Author Topic: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens  (Read 15867 times)

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Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2022, 02:57:44 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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The sky is falling, we lost 2 games in a row.

This is sort of a meaningless post, no?

Contribute something.  Can you defend the decision not to have a competent backup big on the roster, or add to the coaching staff?

The meaning I derived from Jvalin’s post: it is early and people freaked out last year when the Celtics were in rough shape. People were complaining about Ime. Now let’s blame Brad and Muzzala.

My experience is that fans are often emotional and impatient.

Also, I don’t think the Celtics are the best team in the league. They are behind Mil and GS. I think they were fortunate to get to the Finals last year.

I think you are correct, so all the more reason to improve the roster beyond just the pickup of Brogdon, which was huge.
But that is the problem, isn't it ? Brad has done well acquiring perimeter guys, but is clueless about the importance of post players.
So Brad is ''clueless'' and a bunch of random posters on the internet know better. Seems legit.

For the record, the C's are built around 2 versatile/switchable (s)wings in Tatum and Brown. We want to maximize their effectiveness on both sides of the ball, hence we run a switch-heavy defensive scheme. Switching defense requires an undersized frontcourt and an oversized backcourt. That's exactly what we have. It seems to me you are the one who's clueless, not Brad.

Basketball has come a long way since the emergence of the pace-and-space era. ''The importance of post players'' is pretty much nonexistent. Today's game is all about efficiency on offense and positional versatility on defense. Want an example? Prime Shaq was scoring 1.24 PPP in 2000. Grant Williams was scoring 1.31 PPP in 2022. The former was a mega star. The latter is just a role player with 3pt range.




Want another example? Gobert is an elite rim protector, yet he was almost unplayable in the playoffs cause he couldn't defend the corner 3. You guys live in the past. We aren't in the 00s and the early 10s anymore. Data analytics have transformed the game. The same goes for basically every sport. Even chess is a different game today (at the highest level) because of data analytics.

I'm all for removing Kornet from the rotation. Unless a major trade is about to happen (which is highly unlikely), his replacement should be a (s)wing or a guard, not another big.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 04:00:46 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2022, 06:41:05 AM »

Online ozgod

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I don't know what Brad's thought process is, but if I had to guess as to why he stayed put, my guesses would be:

1. value for money given the luxury tax's multiplicative impact, especially for those lower value players in the $5-$15m range to fill the end of bench role
2. timing - at the time the TPE expired, both Timelord and Gallo were healthy. Our active rotation was deep
3. rather than pre-empt anything, wait to see what needs arise during the season and make a move then

I think the Brad's main reasoning with letting the TPE expire comes down to value for money. It's one thing to go over the luxury tax to sign a quality player like Brogdon, or to extend a guy like Jaylen or Tatum. I don't think Wyc would bat an eyelid with those things. It's the fact that when you are already over the luxury tax, the multiplicative effect of it makes a player cost 2-3x more. So it's harder to internally justify those $5-$15m guys who may end up costing $20-$60m. My guess is that is why Brad decided to let the $17m TPE expire. I'm sure he's tasked to win, but he probably also feels he has a fiduciary responsibility to spend the organization's money wisely. It's enough of a challenge to find a guy within the $5-$15m range that is worth the money given who was available at the time, let alone having that player end up costing the equivalent of a max contract.

Now would Wyc have put the kibosh on using the TPE to sign a guy like Myles Turner, who has a cap hit of $18m and would have an ultimate payroll cost of $72m? (Let's assume he's available.) Probably not, but with our roster healthy, where would we carve his minutes out of? Obviously hindsight being 20/20 he would be very useful now, but what happens when Timelord comes back?

So the type of player we're looking for is really a supersub type guy, an Aron Baynes  or Daniel Theis who is perfectly serviceable being subbed in, certainly not as good as Timelord but a lot better than Vonleh or Kornet, but at the same time has no issue with sitting. Maybe a Bitadze who is at $5m. Maybe we could even stretch and get a Poeltl for $10m. But with being over the luxury tax, Bitadze ends up costing $20m, the same as Smart, and Poeltl ends up at $40m, more than Jayson Tatum. For a guy that might play 10m or less when Timelord gets back? I think that's the equation that goes through Brad's head. I don't think Wyc would intervene to stop him if he really felt it was worth it, but it's one of those "you have the authority to do what you think is right, but God help you if you are wrong" type decisions  :police:

Then if we look at the timing of events:

Jul 9 - Brogdon trade
Jul 10 - Gallo signing
July 18 - expiration of $17m TPE
Sep 2 - Gallo injury
Sep 21 - Timelord surgery, expected to be out 4-6 weeks
Oct 18 - Timelord return expected to be delayed to Jan-Feb

Finally, it's early in the season. I know things don't look good after 5 games, but I don't think Brad or the organization will be slitting wrists just yet. They have plenty of time to make a move if things continue to go south. Nobody wants to tempt fate, but if you look at us last year, we were 2-3, we had given up 138, 115, 97, 129 and 116. By the end of November we were 11-21. We all know where we ended. Not to say that history will repeat itself, but a lot of these moves Brad didn't make, other than using the TPE which is gone, can be addressed.

We can trade for a big if we need to, we still have the same trade assets we did this time a week ago, when we were 3-0 and everyone was calm, if a bit concerned at the amount of points we were giving up. I posted an thread earlier looking at our defense and even though it's a small sample size, there's some early evidence to suggest that another big would help because our small ball lineup with Horford at the 5 and White in the backcourt is giving up a lot more points than we would like. But it could have just as easily have been Jaylen missing time instead of Timelord and we would now be castigating Brad for not signing another wing.

So while losing 2 games sucks and my thread on our defense sucking may have been over reactionary, I'm not too worried (being over reactionary is being part of a fan  :angel:). It's early in the season and Brad should be able to course correct, with an easier sell for going deeper into the luxury tax because there's a clearer need now than there was a few months ago. I wouldn't be surprised to see him use the $6.9m Hernangomez TPE and the $5.9m Schroder TPE before the trade deadline, if the right deal comes up  :laugh:

Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2022, 07:28:27 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Not that it really matters, but in 99-00, Shaq scored over 1.4 points per shot and the next season he was just under 1.5 points per shot.  In 01,  Shaq had 43% of his shots inside 3 feet and hit those at over 79%.  That is still the most effective high volume shot you can have.  Even for a guy like Steph Curry, that is true.  For example, in Steph's best 3 point shooting season he shot 45.4% from 3 or 136.2 points per 100 shots, but that season Curry also shot 69.6% from 0-3 feet, or 139.2 points per 100 shots. In other words, Curry was better at the rim than at 3.  Now obviously it is easier for Steph to shoot a 3 than a shot at the rim, but a shot at the rim is still the best shot to take for the greatest 3 point shooter in history.
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Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2022, 09:14:24 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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I was all for using the TPE for anyone at first, but I don't blame Brad for not using it at the time. Not even from the tax/money standpoint, but from the other assets standpoint. We only have so many tradable picks (2025+2027, essentially), and using one of them to bring in a player that would have been projected to be out of the rotation would have been dumb. If the Gallo injury doesn't happen or Timelord's timeline doesn't get pushed back, them we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

Now if someone who fills one of our gaps and would be in our rotation is available at the deadline (and fits into one of our existing TPE and Brad doesn't pull the trigger, I'll be p---ed at him too. But I can't really blame him for not spending one of our few trade chips to fill a hole that wasn't there.
I'm bitter.

Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2022, 01:41:31 PM »

Offline Big333223

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If only we had gotten Nerlens Noel - who hasn't played a game this season.

If only we had gotten Demarcus Cousins or Lamarcus Aldridge - who every other team in the NBA has passed on as well.

If only we had used the TPE on someone who was good enough to be upset when he's benched behind Rob and Al.
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Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2022, 02:02:49 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I was all for using the TPE for anyone at first, but I don't blame Brad for not using it at the time. Not even from the tax/money standpoint, but from the other assets standpoint. We only have so many tradable picks (2025+2027, essentially), and using one of them to bring in a player that would have been projected to be out of the rotation would have been dumb. If the Gallo injury doesn't happen or Timelord's timeline doesn't get pushed back, them we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

Now if someone who fills one of our gaps and would be in our rotation is available at the deadline (and fits into one of our existing TPE and Brad doesn't pull the trigger, I'll be p---ed at him too. But I can't really blame him for not spending one of our few trade chips to fill a hole that wasn't there.

I think the big missed opportunity that would have required a first rounder was Christian Wood.


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Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2022, 02:10:50 PM »

Offline G-Bones

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Wood is a solid offensive player.  Just how bad is his defense?

Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2022, 02:39:14 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Wood is a solid offensive player.  Just how bad is his defense?

Not any worse than the combination of Vonleh / Kornet / Griffin.


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Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2022, 02:58:39 PM »

Offline G-Bones

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What about Jakob Poeltl?

Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2022, 03:27:51 PM »

Offline gouki88

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What about Jakob Poeltl?
He would be great if he's available. I've wanted him for years.

Solid rebounder and defender, improved passer the last few seasons, efficient scoring, and has been on a friendly contract. He is an impending FA. Not sure whether San Antonio would want to keep him.
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Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2022, 04:06:04 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Wood is a solid offensive player.  Just how bad is his defense?

Not any worse than the combination of Vonleh / Kornet / Griffin.
Also, Wood would have been a great Horford replacement for next season. So you pay big this year in tax but less next year when you resign Wood to Horford's salary amount and bring Al back dirt cheap, if he doesn't retire.

Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2022, 04:07:01 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Wood is a solid offensive player.  Just how bad is his defense?

Not any worse than the combination of Vonleh / Kornet / Griffin.
Also, Wood would have been a great Horford replacement for next season. So you pay big this year in tax but less next year when you resign Wood to Horford's salary amount and bring Al back dirt cheap, if he doesn't retire.
No need to make it more painful than it already is Nick!
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Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2022, 04:26:48 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Wood is a solid offensive player.  Just how bad is his defense?

Not any worse than the combination of Vonleh / Kornet / Griffin.
Also, Wood would have been a great Horford replacement for next season. So you pay big this year in tax but less next year when you resign Wood to Horford's salary amount and bring Al back dirt cheap, if he doesn't retire.
No need to make it more painful than it already is Nick!

Yeah, just to pound the point home, our rotation could have been:

(Timelord) / Wood / Favors
Horford / Williams / Griffin
Tatum / B. Brown / Hauser
Brown / White
Smart / Brogdon / Pritchard

Plus, we'd have had an open roster spot to add to the team during the season.  That's the best team in the NBA, and it's sustainable going forward.



I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2022, 08:50:56 PM »

Offline bogg

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Wood is a solid offensive player.  Just how bad is his defense?

Not any worse than the combination of Vonleh / Kornet / Griffin.
Also, Wood would have been a great Horford replacement for next season. So you pay big this year in tax but less next year when you resign Wood to Horford's salary amount and bring Al back dirt cheap, if he doesn't retire.
No need to make it more painful than it already is Nick!

Yeah, just to pound the point home, our rotation could have been:

(Timelord) / Wood / Favors
Horford / Williams / Griffin
Tatum / B. Brown / Hauser
Brown / White
Smart / Brogdon / Pritchard

Plus, we'd have had an open roster spot to add to the team during the season.  That's the best team in the NBA, and it's sustainable going forward.

Can't have both Wood and Favors locked in, as both would have eaten the big TPE, and a lot of this hand-wringing is Monday morning quarterbacking the Gallo injury and Rob's surgery, both of which happened after the TPE expired.

In the case of Wood, he would have cost the team in the neighborhood of $60-70 million plus locked up their tradable first rounders until 2027 to platoon as the third-strong center. That move only looks defensible in hindsight.

Re: Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2022, 08:55:30 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Wood is a solid offensive player.  Just how bad is his defense?

Not any worse than the combination of Vonleh / Kornet / Griffin.
Also, Wood would have been a great Horford replacement for next season. So you pay big this year in tax but less next year when you resign Wood to Horford's salary amount and bring Al back dirt cheap, if he doesn't retire.
No need to make it more painful than it already is Nick!

Yeah, just to pound the point home, our rotation could have been:

(Timelord) / Wood / Favors
Horford / Williams / Griffin
Tatum / B. Brown / Hauser
Brown / White
Smart / Brogdon / Pritchard

Plus, we'd have had an open roster spot to add to the team during the season.  That's the best team in the NBA, and it's sustainable going forward.

Can't have both Wood and Favors locked in, as both would have eaten the big TPE, and a lot of this hand-wringing is Monday morning quarterbacking the Gallo injury and Rob's surgery, both of which happened after the TPE expired.

In the case of Wood, he would have cost the team in the neighborhood of $60-70 million plus locked up their tradable first rounders until 2027 to platoon as the third-strong center. That move only looks defensible in hindsight.

Huh?

Favors is a free agent.  We could sign him with the vet minimum, and that would be true if we had Wood.

The team has been monitoring Timelord's progress since his first surgery.  They obviously knew a second surgery was a possibility, if not a likelihood.

And, under what circumstances would Wood be a third string center? 


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes