What Danny is really doing and why we should stop jumping to conclusions

[vinnie]

Doc Rivers made Boston attractive and the Celtics still have not gotten a top flight free agent.

A great climate makes a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

Low taxes make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

A great nightlife with places open into the wee hours of the morning make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

So then your Doc Rivers point is moot. We got Courtney Lee recently thanks to Doc. Woopty doo. I understand everything else you're saying but ultimately, guys want to play a good brand of basketball around great guys. Again, I don't think DA has even BEGUN to play out his hand. I say keep waiting and see what we end up with.

No, that is my point. Even a guy who most players would want to play for could not attract free agents here. And, that really was the only thing Boston had going for it to attract those free agents. Now it has nothing, IMHO.

[j804]

Doc Rivers made Boston attractive and the Celtics still have not gotten a top flight free agent.

A great climate makes a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

Low taxes make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

A great nightlife with places open into the wee hours of the morning make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

So then your Doc Rivers point is moot. We got Courtney Lee recently thanks to Doc. Woopty doo. I understand everything else you're saying but ultimately, guys want to play a good brand of basketball around great guys. Again, I don't think DA has even BEGUN to play out his hand. I say keep waiting and see what we end up with.

No, that is my point. Even a guy who most players would want to play for could not attract free agents here. And, that really was the only thing Boston had going for it to attract those free agents. Now it has nothing, IMHO.

I think in the past guys looked at us as "old" with not a big window to compete for a championship. I think if you had Rondo not injured and cap space to absorb another big FA we'd have guys willing to come here. Ainge is working toward that, no?

[kgainez]

Doc Rivers made Boston attractive and the Celtics still have not gotten a top flight free agent.

A great climate makes a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

Low taxes make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

A great nightlife with places open into the wee hours of the morning make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

So then your Doc Rivers point is moot. We got Courtney Lee recently thanks to Doc. Woopty doo. I understand everything else you're saying but ultimately, guys want to play a good brand of basketball around great guys. Again, I don't think DA has even BEGUN to play out his hand. I say keep waiting and see what we end up with.

No, that is my point. Even a guy who most players would want to play for could not attract free agents here. And, that really was the only thing Boston had going for it to attract those free agents. Now it has nothing, IMHO.

But if Rivers wasn't attracting people, then try something new right? You want to play with a coach but the brand of basketball isn't all that exciting or cultivated for young guys? I don't think so. Again, this is Danny's attempt to be attractive.

It's like, if your points are true, then people shoulda wanted to go to LAC and the GSW before they started winning right? Good weather, fun clubs, etc.? But they didn't because they were losers and didn't play a conducive style of ball.

If Danny can build a team structured around a top 10 PG/all star like Rondo...maybe transform a guy like Green into an all star (stretch) or even bring in a guy that's an all star who wants to be here (think Josh Smith)...then you have 2 of a possible big 3. And the way the nba is going now, people want to team up and make runs. That's just what I'm betting. Not saying I'm right.

But if Doc could barely do it, let's try to flip it. Let's try to be fun and competitive. And if we go 41-41 this year while making some noise, we could get a guy to come in and make us better. We could trade for that guy. And riding a young guy for a couple years in his prime is better than running a couple of guys at the end and outside of their prime

[kgainez]

Doc Rivers made Boston attractive and the Celtics still have not gotten a top flight free agent.

A great climate makes a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

Low taxes make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

A great nightlife with places open into the wee hours of the morning make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

So then your Doc Rivers point is moot. We got Courtney Lee recently thanks to Doc. Woopty doo. I understand everything else you're saying but ultimately, guys want to play a good brand of basketball around great guys. Again, I don't think DA has even BEGUN to play out his hand. I say keep waiting and see what we end up with.

No, that is my point. Even a guy who most players would want to play for could not attract free agents here. And, that really was the only thing Boston had going for it to attract those free agents. Now it has nothing, IMHO.

I think in the past guys looked at us as "old" with not a big window to compete for a championship. I think if you had Rondo not injured and cap space to absorb another big FA we'd have guys willing to come here. Ainge is working toward that, no?

yea that's what i'm saying
Rondo and Jeff should start hitting their primes now...that'll last 3-5 years...you get a guy who can match that and you have a decent window of time. not just that, but you're playing a fun type of ball that people love.

that's ticket sales and that's free agents.

[aingeforthree]

I'm actually looking forward to this season. It might sound strange, but I'll enjoy the games better without the expectations of playoffs and "Beating the Heat". That's very nerve wrecking. That's why I'm glad I wasn't a Spurs or Heat fan...that was too much to take.

As long as I live, I will never, ever agree with or understand this kind of sentiment.

Nothing whatsoever good comes from losing. Nothing.

I could not agree with this statement more. I also could not disagree more with people who think Danny Ainge is some sort of genius. Did he make great deals to get KG and Benedict and to draft Rondo -- Yes. Beyond that the jury is out big time. And don't give me Avery Bradley who is so overrated on this blog it is laughable.

My guess is when Danny is done getting rid of the blood and guts and heart and soul of the Celtics this will be a 35-max win team next year. Hope we get to see guys like Jordan Crawford and Terrence Williams get a lot of playing time -- 

As far as the draft goes, as with any GM, he has had some great picks, some dogs, and the jury is out on the more recent picks who need more playing time to accurately determine their worth. For every good pick, I will give you JR Giddens, Troy Bell, Randy Foye, Gerald Green and Jujuan Johnson. Of course, all GMs have hits and misses and I have no idea where Ainge ranks in terms of his draft record.

Beyond that ?  How about Kendrick Perkins, Al Jefferson, Tony Allen, Delonte West ? How about acquiring James Posey when nobody else wanted him ?  or Eddie House ?

You had 22 years worth of obscurity and you want to dog him about late picks such as Giddens, etc. ?  After he brought you back from the dumps to actually compete for something since 08' ?

Come on man.

[vinnie]

I'm actually looking forward to this season. It might sound strange, but I'll enjoy the games better without the expectations of playoffs and "Beating the Heat". That's very nerve wrecking. That's why I'm glad I wasn't a Spurs or Heat fan...that was too much to take.

As long as I live, I will never, ever agree with or understand this kind of sentiment.

Nothing whatsoever good comes from losing. Nothing.

I could not agree with this statement more. I also could not disagree more with people who think Danny Ainge is some sort of genius. Did he make great deals to get KG and Benedict and to draft Rondo -- Yes. Beyond that the jury is out big time. And don't give me Avery Bradley who is so overrated on this blog it is laughable.

My guess is when Danny is done getting rid of the blood and guts and heart and soul of the Celtics this will be a 35-max win team next year. Hope we get to see guys like Jordan Crawford and Terrence Williams get a lot of playing time -- 

As far as the draft goes, as with any GM, he has had some great picks, some dogs, and the jury is out on the more recent picks who need more playing time to accurately determine their worth. For every good pick, I will give you JR Giddens, Troy Bell, Randy Foye, Gerald Green and Jujuan Johnson. Of course, all GMs have hits and misses and I have no idea where Ainge ranks in terms of his draft record.

Beyond that ?  How about Kendrick Perkins, Al Jefferson, Tony Allen, Delonte West ? How about acquiring James Posey when nobody else wanted him ?  or Eddie House ?

You had 22 years worth of obscurity and you want to dog him about late picks such as Giddens, etc. ?  After he brought you back from the dumps to actually compete for something since 08' ?

Come on man.

Hmmm. Didn't know Posey and House were drafted by Danny.

[vinnie]

Doc Rivers made Boston attractive and the Celtics still have not gotten a top flight free agent.

A great climate makes a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

Low taxes make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

A great nightlife with places open into the wee hours of the morning make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

So then your Doc Rivers point is moot. We got Courtney Lee recently thanks to Doc. Woopty doo. I understand everything else you're saying but ultimately, guys want to play a good brand of basketball around great guys. Again, I don't think DA has even BEGUN to play out his hand. I say keep waiting and see what we end up with.

No, that is my point. Even a guy who most players would want to play for could not attract free agents here. And, that really was the only thing Boston had going for it to attract those free agents. Now it has nothing, IMHO.

But if Rivers wasn't attracting people, then try something new right? You want to play with a coach but the brand of basketball isn't all that exciting or cultivated for young guys? I don't think so. Again, this is Danny's attempt to be attractive.

It's like, if your points are true, then people shoulda wanted to go to LAC and the GSW before they started winning right? Good weather, fun clubs, etc.? But they didn't because they were losers and didn't play a conducive style of ball.

If Danny can build a team structured around a top 10 PG/all star like Rondo...maybe transform a guy like Green into an all star (stretch) or even bring in a guy that's an all star who wants to be here (think Josh Smith)...then you have 2 of a possible big 3. And the way the nba is going now, people want to team up and make runs. That's just what I'm betting. Not saying I'm right.

But if Doc could barely do it, let's try to flip it. Let's try to be fun and competitive. And if we go 41-41 this year while making some noise, we could get a guy to come in and make us better. We could trade for that guy. And riding a young guy for a couple years in his prime is better than running a couple of guys at the end and outside of their prime

I understand what you are saying. In my opinion: Jeff Green will not be an all star, Josh Smith will never be part of anyone's big three, and it is a crap shoot with a draft pick. Where I do agree is that Rondo could definitely be part of a big three. As I have said in other posts, my main problem with all of this stuff is that for an older guy, it makes pro sports much less interesting. I cheer for certain players as much as I cheer for the laundry, and I miss the days when guys stayed around for their whole career. I am not a big fan of this era when you need a scorecard every year to figure out who is on your team. It is reality and is not going to change, but I don't have to like it. I will just watch a lot less of professional sports.

[aingeforthree]

I'm actually looking forward to this season. It might sound strange, but I'll enjoy the games better without the expectations of playoffs and "Beating the Heat". That's very nerve wrecking. That's why I'm glad I wasn't a Spurs or Heat fan...that was too much to take.

As long as I live, I will never, ever agree with or understand this kind of sentiment.

Nothing whatsoever good comes from losing. Nothing.

I could not agree with this statement more. I also could not disagree more with people who think Danny Ainge is some sort of genius. Did he make great deals to get KG and Benedict and to draft Rondo -- Yes. Beyond that the jury is out big time. And don't give me Avery Bradley who is so overrated on this blog it is laughable.

My guess is when Danny is done getting rid of the blood and guts and heart and soul of the Celtics this will be a 35-max win team next year. Hope we get to see guys like Jordan Crawford and Terrence Williams get a lot of playing time -- 

As far as the draft goes, as with any GM, he has had some great picks, some dogs, and the jury is out on the more recent picks who need more playing time to accurately determine their worth. For every good pick, I will give you JR Giddens, Troy Bell, Randy Foye, Gerald Green and Jujuan Johnson. Of course, all GMs have hits and misses and I have no idea where Ainge ranks in terms of his draft record.

Beyond that ?  How about Kendrick Perkins, Al Jefferson, Tony Allen, Delonte West ? How about acquiring James Posey when nobody else wanted him ?  or Eddie House ?

You had 22 years worth of obscurity and you want to dog him about late picks such as Giddens, etc. ?  After he brought you back from the dumps to actually compete for something since 08' ?

Come on man.

Hmmm. Didn't know Posey and House were drafted by Danny.

They weren't. I said "acquired".  Never said he drafted them.

[celticinorlando]

Danny is dumping salary. There is nothing more to this

[CoachBo]

I'm actually looking forward to this season. It might sound strange, but I'll enjoy the games better without the expectations of playoffs and "Beating the Heat". That's very nerve wrecking. That's why I'm glad I wasn't a Spurs or Heat fan...that was too much to take.

As long as I live, I will never, ever agree with or understand this kind of sentiment.

Nothing whatsoever good comes from losing. Nothing.

I could not agree with this statement more. I also could not disagree more with people who think Danny Ainge is some sort of genius. Did he make great deals to get KG and Benedict and to draft Rondo -- Yes. Beyond that the jury is out big time. And don't give me Avery Bradley who is so overrated on this blog it is laughable.

My guess is when Danny is done getting rid of the blood and guts and heart and soul of the Celtics this will be a 35-max win team next year. Hope we get to see guys like Jordan Crawford and Terrence Williams get a lot of playing time -- 

As far as the draft goes, as with any GM, he has had some great picks, some dogs, and the jury is out on the more recent picks who need more playing time to accurately determine their worth. For every good pick, I will give you JR Giddens, Troy Bell, Randy Foye, Gerald Green and Jujuan Johnson. Of course, all GMs have hits and misses and I have no idea where Ainge ranks in terms of his draft record.

Beyond that ?  How about Kendrick Perkins, Al Jefferson, Tony Allen, Delonte West ? How about acquiring James Posey when nobody else wanted him ?  or Eddie House ?

You had 22 years worth of obscurity and you want to dog him about late picks such as Giddens, etc. ?  After he brought you back from the dumps to actually compete for something since 08' ?

Come on man.

Hmmm. Didn't know Posey and House were drafted by Danny.

They weren't. I said "acquired".  Never said he drafted them.

There isn't a star - or a suitable reacquire right now in our coming bombed-out state - on that list.

Ainge is no drafting genius. Not by a LONG shot.

Now, this is definitely Camelot for those people who are absolutely fascinated by conflating ineptitude and mediocrity.

I was around the Net in the days when post after post was devoted to Gerald Green's certain stardom - primarily because he was a cool dunker.

Not to mention the pending greatness of Brandon Hunter, Orien Greene, et al?

How did that all work out?

It's a sad time. This team is going to be irrelevant, uninteresting and terrible for quite awhile. Great franchises retool on the fly.

Sad to face the reality of what we are.

[aingeforthree]

I'm actually looking forward to this season. It might sound strange, but I'll enjoy the games better without the expectations of playoffs and "Beating the Heat". That's very nerve wrecking. That's why I'm glad I wasn't a Spurs or Heat fan...that was too much to take.

As long as I live, I will never, ever agree with or understand this kind of sentiment.

Nothing whatsoever good comes from losing. Nothing.

I could not agree with this statement more. I also could not disagree more with people who think Danny Ainge is some sort of genius. Did he make great deals to get KG and Benedict and to draft Rondo -- Yes. Beyond that the jury is out big time. And don't give me Avery Bradley who is so overrated on this blog it is laughable.

My guess is when Danny is done getting rid of the blood and guts and heart and soul of the Celtics this will be a 35-max win team next year. Hope we get to see guys like Jordan Crawford and Terrence Williams get a lot of playing time -- 

As far as the draft goes, as with any GM, he has had some great picks, some dogs, and the jury is out on the more recent picks who need more playing time to accurately determine their worth. For every good pick, I will give you JR Giddens, Troy Bell, Randy Foye, Gerald Green and Jujuan Johnson. Of course, all GMs have hits and misses and I have no idea where Ainge ranks in terms of his draft record.

Beyond that ?  How about Kendrick Perkins, Al Jefferson, Tony Allen, Delonte West ? How about acquiring James Posey when nobody else wanted him ?  or Eddie House ?

You had 22 years worth of obscurity and you want to dog him about late picks such as Giddens, etc. ?  After he brought you back from the dumps to actually compete for something since 08' ?

Come on man.

Hmmm. Didn't know Posey and House were drafted by Danny.

They weren't. I said "acquired".  Never said he drafted them.

There isn't a star - or a suitable reacquire right now in our bombed-out state - on that list.

Ainge is no drafting genius. Not by a LONG shot.

Now, this is definitely Camelot for those people who are absolutely fascinated by conflating ineptitude and mediocrity.

I was around the Net in the days when post after post was devoted to Gerald Green's certain stardom - primarily because he was a cool dunker.

Not to mention the pending greatness of Brandon Hunter, Orien Greene, et al?

How did that all work out?

It's a sad time. This team is going to be irrelevant, uninteresting and terrible for quite awhile.

When you win as much as Ainge & the Celtics have, you don't get top 10 picks. You get middle of the road picks & you make the most of where you're drafting from.  Nobody said he's a genius.  Those are your words.  He's definitely done well with where the Celtics have drafted, that's for darn sure.

i.e. Rondo

With the top 10 pick he did have, he acquired Ray Allen.  How did that all work out ?  Yeah, exactly.

[KJR]

Caterwauling and Mewling

Free Agents - I'm not sure about the details of each signing, but Posey, House, Cassell, Wallace and Shaq all came to Boston.  Some worked out great, some were injured.  They were all highly desirable signings prior to their arrival.  How much cap space did we have each year to sign a top flight free agent?  Almost none.  How many open starter positions?  None.  The only free agent of any consequence during the last six years that we had practically signed who went elsewhere was David West.  Which other top flight free agent was deciding between Boston and another city and chose elsewhere during the past six years?  Dwight and CP3 were traded in highly engineered deals.  It wasn't our call.  LeBron, Wade and Bosh were going to Miami.  When we were a legitimate title contender 08-11, we got many of the most desirable role players that weren't looking for big money.

Drafting - Ainge has been top five.  He's made a half dozen nice picks and he's whiffed on an equal number when better talent was available later.  But consider that he was trying to fill needs in the late 20s, and he was doing so to get Doc players he wanted.  New coach, new system, new needs ... probably different types of picks going forward.  Drafting has been pretty good.

Doc - Good coach.  Good guy.  Time for a change.  Best for him.  Best for Rondo.  Best for the team.  A win-win all around.  I don't blame him.  I don't blame Ainge or Rondo.  Sometimes high-performing people change jobs and it is often for the best all the way around.  Surprisingly mature decision from everyone.

Pierce - Keep him and see where you are at the trade deadline.  A trade to a contender should be available then with better compensation than now.

Garnett - Keep him.

Shaw - Don't know much about his coaching ability.  He seems to be knowledgeable and yet relaxed.  That's what Rondo, Sully and Green need.  After Doc's drill sergeant ways, it's time for a little more patience as the team develops.

Performance - The team has performed about as well as could've been hoped during the past six years.  Better than every other team in the league except LA and Miami.  And the only reason we weren't even better (KG in 09, Perk in 10, Shaq in 11, AB and Green in 12) was injuries.  With a little luck we might have had 2 or 3 more championships.  2010 for sure, 2009 and 2011 maybe, 2012 long-shot.  A better performance overall than San Antonio, Chicago, OKC or any team other than Miami and LA.

I've enjoyed watching the team the past six years (and the past 40) and I'm looking forward to the future.

I'm just not sure what all the crying is about.

[mmmmm]

Doc Rivers made Boston attractive and the Celtics still have not gotten a top flight free agent.

A great climate makes a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

Low taxes make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

A great nightlife with places open into the wee hours of the morning make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

A big payday makes a city attractive to a top tier free agent.

When was the last time the Celtics had a lot of free agent $$ available?

Oh, like, forever ago ...

[aingeforthree]

I'm actually looking forward to this season. It might sound strange, but I'll enjoy the games better without the expectations of playoffs and "Beating the Heat". That's very nerve wrecking. That's why I'm glad I wasn't a Spurs or Heat fan...that was too much to take.

As long as I live, I will never, ever agree with or understand this kind of sentiment.

Nothing whatsoever good comes from losing. Nothing.

I could not agree with this statement more. I also could not disagree more with people who think Danny Ainge is some sort of genius. Did he make great deals to get KG and Benedict and to draft Rondo -- Yes. Beyond that the jury is out big time. And don't give me Avery Bradley who is so overrated on this blog it is laughable.

My guess is when Danny is done getting rid of the blood and guts and heart and soul of the Celtics this will be a 35-max win team next year. Hope we get to see guys like Jordan Crawford and Terrence Williams get a lot of playing time -- 

As far as the draft goes, as with any GM, he has had some great picks, some dogs, and the jury is out on the more recent picks who need more playing time to accurately determine their worth. For every good pick, I will give you JR Giddens, Troy Bell, Randy Foye, Gerald Green and Jujuan Johnson. Of course, all GMs have hits and misses and I have no idea where Ainge ranks in terms of his draft record.

Beyond that ?  How about Kendrick Perkins, Al Jefferson, Tony Allen, Delonte West ? How about acquiring James Posey when nobody else wanted him ?  or Eddie House ?

You had 22 years worth of obscurity and you want to dog him about late picks such as Giddens, etc. ?  After he brought you back from the dumps to actually compete for something since 08' ?

Come on man.

Hmmm. Didn't know Posey and House were drafted by Danny.

They weren't. I said "acquired".  Never said he drafted them.

There isn't a star - or a suitable reacquire right now in our coming bombed-out state - on that list.

Ainge is no drafting genius. Not by a LONG shot.

Now, this is definitely Camelot for those people who are absolutely fascinated by conflating ineptitude and mediocrity.

I was around the Net in the days when post after post was devoted to Gerald Green's certain stardom - primarily because he was a cool dunker.

Not to mention the pending greatness of Brandon Hunter, Orien Greene, et al?

How did that all work out?

It's a sad time. This team is going to be irrelevant, uninteresting and terrible for quite awhile. Great franchises retool on the fly.

Sad to face the reality of what we are.

Sounds to me like you were expecting a little too much there with the #56 (Hunter, 2nd round, #56 overall) & #53 (Greene, 2nd round, #53 overall) picks of the draft.  I like your high expectations though.

[kgainez]

Doc Rivers made Boston attractive and the Celtics still have not gotten a top flight free agent.

A great climate makes a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

Low taxes make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

A great nightlife with places open into the wee hours of the morning make a city attractive to top tier free agents -- forget about that one.

A big payday makes a city attractive to a top tier free agent.

When was the last time the Celtics had a lot of free agent $$ available?

Oh, like, forever ago ...

that, too. and getting rid of these contracts can certainly help out.