowest in the league: Middleton, Illyasova, Lopez, Lopez, Matthews, Korver, and Hill. Giannis is obviously amazing, but Bledsoe is very inconsistent, especially in big games. That just leaves players like Pat, Brown, Wilson, and Bender.

All that means that they are forced to shoot a lot of jumpshots and they really struggle to defend. Against quick teams like the Cs, they are hoping they can lure ball-handlers into no-man's land and get swallowed up by the Lopez brothers at the rim. The problem is that if the opposing team is able/willing to move the ball, it gets everyone out of position and a step slow.

Come playoff time, this team will struggle to defend and will struggle to hit their shots without another player to stir their offense.

It's not like the team has a lot of upside either. It will just get worse next year. Another year older. Another year slower. Without any youth to help Giannis.

The only concern I have as a Celtic fan is if the Bucks make a trade for Chris Paul. They would be a much tougher out this year, but they would also get older and their window would get smaller. The Bucks actually don't have many trade packages that could work. A crazy 4-1 or 5-1 with Bledsoe and Hill as the core pieces would get it close. The other option is to trade Middleton.

I really think we might be seeing the beginning of the end of Giannis in Milwaukee.

Excellent summary. And now everybody knows exactly what they want to do on offense. If you can send multiple defenders at Giannis, his game is predictable enough to at least keep him from going supernova. They still have enough to be a good team, but not a champion.

[Rikibellevie]

They're still a top 2-3 team in the East.  It took a stellar comeback plus some cold shooting by them last night to get the Celtics the win. 

Certainly wouldn't write off that team.

No one is writing off anyone. Read the original post please.

I'm not sure they are a top 2-3 team in the East. They were last year, but the year before they were like the 7-8th seed. Maybe last year was the anomaly. Are we absolutely confident they are better than the Sixers, Heat, Celtics, and Raptors? 

This is a team that has no other offense other than throwing up a ton of 3s and Giannis bullying his way into the paint. That's a pretty good recipe, but that's not a good offense. Read the Bucks blogs. They all know it.

And one of my main arguments is that the Bucks' defense is not good. Their team is one of the oldest and slowest in the league.

Agree with you. The East looks deeper than we all projected at start of season.  Philly still seems a cut above, at the moment. But Boston, Heat and Raptors should now be put in the same category with the Bucks in the next tier.

This could all change after 10 games, but is how it feels this morning. 

Plus Philly looked very vulnerable vs the Hawks.  And we shot horribly against them on open looks.  I think Brad is a much better coach than Brown and any talent differential on the court can be off set by better coaching.

Would be awesome to see an Eastern Conf Finals between Sixers and Celtics. I'd sign up for that today.

Philly has no perimeter shooting and no depth. Their warts will be exposed at some point.

So much early seasons opinions that people take as facts…

_ Fact 1 The bucks are in trouble because they had two very bad half times. They Don't have any depth but they just lost Brogdon for a bunch of rotations experimenced guys. Last year ost of people agreed that it was also a part of role players especially the spacing and spot upshooters if they finished first in the NBA. They sucked so hard on three yesterday, Marcus had a great offensive game as a big X factor and we beat them by late in the game

_ Fact 2 Philly is not that much better than us … Hum hum. They have some experience about underperfor this two last years. But it really ay be there year on the east. Maybe Embid is too imature (ok probably), Simons has maybe limitations, they probably  won't be a good team on 3. But on paper they still have ore talent on their 5 and ay hurt Inside...

_ Fact 3 We should think about opening the arket for tatum trade ?! He realy look on trying to make a big step on his agressivity. His game is pure, he can do ost things on basket and has no big weakness. A natural all the way scorer, pretty to Watch, a strong kid and a good mindset. Good chemistry with Boston city and tea spirit. And we must trade him ? At 21 ?

_ Fact 4 G Williams is our Draylond. Maybe and maybe he will be a bust.  At this stage we Don't know. I like his entering ind and game on the NBA, he may be a good rotational player but we can talk about that as many are doing, trying to catch a good punchline…


The only thing we should do to me is looking at the evolution and intégrations of our and other players, feel the begining of chemistry of the teams, enjoy the games performance, dream a little … But not overeacting in a instant as one post on two  is about. It's loosing quality of arguing even if we are here for fun.

[Who]

Yeah, the minute the let Brogdon leave it felt like it was the beginning of the end for Giannis in Milwaukee.

They couldn't afford to lose Brogdon. Not when you have only one genuine star (Giannis) on the team. Not when you have so few opportunities to improve via cap space, draft picks or trades. Not when you desperately needed that quality (Brogdon) to provide the necessary balance to win in a one star system.

[Who]

I thought those small lineups with Ilyasova at center (next to Giannis or Mirotic) where key to their team speed last year.

They had a big slow lineup with Brook Lopez for 28mpg for when they needed bulk in the paint but then there second lineup (20mpg) had lots of team speed for upping the pace and matching up against quicker teams.

This season they still have the 28-29mpg for Brook Lopez but that 15mpg for Robin Lopez means they are now big and slow for 44 minutes a game. That leaves only 4 minutes for quicker lineups.

[Sideshow Mel]

Giannis and Middleton is a tough combination, but I love seeing the Lopez brothers jack up 8 threes a game. That kind of shot selection takes a lot of the starch out of the Bucks’ offense. Keep letting it fly fellas! 
Terrific win last night.

[Who]

They're still a top 2-3 team in the East.  It took a stellar comeback plus some cold shooting by them last night to get the Celtics the win. 

Certainly wouldn't write off that team.

No one is writing off anyone. Read the original post please.

I'm not sure they are a top 2-3 team in the East. They were last year, but the year before they were like the 7-8th seed. Maybe last year was the anomaly. Are we absolutely confident they are better than the Sixers, Heat, Celtics, and Raptors? 

This is a team that has no other offense other than throwing up a ton of 3s and Giannis bullying his way into the paint. That's a pretty good recipe, but that's not a good offense. Read the Bucks blogs. They all know it.

And one of my main arguments is that the Bucks' defense is not good. Their team is one of the oldest and slowest in the league.

I still expect Milwaukee to be the #1 seed in the East.

They are weaker this year without Brogdon but the East is weak at the top of the conference. They have good teams = 45-52 win type teams. They do not have high win total teams. That is where I see teams like Boston, Miami and Toronto.

Philly are the best bet to buck that but I still expect them to be a disappointing regular season team with lots of inconsistency (again, a 50-52 win type team) before rising to the top of the pile in the playoffs due their size, matchup problems and individual talent.

Milwaukee should finish #1 in the East due to the lack of competition in the East. I do not like them in the playoffs though. I think they'll suffer again. This time to Philly. And Giannis will be one step closer to being out that door ...

[gpap]

I don't believe the Bucks are in trouble.

The playoffs are a totally different animal.

I think we're still a player or two away from eliminating Milwaukee in a 7 game series.

Don't forget we also beat the Bucks early in the season last year as well. Not trying to take away from last night's win, but just saying.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I don't believe the Bucks are in trouble.

The playoffs are a totally different animal.

I think we're still a player or two away from eliminating Milwaukee in a 7 game series.

Don't forget we also beat the Bucks early in the season last year as well. Not trying to take away from last night's win, but just saying.

Don't forget we beat the Bucks the playoffs before last year.

My argument is that last year was the anomaly, not the norm, for this team.

[GreenFaith1819]

Bucks are certainly not in trouble. I still think they are contenders.

BUT - As Stephen A so illustrated last night - The Boston Celtics are NOT to be slept on.

Last night showed to me and my son what happens when you build a wall against Giannis....we defended him well for ONE GAME in that series last season...ONE GAME...the first one, that we took in MIL. Then - for some unknown crazy reason - our team imploded and stopped caring...

All that in now water under the bridge. Kyrie's team is struggling a bit in BKN but BOS FINALLY seems to have the right chemistry in place to do some serious damage.

Chemistry can take a team a LONNGGGGG WAY.....we've been missing this since 2017-18. Seems like we have it back now and I LOVE it.

[gpap]

I don't believe the Bucks are in trouble.

The playoffs are a totally different animal.

I think we're still a player or two away from eliminating Milwaukee in a 7 game series.

Don't forget we also beat the Bucks early in the season last year as well. Not trying to take away from last night's win, but just saying.

Don't forget we beat the Bucks the playoffs before last year.

My argument is that last year was the anomaly, not the norm, for this team.

Not sure how you come to that conclusion. Giannis is better and stronger and the Bucks have a deeper roster with more size and a better coach from 2 years ago.

Granted, we were a dysfunctional bunch last year in the playoffs and it clearly showed. No doubt, the Bucks can be beat. But to beat them, the Celts are going to have to play them tough, REAL tough!

If you're physically aggressive enough with them, they'll start to back down. The Celts should definitely take stock of what they did last night. When they tightened up the defense, stopped with the threes and were moving the ball, they played much better.

EDIT - And, we need another big man to contend with Milwaukee and Philly.

[ETNCeltics]

Giannis is phenomenal and has enough shooters around him to make them a real contender.

Their size doesn't scare me, their bigs are jags. We can contend with everything they throw at us, other than Giannis having a huge night.

Philly is another matter. Embiid is elite and over the course of a 7 game series, I don't see an answer for him. I think that we can do a creditable job defensively with the rest of their lineup, but with him, it's more hoping he plays poorly.

IMO, if we'd been able to re-sign Al, we'd be the EC favorites. But it is what it is, Al is gone, and he'll likely be the glue that holds that team together. Without him, I don't think all their parts fit together very well.

[Evantime34]

I agree with the OP about the defense. Last year they were stifling and that helped them win as many games as they did. If what we saw last night was indicative of their defense the rest of the year they are not the best team in the east like I thought going into the season.

[ETNCeltics]

I agree with the OP about the defense. Last year they were stifling and that helped them win as many games as they did. If what we saw last night was indicative of their defense the rest of the year they are not the best team in the east like I thought going into the season.

They weren't really stifling last year, either. They were just pretty good on D, apart from their shot blocking.

They were successful because they were the highest scoring team in the league. But they've lost their 2nd best all around offensive player from last year's team, and adding a few jag veterans doesn't replace him. I think losing Brogdon is going to turn out to be a bigger deal than it was played up through the offseason.