Sweet Leon Powe Thread

[EJPLAYA]

The thing I love about Leon, and the reason I have always maintained he was the better player, is that he comes up big in big games when needed. His huge heart gives him the will to step up in situations like that when we need him most. His aggressive play on the boards and low blocks is amazing to watch and an under-appreciated skill. I don't care if the guy ever develops a jumper, although from the sound of it he is hitting it more and more in practice. Those who say he has little upside potential just give the guy more reason to overcome adversity. Leon is the man.

This isn't true. He's had some terrible games in big spots. He plays hard, but he's just not consistent. Especially when he has to play extended minutes against other teams starters. He didn't play very well in game 5 of the finals last year, and often has had some invisible games when he should be having a great impact.

Some games he bangs and produces. Other games he gets 3 fouls in 6 minutes trying to draw charges or fighting for rebounds.

So sorry. I wasn't aware that you were the decider in what is true and what is false. I actually thought these comments on here were opinions. I should check with you first to make sure that something is true before I post it...

So you pick out a couple games in his career that he struggled?! You rip the guy for trying to take charges and being overzealous rebounding?! I don't know if you have ever played the game or not, but those things are hustle plays that EVERY coach wants out of his guys and is NEVER upset with. Show me the Terrible games in big spots instead of just generalizing.

I can name quite a few big games that he has played like an all-star in. Replacing Perk against the Lakers very well could have solidified our shot at a championship last year. Last night's game with KG out and BBD getting tossed he plays an amazing game. WHEN IT COUNTED. The guy only gets 16 min a game yet puts up the numbers he does with the shooting percentage he does... The man is nothing but consistent. 7-8 pts a game and 4-4.5 boards a game with 50+% shooting in 15 min a game average over the last two years is very impressive.  If you want to pick one or two games that he struggled in, then let's rip the big three as well because they have lots of games where they don't show up. Heck, Ray didn't show up for a series and a half last year in the playoffs.

[Fafnir]

The thing I love about Leon, and the reason I have always maintained he was the better player, is that he comes up big in big games when needed. His huge heart gives him the will to step up in situations like that when we need him most. His aggressive play on the boards and low blocks is amazing to watch and an under-appreciated skill. I don't care if the guy ever develops a jumper, although from the sound of it he is hitting it more and more in practice. Those who say he has little upside potential just give the guy more reason to overcome adversity. Leon is the man.

This isn't true. He's had some terrible games in big spots. He plays hard, but he's just not consistent. Especially when he has to play extended minutes against other teams starters. He didn't play very well in game 5 of the finals last year, and often has had some invisible games when he should be having a great impact.

Some games he bangs and produces. Other games he gets 3 fouls in 6 minutes trying to draw charges or fighting for rebounds.

I see powe as one of the most consistant players on the team.  Lots of bigs get in foul trouble once in a while, even KG.  IMO Leon brings it every second he's on the court, and he deserves more time.

One of the most consistent, really? I don't see that. Ray, KG, Pierce, Rondo, and Perk are all more consistent. So since we play 8 to 9 players any given night he's in the bottom half our our team as far as consistency.

Both he and BBD foul at a pretty high rate, much higher than KG. Even a good deal higher than Perk. Which is fine as they're backups.

[Jon]

I think what I was most impressed about with Leon (and Baby too) was their ability to dominate Cleveland's much taller frontline.  Last year in the playoffs, one of the biggest problems both of them had was trying to finish against the huge frontlines of Atlanta and Cleveland (who at times, could sport lineups with three players taller than either Powe or Davis).  Hopefully, this can keep up in a 7 game series.  I think the biggest key for it to continue is to exploit the much slower Cleveland frontline in the transition game.  Having Marbury on board certainly helps with that; as now, even when Rondo's out, we still have someone who can push the ball.  

[Fafnir]

The thing I love about Leon, and the reason I have always maintained he was the better player, is that he comes up big in big games when needed. His huge heart gives him the will to step up in situations like that when we need him most. His aggressive play on the boards and low blocks is amazing to watch and an under-appreciated skill. I don't care if the guy ever develops a jumper, although from the sound of it he is hitting it more and more in practice. Those who say he has little upside potential just give the guy more reason to overcome adversity. Leon is the man.

This isn't true. He's had some terrible games in big spots. He plays hard, but he's just not consistent. Especially when he has to play extended minutes against other teams starters. He didn't play very well in game 5 of the finals last year, and often has had some invisible games when he should be having a great impact.

Some games he bangs and produces. Other games he gets 3 fouls in 6 minutes trying to draw charges or fighting for rebounds.

So sorry. I wasn't aware that you were the decider in what is true and what is false. I actually thought these comments on here were opinions. I should check with you first to make sure that something is true before I post it...

This comment is sarcastic and unnecessary. I was giving my opinion that what you said wasn't correct. I would love to have a conversation with you about it, but I'm not sure that is possible based on how you started this post and your past posting history.

[EJPLAYA]

The thing I love about Leon, and the reason I have always maintained he was the better player, is that he comes up big in big games when needed. His huge heart gives him the will to step up in situations like that when we need him most. His aggressive play on the boards and low blocks is amazing to watch and an under-appreciated skill. I don't care if the guy ever develops a jumper, although from the sound of it he is hitting it more and more in practice. Those who say he has little upside potential just give the guy more reason to overcome adversity. Leon is the man.

This isn't true. He's had some terrible games in big spots. He plays hard, but he's just not consistent. Especially when he has to play extended minutes against other teams starters. He didn't play very well in game 5 of the finals last year, and often has had some invisible games when he should be having a great impact.

Some games he bangs and produces. Other games he gets 3 fouls in 6 minutes trying to draw charges or fighting for rebounds.

So sorry. I wasn't aware that you were the decider in what is true and what is false. I actually thought these comments on here were opinions. I should check with you first to make sure that something is true before I post it...

This comment is sarcastic and unnecessary. I was giving my opinion that what you said wasn't correct. I would love to have a conversation with you about it, but I'm not sure that is possible based on how you started this post and your past posting history.

There you go. Your response was much more appropriate. Attacking my posting history. That will open up the dialogue. A little sarcasm isn't the end of the world. If I offended you I apologize. It might be a little easier to discuss though if you said something like "I disagree because..." instead of telling someone what they are saying isn't true.

As far as your other response, there is a reason that those guys are starters and not backups. You can't compare Powe, or BBD, or Scal, etc to starters. If they were consistent night in and night out at a very high level they'd be starters themselves. Compare Powe to BBD, or a Maxiell, or other backup PF  and then you have a realistic discussion.

[Fafnir]

The thing I love about Leon, and the reason I have always maintained he was the better player, is that he comes up big in big games when needed. His huge heart gives him the will to step up in situations like that when we need him most. His aggressive play on the boards and low blocks is amazing to watch and an under-appreciated skill. I don't care if the guy ever develops a jumper, although from the sound of it he is hitting it more and more in practice. Those who say he has little upside potential just give the guy more reason to overcome adversity. Leon is the man.

This isn't true. He's had some terrible games in big spots. He plays hard, but he's just not consistent. Especially when he has to play extended minutes against other teams starters. He didn't play very well in game 5 of the finals last year, and often has had some invisible games when he should be having a great impact.

Some games he bangs and produces. Other games he gets 3 fouls in 6 minutes trying to draw charges or fighting for rebounds.

Replacing Perk against the Lakers very well could have solidified our shot at a championship last year

I've decided to just ignore the unneeded personal shot and continue a normal conversation, lets just avoid personal attacks like that deal?

Do you remember his stat line from that finals game?

5 minutes 0 points on 0 shouts with 2 defensive rebounds and one foul.

Go look at his playoff game log, he didn't get consistent minutes. When he did get minutes he didn't produce consistently. Powe gives great effort every night, but he doesn't always give great production. You made the statement that:

The thing I love about Leon, and the reason I have always maintained he was the better player, is that he comes up big in big games when needed.

I provided a counter-example that was the biggest game of his career, starting on the road in the Finals. I was trying to show that your claim wasn't true. It isn't my job to prove a negative, that Powe isn't consistent. You made a claim, you should be able to back it up with more than per game averages.

I don't dislike Powe at all. But I think you're putting a lot of emotion into this.

[Fafnir]

The thing I love about Leon, and the reason I have always maintained he was the better player, is that he comes up big in big games when needed. His huge heart gives him the will to step up in situations like that when we need him most. His aggressive play on the boards and low blocks is amazing to watch and an under-appreciated skill. I don't care if the guy ever develops a jumper, although from the sound of it he is hitting it more and more in practice. Those who say he has little upside potential just give the guy more reason to overcome adversity. Leon is the man.

This isn't true. He's had some terrible games in big spots. He plays hard, but he's just not consistent. Especially when he has to play extended minutes against other teams starters. He didn't play very well in game 5 of the finals last year, and often has had some invisible games when he should be having a great impact.

Some games he bangs and produces. Other games he gets 3 fouls in 6 minutes trying to draw charges or fighting for rebounds.

So sorry. I wasn't aware that you were the decider in what is true and what is false. I actually thought these comments on here were opinions. I should check with you first to make sure that something is true before I post it...

This comment is sarcastic and unnecessary. I was giving my opinion that what you said wasn't correct. I would love to have a conversation with you about it, but I'm not sure that is possible based on how you started this post and your past posting history.

There you go. Your response was much more appropriate. Attacking my posting history. That will open up the dialogue. A little sarcasm isn't the end of the world. If I offended you I apologize. It might be a little easier to discuss though if you said something like "I disagree because..." instead of telling someone what they are saying isn't true.

Okay never mind, I'm done.

A false apology with more venom than this is worth, along demands that I prove your broad statements wrong when you haven't provided the parameters of your argument. I fear you aren't going to give my even a fair hearing. Is the sentence "This isn't true" that different that "I disagree"?

If you don't want people to consider your previous posts you shouldn't be so hostile or sarcastic to those who disagree with you. There is plenty of room to debate with out the nastiness.

[Scalablob990]

The thing I love about Leon, and the reason I have always maintained he was the better player, is that he comes up big in big games when needed. His huge heart gives him the will to step up in situations like that when we need him most. His aggressive play on the boards and low blocks is amazing to watch and an under-appreciated skill. I don't care if the guy ever develops a jumper, although from the sound of it he is hitting it more and more in practice. Those who say he has little upside potential just give the guy more reason to overcome adversity. Leon is the man.

This isn't true. He's had some terrible games in big spots. He plays hard, but he's just not consistent. Especially when he has to play extended minutes against other teams starters. He didn't play very well in game 5 of the finals last year, and often has had some invisible games when he should be having a great impact.

Some games he bangs and produces. Other games he gets 3 fouls in 6 minutes trying to draw charges or fighting for rebounds.

Replacing Perk against the Lakers very well could have solidified our shot at a championship last year

I've decided to just ignore the unneeded personal shot and continue a normal conversation, lets just avoid personal attacks like that deal?

Do you remember his stat line from that finals game?

5 minutes 0 points on 0 shouts with 2 defensive rebounds and one foul.

Go look at his playoff game log, he didn't get consistent minutes. When he did get minutes he didn't produce consistently. Powe gives great effort every night, but he doesn't always give great production. You made the statement that:

The thing I love about Leon, and the reason I have always maintained he was the better player, is that he comes up big in big games when needed.

I provided a counter-example that was the biggest game of his career, starting on the road in the Finals. I was trying to show that your claim wasn't true. It isn't my job to prove a negative, that Powe isn't consistent. You made a claim, you should be able to back it up with more than per game averages.

I don't dislike Powe at all. But I think you're putting a lot of emotion into this.

  I learned to sit out of the Powe/BBD convos a while back. I kept getting too worked up, Danny could be smart and just try to sign them both for a reasonable salary. I don't think BBD, and especially Powe are going to demand a huge multi-million $ contract deal when the season is over. Just sign em both and get rid of Scal  .

[Fafnir]

  I learned to sit out of the Powe/BBD convos a while back. I kept getting too worked up, Danny could be smart and just try to sign them both for a reasonable salary. I don't think BBD, and especially Powe are going to demand a huge multi-million $ contract deal when the season is over. Just sign em both and get rid of Scal  .

You are a wise man, er ice cream cone, er lets just go with CB poster.

I definitely would love to keep them both, but it all depend on price. Plus if you could get someone like Sheed but let BBD/Powe go to pay for it, I think that is a move you have to make. Next off season will be very interesting, especially as Ray Allen will transform from 9 time all-star shooting guard into "Ray Allen's expiring contract".

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't think Leon has really been inconsistent this season.  Rather, he had one terrible slump, with the rest of the season being solid. 

He's shot over 50% in every month but January.  He's averaged about a rebound every 4 minutes for most of the season.  However, from January 19 until January 30, he shot a horrific 3-for-23 over a six game stretch.  I think that streak is staying with a lot of people in terms of their perception of Leon's season as a whole.

[expobear]

I don't think Leon has really been inconsistent this season.  Rather, he had one terrible slump, with the rest of the season being solid. 

He's shot over 50% in every month but January.  He's averaged about a rebound every 4 minutes for most of the season.  However, from January 19 until January 30, he shot a horrific 3-for-23 over a six game stretch.  I think that streak is staying with a lot of people in terms of their perception of Leon's season as a whole.

Maybe that's when Leon's perception as a "black hole" was solidified also!   

[FLCeltsFan]

I don't think there is a player in the league who gets more out of his minutes than Leon.  Whether he gets 5 minutes or 25 minutes, he always makes the most of them. I love Leon! 

[Chris]

I don't think Leon has really been inconsistent this season.  Rather, he had one terrible slump, with the rest of the season being solid. 

He's shot over 50% in every month but January.  He's averaged about a rebound every 4 minutes for most of the season.  However, from January 19 until January 30, he shot a horrific 3-for-23 over a six game stretch.  I think that streak is staying with a lot of people in terms of their perception of Leon's season as a whole.

I don't know.  While I agree that the slump in January was bad, he was not great up until that slump either.  The numbers may not show it (or they may, I havent looked), but I know I was very disapointed in the way he was playing for all but a few select games up until about a month ago.  He wasn't terrible, but he didn't seem to be building on last year like he has lately.  

So maybe inconsistent isn't the right word.  But I think he absolutely has made a significant improvement in his overall game in the last month.  He has even become a force defensively, which he absolutely was not for the first 3 months of the season.

[Fafnir]

I don't think Leon has really been inconsistent this season.  Rather, he had one terrible slump, with the rest of the season being solid. 

He's shot over 50% in every month but January.  He's averaged about a rebound every 4 minutes for most of the season.  However, from January 19 until January 30, he shot a horrific 3-for-23 over a six game stretch.  I think that streak is staying with a lot of people in terms of their perception of Leon's season as a whole.

Maybe that's when Leon's perception as a "black hole" was solidified also!   

Leon does have the lowest, or one of the lowest assist rates in all of the NBA.

[EJPLAYA]

Here are some facts:

October : 63% fg % averaging 13 pts and 4 boards (yes it was only 2 games)

November : 53% fg% 6.7 pts and 4.1 boards in 17 min. 5 games in double digits, 8 above his average that month.

December : 52.4% fg% and 6.3 pts and 3.6 boards in only 13.5 min. 4 double digit games and 8 above months average.

Jan: 38.3 % fg % and 4.9 pts and 4.5 boards in 14.6 min per. The last 2 weeks of the month he was awful offensively. He only scored 12 pts in 6 total games yet continued to rebound well in very limited minutes. The first two weeks he was solid like the rest of the year.

Feb: 50.7 % fg% and 8.3 pts and 6.1 boards. in 21 minutes.

Mar so far: 82.4% fg% and 12.7 pts and 6.7 boards in 21 min.

The big problem I have with the Powe detractors is that they take 2 weeks where Powe did indeed struggle and try to insinuate he has always done that. The facts are very clear that this isn't accurate. The previous year once he started getting time mid year he put up very similar numbers. Sure he didn't put up huge numbers in the finals except for that one game. The rotations were much shorter and starters played more minutes. In 7-8 min a game, you are going to have a tough time always getting in a groove. He did come up huge though when it was needed most. Look at FACTS instead of just remembering a game or two where he struggled. If you use that logic then no one would look good, including the All-Stars.