Kyrie done for rest of Season and Playoffs; needs second surgery

[KGs Knee]

I’m not sure if the official press release was issued:

This Saturday, Celtics guard Kyrie Irving will undergo a procedure to remove two screws implanted in his left patella after the patellar fracture he suffered during the NBA Finals in 2015. Following a mid-March procedure to remove a tension wire that had been implanted at the same time as the screws, pathology indicated the presence of a bacterial infection at the site of the hardware. To ensure that no infection remains in the knee, the screws will be removed. The fracture in Irving’s patella has completely healed, and his knee remains structurally sound. He is expected to make a full recovery in 4-5 months.

So, those earlier reports of “trade me or I’ll get season-ending surgery” may have been accurate.

https://mobile.twitter.com/joevardon/status/956617696371793920?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

 I had no idea this was a 5-month recovery.  However, if Cleveland reporters knew, you’ve got to assume that Danny did, too. I’m surprised we couldn’t use that info to get a little more leverage.

I guess we all should have been paying more attention to the fact the screws were still in there and would eventually need to come out.

It's clear he tried to use this as leverage against the Cavs, but it really only worked because LeBron was holding the team hostage with his contract situation.  If LeBron was under contract for 2-3 years, they probably would have called him on his bluff.  I think Danny was unable to use this as leverage, because I suspect he knew just how messed up Thomas' hip really was at that point, and figured Kyrie's situation was far less worrisome in the long run.

And that seems to have proven true.  Thomas looks like he's unlikely to ever regain last season's form, while despite the unfortunate timing of when the screws had to come out of Kyrie's knee, the doctors have diagnosed his knee as fully healed.  It's reasonable to assume Kyrie should be able to maintain his current level for the foreseeable future.

[mctyson]

I will reiterate that Danny Ainge is getting WAY too much of a pass for trading for a guy with a pretty serious, and known, knee problem.

Jury is out on that assessment. Kyrie played great for 60 games. If he never matches that level of performance in future you will be right. If he does, it will go down as a solid trade. Of course unless Cavs get lucky with BKN pick.

What I highlighted here is the problem.

Danny knew this could happen, no doubt, and risked the BK 18 pick for him.  Right now that is not looking very good.

[mctyson]

I will reiterate that Danny Ainge is getting WAY too much of a pass for trading for a guy with a pretty serious, and known, knee problem.

Will be right back, just need to check on current status of the sky!

Let me just throw this scenario out for you:

Boston, with Kyrie out for the season due to a pre-existing injury, gets bounced in the 1st round of the playoffs.

Cleveland, with players acquired from the Kyrie trade (albeit following a second trade), makes the NBA Finals.

Cleveland then lands a top-5 pick via the BK 18 pick acquired in the Kyrie trade, and nets a young player that eventually becomes a multiple time All Star.

Is the above mentioned scenario really "sky is falling" likelihood?  I think that has a reasonable chance of occurring.  If that happens, is Boston not a clear loser in the Kyrie trade?

[KGs Knee]

I will reiterate that Danny Ainge is getting WAY too much of a pass for trading for a guy with a pretty serious, and known, knee problem.

Jury is out on that assessment. Kyrie played great for 60 games. If he never matches that level of performance in future you will be right. If he does, it will go down as a solid trade. Of course unless Cavs get lucky with BKN pick.

What I highlighted here is the problem.

Danny knew this could happen, no doubt, and risked the BK 18 pick for him.  Right now that is not looking very good.

This seems very short-sighted and fails to recognize the NBA will continue to exist beyond just this season.  That trade was always more about setting the team up for a brighter future than an immediate success.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Brutal.  A disappointing way for this season to end.  I was looking forward to what this team could do, albeit sans Hayward.

Still, with Theis already out for the year and Smart probably done as well, it makes sense to play it safe with Kyrie.  They made the mistake last season of letting their star guard push through injury to play in the postseason, and look how that worked out for the player.

We'll still get to see Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Horford play a lot of minutes in the playoffs, which should be entertaining, even if they struggle to make it out of Round 1.


Next year: Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Horford.

I don't care who's coming off the bench; that's a team to be excited about, as long as those 5 guys are healthy.

And therein lies the rub. I put the odds of all 5 of those guys staying relatively healthy all next season at about 5%.

[PhoSita]

Brutal.  A disappointing way for this season to end.  I was looking forward to what this team could do, albeit sans Hayward.

Still, with Theis already out for the year and Smart probably done as well, it makes sense to play it safe with Kyrie.  They made the mistake last season of letting their star guard push through injury to play in the postseason, and look how that worked out for the player.

We'll still get to see Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Horford play a lot of minutes in the playoffs, which should be entertaining, even if they struggle to make it out of Round 1.


Next year: Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Horford.

I don't care who's coming off the bench; that's a team to be excited about, as long as those 5 guys are healthy.

And therein lies the rub. I put the odds of all 5 of those guys staying relatively healthy all next season at about 5%.

I mean, all next season?  82 games?  Yeah, that's unlikely.

But how about, "60+ regular season games each and ready to go for the playoffs"?

I think the odds of that are relatively decent. 

[celticsclay]

I will reiterate that Danny Ainge is getting WAY too much of a pass for trading for a guy with a pretty serious, and known, knee problem.

Will be right back, just need to check on current status of the sky!

Let me just throw this scenario out for you:

Boston, with Kyrie out for the season due to a pre-existing injury, gets bounced in the 1st round of the playoffs.

Cleveland, with players acquired from the Kyrie trade (albeit following a second trade), makes the NBA Finals.

Cleveland then lands a top-5 pick via the BK 18 pick acquired in the Kyrie trade, and nets a young player that eventually becomes a multiple time All Star.

Is the above mentioned scenario really "sky is falling" likelihood?  I think that has a reasonable chance of occurring.  If that happens, is Boston not a clear loser in the Kyrie trade?

Yes this is a sky is falling point of view. The Brooklyn Nets pick currently has a 15% chance of landing in the top 3. Given the fact that they play us in the final game of the season and play a chicago team that has benched half their roster, it is likely their final odds of getting a top 3 fall to 8.2%. So that first part is definitely a very unlikely worst possible outcome scenario.

Cleveland has made the finals ever year since they brought Lebron back. If they do the same thing again this year, how does that have any impact on whether the trade is good or not?

Why are people so desparate to make some far flung argument about how we could lose this trade? If Irving isn't the same player ever again i would say we lost the trade because 60 games of Irving is bad value for a 7 or 8th pick. However, everything else has come up roses for the Celtics. Thomas and Crowder actively made the Cavs worse in their time on their roster. They sabotaged them and cost them home court advantage in several series which will significantly decrease their title chances. They also have acquired injury prone players with low ceilings that prevent them from adding a legit star to their team that would enable them to compete with the Rockets and Warriors of the world (and next year also us). So without these sky is falling panic scenarios we did great. Enjoy it! It won't hurt ya!

[PhoSita]

I will reiterate that Danny Ainge is getting WAY too much of a pass for trading for a guy with a pretty serious, and known, knee problem.

Will be right back, just need to check on current status of the sky!

Let me just throw this scenario out for you:

Boston, with Kyrie out for the season due to a pre-existing injury, gets bounced in the 1st round of the playoffs.

Cleveland, with players acquired from the Kyrie trade (albeit following a second trade), makes the NBA Finals.

Cleveland then lands a top-5 pick via the BK 18 pick acquired in the Kyrie trade, and nets a young player that eventually becomes a multiple time All Star.

Is the above mentioned scenario really "sky is falling" likelihood?  I think that has a reasonable chance of occurring.  If that happens, is Boston not a clear loser in the Kyrie trade?

Right now the odds of the Nets' pick landing top 3 is only 15%. 

Given the statistics about the history of top 7 picks turning into multiple time All-Stars, it doesn't actually seem like there's a very significant chance of the scenario you outline occurring.


I am 100% OK with the notion that the Celts traded, effectively, BRK 18 and Jae Crowder for Kyrie Irving, even though he won't be able to participate in the playoffs for year 1.

The first year with Kyrie went pretty well.  I'm feeling pretty confident about how he'll do next year with Hayward back and Brown / Tatum continuing to mature.  I am confident he'll want to re-sign here as well.

Meanwhile, that BRK may very well turn into a player who is (a) a long term project and (b) not a perennial All-Star.  Isaiah Thomas, sadly, may never be an All-Star again, given how he's looked in trying to come back from the hip injury.

[blink]

Brutal.  A disappointing way for this season to end.  I was looking forward to what this team could do, albeit sans Hayward.

Still, with Theis already out for the year and Smart probably done as well, it makes sense to play it safe with Kyrie.  They made the mistake last season of letting their star guard push through injury to play in the postseason, and look how that worked out for the player.

We'll still get to see Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Horford play a lot of minutes in the playoffs, which should be entertaining, even if they struggle to make it out of Round 1.


Next year: Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Horford.

I don't care who's coming off the bench; that's a team to be excited about, as long as those 5 guys are healthy.

And therein lies the rub. I put the odds of all 5 of those guys staying relatively healthy all next season at about 5%.

I mean, all next season?  82 games?  Yeah, that's unlikely.

But how about, "60+ regular season games each and ready to go for the playoffs"?

I think the odds of that are relatively decent.

This is exactly what I was going to say.  It is unlikely that the starters miss no games, that just doesn't happen in the NBA.  But if our 5 starters avoid major injuries and can play 60-70 games each we will be in great shape, and that happening is fairly likely.

[celticsclay]

I will reiterate that Danny Ainge is getting WAY too much of a pass for trading for a guy with a pretty serious, and known, knee problem.

Will be right back, just need to check on current status of the sky!

Let me just throw this scenario out for you:

Boston, with Kyrie out for the season due to a pre-existing injury, gets bounced in the 1st round of the playoffs.

Cleveland, with players acquired from the Kyrie trade (albeit following a second trade), makes the NBA Finals.

Cleveland then lands a top-5 pick via the BK 18 pick acquired in the Kyrie trade, and nets a young player that eventually becomes a multiple time All Star.

Is the above mentioned scenario really "sky is falling" likelihood?  I think that has a reasonable chance of occurring.  If that happens, is Boston not a clear loser in the Kyrie trade?

Right now the odds of the Nets' pick landing top 3 is only 15%. 

Given the statistics about the history of top 7 picks turning into multiple time All-Stars, it doesn't actually seem like there's a very significant chance of the scenario you outline occurring.


I am 100% OK with the notion that the Celts traded, effectively, BRK 18 and Jae Crowder for Kyrie Irving, even though he won't be able to participate in the playoffs for year 1.

The first year with Kyrie went pretty well.  I'm feeling pretty confident about how he'll do next year with Hayward back and Brown / Tatum continuing to mature.  I am confident he'll want to re-sign here as well.

Meanwhile, that BRK may very well turn into a player who is (a) a long term project and (b) not a perennial All-Star.  Isaiah Thomas, sadly, may never be an All-Star again, given how he's looked in trying to come back from the hip injury.

We better throw out Allen, Yabs, Nader, etc our final game of the season against the Nets given our thin roster in advance of the playoffs. The Nets should win that game. I think there is a reasonable chance they end up 9th

[RJ87]

So according to my hand surgeon (who has operated on Nick Chubb, and our own Malcolm Mitchell), in a small proportion of patients (like 5%), metal hardware can cause irritation.  Usually it's benign, but it can lead to tendon rupture.  So they remove it 6 months - 1 year after surgery.

He's been playing with this for how many years?  It seems highly unlikely to me that he was at risk of tendon rupture -- that probably would've already happened.  So it's likely he chose to get surgery now because of irritation (e.g., it felt uncomfy) to ... protect himself from the small likelihood of something more serious?  Okay.  Good for you.  I assume if Hayward was healthy, he'd be playing now.  Like IT did.  Stinks, but expected -- gotta protect the brand.  His father has a lot to do with his decisions... I've read he was central to Kyrie's trade demand.

So the questionable surgery results in what's most likely a staph infection.  This just happened to me.  It's brutal.  But they caught it quickly, and the bone was already well-healed, so not a big deal.  He'll take an antibiotic.  They'll remove the screws.  He'll watch the playoffs.  But... should he have gotten the initial surgery? Literature shows a very small risk of serious damage.  Sure seems like a case of a player putting himself before the team.  Was it a good decision? Yeah, probably...  especially playing for Ainge.  But it's also unfortunate.  I miss IT... and if the roles were reversed, we'd be making a deep playoff run again.  Bird and McHale played through injury until their wheels fell off.  I miss that era.  Welcome to the modern NBA.

He was always going to have the second surgery to remove the hardware - Danny also said he'd need a cleanup procedure before this all went down. The hope was that it could wait until this off season or next. Obviously, the irritation became too much - he's had a few knee and quad issues this season. No one could've predicted an infection, that's worst case scenario. But that's the risk of cutting the body open.

As far as people playing through injury, McHale still walks with a significant limp. IT will miss out on a substantial payday because he put off a surgery he should've had a year ago. It's great to commend these guys for "playing through it", but at some point the pros just don't outweigh the cons.

[SHAQATTACK]

infection seed to the foreign materiial in his knee .   All that hardware has to come out now . Infection is bad stuff around bone. 

Good news is once he gets shed of the screws and infection ,  his knee will be good again , he ll feel great one day ., he can get back to top form during the summer.

So Hayward and Irving can work the heck out of each other getting back to exact their revenge on Lebron ...

I m just happy to have the Celtics in at least one round of playoffs.

Im not gonna get too low ....Stevens is the best underdog coach ever. 

[mctyson]

I will reiterate that Danny Ainge is getting WAY too much of a pass for trading for a guy with a pretty serious, and known, knee problem.

Jury is out on that assessment. Kyrie played great for 60 games. If he never matches that level of performance in future you will be right. If he does, it will go down as a solid trade. Of course unless Cavs get lucky with BKN pick.

What I highlighted here is the problem.

Danny knew this could happen, no doubt, and risked the BK 18 pick for him.  Right now that is not looking very good.

This seems very short-sighted and fails to recognize the NBA will continue to exist beyond just this season.  That trade was always more about setting the team up for a brighter future than an immediate success.

OK - Kyrie has one year left on his deal, and may be coming off a major knee operation with no guarantee of being able to perform at a top-level, physically, because of this.

How is that for looking into the future?

[Celtics4ever]

What a season!!!!! Well, our lads carried themselves well and should continue to do so the rest of the season.

[mctyson]

I will reiterate that Danny Ainge is getting WAY too much of a pass for trading for a guy with a pretty serious, and known, knee problem.

Will be right back, just need to check on current status of the sky!

Let me just throw this scenario out for you:

Boston, with Kyrie out for the season due to a pre-existing injury, gets bounced in the 1st round of the playoffs.

Cleveland, with players acquired from the Kyrie trade (albeit following a second trade), makes the NBA Finals.

Cleveland then lands a top-5 pick via the BK 18 pick acquired in the Kyrie trade, and nets a young player that eventually becomes a multiple time All Star.

Is the above mentioned scenario really "sky is falling" likelihood?  I think that has a reasonable chance of occurring.  If that happens, is Boston not a clear loser in the Kyrie trade?

Yes this is a sky is falling point of view. The Brooklyn Nets pick currently has a 15% chance of landing in the top 3. Given the fact that they play us in the final game of the season and play a chicago team that has benched half their roster, it is likely their final odds of getting a top 3 fall to 8.2%. So that first part is definitely a very unlikely worst possible outcome scenario.

Cleveland has made the finals ever year since they brought Lebron back. If they do the same thing again this year, how does that have any impact on whether the trade is good or not?

Why are people so desparate to make some far flung argument about how we could lose this trade? If Irving isn't the same player ever again i would say we lost the trade because 60 games of Irving is bad value for a 7 or 8th pick. However, everything else has come up roses for the Celtics. Thomas and Crowder actively made the Cavs worse in their time on their roster. They sabotaged them and cost them home court advantage in several series which will significantly decrease their title chances. They also have acquired injury prone players with low ceilings that prevent them from adding a legit star to their team that would enable them to compete with the Rockets and Warriors of the world (and next year also us). So without these sky is falling panic scenarios we did great. Enjoy it! It won't hurt ya!

First - I am not desperate to say the Cs lost the trade.  I root for the Celtics and want them to win the trade.

But the reality is, as much the homers on this board do not want to see it, that Kyrie Irving has a serious knee injury (including a possible bone infection) that Ainge knew about before the trade.  They traded a possible top-5 pick for him, which that BK pick still is.