Hayward Out 4 Weeks (Per Shams)

[makaveli]

Upgraded to "doubtful" for game 2.

Was hoping for "questionable" at least.  This sucks.

On the bright side it means he's at least a possibility for game 3, will probably be questionable.

I mean isn't "out" to "doubtful" better though.

Could it mean that he's 80% chance of playing Game 3 though?!

My point of view as well

[cman88]

and this upgrade was after his workout. maybe he is upgraded again to questionable? would be nice.

[Roy H.]

Weird take by KG:

Kevin Garnett, however, doesn’t sound crazy about Hayward’s current fit with Boston.

“I love Gordon (Hayward) to death,” Garnett told USA Today. “I just don’t know where it fits in the growth of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. You have a trifecta, you know? And it just looks at times like he doesn’t fit or he tries too hard. It just looks like he doesn’t fit.”

Garnett continued: “…With him out, it’s a simplicity for Marcus Smart to come in and play a certain way. It seems like a simplicity for Kemba Walker to come in and play a certain way… Tatum. It just seems like a more simplistic system when those four, or those three, are kind of working.”

“I’m no coach or anything. I’m just an observer and I’m a student of energy or chemistry. And I’m just watching how that whole dynamic looks when Gordon is off it.”

Garnett’s assessment is a bit of a head-scratcher. Sure, Brad Stevens and Co. might have forced Hayward into the mix at times last season, but the 30-year-old seemingly has been in a groove for the majority of the current campaign. Hayward is an above-average ball-handler, which often comes most in handy for the Celtics when Stevens leaves him out to run the second-unit offense. The 10th-year pro also is capable of creating his own shot which, of course, is an invaluable skill in the NBA.

[Greengang5]

Weird take by KG:

Kevin Garnett, however, doesn’t sound crazy about Hayward’s current fit with Boston.

“I love Gordon (Hayward) to death,” Garnett told USA Today. “I just don’t know where it fits in the growth of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. You have a trifecta, you know? And it just looks at times like he doesn’t fit or he tries too hard. It just looks like he doesn’t fit.”

Garnett continued: “…With him out, it’s a simplicity for Marcus Smart to come in and play a certain way. It seems like a simplicity for Kemba Walker to come in and play a certain way… Tatum. It just seems like a more simplistic system when those four, or those three, are kind of working.”

“I’m no coach or anything. I’m just an observer and I’m a student of energy or chemistry. And I’m just watching how that whole dynamic looks when Gordon is off it.”

Garnett’s assessment is a bit of a head-scratcher. Sure, Brad Stevens and Co. might have forced Hayward into the mix at times last season, but the 30-year-old seemingly has been in a groove for the majority of the current campaign. Hayward is an above-average ball-handler, which often comes most in handy for the Celtics when Stevens leaves him out to run the second-unit offense. The 10th-year pro also is capable of creating his own shot which, of course, is an invaluable skill in the NBA.

There isn't a metric I have seen that shows Hayward has stunted the Jay's at all.  I believe it makes life easier having Hayward. My eyes tell me Smart offensively takes away from Brown at times. KG is off.  This team plays well together across the board. If anything Hayward when healthy was all star level and the Jay's probably stunt his play.  But Hayward is a team player and just wants to win.

[Vermont Green]

Weird take by KG:

Kevin Garnett, however, doesn’t sound crazy about Hayward’s current fit with Boston.

“I love Gordon (Hayward) to death,” Garnett told USA Today. “I just don’t know where it fits in the growth of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. You have a trifecta, you know? And it just looks at times like he doesn’t fit or he tries too hard. It just looks like he doesn’t fit.”

Garnett continued: “…With him out, it’s a simplicity for Marcus Smart to come in and play a certain way. It seems like a simplicity for Kemba Walker to come in and play a certain way… Tatum. It just seems like a more simplistic system when those four, or those three, are kind of working.”

“I’m no coach or anything. I’m just an observer and I’m a student of energy or chemistry. And I’m just watching how that whole dynamic looks when Gordon is off it.”

Garnett’s assessment is a bit of a head-scratcher. Sure, Brad Stevens and Co. might have forced Hayward into the mix at times last season, but the 30-year-old seemingly has been in a groove for the majority of the current campaign. Hayward is an above-average ball-handler, which often comes most in handy for the Celtics when Stevens leaves him out to run the second-unit offense. The 10th-year pro also is capable of creating his own shot which, of course, is an invaluable skill in the NBA.

I don't disagree with KG.  He is saying that Gordon Hayward is a good player and I agree but on the Celtics, he is the 3rd best wing behind Tatum and Brown.  In that sense, his value to the team is less than it might be to another team that is not already as deep at the position.

The Celtics would be better served by a player that is more like Jae Crowder or Marcus Morris, more of a swing, that can offer some different match ups over what Hayward can give you.  Or of course an actual true PF with skill.

All that said, I think he will help the team if he comes back.  He is still a talented player and it allows us to put more talent on the floor when we go to the bench (whether him or Marcus).

[Somebody]

Weird take by KG:

Kevin Garnett, however, doesn’t sound crazy about Hayward’s current fit with Boston.

“I love Gordon (Hayward) to death,” Garnett told USA Today. “I just don’t know where it fits in the growth of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. You have a trifecta, you know? And it just looks at times like he doesn’t fit or he tries too hard. It just looks like he doesn’t fit.”

Garnett continued: “…With him out, it’s a simplicity for Marcus Smart to come in and play a certain way. It seems like a simplicity for Kemba Walker to come in and play a certain way… Tatum. It just seems like a more simplistic system when those four, or those three, are kind of working.”

“I’m no coach or anything. I’m just an observer and I’m a student of energy or chemistry. And I’m just watching how that whole dynamic looks when Gordon is off it.”

Garnett’s assessment is a bit of a head-scratcher. Sure, Brad Stevens and Co. might have forced Hayward into the mix at times last season, but the 30-year-old seemingly has been in a groove for the majority of the current campaign. Hayward is an above-average ball-handler, which often comes most in handy for the Celtics when Stevens leaves him out to run the second-unit offense. The 10th-year pro also is capable of creating his own shot which, of course, is an invaluable skill in the NBA.

There isn't a metric I have seen that shows Hayward has stunted the Jay's at all.  I believe it makes life easier having Hayward. My eyes tell me Smart offensively takes away from Brown at times. KG is off.  This team plays well together across the board. If anything Hayward when healthy was all star level and the Jay's probably stunt his play.  But Hayward is a team player and just wants to win.

^this. Odd that one of the most additive and scalable big man superstars in NBA history wouldn't recognise how malleable Hayward's skillset is with other players who're capable on-ball. He might just be talking about how we now have a structure in the offence now in the sense that Walker and Tatum are carrying the bulk of the offensive load right now though, which ironically has a lower ceiling than the offence we have when Hayward is on the court (a "swing" offence with multiple guys who can pass, score and create is very potent).

[GreenFaith1819]

Love KG to life, but we're going to need Gordon Hayward's versatility going forward - especially in THIS series.

Coach Stevens knows how to use him to the team's benefit.

[footey]

I agree that Gordon has sacrificed a great deal in terms of shots to blend in more with the two J's. But to suggest that he doesn't fit within the team is a take I don't see at all.  I guess someone with the on/off stats can make the point better than I.

[jambr380]

Hayward has played very well this year, but I agree - to an extent - that he is more of a luxury than a necessity. If the team had, say, Joe Ingles, instead of Gordon Hayward, I don't think our team would suffer all that much. As VG pointed out, maybe having a true PF or swing would help, but Gordon's talent more than makes up for who we would have instead. And with Tatum and Gordon out there, along with Brown, we actually have a very formidable wing rotation with our overall size.

KG might also be alluding to chemistry. If you recall, Kemba, Tatum, Brown, and Smart were all part of Team USA, while Hayward was not. I don't think KG is correct - if we have a healthy Hayward for the entire playoffs, then the Finals would be a slam dunk - but I guess I understand what he is saying.

[gift]

Hayward's biggest impact is as an additional ball handler. You can't box up Kemba as much if (healthy) Hayward is out there too. Then Kemba has more options off the ball because he doesn't need to be there to help Tatum/Smart or anyone else if they get pressured and need to give it up to someone who can initiate offense outside the three point line.

But of course he helps as an additional cutter, shooter and defender as well. But I think that's where he's more of a luxury. He's necessary as a ball handler.

[footey]

Hayward has played very well this year, but I agree - to an extent - that he is more of a luxury than a necessity. If the team had, say, Joe Ingles, instead of Gordon Hayward, I don't think our team would suffer all that much. As VG pointed out, maybe having a true PF or swing would help, but Gordon's talent more than makes up for who we would have instead. And with Tatum and Gordon out there, along with Brown, we actually have a very formidable wing rotation with our overall size.

KG might also be alluding to chemistry. If you recall, Kemba, Tatum, Brown, and Smart were all part of Team USA, while Hayward was not. I don't think KG is correct - if we have a healthy Hayward for the entire playoffs, then the Finals would be a slam dunk - but I guess I understand what he is saying.

I think the weak link at the moment of our top 5 is Kemba, especially on the defensive end.

[Somebody]

I agree that Gordon has sacrificed a great deal in terms of shots to blend in more with the two J's. But to suggest that he doesn't fit within the team is a take I don't see at all.  I guess someone with the on/off stats can make the point better than I.

Small sample size but Hayward lineups look good:
https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612738&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*100

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Quick google shows that the player that benefits most from Hayward's passing is Kemba Walker, the very player who is struggling most to score right now.

https://stats.nba.com/player/202330/passes-dash/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

The Utah offense really taught Hayward never to give back an advantage. Once an advantage on a possession is created, keeping working it. Which means he did a lot of quick pump fake, one-dribble, kick-out drives to Walker for good looks. Tatum, Brown, and Smart just aren't creating those looks for Walker. Everything Walker is trying to do is coming from his own shot creation.

I also think Hayward was developing a nice little two-man game with Brown in the bubble, and both were benefiting from that newfound chemistry.

Every single team in the NBA would benefit from Gordon Hayward. He makes team offenses better and is an intelligent defender. (Channeling my inner-Brad) "He's a really good basketball player."

[droopdog7]

Weird take by KG:

Kevin Garnett, however, doesn’t sound crazy about Hayward’s current fit with Boston.

“I love Gordon (Hayward) to death,” Garnett told USA Today. “I just don’t know where it fits in the growth of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. You have a trifecta, you know? And it just looks at times like he doesn’t fit or he tries too hard. It just looks like he doesn’t fit.”

Garnett continued: “…With him out, it’s a simplicity for Marcus Smart to come in and play a certain way. It seems like a simplicity for Kemba Walker to come in and play a certain way… Tatum. It just seems like a more simplistic system when those four, or those three, are kind of working.”

“I’m no coach or anything. I’m just an observer and I’m a student of energy or chemistry. And I’m just watching how that whole dynamic looks when Gordon is off it.”

Garnett’s assessment is a bit of a head-scratcher. Sure, Brad Stevens and Co. might have forced Hayward into the mix at times last season, but the 30-year-old seemingly has been in a groove for the majority of the current campaign. Hayward is an above-average ball-handler, which often comes most in handy for the Celtics when Stevens leaves him out to run the second-unit offense. The 10th-year pro also is capable of creating his own shot which, of course, is an invaluable skill in the NBA.

I don't disagree with KG.  He is saying that Gordon Hayward is a good player and I agree but on the Celtics, he is the 3rd best wing behind Tatum and Brown.  In that sense, his value to the team is less than it might be to another team that is not already as deep at the position.

The Celtics would be better served by a player that is more like Jae Crowder or Marcus Morris, more of a swing, that can offer some different match ups over what Hayward can give you.  Or of course an actual true PF with skill.

All that said, I think he will help the team if he comes back.  He is still a talented player and it allows us to put more talent on the floor when we go to the bench (whether him or Marcus).

This problem with this statement is that Hayward isn't the third best wing.  He's better than Brown and the team is better with him.

Now that said, Hayward coming off injury might not be better but I would rather get him back sooner rather than later to give him time to work out any kinks.

On other thing, looking at regular season stuff is not necessarily going to be accurate anyway.  In the post season, having a guy with a reliable jumper that facilitates is going to be very valuable. 

[keevsnick]

Weird take by KG:

Kevin Garnett, however, doesn’t sound crazy about Hayward’s current fit with Boston.

“I love Gordon (Hayward) to death,” Garnett told USA Today. “I just don’t know where it fits in the growth of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. You have a trifecta, you know? And it just looks at times like he doesn’t fit or he tries too hard. It just looks like he doesn’t fit.”

Garnett continued: “…With him out, it’s a simplicity for Marcus Smart to come in and play a certain way. It seems like a simplicity for Kemba Walker to come in and play a certain way… Tatum. It just seems like a more simplistic system when those four, or those three, are kind of working.”

“I’m no coach or anything. I’m just an observer and I’m a student of energy or chemistry. And I’m just watching how that whole dynamic looks when Gordon is off it.”

Garnett’s assessment is a bit of a head-scratcher. Sure, Brad Stevens and Co. might have forced Hayward into the mix at times last season, but the 30-year-old seemingly has been in a groove for the majority of the current campaign. Hayward is an above-average ball-handler, which often comes most in handy for the Celtics when Stevens leaves him out to run the second-unit offense. The 10th-year pro also is capable of creating his own shot which, of course, is an invaluable skill in the NBA.

I don't disagree with KG.  He is saying that Gordon Hayward is a good player and I agree but on the Celtics, he is the 3rd best wing behind Tatum and Brown.  In that sense, his value to the team is less than it might be to another team that is not already as deep at the position.

The Celtics would be better served by a player that is more like Jae Crowder or Marcus Morris, more of a swing, that can offer some different match ups over what Hayward can give you.  Or of course an actual true PF with skill.

All that said, I think he will help the team if he comes back.  He is still a talented player and it allows us to put more talent on the floor when we go to the bench (whether him or Marcus).

This problem with this statement is that Hayward isn't the third best wing.  He's better than Brown and the team is better with him.

Now that said, Hayward coming off injury might not be better but I would rather get him back sooner rather than later to give him time to work out any kinks.

On other thing, looking at regular season stuff is not necessarily going to be accurate anyway.  In the post season, having a guy with a reliable jumper that facilitates is going to be very valuable.

Given that brown scored more, just as efficiently, played way better defense and rebounded it comparably i would say brown is better. Hayward is a better passer, so maybe it depends on what exactly you want to value. But i think brown is definitely better right now, maybe not by much.

That said having Hayward does make them better, I don't know if he's the perfect piece long term. There may be a better use of his money. But he is better than semi/g will right now so he certainly helps. The question is how he looked after 5 weeks off. I can only imagine the reaction of Celtics fans if he goes 3-10 for 7 points his first game back.