NBA 2019-2020 season thread

[Fafnir]

I mean that's not true? I don't know what to discuss with you when you just misrepresent what he does as a coach.

[Fierce1]

I mean that's not true? I don't know what to discuss with you when you just misrepresent what he does as a coach.

You can check for yourself.

Look at the teams D'Antoni coached in the past.
His teams always gave up 100 points per game.

It's only recently that all 30 NBA teams are averaging 100 points per game.

Before 2018, not all teams averaged 100 points per game.

In fact, averaging 100 points per game was hard to do in the past.

But D'Antoni's teams always gave up a 100 points per game.
That's just poor defense.

You can check for yourself.

[keevsnick]

I mean all of what you said just isn't true? You do realize the entire league plays faster and smaller than the Suns did back then? That GSW won multiple titles playing faster and smaller than the Suns? The Heat did the same?

The GSW dynasty always played elite defense.

Same with Miami and Lebron, they always played great on defense.

Look at D'Antoni's teams from the Suns, to NY, to the Lakers, and to Houston, his teams always gives up a lot of points.

D'Antoni's philosophy is similar to that of Paul Westhead.
That philosophy is your defense is outscoring your opponent.
It just doesn't work!

Houston was sixth in defense rating 17-18 when they were a Chris Paul hamstring away from winning it all.

[footey]

Kings beat Rockets with last second 3 by Bialicza. Wow.

Got upset by SAC then got denied by the NBA on their appeal.

D'Antoni will never win a championship.

His system is not suited for the playoffs.

I don't know.  If he was running that system with Durant and Curry instead of Harden and Paul, you might have a different outlook.  His system is definitely more prone to upsets given its heavy reliance on the 3 point shot, but I think their lack of winning is much more on the players in the system, then the system itself.  I mean it isn't like Harden or Paul had any real success before D'Antoni.  In fact, they were both known as playoff chokers (especially Paul) before ever stepping foot in D'Antoni's system.

GSW won 1 championship, should have one another one (2016 when Draymond got suspended) and nearly won another last year (when they embarrassed the Dantoni Rockets), all without Durant, so to suggest that their playoff success was predicated on a tandem of Durant and Steph Curry is inaccurate and misleading.  MD has yet to take a team to the NBA finals. After coaching how many years in the NBA?

As Fierce1 points out, Mike D'Antoni is a flawed coach because he is indifferent to the defensive side of the ball.  The Warriors played both sides of the ball.

[Fierce1]

I mean all of what you said just isn't true? You do realize the entire league plays faster and smaller than the Suns did back then? That GSW won multiple titles playing faster and smaller than the Suns? The Heat did the same?

The GSW dynasty always played elite defense.

Same with Miami and Lebron, they always played great on defense.

Look at D'Antoni's teams from the Suns, to NY, to the Lakers, and to Houston, his teams always gives up a lot of points.

D'Antoni's philosophy is similar to that of Paul Westhead.
That philosophy is your defense is outscoring your opponent.
It just doesn't work!

Houston was sixth in defense rating 17-18 when they were a Chris Paul hamstring away from winning it all.

That was an anomaly.

The Rockets returned the following season, 18-19, with basically having the same team from 17-18, but the Rockets were not as good.

I mean D'Antoni even had Kobe, Dwight, Pau Gasol, and Steve Nash back in 2012-13 and that Laker team couldn't even win one game in the playoffs.

D'Antoni has coached a lot of MVP players, Nash, Kobe, and Harden.
But D'Antoni has never reached the Finals.
His system just doesn't work.

[keevsnick]

I mean all of what you said just isn't true? You do realize the entire league plays faster and smaller than the Suns did back then? That GSW won multiple titles playing faster and smaller than the Suns? The Heat did the same?

The GSW dynasty always played elite defense.

Same with Miami and Lebron, they always played great on defense.

Look at D'Antoni's teams from the Suns, to NY, to the Lakers, and to Houston, his teams always gives up a lot of points.

D'Antoni's philosophy is similar to that of Paul Westhead.
That philosophy is your defense is outscoring your opponent.
It just doesn't work!

Houston was sixth in defense rating 17-18 when they were a Chris Paul hamstring away from winning it all.

That was an anomaly.

The Rockets returned the following season, 18-19, with basically having the same team from 17-18, but the Rockets were not as good.

I mean D'Antoni even had Kobe, Dwight, Pau Gasol, and Steve Nash back in 2012-13 and that Laker team couldn't even win one game in the playoffs.

D'Antoni has coached a lot of MVP players, Nash, Kobe, and Harden.
But D'Antoni has never reached the Finals.
His system just doesn't work.

Well clearly it can, because it did. They came closer than anybody to beating a heathy GSW team.  You used the word "always," and as I have demonstrated that is incorrect.

[Moranis]

Kings beat Rockets with last second 3 by Bialicza. Wow.

Got upset by SAC then got denied by the NBA on their appeal.

D'Antoni will never win a championship.

His system is not suited for the playoffs.

I don't know.  If he was running that system with Durant and Curry instead of Harden and Paul, you might have a different outlook.  His system is definitely more prone to upsets given its heavy reliance on the 3 point shot, but I think their lack of winning is much more on the players in the system, then the system itself.  I mean it isn't like Harden or Paul had any real success before D'Antoni.  In fact, they were both known as playoff chokers (especially Paul) before ever stepping foot in D'Antoni's system.

GSW won 1 championship, should have one another one (2016 when Draymond got suspended) and nearly won another last year (when they embarrassed the Dantoni Rockets), all without Durant, so to suggest that their playoff success was predicated on a tandem of Durant and Steph Curry is inaccurate and misleading.  MD has yet to take a team to the NBA finals. After coaching how many years in the NBA?

As Fierce1 points out, Mike D'Antoni is a flawed coach because he is indifferent to the defensive side of the ball.  The Warriors played both sides of the ball.

That isn't what I was doing at all.  I was saying that if D'Antoni had different players in his system, his system might work great.  I used Durant and Curry, because they are 2 of the greatest shooters in history and D'Antoni's offensive system is predicated in a large part on great outside shooting (they were also a PG and a wing, which fits with the Harden/Paul grouping). 

[Donoghus]

I mean all of what you said just isn't true? You do realize the entire league plays faster and smaller than the Suns did back then? That GSW won multiple titles playing faster and smaller than the Suns? The Heat did the same?

The GSW dynasty always played elite defense.

Same with Miami and Lebron, they always played great on defense.

Look at D'Antoni's teams from the Suns, to NY, to the Lakers, and to Houston, his teams always gives up a lot of points.

D'Antoni's philosophy is similar to that of Paul Westhead.
That philosophy is your defense is outscoring your opponent.
It just doesn't work!

Houston was sixth in defense rating 17-18 when they were a Chris Paul hamstring away from winning it all.

That was an anomaly.

The Rockets returned the following season, 18-19, with basically having the same team from 17-18, but the Rockets were not as good.

I mean D'Antoni even had Kobe, Dwight, Pau Gasol, and Steve Nash back in 2012-13 and that Laker team couldn't even win one game in the playoffs.

D'Antoni has coached a lot of MVP players, Nash, Kobe, and Harden.
But D'Antoni has never reached the Finals.
His system just doesn't work.

Well clearly it can, because it did. They came closer than anybody to beating a heathy GSW team.  You used the word "always," and as I have demonstrated that is incorrect.

The shame is if Amare & Boris don't step on the court, they probably have a title and this lazy narrative is put to rest.

[Moranis]

I mean all of what you said just isn't true? You do realize the entire league plays faster and smaller than the Suns did back then? That GSW won multiple titles playing faster and smaller than the Suns? The Heat did the same?

The GSW dynasty always played elite defense.

Same with Miami and Lebron, they always played great on defense.

Look at D'Antoni's teams from the Suns, to NY, to the Lakers, and to Houston, his teams always gives up a lot of points.

D'Antoni's philosophy is similar to that of Paul Westhead.
That philosophy is your defense is outscoring your opponent.
It just doesn't work!

Houston was sixth in defense rating 17-18 when they were a Chris Paul hamstring away from winning it all.

That was an anomaly.

The Rockets returned the following season, 18-19, with basically having the same team from 17-18, but the Rockets were not as good.

I mean D'Antoni even had Kobe, Dwight, Pau Gasol, and Steve Nash back in 2012-13 and that Laker team couldn't even win one game in the playoffs.

D'Antoni has coached a lot of MVP players, Nash, Kobe, and Harden.
But D'Antoni has never reached the Finals.
His system just doesn't work.

Apparently you forgot that the 12-13 Lakers may have had Kobe for most of the regular season, but he didn't play at all in the playoffs.  Nash also was injured and only played in 2 playoff games.  So that playoff roster was 32 year old Pau Gasol, Dwight, and the other 16 starts were 2 to Nash, 2 to Darius Morris, 3 to 33 year old Metta World Peace, 1 to Earl Clark, 2 to Andrew Goudelock, and 2 to Steve Blake.  They played the Spurs who lost in the NBA Finals to the Heat in 7 games.  D'Antoni also took that team over during the season so he didn't have an offseason, a preseason, etc. to properly implement his system. 

The next season, Kobe played 6 games, Nash played in 15, and Pau played in 60.  The rest of the team was a collection of mish mashed players that were in roles they shouldn't have been in. 

D'Antoni's Lakers stint, quite simply, isn't a fair representation of his coaching ability at all and the fact that you would bring it up without doing even simple research pretty much lends no credence at all to anything you are saying.

[bdm860]

I mean all of what you said just isn't true? You do realize the entire league plays faster and smaller than the Suns did back then? That GSW won multiple titles playing faster and smaller than the Suns? The Heat did the same?

The GSW dynasty always played elite defense.

Same with Miami and Lebron, they always played great on defense.

Look at D'Antoni's teams from the Suns, to NY, to the Lakers, and to Houston, his teams always gives up a lot of points.

D'Antoni's philosophy is similar to that of Paul Westhead.
That philosophy is your defense is outscoring your opponent.
It just doesn't work!

Houston was sixth in defense rating 17-18 when they were a Chris Paul hamstring away from winning it all.

That was an anomaly.

The Rockets returned the following season, 18-19, with basically having the same team from 17-18, but the Rockets were not as good.

I mean D'Antoni even had Kobe, Dwight, Pau Gasol, and Steve Nash back in 2012-13 and that Laker team couldn't even win one game in the playoffs.

D'Antoni has coached a lot of MVP players, Nash, Kobe, and Harden.
But D'Antoni has never reached the Finals.
His system just doesn't work.

Well clearly it can, because it did. They came closer than anybody to beating a heathy GSW team.  You used the word "always," and as I have demonstrated that is incorrect.

The shame is if Amare & Boris don't step on the court, they probably have a title and this lazy narrative is put to rest.

Eh, that's a stretch.  The Suns were 2-3 in the playoffs vs the Spurs when Amare was there, and were 1-2 in the regular season (though only had 1 home game that year, which they won).

The Suns actually lost by more when Amare was there (losing by 5, 7, and 8 ) vs when he was out (3).  Maybe it was the Amare suspension that motivated the Suns so much to keep it so close in Game 5?  Of course Suns also won by 20 and 6 with Amare, just saying I think people put too much weight on that 3 point loss without Amare.  Hard to bet against the Spurs though, especially in hindsight, knowing how they thrived in the playoffs for so many years.  So I've never quite bought that the Suns would have won if not for that suspension.

And while everyone thinks the Suns would beat the Jazz in the WCF, the Jazz were 3-1 vs the Suns that year (though one game was when Amare was coming off the bench early in the year and only played 16 mins as he was working his way back from a major injury, another was without Nash, both in November).  Plus we just saw the 67 win Mavs got knocked out in the first round, showing you can't assume the best team wins.

Suns definitely had a chance at a championship though, just don't think I'd say "probably."

But then again, Tim Donaghy reffed one of the Suns losses (Game 3, 108-101), and says the series was rigged against the Suns, so who knows.

[Donoghus]

I mean all of what you said just isn't true? You do realize the entire league plays faster and smaller than the Suns did back then? That GSW won multiple titles playing faster and smaller than the Suns? The Heat did the same?

The GSW dynasty always played elite defense.

Same with Miami and Lebron, they always played great on defense.

Look at D'Antoni's teams from the Suns, to NY, to the Lakers, and to Houston, his teams always gives up a lot of points.

D'Antoni's philosophy is similar to that of Paul Westhead.
That philosophy is your defense is outscoring your opponent.
It just doesn't work!

Houston was sixth in defense rating 17-18 when they were a Chris Paul hamstring away from winning it all.

That was an anomaly.

The Rockets returned the following season, 18-19, with basically having the same team from 17-18, but the Rockets were not as good.

I mean D'Antoni even had Kobe, Dwight, Pau Gasol, and Steve Nash back in 2012-13 and that Laker team couldn't even win one game in the playoffs.

D'Antoni has coached a lot of MVP players, Nash, Kobe, and Harden.
But D'Antoni has never reached the Finals.
His system just doesn't work.

Well clearly it can, because it did. They came closer than anybody to beating a heathy GSW team.  You used the word "always," and as I have demonstrated that is incorrect.

The shame is if Amare & Boris don't step on the court, they probably have a title and this lazy narrative is put to rest.

Eh, that's a stretch.  The Suns were 2-3 in the playoffs vs the Spurs when Amare was there, and were 1-2 in the regular season (though only had 1 home game that year, which they won).

The Suns actually lost by more when Amare was there (losing by 5, 7, and 8 ) vs when he was out (3).  Maybe it was the Amare suspension that motivated the Suns so much to keep it so close in Game 5?  Of course Suns also won by 20 and 6 with Amare, just saying I think people put too much weight on that 3 point loss without Amare.  Hard to bet against the Spurs though, especially in hindsight, knowing how they thrived in the playoffs for so many years.  So I've never quite bought that the Suns would have won if not for that suspension.

And while everyone thinks the Suns would beat the Jazz in the WCF, the Jazz were 3-1 vs the Suns that year (though one game was when Amare was coming off the bench early in the year and only played 16 mins as he was working his way back from a major injury, another was without Nash, both in November).  Plus we just saw the 67 win Mavs got knocked out in the first round, showing you can't assume the best team wins.

Suns definitely had a chance at a championship though, just don't think I'd say "probably."

But then again, Tim Donaghy reffed one of the Suns losses (Game 3, 108-101), and says the series was rigged against the Suns, so who knows.

So its a semantics thing with word "probably".  Got it.

Whoever was coming out of the West that year was winning the title, IMO.   (Phoenix won the reg season series with CLE 2-0 and both wins were by double digits).  Phoenix choked a game away at home in Game 5 that I think plays out a different way if Amare & Diaw are there.   Wouldn't be shocking that they still lose Game 6 in SA but Game 7 is back in Phoenix so it certainly wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility that they take care of business at home and take the series.   The Utah series, has PHX with home-court and, IMO, the Suns were the better team that year and I think it would've shown in a playoff series.  I'm pretty much discounting those two November games where Amare wasn't the Amare that showed up as the season progressed but I'll give you the Feb matchup of being more indicative of how a possible WCF could've played out.  I still think PHX takes it.

Personally, I don't think its much of a stretch at all but, to each, their own.

[bdm860]

I mean all of what you said just isn't true? You do realize the entire league plays faster and smaller than the Suns did back then? That GSW won multiple titles playing faster and smaller than the Suns? The Heat did the same?

The GSW dynasty always played elite defense.

Same with Miami and Lebron, they always played great on defense.

Look at D'Antoni's teams from the Suns, to NY, to the Lakers, and to Houston, his teams always gives up a lot of points.

D'Antoni's philosophy is similar to that of Paul Westhead.
That philosophy is your defense is outscoring your opponent.
It just doesn't work!

Houston was sixth in defense rating 17-18 when they were a Chris Paul hamstring away from winning it all.

That was an anomaly.

The Rockets returned the following season, 18-19, with basically having the same team from 17-18, but the Rockets were not as good.

I mean D'Antoni even had Kobe, Dwight, Pau Gasol, and Steve Nash back in 2012-13 and that Laker team couldn't even win one game in the playoffs.

D'Antoni has coached a lot of MVP players, Nash, Kobe, and Harden.
But D'Antoni has never reached the Finals.
His system just doesn't work.

Well clearly it can, because it did. They came closer than anybody to beating a heathy GSW team.  You used the word "always," and as I have demonstrated that is incorrect.

The shame is if Amare & Boris don't step on the court, they probably have a title and this lazy narrative is put to rest.

Eh, that's a stretch.  The Suns were 2-3 in the playoffs vs the Spurs when Amare was there, and were 1-2 in the regular season (though only had 1 home game that year, which they won).

The Suns actually lost by more when Amare was there (losing by 5, 7, and 8 ) vs when he was out (3).  Maybe it was the Amare suspension that motivated the Suns so much to keep it so close in Game 5?  Of course Suns also won by 20 and 6 with Amare, just saying I think people put too much weight on that 3 point loss without Amare.  Hard to bet against the Spurs though, especially in hindsight, knowing how they thrived in the playoffs for so many years.  So I've never quite bought that the Suns would have won if not for that suspension.

And while everyone thinks the Suns would beat the Jazz in the WCF, the Jazz were 3-1 vs the Suns that year (though one game was when Amare was coming off the bench early in the year and only played 16 mins as he was working his way back from a major injury, another was without Nash, both in November).  Plus we just saw the 67 win Mavs got knocked out in the first round, showing you can't assume the best team wins.

Suns definitely had a chance at a championship though, just don't think I'd say "probably."

But then again, Tim Donaghy reffed one of the Suns losses (Game 3, 108-101), and says the series was rigged against the Suns, so who knows.

So its a semantics thing with word "probably".  Got it.

Whoever was coming out of the West that year was winning the title, IMO.   (Phoenix won the reg season series with CLE 2-0 and both wins were by double digits).  Phoenix choked a game away at home in Game 5 that I think plays out a different way if Amare & Diaw are there.   Wouldn't be shocking that they still lose Game 6 in SA but Game 7 is back in Phoenix so it certainly wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility that they take care of business at home and take the series.   The Utah series, has PHX with home-court and, IMO, the Suns were the better team that year and I think it would've shown in a playoff series.  I'm pretty much discounting those two November games where Amare wasn't the Amare that showed up as the season progressed but I'll give you the Feb matchup of being more indicative of how a possible WCF could've played out.  I still think PHX takes it.

Personally, I don't think its much of a stretch at all but, to each, their own.

Now explain how the Suns beat the Spurs.  You're talking about Jazz and Cavs, I'm with you there, the Suns  probably win, no doubt (Jazz would have been a great, close 6-7 game series though, IMO).  I'm mostly talking about the Spurs.

I think it's disrespectful to the Spurs to assume the Suns would have beat them (ha, I hate when people say "it's disrespectful").

What did the Suns do to show they could beat the Spurs with Amare?  They were 2-3 with Amare against the greatest coach (Pop) and greatest winner (Duncan) of that generation.

No Amare suspension, I think the Spurs still win.  That's my issue.  It's not semantics, it's that people seem to think Amare missing 1 game somehow cost the Suns 2 wins.  That math just doesn't add up.

[Moranis]

I mean all of what you said just isn't true? You do realize the entire league plays faster and smaller than the Suns did back then? That GSW won multiple titles playing faster and smaller than the Suns? The Heat did the same?

The GSW dynasty always played elite defense.

Same with Miami and Lebron, they always played great on defense.

Look at D'Antoni's teams from the Suns, to NY, to the Lakers, and to Houston, his teams always gives up a lot of points.

D'Antoni's philosophy is similar to that of Paul Westhead.
That philosophy is your defense is outscoring your opponent.
It just doesn't work!

Houston was sixth in defense rating 17-18 when they were a Chris Paul hamstring away from winning it all.

That was an anomaly.

The Rockets returned the following season, 18-19, with basically having the same team from 17-18, but the Rockets were not as good.

I mean D'Antoni even had Kobe, Dwight, Pau Gasol, and Steve Nash back in 2012-13 and that Laker team couldn't even win one game in the playoffs.

D'Antoni has coached a lot of MVP players, Nash, Kobe, and Harden.
But D'Antoni has never reached the Finals.
His system just doesn't work.

Well clearly it can, because it did. They came closer than anybody to beating a heathy GSW team.  You used the word "always," and as I have demonstrated that is incorrect.

The shame is if Amare & Boris don't step on the court, they probably have a title and this lazy narrative is put to rest.

Eh, that's a stretch.  The Suns were 2-3 in the playoffs vs the Spurs when Amare was there, and were 1-2 in the regular season (though only had 1 home game that year, which they won).

The Suns actually lost by more when Amare was there (losing by 5, 7, and 8 ) vs when he was out (3).  Maybe it was the Amare suspension that motivated the Suns so much to keep it so close in Game 5?  Of course Suns also won by 20 and 6 with Amare, just saying I think people put too much weight on that 3 point loss without Amare.  Hard to bet against the Spurs though, especially in hindsight, knowing how they thrived in the playoffs for so many years.  So I've never quite bought that the Suns would have won if not for that suspension.

And while everyone thinks the Suns would beat the Jazz in the WCF, the Jazz were 3-1 vs the Suns that year (though one game was when Amare was coming off the bench early in the year and only played 16 mins as he was working his way back from a major injury, another was without Nash, both in November).  Plus we just saw the 67 win Mavs got knocked out in the first round, showing you can't assume the best team wins.

Suns definitely had a chance at a championship though, just don't think I'd say "probably."

But then again, Tim Donaghy reffed one of the Suns losses (Game 3, 108-101), and says the series was rigged against the Suns, so who knows.

So its a semantics thing with word "probably".  Got it.

Whoever was coming out of the West that year was winning the title, IMO.   (Phoenix won the reg season series with CLE 2-0 and both wins were by double digits).  Phoenix choked a game away at home in Game 5 that I think plays out a different way if Amare & Diaw are there.   Wouldn't be shocking that they still lose Game 6 in SA but Game 7 is back in Phoenix so it certainly wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility that they take care of business at home and take the series.   The Utah series, has PHX with home-court and, IMO, the Suns were the better team that year and I think it would've shown in a playoff series.  I'm pretty much discounting those two November games where Amare wasn't the Amare that showed up as the season progressed but I'll give you the Feb matchup of being more indicative of how a possible WCF could've played out.  I still think PHX takes it.

Personally, I don't think its much of a stretch at all but, to each, their own.

I think Deron Williams destroys Nash and Boozer probably matches much of what Amare would have done.  I don't think the rest of the Suns have a big enough advantage to overcome Williams edge on Nash. 

Also, I wouldn't be so sure they would have beaten the Cavs.  I mean the Cavs were 2-0 against the Spurs in the regular season that year.  Didn't seem to matter in the post season.  Lebron would have been a handful for the Suns and that Cavs team was very good at slowing down tempo and disrupting offensive flow (that of course was a strength of the Spurs so it didn't help against them).  That is a large reason why the Spurs were able to beat the Suns.  They disrupted them and didn't let them get into that tempo they thrived on.  I think the Cavs could have done much of that as well, though obviously not as well as the Spurs as they weren't as deep or good overall.

[Donoghus]

I mean all of what you said just isn't true? You do realize the entire league plays faster and smaller than the Suns did back then? That GSW won multiple titles playing faster and smaller than the Suns? The Heat did the same?

The GSW dynasty always played elite defense.

Same with Miami and Lebron, they always played great on defense.

Look at D'Antoni's teams from the Suns, to NY, to the Lakers, and to Houston, his teams always gives up a lot of points.

D'Antoni's philosophy is similar to that of Paul Westhead.
That philosophy is your defense is outscoring your opponent.
It just doesn't work!

Houston was sixth in defense rating 17-18 when they were a Chris Paul hamstring away from winning it all.

That was an anomaly.

The Rockets returned the following season, 18-19, with basically having the same team from 17-18, but the Rockets were not as good.

I mean D'Antoni even had Kobe, Dwight, Pau Gasol, and Steve Nash back in 2012-13 and that Laker team couldn't even win one game in the playoffs.

D'Antoni has coached a lot of MVP players, Nash, Kobe, and Harden.
But D'Antoni has never reached the Finals.
His system just doesn't work.

Well clearly it can, because it did. They came closer than anybody to beating a heathy GSW team.  You used the word "always," and as I have demonstrated that is incorrect.

The shame is if Amare & Boris don't step on the court, they probably have a title and this lazy narrative is put to rest.

Eh, that's a stretch.  The Suns were 2-3 in the playoffs vs the Spurs when Amare was there, and were 1-2 in the regular season (though only had 1 home game that year, which they won).

The Suns actually lost by more when Amare was there (losing by 5, 7, and 8 ) vs when he was out (3).  Maybe it was the Amare suspension that motivated the Suns so much to keep it so close in Game 5?  Of course Suns also won by 20 and 6 with Amare, just saying I think people put too much weight on that 3 point loss without Amare.  Hard to bet against the Spurs though, especially in hindsight, knowing how they thrived in the playoffs for so many years.  So I've never quite bought that the Suns would have won if not for that suspension.

And while everyone thinks the Suns would beat the Jazz in the WCF, the Jazz were 3-1 vs the Suns that year (though one game was when Amare was coming off the bench early in the year and only played 16 mins as he was working his way back from a major injury, another was without Nash, both in November).  Plus we just saw the 67 win Mavs got knocked out in the first round, showing you can't assume the best team wins.

Suns definitely had a chance at a championship though, just don't think I'd say "probably."

But then again, Tim Donaghy reffed one of the Suns losses (Game 3, 108-101), and says the series was rigged against the Suns, so who knows.

So its a semantics thing with word "probably".  Got it.

Whoever was coming out of the West that year was winning the title, IMO.   (Phoenix won the reg season series with CLE 2-0 and both wins were by double digits).  Phoenix choked a game away at home in Game 5 that I think plays out a different way if Amare & Diaw are there.   Wouldn't be shocking that they still lose Game 6 in SA but Game 7 is back in Phoenix so it certainly wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility that they take care of business at home and take the series.   The Utah series, has PHX with home-court and, IMO, the Suns were the better team that year and I think it would've shown in a playoff series.  I'm pretty much discounting those two November games where Amare wasn't the Amare that showed up as the season progressed but I'll give you the Feb matchup of being more indicative of how a possible WCF could've played out.  I still think PHX takes it.

Personally, I don't think its much of a stretch at all but, to each, their own.

Now explain how the Suns beat the Spurs.  You're talking about Jazz and Cavs, I'm with you there, the Suns  probably win, no doubt (Jazz would have been a great, close 6-7 game series though, IMO).  I'm mostly talking about the Spurs.

I think it's disrespectful to the Spurs to assume the Suns would have beat them (ha, I hate when people say "it's disrespectful").

What did the Suns do to show they could beat the Spurs with Amare?  They were 2-3 with Amare against the greatest coach (Pop) and greatest winner (Duncan) of that generation.

No Amare suspension, I think the Spurs still win.  That's my issue.  It's not semantics, it's that people seem to think Amare missing 1 game somehow cost the Suns 2 wins.  That math just doesn't add up.

I'm certainly not trying to be disrespectful to the Spurs.  The Duncan-Spurs played some of the most beautiful basketball I've ever seen and I always thought of them as a bit of a spirit child of the 80s Celtics.  Simply, there's a winner of a series & a loser of the series.  I think it goes another way.  If that alone is "disrespectful", I don't know what to say.

I touched on it a bit but I don't think the Suns blow Game 5 if Amare & Diaw play (Spurs only won by 3 and PHX let a double digit lead slip away) then it comes down to homecourt in Game 7.  So I'm really just talking about two games here (5 & 7).  Both teams had won a game earlier in the series on the opposing team's court but the Suns also had a 20 point win in Game 2 in Phoenix.   I just always like a home team's chances in a Game 7.  Like I said initially, I think whoever won that series was winning the title that year and, obviously, San Antonio did.

Also, I wouldn't be so sure they would have beaten the Cavs.  I mean the Cavs were 2-0 against the Spurs in the regular season that year.  Didn't seem to matter in the post season.  Lebron would have been a handful for the Suns and that Cavs team was very good at slowing down tempo and disrupting offensive flow (that of course was a strength of the Spurs so it didn't help against them).  That is a large reason why the Spurs were able to beat the Suns.  They disrupted them and didn't let them get into that tempo they thrived on.  I think the Cavs could have done much of that as well, though obviously not as well as the Spurs as they weren't as deep or good overall.

I think that is just a bunch of wishful thinking.  Suns average margin of victory over the Cavs in '06-07 was 17 points so their tempo wasn't exactly thrown off too much.  Lebron dropped 30+ in both meetings (is that a "handful" enough?) and it wasn't enough.   Pretty much illustrates that the supporting cast around Lebron would've been ill-equipped to handle PHX in the Finals.  Plain & simple, the Suns were a much better team and it really isn't close.

[Who]

The Jazz used to cause the Suns a lot of problems. They had some great games against each other around that time. Not sure the Suns get past the Jazz. Deron Williams was tough for them.

Agree that the Suns would've beaten the Cavs. I am not sure Utah would've beaten the Cavs. Dominant wing players was a big issue they struggled with.

I'd still lean towards the Spurs over Suns without the suspensions. Close battle though.