Poll

If We Fail to Win the NBA Championship in 2021, Should We Move On From Ainge?

Yes unless we make it to the NBA Finals
5 (10.4%)
Yes unless we make it to the Eastern Conference Finals (Again...)
1 (2.1%)
No
38 (79.2%)
Undecided
4 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 48

Voting closed: January 08, 2021, 02:21:32 AM

Author Topic: If We Falter in 2021, Should We Move On From Ainge?  (Read 6211 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: If We Falter in 2021, Should We Move On From Ainge?
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2020, 08:01:36 PM »

Online Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533

Basically since Ainge made the Nets trade, has tried to win, while also building for the future and that failure to pick a direction caused him to harm the title odds of both paths. 


I disagree with this pretty strongly. 


Like any smart GM, Ainge has set his franchise up to have multiple paths to follow toward success, rather than placing all of the team's resources on one plan.


Ainge spent most of the period between 2014 and 2017 piling up assets to make a move.  There were potentially some opportunities for guys like George and Butler, but nothing that was a slam dunk because it was never really possible to get those guys with more than a single season left on his deal.

Thanks to the IT trade working out super well and Brad being a very good coach, the Celts were still competitive during that asset compilation period.  That competitiveness allowed the team to sign Al Horford in 2016 and then Hayward in 2017. 

Danny managed to trade for Kyrie Irving, a B-Tier star who had shown some MVP level upside during the 2016 playoff run, without trading away any of his best assets.  This then set up the team to contend for a couple years with Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford, while leaving the door open for an even bigger deal for the next major name to become available.

We now know that Ainge had Anthony Davis on his mind for several years before Davis ever became available.  I think it's pretty obvious now that the idea was that the team would thrive with Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford, leading Kyrie to want to stick around, and then Kyrie's cache as a star would give the Celts a chance to convince AD to want to come here.  Trading for AD was supposed to be Ainge's follow-up to the KG trade.  The major headline grabbing move that would change the NBA landscape and lead directly to Banner 18.


Unfortunately, the Hayward injury basically ruined all of those plans.  The team still made the ECF in 2018, but that run actually threw off the plans even further in some respects because it created a rift between Irving (who didn't participate in that run) and the younger guys who introduced themselves to a national audience.  It also made it that much harder to consider trading Tatum and Brown given what they'd shown.


This all culminated with Kyrie checking out almost a full year before he actually left in free agency, and Davis signing with Klutch and deciding he wanted to be a Laker over a year before his team was really willing to trade him.


Despite all of this, the Celts were still in a great position to transition to building around Tatum and Brown.  They made the ECF yet again this summer despite not looking like a roster that would be favored to win a second round series as recently as last October.




The bottom line is that if Ainge had "chosen a direction" as you seem to suggest he should have done, there's a good chance that the Celtics would be in a much worse position now.  Ainge could have easily gone all-in trading for a guy like Butler, Kawhi, or George, only to have that guy leave after one season.  The team could have likewise traded for Davis, gotten one half-hearted season from him knowing that he was never planning to stay, and then watched him leave.


Many franchises would have simply been crippled by an injury like the one Hayward sustained.  Thanks to Danny Ainge decidedly NOT putting too much emphasis on one plan or direction, the Celts have been able to shift gears and are now poised to remain among the upper echelon of teams while building around a 22 year old All-NBA talent and a 23 year old perennial All-Star type talent.


I guarantee that the same people complaining that Ainge didn't "choose a direction" would have excoriated him if he

(a) used all his trade assets in the mid-2010s to go after a superstar or two and that player left in FA before winning a title or

(b) traded away / chose not to sign any vets and focused on developing the young players, resulting in several 1st and 2nd round exits in a row.
I guarantee you I would not.  I've been screaming for Ainge to pick a direction for years.  I thought he finally did when he acquired Irving, but then he sat on his hands and never followed it up, making that a terrible decision.  You can't acquire a B level star (and let's also be real, I was one of the few that correctly called Irving a B level star, most of this board thought he was in the A class) with real assets (many people thought that Nets pick was going to be top 3 again) and then do nothing and I mean NOTHING for 2 full years.  He wasted the asset and as a result made it harder for the team to you know actually win a title. 

I mean Irving was acquired on August 22, 2017.  This is the transaction history from the Irving signing until the Walker signing.

http://prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=&Team=Celtics&BeginDate=2017-08-22&EndDate=2019-07-06&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&Submit=Search

I mean aside from exercising team options, re-signing Baynes and Smart, and drafting players, the Celtics biggest moves were signing Greg Monroe for the rest of the 2017-18 season or bringing Brad Wanamaker in as a free agent.  There was the draft day trade which was clearly a loss (i.e giving up Thybulle for Edwards/Jerome).  The other draft day trade in dumping Baynes/Jerome for a future 1st worked out ok as it allowed for Walker to be acquired, though I do wonder if Ainge had to do that trade as he ended up sign and trading Rozier so he maybe could have made it work without giving up the 1st round pick or maybe not even Baynes.

I mean that is nothing.  No moves of any kind for 2 straight trade deadlines, when the team was close enough for it to matter and next to nothing in the off season.  You don't give up a top 10 pick for a B level star and then not try to win around that star (and that top 10 pick could have been someone like SGA, Porter Jr, or even a Bridges).  And I absolutely unequivocally would have traded Brown for Leonard in the summer of 2018.  Wouldn't have given it a second thought and Boston would have won the title had Ainge pulled that trigger.  You are right he was waiting on Davis, but that was perhaps his biggest mistake because he let things go by the way side and Boston is now further from a title than it could have been.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: If We Falter in 2021, Should We Move On From Ainge?
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2020, 11:57:06 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2116
  • Tommy Points: 94
Moranis, thanks for the reminder about passing up on trading Brown for Kawhi. Had we executed that trade, we would have won the title in 2019 and possibly created a situation where Kawhi likes the Celtics the same way Paul Pierce did, so perhaps with a title in town we go into 2019-2020 with Irving, Smart, Tatum, Leonard, Horford, and Hayward. Truly unbeatable roster and back-to-back champions right now...

But, you know, we can keep ranting forever about that time Ainge pulled off the 2013 trade, and how we’ve got this great trading GM whose last major trade was three years ago and resulted in that star ditching us after two lackluster seasons and a heart attack...

Folks, the Lakers have won three championships since our last championship. If we do not stop them, they’re going to win many more the next 5-6 years after they pair AD with someone like Giannis, Kawhi or who knows. We’ve won one championship in nearly 20 years with Ainge. If it doesn’t happen in 2021, it’s just not going to happen and we’re going to eventually move on after Tatum and Brown walk away from us in the future (why would they stick around without truly leaving a mark as a champion?)...where are we then? And how many years does one get to oversee a rebuild? This is Title Town, so let’s win a title. No more excuses.

P.S. Folks, don’t ever forget that Ainge lobbied Red to trade Bird back in ‘88. There are some guys you just do not trade and Larry Legend is one of them; Ainge is not one of those guys, so if we can essentially trade Ainge for a fresh start with Morey in 2021, and an amazing coach like Tony Bennett or Gregg Popovich along the way, we need to do it to improve our chances of winning a championship...unless, of course, Ainge helps us win it all in 2021. In that case, fine. But what have you done for us lately, Ainge? Seriously, have no idea why some people are loyal to a guy who is not loyal to anybody...
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 12:20:51 AM by GreenlyGreeny »