CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: Ed Hollison on May 16, 2018, 08:32:43 AM
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Yesterday of course Lebron took a wicked shoulder to the jaw from Tatum, after which he knelt on the floor for a minute, gathered himself, and them went directly into the locker room. ABC showed that he was clearly walking slowly and gingerly. Then, a few minutes later, he was back in the game.
I wasn't surprised that Lebron came back into the game. But what was surprising was the total lack of the word "concussion" used by the broadcast team. This morning I also haven't heard anyone mention this. The official story is that Lebron suffered a "neck strain", but I haven't heard any more detail than that.
Here is the text from the NBA's official summary of its concussion protocol:
Concussion Evaluation. If a player is suspected of having a concussion, or exhibits the signs or symptoms of concussion, he will be removed from participation by either a team physician or the player’s team athletic trainer and undergo evaluation in a quiet, distraction-free environment conducive to conducting a neurological evaluation.
Serial Evaluation. If a player undergoes a concussion evaluation and is not diagnosed with a concussion, the team’s medical staff will continue to monitor the player, and the player will undergo at least another concussion evaluation by the medical staff prior to the team’s next game or practice or approximately 24 hours after the initial concussion evaluation (whichever is first). If the player subsequently develops any signs or symptoms of concussion, the player will immediately be removed from participation and will undergo a concussion evaluation.
Did Lebron James exhibit any signs of a concussion? Judging from the broadcast, I certainly suspected that he may have suffered one. Was he evaluated by a team doctor? Or was he just sent back on the floor with the diagnosis of a "neck strain" to avoid the possibility that he might miss the remainder of game 2 and beyond?
I'm not saying there's some grand conspiracy here, and even if there were, it wouldn't get close to what we know about the NFL's crooked approach. But this whole episode warrants some discussion and acknowledgement, at least.
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That document is here for anyone who's curious:
http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/09/Concussion-Program-Summary-2016-17.pdf
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I doubt he had a concussion as he was hit in the jaw, which rarely leads to concussions. Neck strains, however, are fairly common with jaw hits, since the neck usually jerks on those type of hits.
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Didn't Lebron once say that he doesn't get concussions?
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I doubt he had a concussion as he was hit in the jaw, which rarely leads to concussions. Neck strains, however, are fairly common with jaw hits, since the neck usually jerks on those type of hits.
I don't know whether he got a concussion, but hits to the jaw are very common causes of concussions.
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I'm assuming they checked him when he went to the locker room and he didn't exhibit signs of it. They might not have formally admitted it though to avoid the Concussion Protocol during the next three days though.
LBJ isn't going to say anything either way, he'll play game 3.
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Not sure if it was ignored in the locker room or not but it sure looked like a concussion to me. Walking in the hallway to the locker room, he had a very hard time. He was almost "out" on his feet.
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I'm assuming they checked him when he went to the locker room and he didn't exhibit signs of it. They might not have formally admitted it though to avoid the Concussion Protocol during the next three days though.
LBJ isn't going to say anything either way, he'll play game 3.
If he exhibited no signs, then the only thing the protocol requires is checking him again the next day. If they checked him and found no symptoms, there's not really any reason not to say so (other than thinking that he won't pass today)
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I'm assuming they checked him when he went to the locker room and he didn't exhibit signs of it. They might not have formally admitted it though to avoid the Concussion Protocol during the next three days though.
LBJ isn't going to say anything either way, he'll play game 3.
If he exhibited no signs, then the only thing the protocol requires is checking him again the next day. If they checked him and found no symptoms, there's not really any reason not to say so (other than thinking that he won't pass today)
Yeah that's the point. Was he assessed for symptoms? Because there's a strong incentive for the organization and the player to just say "let's go with neck strain" or simply to not even conduct any exam knowing what it might discover.
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I'm assuming they checked him when he went to the locker room and he didn't exhibit signs of it. They might not have formally admitted it though to avoid the Concussion Protocol during the next three days though.
LBJ isn't going to say anything either way, he'll play game 3.
If he exhibited no signs, then the only thing the protocol requires is checking him again the next day. If they checked him and found no symptoms, there's not really any reason not to say so (other than thinking that he won't pass today)
Yeah that's the point. Was he assessed for symptoms? Because there's a strong incentive for the organization and the player to just say "let's go with neck strain" or simply to not even conduct any exam knowing what it might discover.
What's the incentive for Lebron ?
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Suspect judgement
if it was a Celtics player , out 12 weeks
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Not going to hurt his thick head
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I'm assuming they checked him when he went to the locker room and he didn't exhibit signs of it. They might not have formally admitted it though to avoid the Concussion Protocol during the next three days though.
LBJ isn't going to say anything either way, he'll play game 3.
If he exhibited no signs, then the only thing the protocol requires is checking him again the next day. If they checked him and found no symptoms, there's not really any reason not to say so (other than thinking that he won't pass today)
Yeah that's the point. Was he assessed for symptoms? Because there's a strong incentive for the organization and the player to just say "let's go with neck strain" or simply to not even conduct any exam knowing what it might discover.
Yeah I just think if he has some headaches like Al did he'd probably not say anything in this situation. Which isn't good, but what athletes have done consistently when faced with possibly missing playoff/important games in multiple sports.
I don't think the doctor's did anything wrong, just saying what I think could have happened. Hopefully it really is just a neck strain and the C's can just come out and beat him the next two games with him on the court.
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He was definitely concussed. A whiplash event like that shakes the brain enough to hit the inner skull. The signs of falling to his knee on the court, the daze look, and the walk to the locker room watching the floor are easy enough to see.
What becomes questionable is the handling of the protocol. He manages to come back into the game despite less than four minutes remaining in the half is what makes this difficult to believe. Those protocols are supposed to be excessively thorough, so how did LeBron manage to be through them in less than 10 minutes?
Along with the quick tests, the broadcasters actively sought to use any other words than concussion despite pointing out how dazed and different LeBron looked. I understand that this player is vital for the game and the product, but with all likelihood, LeBron James was concussed and the Cavs and league didn't enforce the protocol.
It shouldn't matter to the Celtics anymore, but it goes to show the League and its friends are willing to break their own rules when it is self-serving. It also means that LeBron might have a hard time in the next week or two with arising symptons.
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Concussions are hard to evaluate. Often they are asymptomatic for hours after the physical event and diagnosis is based highly on patient self reporting symptoms.
I don't see how you can say "he was definitely concussed". Not every collision that shakes player up is a concussion. He very well might have been, but to use such certainty is irresponsible.
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After Lebron returned, he didn't show any signs of a concussion, and he wasn't in the locker room all that long. Makes me think he wasn't concussed. He just took a hard shot and needed a second to shake it off
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LeBron was asked after the game if he was tested for a concussion
He then Proceeds to say “I was tested for a bunch of things. I was good”
He never said yes or no to the question. They absolutely ignored the concussion protocol
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After Lebron returned, he didn't show any signs of a concussion, and he wasn't in the locker room all that long. Makes me think he wasn't concussed. He just took a hard shot and needed a second to shake it off
he played different and not very well after he returned. We pulled away.
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LeBron was asked after the game if he was tested for a concussion
He then Proceeds to say “I was tested for a bunch of things. I was good”
He never said yes or no to the question. They absolutely ignored the concussion protocol
This is some serious 1 + 1 = Apple logic here.
How does his non-answer indicate that the Cavs violated the protocol? Do you know what the protocol calls for?
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LeBron was asked after the game if he was tested for a concussion
He then Proceeds to say “I was tested for a bunch of things. I was good”
He never said yes or no to the question. They absolutely ignored the concussion protocol
This is some serious 1 + 1 = Apple logic here.
How does his non-answer indicate that the Cavs violated the protocol? Do you know what the protocol calls for?
his answer was one of many data points in my belief that it was ignored. The glassy eyes, wobbly walk back, 5 minutes in locker room, poor play when he returned, ignoring use of word concussion during post game conference, etc
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Yeah, this seems like a detail not worth analyzing, considering that you're not going to be able to run to the Commissioner and say that Lebron shouldn't be playing.
Lebron will play game 3, concussion or not. Celtics fans hoping that the league is going to step in and make him sit will be disappointed.
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They probably did. Too much to lose at this point.
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LeBron was asked after the game if he was tested for a concussion
He then Proceeds to say “I was tested for a bunch of things. I was good”
He never said yes or no to the question. They absolutely ignored the concussion protocol
This is some serious 1 + 1 = Apple logic here.
How does his non-answer indicate that the Cavs violated the protocol? Do you know what the protocol calls for?
his answer was one of many data points in my belief that it was ignored. The glassy eyes, wobbly walk back, 5 minutes in locker room, poor play when he returned, ignoring use of word concussion during post game conference, etc
He played 20 minutes in the second half and put up 17 6 6 on .57 TS% with 2 TOs. Didn't move as much in transition or defense, but that's consistent with a strained neck
You already decided he had a concussion and thus they defacto violated it because he played in the second half. The fact that he was checked out and cleared is irrelevant to you I guess. Heck even if he develops one today (which happened to Horford after he finished a game) that's not a violation of the protocol.
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After Lebron returned, he didn't show any signs of a concussion, and he wasn't in the locker room all that long. Makes me think he wasn't concussed. He just took a hard shot and needed a second to shake it off
he played different and not very well after he returned. We pulled away.
He played differently because he played at such an eite level in the entire 1st half that he couldn't maintain that level. If he mainrained the same level of play as he did in the 1st half he probably would have put up 60/18/25. Even in not playing as well as he was up until the injury, he still played great, its the rest of the team that sucked.
He simply showed zero signs of being concussed after returning. He produced at a high level. He never looked shaky or weak. He spoke normally during the press conference. I believe he wasn't concussed based on what I saw from him on the court, on the sidelines and after the game.
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No. Concussion protocol means you are taken out of the game and checked for signs of concussion, he was. He didn't have any so he went back in. This is simple.
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Silver doesn’t have the basketballs to look into this. Clearly he should have been examined. Play by the rules. This series over if he was put into protocol.
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No. Concussion protocol means you are taken out of the game and checked for signs of concussion, he was. He didn't have any so he went back in. This is simple.
You don’t know this. On what evidence?
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I'm assuming they checked him when he went to the locker room and he didn't exhibit signs of it. They might not have formally admitted it though to avoid the Concussion Protocol during the next three days though.
LBJ isn't going to say anything either way, he'll play game 3.
If he exhibited no signs, then the only thing the protocol requires is checking him again the next day. If they checked him and found no symptoms, there's not really any reason not to say so (other than thinking that he won't pass today)
Yeah that's the point. Was he assessed for symptoms? Because there's a strong incentive for the organization and the player to just say "let's go with neck strain" or simply to not even conduct any exam knowing what it might discover.
What's the incentive for Lebron ?
To play through a concussion? Making the finals.
To not play through a concussion? His long term health
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I'm assuming they checked him when he went to the locker room and he didn't exhibit signs of it. They might not have formally admitted it though to avoid the Concussion Protocol during the next three days though.
LBJ isn't going to say anything either way, he'll play game 3.
If he exhibited no signs, then the only thing the protocol requires is checking him again the next day. If they checked him and found no symptoms, there's not really any reason not to say so (other than thinking that he won't pass today)
Yeah that's the point. Was he assessed for symptoms? Because there's a strong incentive for the organization and the player to just say "let's go with neck strain" or simply to not even conduct any exam knowing what it might discover.
What's the incentive for Lebron ?
To play through a concussion? Making the finals.
To not play through a concussion? His long term health
Lebron is smart, he knows he wont beat the Warriors, why sacrifice his health?
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He seemed fine laughing and joking with Love at his presser.
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Amazingly, Tatum may have been the cause of concussions to Cleveland's two best players in this series.
What do we people think happens with Love? My first instinct was that the Cavs medical staff will find a way to avoid a concussion diagnosis and roll him out there for game 7. What complicates the issue is that he already suffered a concussion in March (so I heard), so they may be more careful.
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Lebron can’t get concussions. He’s a machine.
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Amazingly, Tatum may have been the cause of concussions to Cleveland's two best players in this series.
What do we people think happens with Love? My first instinct was that the Cavs medical staff will find a way to avoid a concussion diagnosis and roll him out there for game 7. What complicates the issue is that he already suffered a concussion in March (so I heard), so they may be more careful.
Why should Love want to play if he is concussed? if they lose he takes the blame if they win they praise Lebron, in a very losable situation, and even if they win there is massacre waiting ahead
Plus people will still call him soft even if he force to play because Tatum is the one stand after the collision and he is on the ground.
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Lebron can’t get concussions. He’s a machine.
I don't know if you are joking but i am starting to believe that he is !