Author Topic: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions  (Read 450102 times)

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #90 on: July 25, 2007, 10:52:15 AM »

Offline WillyBeamin

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who is launching personal insult? this is a discussion/debate just like any we would have on the celtics (this should be in off topic.. I can't do anything about this).

and no, as I have posted several times, that is not a true statement.

"The new law won't make it a crime to play poker online; instead it blocks banks from processing gambling winnings – which is why players are now cashing in their virtual chips. "

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/13/politics/main2087917.shtml

this is what I have maintained all along.
Take it to the hole, there's a dance involved

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #91 on: July 25, 2007, 10:55:53 AM »

Offline dark_lord

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just let it go and move on!  this thread probably should have been locked as soon as it was created.  it was combative in design from the get go and challenging to the mod. 

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #92 on: July 25, 2007, 10:58:27 AM »

Offline Edgar

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just let it go and move on!  this thread probably should have been locked as soon as it was created.  it was combative in design from the get go and challenging to the mod. 
The first message was out of context
but then it became a very interesting debate
And...
u have to give the lawyer the chance to make his case  ;)
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #93 on: July 25, 2007, 11:00:11 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Sigh... 

Did you read the articles I cited to?  First, there are multiple Federal statutes that the government says applies here, rather than just the one you keep citing to.  Secondly, you are trusting the word of whoever wrote that article -- presumably a reporter -- over the United States Department of Justice. 

This isn't really a debate, Willy.  This is you being stubborn, and refusing to admit what I clearly cited to:  the US government has declared online poker to be illegal.  That's good enough for the blog.  You're wrong, and I'm not participating in this "debate" any further.  You can debate online poker all you want, and I'm not even taking a position on whether it *should* be legal or not.  However, the United States government doesn't think that it is, and that's really all there is to say.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #94 on: July 25, 2007, 11:04:36 AM »

Offline blake

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You have to understand where Hobbs is coming from.  CB is a just a blog and doesn't have an attorney on staff.  So CB has to do their best to govern from their given resources.  CB sees it as something that could be iffy and would not like to jeopardize all of the hard work up to this point for one thread about poker.  Not that anything would ever materialize, but things have a way of snowballing (AI trade rumors).  So let's agree to disagree and talk about something else.  

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #95 on: July 25, 2007, 11:06:11 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Quote
The US Department of Justice has consistently maintained that online gambling is illegal. In a letter to US broadcast organisations dated 11 June 2003, John G.Malcolm, the Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division, of the United States Department of Justice wrote;

"Notwithstanding their frequent claims of legitimacy, Internet gambling and offshore sportsbook operations that accept bets from customers in the United States violate Sections 1084, 1952, and 1955 of 18 of the United States Code, each of which is a Class E felony. Additionally, pursuant to Title 18. United States Code. Section 2, any person Or entity who aids or abets in the commission of any of the above-listed offenses is punishable as a principal violator of those statutes. The Department of Justice is responsible for enforcing these statutes and we reserve the right to prosecute violators of the law."

Quote
Supporters of making North Dakota the first U.S. home for Internet poker sites face a difficult hurdle -- the federal Justice Department believes the idea is illegal.

In letters to Nevada and the U.S. Virgin Islands, Justice Department attorneys have said they believe Internet gambling runs afoul of federal laws against using wire communications to place bets.

Quote
"There is no doubt that both the Clinton and Bush administrations take the position that online poker is illegal," Shulman said.


All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #96 on: July 25, 2007, 11:06:59 AM »

Offline cavman

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This is Celticsblog, not pokerblog.

I know it is summer and we are bored and looking for topics, but please.... wrangling this long over you're 'right' to talk about this.  Celticsblog is a voluntary society.  They can prohibit such talk all they want.  And... that's cool w/me.
"The most important thing is the ability to communicate.  It's not how much you know.  It's how you communicate what you know."  Red

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #97 on: July 25, 2007, 11:09:15 AM »

Offline Edgar

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You have to understand where Hobbs is coming from. CB is a just a blog and doesn't have an attorney on staff.  So CB has to do their best to govern from their given resources.  CB sees it as something that could be iffy and would not like to jeopardize all of the hard work up to this point for one thread about poker.  Not that anything would ever materialize, but things have a way of snowballing (AI trade rumors).  So let's agree to disagree and talk about something else.  
I would LOVE to see Roy´s face in here
 ;D
Now... When I say Debate i mean Conversation. ( only semantics Roy)

Now moving on.... :) Theres a blog out there, lets join.
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #98 on: July 25, 2007, 11:13:01 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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You have to understand where Hobbs is coming from. CB is a just a blog and doesn't have an attorney on staff.  So CB has to do their best to govern from their given resources.  CB sees it as something that could be iffy and would not like to jeopardize all of the hard work up to this point for one thread about poker.  Not that anything would ever materialize, but things have a way of snowballing (AI trade rumors).  So let's agree to disagree and talk about something else. 
I would LOVE to see Roy´s face in here
 ;D

Lol.  I think what blake meant is that we don't have an attorney on *retainer*.  If Jeff wants to send me a healthy check to cover my fees, I can research the issue and give him an official Celticsblog position as to the propriety of online gambling, specifically as related to poker.  Until such time, I'm going to let the Department of Justice do the talking. ;)

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #99 on: July 25, 2007, 11:15:24 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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You have to understand where Hobbs is coming from. CB is a just a blog and doesn't have an attorney on staff.  So CB has to do their best to govern from their given resources.  CB sees it as something that could be iffy and would not like to jeopardize all of the hard work up to this point for one thread about poker.  Not that anything would ever materialize, but things have a way of snowballing (AI trade rumors).  So let's agree to disagree and talk about something else. 
I would LOVE to see Roy´s face in here
 ;D

Lol.  I think what blake meant is that we don't have an attorney on *retainer*.  If Jeff wants to send me a healthy check to cover my fees, I can research the issue and give him an official Celticsblog position as to the propriety of online gambling, specifically as related to poker.  Until such time, I'm going to let the Department of Justice do the talking. ;)


Does a healthy does of 'Tommy Points' work?

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #100 on: July 25, 2007, 11:17:00 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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You have to understand where Hobbs is coming from. CB is a just a blog and doesn't have an attorney on staff.  So CB has to do their best to govern from their given resources.  CB sees it as something that could be iffy and would not like to jeopardize all of the hard work up to this point for one thread about poker.  Not that anything would ever materialize, but things have a way of snowballing (AI trade rumors).  So let's agree to disagree and talk about something else. 
I would LOVE to see Roy´s face in here
 ;D

Lol.  I think what blake meant is that we don't have an attorney on *retainer*.  If Jeff wants to send me a healthy check to cover my fees, I can research the issue and give him an official Celticsblog position as to the propriety of online gambling, specifically as related to poker.  Until such time, I'm going to let the Department of Justice do the talking. ;)


Does a healthy does of 'Tommy Points' work?

Hey, if Jeff implements the "Tommy Points for free stuff" suggestion, they might.  I have my eyes set on the Celticsblog Ferrari. 

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #101 on: July 25, 2007, 11:19:02 AM »

Offline dark_lord

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Hey, if Jeff implements the "Tommy Points for free stuff" suggestion, they might.  I have my eyes set on the Celticsblog Ferrari. 

i got shotgun first, since it was my idea..lol ;D

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #102 on: July 25, 2007, 11:28:28 AM »

Offline WillyBeamin

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Sigh... 

Did you read the articles I cited to?  First, there are multiple Federal statutes that the government says applies here, rather than just the one you keep citing to.  Secondly, you are trusting the word of whoever wrote that article -- presumably a reporter -- over the United States Department of Justice. 

This isn't really a debate, Willy.  This is you being stubborn, and refusing to admit what I clearly cited to:  the US government has declared online poker to be illegal.  That's good enough for the blog.  You're wrong, and I'm not participating in this "debate" any further.  You can debate online poker all you want, and I'm not even taking a position on whether it *should* be legal or not.  However, the United States government doesn't think that it is, and that's really all there is to say.

The US government has never officially stated that playing online poker is illegal. "it is the position of the bush administration" is far from legal precedence. All the statutes to which you refer address online gambling, primarily sportsbooks and casinos. There is no official ruling from any court on any level which states that poker is grouped into this.

The one statute that does address online poker, is the one I keep bringing up, which never states that it is ILLEGAL to play online poker. it just addresses the funding of online poker.

and who is the one launching personal attacks again? I have maintained a simple point all along, and have just been talked down to.

i'm going to lunch, I hope this is locked by the time I get back lol.
Take it to the hole, there's a dance involved

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #103 on: July 25, 2007, 11:28:47 AM »

Offline dobbs

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Quote
give him an official Celticsblog position as to the propriety of online gambling, specifically as related to poker.

As luck would have it, you already have that person, and he is me.  ;)

I think that part of the furor over this topic was merely in the choice of words used to communicate between the two parties, to begin with.  The UIGEA does not specifically state that online poker is illegal.  So a blanket statement of "online poker is illegal" is incorrect.  You can still play poker on the Internet for free, and it is perfectly legal to do so.

Now, when there's money involved, it gets dicey...

There are many many layers of interpretation of the UIGEA, but what it boils down to is this:  the law was designed primarily to criminalize the transfer of money between players and gambling sites and to criminalize those that make it their business [the gambling sites] to accept wagers on "games of chance".  Whether you believe poker is a game of chance or not is another point of debate -- suffice it to say that most poker players (such as myself) believe it is a game of skill.  That's another matter for another post.

The law does not propose to criminalize and prosecute individual gamblers.  This would be a futile effort; a totally unenforceable enterprise.  I think this is what many people are referring to when they say that "online poker is not illegal". 

How does it relate to Celticsblog?  It's not a question of legality, as there are plenty of forums on the Internet that are solely dedicated to the discussion of poker.  Discussion of poker is not illegal.  Celticsblog will never be prosecuted for allowing members to discuss poker or any form of gambling in an online forum.  It's merely a matter of preference; if the moderators and administrators don't want a particular type of content discussed, then it is fully within their right to disallow that type of content.  Do I agree with the decision of the blog to forbid any type of discussion of poker?  Personally, no, I do not.  But I respect and fully support the rules and wishes of those that run this site and abide by their desire to keep that type of content off of the blog, and so should you. 

Besides, there are plenty of other places that you can go to engage in meaningful (and I daresay more accurate and valuable advice) discussion of poker than a basketball team blog.


Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #104 on: July 25, 2007, 11:33:44 AM »

Offline WillyBeamin

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It's merely a matter of preference; if the moderators and administrators don't want a particular type of content discussed, then it is fully within their right to disallow that type of content.  Do I agree with the decision of the blog to forbid any type of discussion of poker?  Personally, no, I do not.  But I respect and fully support the rules and wishes of those that run this site and abide by their desire to keep that type of content off of the blog, and so should you. 

I whole heartedly agree, this is not my blog, I do no work to maintain it, so if they don't want something like this discussed, that is their choice. My original post was to contest the point hobbs had made that it is illegal for an individual to play online poker in the United States.
Take it to the hole, there's a dance involved