Rajon Rondo vs. Devin Harris

[Roy Hobbs]

A lot of people on this blog talk about Rondo being a top-five point guard, and a top-two or -three "young" point guard.  Often, the names you'll see listed above Rondo are as follows:

1. CP3
2. Deron
3. Rose (maybe)
4. Parker (maybe)
5. Rondo

I'm curious as to why Devis Harris is constantly left out of these discussions.  Looking at their numbers, Harris seems to compare favorably to Rondo:

Rondo: 11.9 pts, 5.2 reb, 8.2 ast, 2.6 to, 1.9 spg, .514 eFG% (.375 on jumpers), .543 TS%

Harris: 21.3 pts, 3.3 reb, 6.9 ast, 3.1 to, 1.7 spg, .469 eFG% (.419 on jumpers), .563 TS%

Harris scores 10 more points, and only averages 1.3 less assists.  The two players are almost at the same efficiency, and from observation (rather than statistics) both players play similar defense.  Why, then, is he overlooked in the discussion of good young point guards?

Harris' contract may be an interesting one for the Celtics to look at when determining Rondo's value.  Harris made $7.8 million in his first year, and his total contract is 5 years, $43 million.  I think that would be a very reasonable deal for both sides.

[PosImpos]

I think Rondo and Harris are both very good but they are very different.  Harris is more of a scoring point guard with good shooting, while Rondo is a defensive pass first point guard.  They are both very quick, though.

I agree that Harris probably is a good person to look at for contract comparison; however I think though Harris might not be a better player, he might actually deserve more money because he is not an offensive liability the way Rondo is, and he has already been an All-Star (obviously Harris' contract was negotiated before he was an All-Star).

[wdleehi]

I think they are close with Rondo last year having the better of the matchup head to head.

Rondo in 4 games: 61.364%   2.50 steals  3.3 TO   7.5 Reb   9.0 ast   17.5 pts
Harris "     "  : 38.462%   1.25 steals    4.3 TO 0.8 Reb   5.0 ast   16.3 pts



Rondo well over his averages, Harris below.



But in the same price range.

[wiley]

I think Rondo is another class than Devin Harris.  Harris does one thing better, shoot.  Rondo does all the rest better. 

Rondo's scoring average would be higher on a young team with few stars.  He wouldn't shoot better, but he'd score more.

[Roy Hobbs]

Rondo's scoring average would be higher on a young team with few stars.  He wouldn't shoot better, but he'd score more.

Yeah, he'd probably score more, but he'd have fewer assists, and his FG% would be lower, as teams would focus on stopping him.  Right now, teams don't game plan to stop Rondo.  In fact, as Doc pointed out, they specifically double off of him.  Stuff like that doesn't happen to Harris.  Give Harris the space that Rondo has, and he'd score 25 ppg.

They're both good young players.  I think if their roles were swapped, Harris would be universally loved by all Celtics fans, and Rondo would be seen as a step below.  I know that if I could have either player for one play to win a championship, I'd probably choose Harris.

[CoachBo]

Rondo's scoring average would be higher on a young team with few stars.  He wouldn't shoot better, but he'd score more.

Yeah, he'd probably score more, but he'd have fewer assists, and his FG% would be lower, as teams would focus on stopping him.  Right now, teams don't game plan to stop Rondo.  In fact, as Doc pointed out, they specifically double off of him.  Stuff like that doesn't happen to Harris.  Give Harris the space that Rondo has, and he'd score 25 ppg.

They're both good young players.  I think if their roles were swapped, Harris would be universally loved by all Celtics fans, and Rondo would be seen as a step below.  I know that if I could have either player for one play to win a championship, I'd probably choose Harris.

TP, Roy. Excellent points, and I totally agree. This is where I'd make Rondo an extension offer.

[winsomme]

A lot of people on this blog talk about Rondo being a top-five point guard, and a top-two or -three "young" point guard.  Often, the names you'll see listed above Rondo are as follows:

1. CP3
2. Deron
3. Rose (maybe)
4. Parker (maybe)
5. Rondo

I'm curious as to why Devis Harris is constantly left out of these discussions.  Looking at their numbers, Harris seems to compare favorably to Rondo:

Rondo: 11.9 pts, 5.2 reb, 8.2 ast, 2.6 to, 1.9 spg, .514 eFG% (.375 on jumpers), .543 TS%

Harris: 21.3 pts, 3.3 reb, 6.9 ast, 3.1 to, 1.7 spg, .469 eFG% (.419 on jumpers), .563 TS%

Harris scores 10 more points, and only averages 1.3 less assists.  The two players are almost at the same efficiency, and from observation (rather than statistics) both players play similar defense.  Why, then, is he overlooked in the discussion of good young point guards?

Harris' contract may be an interesting one for the Celtics to look at when determining Rondo's value.  Harris made $7.8 million in his first year, and his total contract is 5 years, $43 million.  I think that would be a very reasonable deal for both sides.

For me, the comparison is the perfect example of the folly of looking at Rondo's stat line to put a  value on his play.

certainly there is reason to look at stat lines, but especially in the case of a pure point it is quite difficult to do a one to one comparison like you are doing here between Rondo and Harris.

Rondo's real value is in RUNNING the offense. and I think Harris quite a bit behind Rondo in that department.

[CoachBo]

I haven't seen enough of Harris to evaluate, but I don't recall him stagnating his offense by pounding the basketball as Rondo's prone to do.

[winsomme]

also just from a money standpoint, if Harris is getting an average of almost 9 million per, putting  Rondo at 10-11 sounds about right...which is what most of his proponents are suggesting.

[winsomme]

I haven't seen enough of Harris to evaluate, but I don't recall him stagnating his offense by pounding the basketball as Rondo's prone to do.

stagnating the offense? I'm not seeing that in any significant way from Rondo.

[Roy Hobbs]

also just from a money standpoint, if Harris is getting an average of almost 9 million per, putting  Rondo at 10-11 sounds about right...which is what most of his proponents are suggesting.

Harris averages $8.6 million.  I'd be hard-pressed to say that Rondo is $1.4 - $2.4 million per season better than he is.

[Roy Hobbs]

I haven't seen enough of Harris to evaluate, but I don't recall him stagnating his offense by pounding the basketball as Rondo's prone to do.

stagnating the offense? I'm not seeing that in any significant way from Rondo.

It happens quite a bit when Rondo is asked to create at the end of quarters.  It's not one of his strong points.  I have nothing to back that up other than anecdotal evidence / observation, however.

Again, Rondo is an excellent young point guard, but he needs to improve.  Teams double off him because he has a poor jump shot, and he's unable to use his speed to get to the line on a regular basis.  People might diss Harris, but neither of those two things are true for him.

[wiley]

I think Rondo can dominate a game, take it over completely, while Harris does/will do his thing more quietly.  

I think players like Harris can be found more easily, while Rondo is nearly imposssible to duplicate.  Has Harris achieved a single triple double yet?  Will he?  How many?  Rondo has a chance to triple double at a Jason Kidd rate imo..

I would also look at them head to head.  I only remember one game, but I remember Harris looking utterly ****ed at what was transpiring on the court.

Interesting discussion though.  For one, because if you're going to replace Rondo, you might as well do it with a good shooter, since you have zero chance of replacing the other things/intangibles/IQ/relentlessness/big play ability.....

Also depends on the team.  Some teams might need a shooter way more than all the rest....

[CoachBo]

Actually, it happens in stretches, particularly around the end of quarters. One of the areas he needs to improve on is movement with the basketball. He isn't as consistent at probing off the dribble as several points in the league. Not that he can't do it, but it's like his defense - he doesn't seem to want to do it on every possession, night in and night out.

Right now, you don't want Rondo getting to the line. He's below average for a point from there.

[winsomme]

also just from a money standpoint, if Harris is getting an average of almost 9 million per, putting  Rondo at 10-11 sounds about right...which is what most of his proponents are suggesting.

Harris averages $8.6 million.  I'd be hard-pressed to say that Rondo is $1.4 - $2.4 million per season better than he is.

two other points:

Harris just finished his 5th season to Rondo's third.

and just going with the stat lines you posted, pretty big difference in Assist/TO ratio:

Harris: 2.2
Rondo: 3.1

yeah, I'd say at least 1 mil per more than Harris sounds about right to me.

let's put it this way, i wouldn't trade Rondo straight up for Harris.