trade KI or trade for JB?

[GreenEnvy]

Since Lebron isn't going to Philly, some of you have got to find some new boogeyman to fret over.

Jimmy Butler's going back to Chicago? Kyrie's leaving Brad Stevens, Danny Ainge, Jayson Tatum, Al Horford, and Gordon Hayward to go to the dumpster fire that has been the Bulls?

Good heavens.

yeah you right, we haven't seen players/friends team up lately by joining teams with cap space (knicks/nets) cough cough...totally out of the question

Kyrie sounds legitimately excited to play with Hayward and contend again next year. Unless that goes downhill suddenly I don't see why he wouldn't want to stick around.

He does. But he also seems very noncommittal towards the future.

He could easily put the notion of leaving to bed by saying he will resign next offseason when it makes sense financially. Instead he keeps the idea of walking open, insisting he is only concentrating on the upcoming season.

He’s a weird personality and verified troller, so I don’t know what to make of anything he says publicly. I hope Danny and Brad have had productive talks and if either have even the slightest bit of doubt that he will resign next summer, I’d move him before the deadline.

Win or lose, we don’t know how he will react. He’s the type who can win and feel like he did his job and onto the next. Losing him for nothing would set us back some.

A lot can change over the course of a year, why should he commit himself now without a contract? Isaiah Thomas waxed poetic about being here longterm, then got traded when a better player became available.

People were so sure Paul George was bolting OKC after the season, he never committed one way or the other during the season to keep his options open, but re-upped after the season ended.

Kyrie has said how much he enjoys playing here, how much he respects Brad Stevens, how he's locked into this upcoming season, how much he enjoys his teammates, but he's going to wait until free agency to make any longterm decisions. I really struggle to see why that's so unfair for some people. Why do we need him to pinky promise us right now?

I never asked for a pinky promise nor am I struggling with this.

How would he be “committing himself” by saying he wants to play here long term? By not resigning now (which makes 100% sense), he’s keeping his options open regardless of what he says. He can still say his desire to stay here to end the debate of the will he or won’t he. Doesn’t mean he HAS to stay.

From what I recall, PG always expressed he enjoyed playing there and never openly talked about testing free agency, but I could be wrong. Kyrie seems to purposely be creating doubt when he really doesn’t have to (unless he’s letting in be known to other teams to keep cap space open). But that fits with the narrative of a guy who proclaims Earth is flat.

I don’t understand the IT reference, as he was traded for without knowledge or desire. Are you insinuating that could play into Kyrie’s mind when deciding where to sign next summer?

Again, we have no idea what he’s relaying to Danny, so we can only speculate on what he says to the media. And what he says to the media clearly shouldn’t be trusted, good or bad.

[Pucaccia]

If they trade Uncle Drew for KAT, then I am good with that. Bring back the little guy.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Since Lebron isn't going to Philly, some of you have got to find some new boogeyman to fret over.

Jimmy Butler's going back to Chicago? Kyrie's leaving Brad Stevens, Danny Ainge, Jayson Tatum, Al Horford, and Gordon Hayward to go to the dumpster fire that has been the Bulls?

Good heavens.

yeah you right, we haven't seen players/friends team up lately by joining teams with cap space (knicks/nets) cough cough...totally out of the question

Kyrie sounds legitimately excited to play with Hayward and contend again next year. Unless that goes downhill suddenly I don't see why he wouldn't want to stick around.

He does. But he also seems very noncommittal towards the future.

He could easily put the notion of leaving to bed by saying he will resign next offseason when it makes sense financially. Instead he keeps the idea of walking open, insisting he is only concentrating on the upcoming season.

He’s a weird personality and verified troller, so I don’t know what to make of anything he says publicly. I hope Danny and Brad have had productive talks and if either have even the slightest bit of doubt that he will resign next summer, I’d move him before the deadline.

Win or lose, we don’t know how he will react. He’s the type who can win and feel like he did his job and onto the next. Losing him for nothing would set us back some.

A lot can change over the course of a year, why should he commit himself now without a contract? Isaiah Thomas waxed poetic about being here longterm, then got traded when a better player became available.

People were so sure Paul George was bolting OKC after the season, he never committed one way or the other during the season to keep his options open, but re-upped after the season ended.

Kyrie has said how much he enjoys playing here, how much he respects Brad Stevens, how he's locked into this upcoming season, how much he enjoys his teammates, but he's going to wait until free agency to make any longterm decisions. I really struggle to see why that's so unfair for some people. Why do we need him to pinky promise us right now?

Why the condescension (i.e., "pinky promise")?  The sentiment that one is 'irrationally hating' or overly emotional simply use they do not trust or dislike a player for their organization is not an indicator of weakness, short-sightedness, etc.   

[mmmmm]

I've advocated for Jimmy Butler before, but there's an alarming pattern emerging with him. His younger Bulls teammates didn't like him and now he's clashing with the young guys in Minnesota. Sure, some of that can be the young guys aren't matching his work ethic and are therefore underachieving, but he's leaving a lot to be desired in the leadership department.

Just an aside:  But aren't Jimmy Butler and Jaylen Brown good friends already?  I think they do off-season workouts together?

[Fafnir]

I really don't get how you think PG didn't fuel the FA thing, he did so many interviews and a documentary series on it lol.

Now he also made his decision very quickly and clearly had decided to stay a while ago, but OKC was pretty tight lipped about it it then too. We will see what happens with Kyrie that's just the NBA now.

[mmmmm]

This Irving to Minnesota thing has been talked about before. I could see that deal happening a lot more than Butler coming to the C's.

I'd actually do the Kat for Irving deal after what just happened with Warriors. No one is winning against that team for a while so stock up on young growing stars.

Cousins is going to be in GS for 1 season, half of which will be rehabbing from an Achilles rupture. People need to stop panicking.

It's not panicking it's coming to terms with the reality of the situation. Even before Cousins it was a very long shot to win against the Warriors for at least 2 years. And with Irving not saying anything like "I'mean here to stay" I'm not committed to that player.

Like I've said in many threads, I'm not expecting Kyrie to make any longterm declarations here before signing a new deal until Danny Ainge goes on record saying "We're not trading Kyrie under any circumstances". And we all know Danny will never do such a thing. So we can stop expecting one-sided loyalty? Ask Isaiah Thomas how that worked out for him.

You get a Tommy Point for that one!

[jambr380]

If your policy is to trade anyone you have any doubt of resigning in FA, then you are just going to trade every player in the last year of his contract.

Eh, kind-of true, but I think our biggest long-term assets are Tatum and Brown and we basically have them under team control and can extend them a 5-year deal before they even come up for RFA. I wouldn't consider trading them unless they refused max contract extensions after year 3.

The NBA should absolutely change their extension policy for non-RFA players. It isn't really fair to guys like Kyrie OR us that we cannot extend him the 'would-be' 2019 max this off-season. The NBA is trying to make it advantageous for teams to keep their own FAs. It seems they really dropped the ball on this one.

Somebody else mentioned IT and one-sided loyalty, but that isn't really relevant here. He was never a player we were interested in signing a long-term max contract to; Kyrie is absolutely a max player under all circumstances. He was before we traded for him and he will be afterwards; IT was on a super-bargain contract.

[RJ87]

Since Lebron isn't going to Philly, some of you have got to find some new boogeyman to fret over.

Jimmy Butler's going back to Chicago? Kyrie's leaving Brad Stevens, Danny Ainge, Jayson Tatum, Al Horford, and Gordon Hayward to go to the dumpster fire that has been the Bulls?

Good heavens.

yeah you right, we haven't seen players/friends team up lately by joining teams with cap space (knicks/nets) cough cough...totally out of the question

Kyrie sounds legitimately excited to play with Hayward and contend again next year. Unless that goes downhill suddenly I don't see why he wouldn't want to stick around.

He does. But he also seems very noncommittal towards the future.

He could easily put the notion of leaving to bed by saying he will resign next offseason when it makes sense financially. Instead he keeps the idea of walking open, insisting he is only concentrating on the upcoming season.

He’s a weird personality and verified troller, so I don’t know what to make of anything he says publicly. I hope Danny and Brad have had productive talks and if either have even the slightest bit of doubt that he will resign next summer, I’d move him before the deadline.

Win or lose, we don’t know how he will react. He’s the type who can win and feel like he did his job and onto the next. Losing him for nothing would set us back some.

A lot can change over the course of a year, why should he commit himself now without a contract? Isaiah Thomas waxed poetic about being here longterm, then got traded when a better player became available.

People were so sure Paul George was bolting OKC after the season, he never committed one way or the other during the season to keep his options open, but re-upped after the season ended.

Kyrie has said how much he enjoys playing here, how much he respects Brad Stevens, how he's locked into this upcoming season, how much he enjoys his teammates, but he's going to wait until free agency to make any longterm decisions. I really struggle to see why that's so unfair for some people. Why do we need him to pinky promise us right now?

I never asked for a pinky promise nor am I struggling with this.

How would he be “committing himself” by saying he wants to play here long term? By not resigning now (which makes 100% sense), he’s keeping his options open regardless of what he says. He can still say his desire to stay here to end the debate of the will he or won’t he. Doesn’t mean he HAS to stay.

From what I recall, PG always expressed he enjoyed playing there and never openly talked about testing free agency, but I could be wrong. Kyrie seems to purposely be creating doubt when he really doesn’t have to (unless he’s letting in be known to other teams to keep cap space open). But that fits with the narrative of a guy who proclaims Earth is flat.

I don’t understand the IT reference, as he was traded for without knowledge or desire. Are you insinuating that could play into Kyrie’s mind when deciding where to sign next summer?

Again, we have no idea what he’s relaying to Danny, so we can only speculate on what he says to the media. And what he says to the media clearly shouldn’t be trusted, good or bad.

Paul George said multiple times that he would look at all of his options when he got to free agency. Hence the shock that he didn't even meet with other teams (especially the Lakers) when FA started. He even said it in a sitdown with Woj after he was traded to OKC. There was also the ESPN offseason documentary where he's literally discussing others teams with Dwade.

The IT reference is because of this one-sided loyalty people expect from players versus franchises. No one's calling for Danny to come out and say "I will not trade X player" and he shouldn't because circumstances can change. Why is that different for players? If he says he wants to be here longterm and ends up walking next year for whatever reason, he makes himself look worse. And for the record, I don't know if what happened with IT will affect Kyrie's free agency or his thinking. But it wouldn't shock me if he's gun shy about proclaiming a future with Celtics without a new contract in place knowing how shrewd of a businessman Danny can be.

And anything he says about staying longterm without a contract in place is essentially a pinky promise. He's said repeatedly how much he likes playing here and he likes his teammates and coach, but no one focuses on that. He's not going out of his way to say he may leave or wants to, he got asked a question and he gave an honest answer.

[GreenEnvy]

Since Lebron isn't going to Philly, some of you have got to find some new boogeyman to fret over.

Jimmy Butler's going back to Chicago? Kyrie's leaving Brad Stevens, Danny Ainge, Jayson Tatum, Al Horford, and Gordon Hayward to go to the dumpster fire that has been the Bulls?

Good heavens.

yeah you right, we haven't seen players/friends team up lately by joining teams with cap space (knicks/nets) cough cough...totally out of the question

Kyrie sounds legitimately excited to play with Hayward and contend again next year. Unless that goes downhill suddenly I don't see why he wouldn't want to stick around.

He does. But he also seems very noncommittal towards the future.

He could easily put the notion of leaving to bed by saying he will resign next offseason when it makes sense financially. Instead he keeps the idea of walking open, insisting he is only concentrating on the upcoming season.

He’s a weird personality and verified troller, so I don’t know what to make of anything he says publicly. I hope Danny and Brad have had productive talks and if either have even the slightest bit of doubt that he will resign next summer, I’d move him before the deadline.

Win or lose, we don’t know how he will react. He’s the type who can win and feel like he did his job and onto the next. Losing him for nothing would set us back some.

A lot can change over the course of a year, why should he commit himself now without a contract? Isaiah Thomas waxed poetic about being here longterm, then got traded when a better player became available.

People were so sure Paul George was bolting OKC after the season, he never committed one way or the other during the season to keep his options open, but re-upped after the season ended.

Kyrie has said how much he enjoys playing here, how much he respects Brad Stevens, how he's locked into this upcoming season, how much he enjoys his teammates, but he's going to wait until free agency to make any longterm decisions. I really struggle to see why that's so unfair for some people. Why do we need him to pinky promise us right now?

I never asked for a pinky promise nor am I struggling with this.

How would he be “committing himself” by saying he wants to play here long term? By not resigning now (which makes 100% sense), he’s keeping his options open regardless of what he says. He can still say his desire to stay here to end the debate of the will he or won’t he. Doesn’t mean he HAS to stay.

From what I recall, PG always expressed he enjoyed playing there and never openly talked about testing free agency, but I could be wrong. Kyrie seems to purposely be creating doubt when he really doesn’t have to (unless he’s letting in be known to other teams to keep cap space open). But that fits with the narrative of a guy who proclaims Earth is flat.

I don’t understand the IT reference, as he was traded for without knowledge or desire. Are you insinuating that could play into Kyrie’s mind when deciding where to sign next summer?

Again, we have no idea what he’s relaying to Danny, so we can only speculate on what he says to the media. And what he says to the media clearly shouldn’t be trusted, good or bad.

Paul George said multiple times that he would look at all of his options when he got to free agency. Hence the shock that he didn't even meet with other teams (especially the Lakers) when FA started. He even said it in a sitdown with Woj after he was traded to OKC. There was also the ESPN offseason documentary where he's literally discussing others teams with Dwade.

The IT reference is because of this one-sided loyalty people expect from players versus franchises. No one's calling for Danny to come out and say "I will not trade X player" and he shouldn't because circumstances can change. Why is that different for players? If he says he wants to be here longterm and ends up walking next year for whatever reason, he makes himself look worse. And for the record, I don't know if what happened with IT will affect Kyrie's free agency or his thinking. But it wouldn't shock me if he's gun shy about proclaiming a future with Celtics without a new contract in place knowing how shrewd of a businessman Danny can be.

And anything he says about staying longterm without a contract in place is essentially a pinky promise. He's said repeatedly how much he likes playing here and he likes his teammates and coach, but no one focuses on that. He's not going out of his way to say he may leave or wants to, he got asked a question and he gave an honest answer.

The ESPN thing was them assuming he was going to LA. I doubt PG called them up asking to detail the otherwise uneventful free agency talks.

Very rarely do GM’s make trades to make their team worse. Players routinely put themselves in worse situations for various reasons. There is no way NYK make more sense ensue than Boston, in any aspect. But would anyone be surprised if he did that?

Sounds like you think Kyrie should start doing the KD 1+1 every year and keep opting out. Keeps his options open and wouldn’t he get a NTC?

Do you think he really cares what people think about him? The same guy that refused to speak to his entire team for a few days during the Finals? Who also threatened season-missing surgery if he wasn’t traded?

You can be a Kyrie apologist, but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. I hope he stays and this is all for naught (him seeking attention), but I wouldn’t be surprised if he wanted a new “challenge” or the universe has chosen a different path for him or whatever nonsense he will spew if he leaves.

[RJ87]

Since Lebron isn't going to Philly, some of you have got to find some new boogeyman to fret over.

Jimmy Butler's going back to Chicago? Kyrie's leaving Brad Stevens, Danny Ainge, Jayson Tatum, Al Horford, and Gordon Hayward to go to the dumpster fire that has been the Bulls?

Good heavens.

yeah you right, we haven't seen players/friends team up lately by joining teams with cap space (knicks/nets) cough cough...totally out of the question

Kyrie sounds legitimately excited to play with Hayward and contend again next year. Unless that goes downhill suddenly I don't see why he wouldn't want to stick around.

He does. But he also seems very noncommittal towards the future.

He could easily put the notion of leaving to bed by saying he will resign next offseason when it makes sense financially. Instead he keeps the idea of walking open, insisting he is only concentrating on the upcoming season.

He’s a weird personality and verified troller, so I don’t know what to make of anything he says publicly. I hope Danny and Brad have had productive talks and if either have even the slightest bit of doubt that he will resign next summer, I’d move him before the deadline.

Win or lose, we don’t know how he will react. He’s the type who can win and feel like he did his job and onto the next. Losing him for nothing would set us back some.

A lot can change over the course of a year, why should he commit himself now without a contract? Isaiah Thomas waxed poetic about being here longterm, then got traded when a better player became available.

People were so sure Paul George was bolting OKC after the season, he never committed one way or the other during the season to keep his options open, but re-upped after the season ended.

Kyrie has said how much he enjoys playing here, how much he respects Brad Stevens, how he's locked into this upcoming season, how much he enjoys his teammates, but he's going to wait until free agency to make any longterm decisions. I really struggle to see why that's so unfair for some people. Why do we need him to pinky promise us right now?

I never asked for a pinky promise nor am I struggling with this.

How would he be “committing himself” by saying he wants to play here long term? By not resigning now (which makes 100% sense), he’s keeping his options open regardless of what he says. He can still say his desire to stay here to end the debate of the will he or won’t he. Doesn’t mean he HAS to stay.

From what I recall, PG always expressed he enjoyed playing there and never openly talked about testing free agency, but I could be wrong. Kyrie seems to purposely be creating doubt when he really doesn’t have to (unless he’s letting in be known to other teams to keep cap space open). But that fits with the narrative of a guy who proclaims Earth is flat.

I don’t understand the IT reference, as he was traded for without knowledge or desire. Are you insinuating that could play into Kyrie’s mind when deciding where to sign next summer?

Again, we have no idea what he’s relaying to Danny, so we can only speculate on what he says to the media. And what he says to the media clearly shouldn’t be trusted, good or bad.

Paul George said multiple times that he would look at all of his options when he got to free agency. Hence the shock that he didn't even meet with other teams (especially the Lakers) when FA started. He even said it in a sitdown with Woj after he was traded to OKC. There was also the ESPN offseason documentary where he's literally discussing others teams with Dwade.

The IT reference is because of this one-sided loyalty people expect from players versus franchises. No one's calling for Danny to come out and say "I will not trade X player" and he shouldn't because circumstances can change. Why is that different for players? If he says he wants to be here longterm and ends up walking next year for whatever reason, he makes himself look worse. And for the record, I don't know if what happened with IT will affect Kyrie's free agency or his thinking. But it wouldn't shock me if he's gun shy about proclaiming a future with Celtics without a new contract in place knowing how shrewd of a businessman Danny can be.

And anything he says about staying longterm without a contract in place is essentially a pinky promise. He's said repeatedly how much he likes playing here and he likes his teammates and coach, but no one focuses on that. He's not going out of his way to say he may leave or wants to, he got asked a question and he gave an honest answer.

The ESPN thing was them assuming he was going to LA. I doubt PG called them up asking to detail the otherwise uneventful free agency talks.

Very rarely do GM’s make trades to make their team worse. Players routinely put themselves in worse situations for various reasons. There is no way NYK make more sense ensue than Boston, in any aspect. But would anyone be surprised if he did that?

Sounds like you think Kyrie should start doing the KD 1+1 every year and keep opting out. Keeps his options open and wouldn’t he get a NTC?

Do you think he really cares what people think about him? The same guy that refused to speak to his entire team for a few days during the Finals? Who also threatened season-missing surgery if he wasn’t traded?

You can be a Kyrie apologist, but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. I hope he stays and this is all for naught (him seeking attention), but I wouldn’t be surprised if he wanted a new “challenge” or the universe has chosen a different path for him or whatever nonsense he will spew if he leaves.

Um, of course Paul George's people called ESPN and set the whole documentary up. That's why players have publicists and agents. That's sports marketing basics. Source: myself. I work in physical therapy with professional athletes. You'd be surprised to know the things they want to have filmed because their people think it's good content.

As to the rest of what you said, you put a lot of words in my mouth without addressing much what I said in my previous post.

[KGBirdBias]

If they trade Uncle Drew for KAT, then I am good with that. Bring back the little guy.

Exactly. So Butler wants to play with Kyrie? Um ok but Celtics fans won't be cool with giving up Brown or Tatum for Butler. That ship has sailed on Butler to the Celtics. Now if the TWolves want to deal KAT for Kyrie ok.

It's funny that both guys weren't cool with the face of the franchises in KAT or Bron. Meanwhile Klay is the 4th option and you never hear a peep out of him. Everyone wants the assistant coach or backup QB, but things change when you become the HC or starting QB...face of the franchise. What have either of them done as the guy? I want Kyrie but all this "playing with my friend" crap needs to stop. Fans want to see guys go at each other. This is a business, not AAU.

[Boise To Boston]

I would do that.  Not sure if Minnesota would.  I think it would need to be Memphis pick + 2-3 firsts. 

That's the only trade I would do for Butler.  People have floated around the idea of Jaylen Brown - but if you look back on their respective first two years in the league, Brown is away ahead of the likes of PG13 and Jimmy B.  I don't think some people understand how valuable Brown is. 

Rozier, Morris, and picks (minus SAC pick) for Butler?

[vjcsmoke]

Kyrie has said how much he enjoys playing here, how much he respects Brad Stevens, how he's locked into this upcoming season, how much he enjoys his teammates, but he's going to wait until free agency to make any longterm decisions. I really struggle to see why that's so unfair for some people. Why do we need him to pinky promise us right now?

Because people fear the unknown.  Unless something majorly wrong happens in the next 12 months I expect Kyrie to stay with Boston.  There's no reason to doubt that as of today.

[Boise To Boston]

I would do Kyrie for KAT.  Horford and Stevens can teach KAT to play defense, and we get younger and more talented at a position of need.

[Atzar]

I would do Kyrie for KAT.  Horford and Stevens can teach KAT to play defense, and we get younger and more talented at a position of need.

Can they?  Thibodeau is a defensive-minded coach and hasn't had much luck getting KAT to play defense.  Jimmy Butler is reportedly frustrated with his inability to break through to him.  Whether KAT is worth the price even with his shortcomings is up for debate, but I certainly don't trade for him based on the belief that our culture can magically turn him into something he's not.