Author Topic: Jackie Mac on Hayward  (Read 9908 times)

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Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2019, 04:22:07 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Apparently, according to NESN, Irving called and apologized to Hayward over that outburst after that Orlando Magic game.

This is actually pretty strange. Gordon says in the interview with Jackie that "he didn't think there was enough time to get the shot off". This play came off a timeout, 3.6 seconds left. Ball was in the frontcourt Hayward inbounding. Horford sets up at the top of the key with good position against Vuch. Horford is WIDE open to receive the pass to hand-off to Kyrie who is standing around mid-court ready to run downhill. Hayward instead CHOOSES to inbound to Tatum on a curl for a tough turnaround.

There is ZERO reason for Hayward not following the play - there was going to be 3.6 left if he threw it in to Horford (as was the plan), or if he threw it to Tatum. It sounds like he just made a snap decision (and not a very good one considering Tatum had a close trailer, and was moving away from the basket) to go against what Brad drew up.

It's either bonehead moment - or a mutiny. It's worth looking at for yourself.
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2019, 04:31:44 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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Apparently, according to NESN, Irving called and apologized to Hayward over that outburst after that Orlando Magic game.

This is actually pretty strange. Gordon says in the interview with Jackie that "he didn't think there was enough time to get the shot off". This play came off a timeout, 3.6 seconds left. Ball was in the frontcourt Hayward inbounding. Horford sets up at the top of the key with good position against Vuch. Horford is WIDE open to receive the pass to hand-off to Kyrie who is standing around mid-court ready to run downhill. Hayward instead CHOOSES to inbound to Tatum on a curl for a tough turnaround.

There is ZERO reason for Hayward not following the play - there was going to be 3.6 left if he threw it in to Horford (as was the plan), or if he threw it to Tatum. It sounds like he just made a snap decision (and not a very good one considering Tatum had a close trailer, and was moving away from the basket) to go against what Brad drew up.

It's either bonehead moment - or a mutiny. It's worth looking at for yourself.

I think that regardless of whether anybody was at fault on the play, the apology was for the outburst. Even if Hayward made a mistake, Kyrie shouldn't have freaked out so demonstrably. Anyway, it wouldn't have been a big deal if the spotlight wasn't so hard on Kyrie's free agency uncertainty this season.

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2019, 05:40:54 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Apparently, according to NESN, Irving called and apologized to Hayward over that outburst after that Orlando Magic game.

This is actually pretty strange. Gordon says in the interview with Jackie that "he didn't think there was enough time to get the shot off". This play came off a timeout, 3.6 seconds left. Ball was in the frontcourt Hayward inbounding. Horford sets up at the top of the key with good position against Vuch. Horford is WIDE open to receive the pass to hand-off to Kyrie who is standing around mid-court ready to run downhill. Hayward instead CHOOSES to inbound to Tatum on a curl for a tough turnaround.

There is ZERO reason for Hayward not following the play - there was going to be 3.6 left if he threw it in to Horford (as was the plan), or if he threw it to Tatum. It sounds like he just made a snap decision (and not a very good one considering Tatum had a close trailer, and was moving away from the basket) to go against what Brad drew up.

It's either bonehead moment - or a mutiny. It's worth looking at for yourself.

I think that regardless of whether anybody was at fault on the play, the apology was for the outburst. Even if Hayward made a mistake, Kyrie shouldn't have freaked out so demonstrably. Anyway, it wouldn't have been a big deal if the spotlight wasn't so hard on Kyrie's free agency uncertainty this season.

No doubt, no doubt. Agreed. The point I am trying to make is that Hayward still says "I thought there wasn't enough time".. well OK, when did he decide that?? Whenever the ball was released, and to whomever, there was always going to be 3.6 left. He should have passed the ball to Horford. Seemingly not understanding that he did something categorically wrong - so, at best, a boneheaded play.
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #63 on: March 21, 2019, 02:32:27 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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My definition of the term  is completely correct. And the report states it was his back that was atrophied. No reason for that at all. a broken foot will not effect working on your back.


You're wrong.

He's not though.  Hayward has been weight bearing since the middle of last season.  Nothing was stopping him from working on his core or doing trunk extensions.

Core exercises and trunk extensions are not even close to the same thing as playing full-court, full-contact basketball... let alone professional basketball game after game for months. I’ve always noticed the my back is the most sore after I go for awhile without playing full-court hoops. But I run year-round and work on all muscle groups at the gym. Functional, specific strength isn’t something you can isolate well in the gym. Not to mention your foot is part of the kinetic chain and everything affects everything else. Etc.

This would all be a good point if they didn't specifically say in the article the muscles in his back had actually atrophied.  This is something that happens to teenagers who sit around all day playing fortnight, not world class athletes with every resource in the world available to them during the rehabilitation process. 

Hayward is a guy who got paid and stopped being hungry.  It happens.  He now shows upto work when he wants to (and only when he wants to).  He's not terrible - his per 36 numbers this season are all in line with his career numbers.

But he's never going to be the guy everyone wants him to be... He wasn't even that guy in Utah.  The Celtics will most likely move on from him this offseason (if they can find a taker).

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2019, 02:49:46 PM »

Offline seancally

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My definition of the term  is completely correct. And the report states it was his back that was atrophied. No reason for that at all. a broken foot will not effect working on your back.


You're wrong.

He's not though.  Hayward has been weight bearing since the middle of last season.  Nothing was stopping him from working on his core or doing trunk extensions.

Core exercises and trunk extensions are not even close to the same thing as playing full-court, full-contact basketball... let alone professional basketball game after game for months. I’ve always noticed the my back is the most sore after I go for awhile without playing full-court hoops. But I run year-round and work on all muscle groups at the gym. Functional, specific strength isn’t something you can isolate well in the gym. Not to mention your foot is part of the kinetic chain and everything affects everything else. Etc.

This would all be a good point if they didn't specifically say in the article the muscles in his back had actually atrophied.  This is something that happens to teenagers who sit around all day playing fortnight, not world class athletes with every resource in the world available to them during the rehabilitation process. 

Hayward is a guy who got paid and stopped being hungry.  It happens.  He now shows upto work when he wants to (and only when he wants to).  He's not terrible - his per 36 numbers this season are all in line with his career numbers.

But he's never going to be the guy everyone wants him to be... He wasn't even that guy in Utah.  The Celtics will most likely move on from him this offseason (if they can find a taker).

Yes, the muscles atrophied after... however many months of sitting in a chair and being unable to exercise in ways that would allow him to maintain peak fitness. There are not a lot of exercises you can do for your back that don't require a base of lower body stability, and that actually make a difference in terms of dynamic, functional strength... i.e., once again, lying on your belly and doing lower back extensions are not going to make a $%#&ing difference in terms of fullcourt, fast-paced, contact basketball. It just won't do it.

I really, really doubt he's making the calls about "when he shows up to work." That's on coaching staff and trainers.

Not sure what your last point is, that he wasn't even that guy in Utah - what's that, not an all-star, not borderline all-NBA? 24/6/3 in the playoffs?

But, fine, be hardheaded about how muscles work and what a lifelong top-tier athlete's motivation and work ethic is like.
"The game honors toughness." - President Stevens

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2019, 02:51:10 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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My definition of the term  is completely correct. And the report states it was his back that was atrophied. No reason for that at all. a broken foot will not effect working on your back.


You're wrong.

He's not though.  Hayward has been weight bearing since the middle of last season.  Nothing was stopping him from working on his core or doing trunk extensions.

Core exercises and trunk extensions are not even close to the same thing as playing full-court, full-contact basketball... let alone professional basketball game after game for months. I’ve always noticed the my back is the most sore after I go for awhile without playing full-court hoops. But I run year-round and work on all muscle groups at the gym. Functional, specific strength isn’t something you can isolate well in the gym. Not to mention your foot is part of the kinetic chain and everything affects everything else. Etc.

This would all be a good point if they didn't specifically say in the article the muscles in his back had actually atrophied.  This is something that happens to teenagers who sit around all day playing fortnight, not world class athletes with every resource in the world available to them during the rehabilitation process. 

Hayward is a guy who got paid and stopped being hungry.  It happens.  He now shows upto work when he wants to (and only when he wants to).  He's not terrible - his per 36 numbers this season are all in line with his career numbers.

But he's never going to be the guy everyone wants him to be... He wasn't even that guy in Utah.  The Celtics will most likely move on from him this offseason (if they can find a taker).

What a bizarre take

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #66 on: March 21, 2019, 03:14:05 PM »

Offline footey

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Whenever Hayward struggles, I go back and watch YouTube highlights of his games in Utah.

Keeping the hope alive we will get that guy again.  He was so incredibly aggressive, both on offense and defense. A real resolute shot blocker and dunker. 

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #67 on: March 21, 2019, 03:41:54 PM »

Offline CF033

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I have to admit I underestimated his injury and how long it would take to get back into it this year, although we really don't know if he'll ever get back to his Utah days.

I feel bad for the guy though. The injury has robbed him of at least two NBA seasons and a big chunk of his prime.

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #68 on: March 21, 2019, 04:03:22 PM »

Offline seancally

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Whenever Hayward struggles, I go back and watch YouTube highlights of his games in Utah.

Keeping the hope alive we will get that guy again.  He was so incredibly aggressive, both on offense and defense. A real resolute shot blocker and dunker.

I also find it helpful to watch Paul George highlights this year... he's the case for coming back literally better than ever.
"The game honors toughness." - President Stevens

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #69 on: March 21, 2019, 04:07:47 PM »

Offline liam

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Whenever Hayward struggles, I go back and watch YouTube highlights of his games in Utah.

Keeping the hope alive we will get that guy again.  He was so incredibly aggressive, both on offense and defense. A real resolute shot blocker and dunker.

I also find it helpful to watch Paul George highlights this year... he's the case for coming back literally better than ever.

Paul George looked like toast for a bunch of the year he came back in. I didn't think he'd ever be a top player again but he looks good now and he dissed the Lakers.... ;D

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #70 on: March 21, 2019, 04:38:30 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Whenever Hayward struggles, I go back and watch YouTube highlights of his games in Utah.

Keeping the hope alive we will get that guy again.  He was so incredibly aggressive, both on offense and defense. A real resolute shot blocker and dunker.



 Hey was very good in Utah. I wouldn't say he was incredibly aggressive though. That's always been my general complaint with him. Not aggressive enough.

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #71 on: March 21, 2019, 04:53:28 PM »

Offline Silky

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I dont think allstar utah gordon is a good fit on this team and remain locked in that he is traded next season

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #72 on: March 21, 2019, 05:26:22 PM »

Offline footey

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I dont think allstar utah gordon is a good fit on this team and remain locked in that he is traded next season
I don’t get this at all.

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #73 on: March 21, 2019, 05:28:38 PM »

Offline footey

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Whenever Hayward struggles, I go back and watch YouTube highlights of his games in Utah.

Keeping the hope alive we will get that guy again.  He was so incredibly aggressive, both on offense and defense. A real resolute shot blocker and dunker.



 Hey was very good in Utah. I wouldn't say he was incredibly aggressive though. That's always been my general complaint with him. Not aggressive enough.

Is your complaint based on how he plays now?

Re: Jackie Mac on Hayward
« Reply #74 on: March 21, 2019, 06:01:36 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I dont think allstar utah gordon is a good fit on this team and remain locked in that he is traded next season
I don’t get this at all.

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