Magette and Posey: Theory on the standstill

[indeedproceed]

Pure speculation and opinion, but

I think Corey Maggette will set the market for James Posey. From what I've been reading, the tiers for at the 3 go
1. Josh Smith
2. Iggy, Deng
3. Maggette, Posey
4. Childress (he'd be higher but for inexperience, and he may get more money anyway due to age), Pietrus
5. Azuibuike, R Davis
6. Everybody else (Devean George, Bonzi Wells, etc.)

Since Smith, Deng and Iggy are all restricted FA's commanding sizable contracts regardless, the FA scrum really starts at tier 3. Maggette has an outside shot at getting more than the MLE, Posey is almost guaranteed to have an offer at the full MLE, but years seem to be the holdup with him. That considered, its pretty likely that they will sign for pretty comparable sums of money.

I think the reason we haven't signed posey is because we're waiting on Maggette to make a decision before we give Posey our true offer. I also think thats a pretty common theme around the league. Posey's agent on the other hand probably realizes that years will go up for his client as the need for him becomes more urgent. With Maggette off the market, teams needing a starting 3 or very capable "gem" in their second unit will have less leverage, possibly inclining them to increase the years. Mark Bartelstein has been pretty respectful in saying "The celtics haven't given us what we want...yet" There is no talk about bad feelings, or loyalties, because he knows he'll get a better deal than the sub 5 million per we're offering right now as our options dwindle.

As I said its all speculation, but what do you think?

[bbc3341]

Can't argue with your analysis - I wonder if Ainge is moving into Patriots mode though where he just won't pay over the value he sets for a player - now, obviously he'd done it in the past, Scal, Blount, etc. But maybe success is wizening the man?

[indeedproceed]

Can't argue with your analysis - I wonder if Ainge is moving into Patriots mode though where he just won't pay over the value he sets for a player - now, obviously he'd done it in the past, Scal, Blount, etc. But maybe success is wizening the man?

While I was writing the post above, that thought occurred to me too. Also, with Danny's 'brain doctor' ways, you'd have to believe that he could go out and find a guy who fit the mental profile Danny thinks we need to win, has the ego to accept he's not going to get more than 20 mins off the bench, and the desire to play defense as hard as we need to, and all for the money Danny thinks he's worth.

Aging guys who sign full MLE contracts for 3+ years almost never work out.

[bbc3341]

Can't argue with your analysis - I wonder if Ainge is moving into Patriots mode though where he just won't pay over the value he sets for a player - now, obviously he'd done it in the past, Scal, Blount, etc. But maybe success is wizening the man?

While I was writing the post above, that thought occurred to me too. Also, with Danny's 'brain doctor' ways, you'd have to believe that he could go out and find a guy who fit the mental profile Danny thinks we need to win, has the ego to accept he's not going to get more than 20 mins off the bench, and the desire to play defense as hard as we need to, and all for the money Danny thinks he's worth.

Aging guys who sign full MLE contracts for 3+ years almost never work out.

Great points (TP) did Scal rate high on the brain scale? I know Ray Allen does but I wonder what the brain stuff says about Posey or Magette? At any rate, this is cool to be in the position where adding a player is a matter of figuring out how they'll fit in with another run at the championship - still can't believe the C's are here compared to this time last year!

[clover]

I think the reason we haven't signed posey is because we're waiting on Maggette to make a decision before we give Posey our true offer. I also think thats a pretty common theme around the league. Posey's agent on the other hand probably realizes that years will go up for his client as the need for him becomes more urgent. With Maggette off the market, teams needing a starting 3 or very capable "gem" in their second unit will have less leverage, possibly inclining them to increase the years. Mark Bartelstein has been pretty respectful in saying "The celtics haven't given us what we want...yet" There is no talk about bad feelings, or loyalties, because he knows he'll get a better deal than the sub 5 million per we're offering right now as our options dwindle.

As I said its all speculation, but what do you think?

JR Giddens is another Bartelstein client, and I suspect his being held out of the mini camp was the result of Bartelstein trying to shake just that kind of offer out of Danny this last week.

[PRIDE]

It seems like Danny is trying to use part of the MLE to sign Bill Walker or  some FA. I think He gave Posey a low ball offer so he can use the other money elsewhere. I think Mark Bartelstein is set on him getting paid the full MLE. I think Posey will take the 3 year full MLE deal on the 9th(or whenever they can sign). Its been said he wants a 4 or 5 year deal but I think he's going to stay with us. Posey was an emotional leader this year and I doubt he would want to play anywhere else after last season.

[indeedproceed]

JR Giddens is another Bartelstein client, and I suspect his being held out of the mini camp was the result of Bartelstein trying to shake just that kind of offer out of Danny this last week.

Draft Express lists Giddens agent as Aaron Mintz. A lackey of Bartelstein?

Another point, Jeff just posted a blog entry
http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3547&Itemid=189

That kind of backs up what Im saying. Maggette will decide, and after that, if he doesn't choose green, Posey might have the leverage to get the offer he wants out of the Celtics.

It seems like Danny is trying to use part of the MLE to sign Bill Walker or  some FA. I think He gave Posey a low ball offer so he can use the other money elsewhere. I think Mark Bartelstein is set on him getting paid the full MLE. I think Posey will take the 3 year full MLE deal on the 9th(or whenever they can sign). Its been said he wants a 4 or 5 year deal but I think he's going to stay with us. Posey was an emotional leader this year and I doubt he would want to play anywhere else after last season.

I hope Danny can set aside some cash to put it towards Bill walker so we will have his bird rights. Posey won't sign for less than the MLE, its been reported that he's got offers of 5 years at the full MLE. Thats ludicrous right there.

[Robb]

When you say Azuibuike, do you mean Mickael Pietrus?  Or do you not care for Pietrus/really like Azubuike?  They're both available this offseason, (Azubuike is a restricted free agent but Pietrus is unrestricted) but I'd put Pietrus on that list right below Maggette and Posey and above Ricky.

[indeedproceed]

When you say Azuibuike, do you mean Mickael Pietrus?  Or do you not care for Pietrus/really like Azubuike?  They're both available this offseason, (Azubuike is a restricted free agent but Pietrus is unrestricted) but I'd put Pietrus on that list right below Maggette and Posey and above Ricky.

My reasoning was that Pietrus was more was more of a 2/3 as opposed to a 3/2 or 3/4, if that makes sense. But I think you're right, Pietrus goes on the list.

[PRIDE]

From who though? A lot of teams are already financially strapped and they cant afford to pay Posey and the luxury tax. What team is going to give him an extra 13 mil after his contribution falls off. 13 mil to take a key Celtics player away is pretty steep for any team out there. Thats not even including the luxury tax, which most top tier teams are in.

I heard the Lakers didn't have much flexibility with their payroll and they wouldn't be making any large acquisitions. It seems like the Spurs are willing to spend a little this offseason but would they spend that kind of money on Posey? I doubt Posey would to a non-contender do who is going to give him that kind of deal?

[indeedproceed]

From who though? A lot of teams are already financially strapped and they cant afford to pay Posey and the luxury tax. What team is going to give him an extra 13 mil after his contribution falls off. 13 mil to take a key Celtics player away is pretty steep for any team out there. Thats not even including the luxury tax, which most top tier teams are in.

I heard the Lakers didn't have much flexibility with their payroll and they wouldn't be making any large acquisitions. It seems like the Spurs are willing to spend a little this offseason but would they spend that kind of money on Posey? I doubt Posey would to a non-contender do who is going to give him that kind of deal?

Cleveland, Golden State both have the MLE or cap room for him, also look at the Hornets, who are really just one peripheral piece away. I think he'll have takers for MLE and 4-5 years. some team usually steps up and makes a mistake during free agency.

[earl]

Can't argue with your analysis - I wonder if Ainge is moving into Patriots mode though where he just won't pay over the value he sets for a player - now, obviously he'd done it in the past, Scal, Blount, etc. But maybe success is wizening the man?

I doubt he's setting a hard limit and just won't go over for Posey, but I think he just sees the money that it is going to cost to get Posey back and views it as a question of slightly overpaying for Posey (but probably worth doing) vs. getting a slight steal for the same money on a guy like Maggette.

If Maggette drops to the Spurs, Posey just becomes the next best option for that kind of money. It's kind of like lowballing on a nicer house on the off chance you get a really deal before settling on the more realistic one, knowing that the latter isn't really a firesale situation that is going to sell underneath you.

[BrickJames]

My theory is that we haven't signed anyone because of the league-wide moratorium on free agent signings until the 9th.

[indeedproceed]

My theory is that we haven't signed anyone because of the league-wide moratorium on free agent signings until the 9th.

Right.

Let me rephrase: Theory on why there is still speculation on who we're going to sign, Maggette, Posey or other.

I understand the july 9th moratorium, but people can commit verbally without signing papers. Baron Davis did it, big to-do, I heard.

[gpds69]

Can someone please explain to me how its possible to sign both of these players. I dont get it at all? I thought would could only use the full MLE on one player...so if we did...how would we pay for the other??? Say we maggette the fulle MLE..then how do we pay posey? Help please!






Edit: No all caps.
-IP