Indefensible Decisions By Brad Stevens

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Roy, who is available today that will have a material impact on this squad? I’m not talking trades but merely Free Agents.

I also love how people used to hammer Danny, now Brad is the new target. I think some don’t appreciate how good we have it as Celtics fans. We’re a cold weather market with a lot of p---ed off fans. Why come to Boston with such annoying fans? It’s almost like we’re the new Philly.

[Roy H.]

Roy, who is available today that will have a material impact on this squad? I’m not talking trades but merely Free Agents.

I also love how people used to hammer Danny, now Brad is the new target. I think some don’t appreciate I good we have it as Celtics fans.

I would cut Vonleh and Kornet and sign Favors and Cousins. The question isn’t would be materially better, it’s whether we’d be better.  With those two, we’d likely have one more win right now.

[kraidstar]

Roy, who is available today that will have a material impact on this squad? I’m not talking trades but merely Free Agents.

I also love how people used to hammer Danny, now Brad is the new target. I think some don’t appreciate I good we have it as Celtics fans.

I would cut Vonleh and Kornet and sign Favors and Cousins. The question isn’t would be materially better, it’s whether we’d be better.  With those two, we’d likely have one more win right now.

I think Vonleh is fine as an end-of-bench big. He at least has strength and some athleticism.

Kornet brings literally nothing to the table 

[nickagneta]

The only thing I can see as truly a terrible move was not using the TPE. Look at what Christian Wood is doing in Dallas. Kelly Olynyk in Utah. Jarred Vanderbilt in Utah. JaMychal Green in Golden State. All bigs. All traded. All available for the right price.

I think Gallo was the right move. He got injured. Timelord is injured. Crap happens and you have to deal with it. Not using the TPE exacerbates the crap because both guys were bigs. But if crap didn't happen, I'ld still want Wood, Olynyk, Vanderbilt, Green, heck even Nerlens Noel, though he is still rehabbing from an injury he should be back soon, over Kornet or Vonleh.

[JSD]

The only thing I can see as truly a terrible move was not using the TPE. Look at what Christian Wood is doing in Dallas. Kelly Olynyk in Utah. Jarred Vanderbilt in Utah. JaMychal Green in Golden State. All bigs. All traded. All available for the right price.

I think Gallo was the right move. He got injured. Timelord is injured. Crap happens and you have to deal with it. Not using the TPE exacerbates the crap because both guys were bigs. But if crap didn't happen, I'ld still want Wood, Olynyk, Vanderbilt, Green, heck even Nerlens Noel, though he is still rehabbing from an injury he should be back soon, over Kornet or Vonleh.

Yup. I was incredulous about not using TPE, for all these reasons, it was totally indefensible. I was on the Olynk train.

I blame Celtics ownership more than Stevens. There is no way, if money is not an issue, that he doesn’t use that TPE at the very least to get a salary filler to preserve the slot.

[Roy H.]

Yes, not using the TPE was a big deal.  I don't know all of the information, so I'm not 100% comfortable blaming Brad, but *if* he was authorized to spend another $17 million, and didn't do so, then he should obviously be blamed for that.

We can't act like our choices were Kornet / Vonleh, or nothing.  Yes, there are the current free agent centers:  Favors, Cousins, Whiteside, D12, Zeller, Aldridge.  But, there are also other guys that were available that the Celtics had no reported interest in.  Among free agents, none were world beaters, but I'd take all of the following over Kornet:  Robin Lopez, Markieff Morris, T.J. Warren, Jalen Smith (would have been in place of Gallo), JaMychal Green, Taj Gibson, Gorgui Dieng, Mike Muscula, Bol Bol, Deandre Jordan, Montrezl Harrell, Otto Porter (again, in place of Gallo).  Some of those guys would have helped, others wouldn't have.  The only one we had reported interest in was Harrell.

Then, there were trade possibilities, as mentioned by nick and others.  Christian Wood is second among centers in scoring.  We passed.  New York would have paid us to take on Noel.  KO may have been available.   Jock Landale looks good right now, and he was traded for a minimal amount of cash. 

Right now, we're getting 7.2 points, 9.0 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1.6 turnovers, 42.3% FG%, 6.1 fouls and terrible defense out of Vonleh / Kornet / Griffin in 35 combined minutes per game.  (Adding stats like that with different numbers of games played isn't 100% valid, but it shows the sheer lack of production).

[Vermont Green]

Right now, we're getting 7.2 points, 9.0 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1.6 turnovers, 42.3% FG%, 6.1 fouls and terrible defense out of Vonleh / Kornet / Griffin in 35 combined minutes per game.  (Adding stats like that with different numbers of games played isn't 100% valid, but it shows the sheer lack of production).

I remain convinced that people are way over reacting to this.  First of all, you don't know if any of these FA want to come to Boston if offered a min contract and second. since no other team seems to want them, I don't think they are going to be any better than our current bigs.

Last night, our 3 big Musketeers (Vonleh, Griffin, Kornet) contributed 13 pts, 8 rebs, 3 asst, and a steal for an overall +11.  These guys aren't great but I don't accept that even Favors (who I suspect would be here if HE wanted to be here) would change things much.  Whiteside is the only other big FA that could help but I don't just assume he would be here if Boston offered.

People are right, solving the big problem is going to require a trade.  The thing is, this "problem" is much different if RWill comes back healthy or if he doesn't.  The situation is very different if he does come back.  I am fine with letting things play out.  See what we have.  See what comes available.  Don't just do a deal to do a deal.  Every deal has a cost, including an opportunity cost.

And people still with the TPE thing.  The TPE for some mythical player that that had so little value his current team would give him away and that player was going to solve all our problems.  Why didn't Brad make that deal?  Much of the talk was to get Nerlens Noel.  He isn't even better than Vonleh and isn't healthy to boot.  And people want to give up a draft pick to overpay for an injured bench player?

[footey]

The Blake Griffin signing was a waste of a roster spot.  He is out of gas.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I think it's a huge mistake if the plan is "get Rob back 100% healthy and expect no more injuries from him."

It's like watching a horror movie, and the attractive young woman is running from the killer, and the viewer somehow believes that she won't fall to the ground yet again. Like, of course she's going to fall again!

And of course Rob is going to get hurt again.

So Boston needs a real backup plan—as much for later in the season as for now. Especially since Horford is getting up there and will probably sit out a lot of back-to-backs.

[gouki88]

1.  Not signing at least one competent big man this off-season.  Dumpster diving doesn't work for a contender.

2.  Not adding to the coaching staff after losing Ime and Hardy.  That's a ton of talent that simply wasn't replaced.

Those two decisions alone show complete negligence, bordering on incompetence.  There are other decisions that Brad just chose wrong on (like Gallinari over Bruce Brown), but the above two are decisions that no competent GM should ever make.  (Not using the TPE is the other decision that's borderline indefensible, if Brad truly does have an unlimited budget.)

Agree completely. We are being carried a long way by the immense talent of our superstars. Imagine how good this team would be with Favors over Kornet & Brown over Gallo.

The coaching hires is an interesting point. I haven't thought too much about who we could have brought back, besides our weak effort at Larranaga

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Horford is 6'9". Timelord is 6'8". So much for having "superior size to other teams". Last time I checked, Timelord was still part of the roster. Assuming we are contenders, we need him to be close to 100% come playoff time.

You guys want us to go big. If anything, I'd want us to go smaller. I'd love us to regularly use uber small-ball lineups. For instance:

White-Brogdon-Brown-Tatum-Smart (/Horford/Grant)

5 guys who can either shoot or put the ball on the floor and attack the basket.

I’m in favor of whatever works in any given situation, but the Cs seem to get abused whenever they go small against teams with size, like Milwaukee.

Not many teams have an elite athletic big like Giannis. Even against Giannis, we don't need a big Center. Horford + 1 help defender is probably our best bet. Giannis would destroy a slow-footed big.

It's not just Giannis. Portis tends to have a field day against Boston, especially on the boards. There's also Brook Lopez.

And it's not just Milwaukee—there's Embiid, there's Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen, there's Siakam, there's Mitchell Robinson. Boston tends to struggle against length—at least when Rob's not around, and let's face it: he's not around a lot—and there's plenty of length in the NBA these days.

Grant's a solid defender as far as positioning and being able to body up guys, but length is his weakness, so he can't be depended on to spell Rob against long players. Kornet has length but is maybe not even an NBA player. Vonleh and Griffin offer little.

Boston needs a legit backup with length.

[tenn_smoothie]

I do think we should have used that big TPE on a big but that’s 20/20 hindsight.

But it was not hindsight this summer - Most people were begging for additional help in the post before the TPE expired.
Again, if this is Wyc trying to own this team on the cheap, nothing else will matter. We won't win titles.

[ScoobyDoo]

My two priority targets this summer (playing armchair GM...) were Jalen Smith and Andre Drummond. I loved the Brogdon trade but didn't like the Gallinari signing.

Time Lord   | Drummond | Kornet, Vonleh
Jalen Smith | Horford |  Kabengele
Tatum         | G Williams | Hauser/anyone
Brown        | White | anyone
Smart        | Brogdon | Pritchard

I thought Jalen Smith was the ideal fit next to Time Lord and Tatum. Great young prospect that could grow with the rest of the starters. Have Horford mentor him. Sign Horford to the Duncan sunset contract.

I love the Time Lord but with his injury history you have to take a load off his minutes and have a legit back up center who can start for 20 games and play 30-35 minutes a night. That isn't Al Horford. He'll do it but it's not what you want. Enter Drummond, who signed for half of what Gallinari signed for. Half...

I love Al, but he's 37 at the end of this season. You "have" to get a young power forward in here. Tatum can play the four but we're the most physically imposing with him at the three and brown at the two. I was all in on Jalen Smith and would have offered him more than Indiana did. I would have gone to the full mid level to get him here and would have told him he's the starting power forward. his per 36 numbers are 21 points and 13 rebounds. I would have taken the flyer on him.

As someone lese said, small ball isn't the answer, never has been and never will be. Golden State has unique players (unique in NBA history...) that make it work. If Tatum and Time Lord were fully healthy we probably win the title and it was because our overall size bothered Golden State - a lot.

When the playoffs roll around you need muscle and athleticism. We have athleticism coming out our ears and we have plenty of shooting. We didn't need Gallinari - we could really use Drummond though. And Jalen Smith would take a huge load off Horford's back.

You need the athletic guys and the muscle - we only have the athletic guys, as usual, on this team. Not enough size.     



 

[ScoobyDoo]

And why haven't we gone out and signed either Whiteside or Howard - just some big body for the vet min to hold us over until Time Lord comes back? If Horford goes down, our center rotation is Kornet, Vonleh and Griffin and our power forward is Grant Williams. If that happens we're tiny and we suck a lot. At least Al is 36 though, so we should be good with him carrying the heavy load...

Very poor decision making on team construction by Brad this year. jalen Smith and Andre Drummond, or similar, were easy pickings this off season. 

[tenn_smoothie]

The sky is falling, we lost 2 games in a row.

This is sort of a meaningless post, no?

Contribute something.  Can you defend the decision not to have a competent backup big on the roster, or add to the coaching staff?

The meaning I derived from Jvalin’s post: it is early and people freaked out last year when the Celtics were in rough shape. People were complaining about Ime. Now let’s blame Brad and Muzzala.

My experience is that fans are often emotional and impatient.

Also, I don’t think the Celtics are the best team in the league. They are behind Mil and GS. I think they were fortunate to get to the Finals last year.

I think you are correct, so all the more reason to improve the roster beyond just the pickup of Brogdon, which was huge.
But that is the problem, isn't it ? Brad has done well acquiring perimeter guys, but is clueless about the importance of post players.