Poll

Who you got at #14? (players are listed in random order)

Tyrell Terry
13 (24.5%)
Patrick Williams
6 (11.3%)
Precious Achiuwa
4 (7.5%)
R.J. Hampton
4 (7.5%)
Aleksej Pokusevski
3 (5.7%)
Saddiq Bey
5 (9.4%)
Jalen Smith
4 (7.5%)
Aaron Nesmith
8 (15.1%)
Kira Lewis Jr.
3 (5.7%)
Cole Anthony
2 (3.8%)
other (please name below and I'll include him in the poll)
1 (1.9%)

Total Members Voted: 53

Author Topic: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)  (Read 117022 times)

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Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #615 on: October 14, 2020, 02:30:12 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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i cannot believe that some people think ainge has hurt this team by accumulating 3 first round draft picks.  ::)

if this is the sort of woes that ainge brings to the celtics then we are very fortunate to have him as the GM.

Ummm I think you're not looking at every aspect of what I said or what ainge has done.

For the most part ainge has been great but there's definitely things he has either ignored or been flat out bad at - example acquiring a solid big.

A few things about that. First of all, in a rebuild your roster is not always figured out perfectly. Secondly, he did get Amir Johnson (when he was still a positive impact player), Al Horford, and Aron Baynes. He also signed a German center that was a starter this year and held his own at that position. He then signed Enes Kanter. He drafted a big man in Rob Williams that I know many fans want to write off, but still has some very dynamic upside.

The Cs don't have an all-star center because they have all-star guards and forwards. You can't realistically have all-stars at every position.

I'm on board with getting a center that would move Theis to a backup role. I'd like that upgraded as well. But this narrative that Ainge doesn't ever get big men is simply untrue. He doesn't get bad big men that are celticstrong forum binkies, but that doesn't mean he's done poorly.

I agree and would add that the "Celtics need bigs" narrative is partially grown out of the NBA's past. Years ago every team started a 6'10+ 240lbs+ center and along side him a 6'8+ 240lb+ Power Forward. Not that long ago KG and Duncan where 7' 250+ Power forwards player along side equally big centers.

In today's NBA most teams have one big on the court at a time and show some sort of "small ball" lineup. In this current NBA environment teams roster less bigs and it takes unique skills sets to be a productive big on a playoff team. Look at the finals, the lakers who played big all season with Mcgee starting and Dwight backing him up went to a one big lineup with Davis.

Its easy to watch Bam taking it to the Cs and say "DA need to get a big to match up" but who? On paper R Williams is a great match-up but he struggles in P&R. Modern bigs are the toughest architype to find and also the easiest to play without.   

This is why if the C's move way up my target would be Okongwu.  If you have a "big" who excels at defense and can also score a bit....golden.  He's agile enough to help some on the perimeter too.
I mean, would Okongwu's presence not be good against Giannis?  Bam?  AD?  I think it would be a good presence. I liked our committee of bigs this year but there's only so much a committee can do.

Second favorite move up target would be tie between Vassell and Halliburton, and third favorite move up target is P. Williams.

I like Okongwu, but the hype on this Board is getting out of hand. 

He is not the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain. 

Nor of Bam Adebayo.

Okongwu is more like the 2nd coming of Capela.... but is a smidge more explosive and has more promising offensive capabilities.  Jump shot still needs work

However the guy is really explosive,  strong and hardworking.   His ability to guard multiple positions, block shots and grab rebounds out of nowhere, is Adebayoish/Tristant Thompson

Okongwu is likely to disappoint most fans. I believe he would be a marginal upgrade from Theis and and likely a Tristan Thompson level starting center. He is a big (like Theis) who you can start and play in the playoffs given his mobility and versatility but any dreams of him being the versatile offensive player Bam is seem really fare fetched. He is totally worth a lottery pick because he can plug in and play center in the modern NBA something most  bigs can not do.   
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 03:53:30 PM by CFAN38 »
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Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #616 on: October 14, 2020, 04:17:52 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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i cannot believe that some people think ainge has hurt this team by accumulating 3 first round draft picks.  ::)

if this is the sort of woes that ainge brings to the celtics then we are very fortunate to have him as the GM.

Ummm I think you're not looking at every aspect of what I said or what ainge has done.

For the most part ainge has been great but there's definitely things he has either ignored or been flat out bad at - example acquiring a solid big.

A few things about that. First of all, in a rebuild your roster is not always figured out perfectly. Secondly, he did get Amir Johnson (when he was still a positive impact player), Al Horford, and Aron Baynes. He also signed a German center that was a starter this year and held his own at that position. He then signed Enes Kanter. He drafted a big man in Rob Williams that I know many fans want to write off, but still has some very dynamic upside.

The Cs don't have an all-star center because they have all-star guards and forwards. You can't realistically have all-stars at every position.

I'm on board with getting a center that would move Theis to a backup role. I'd like that upgraded as well. But this narrative that Ainge doesn't ever get big men is simply untrue. He doesn't get bad big men that are celticstrong forum binkies, but that doesn't mean he's done poorly.

I agree and would add that the "Celtics need bigs" narrative is partially grown out of the NBA's past. Years ago every team started a 6'10+ 240lbs+ center and along side him a 6'8+ 240lb+ Power Forward. Not that long ago KG and Duncan where 7' 250+ Power forwards player along side equally big centers.

In today's NBA most teams have one big on the court at a time and show some sort of "small ball" lineup. In this current NBA environment teams roster less bigs and it takes unique skills sets to be a productive big on a playoff team. Look at the finals, the lakers who played big all season with Mcgee starting and Dwight backing him up went to a one big lineup with Davis.

Its easy to watch Bam taking it to the Cs and say "DA need to get a big to match up" but who? On paper R Williams is a great match-up but he struggles in P&R. Modern bigs are the toughest architype to find and also the easiest to play without.   

This is why if the C's move way up my target would be Okongwu.  If you have a "big" who excels at defense and can also score a bit....golden.  He's agile enough to help some on the perimeter too.
I mean, would Okongwu's presence not be good against Giannis?  Bam?  AD?  I think it would be a good presence. I liked our committee of bigs this year but there's only so much a committee can do.

Second favorite move up target would be tie between Vassell and Halliburton, and third favorite move up target is P. Williams.

I like Okongwu, but the hype on this Board is getting out of hand. 

He is not the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain. 

Nor of Bam Adebayo.

Okongwu is more like the 2nd coming of Capela.... but is a smidge more explosive and has more promising offensive capabilities.  Jump shot still needs work

However the guy is really explosive,  strong and hardworking.   His ability to guard multiple positions, block shots and grab rebounds out of nowhere, is Adebayoish/Tristant Thompson

Okongwu is likely to disappoint most fans. I believe he would be a marginal upgrade from Theis and and likely a Tristan Thompson level starting center. He is a big (like Theis) who you can start and play in the playoffs given his mobility and versatility but any dreams of him being the versatile offensive player Bam is seem really fare fetched. He is totally worth a lottery pick because he can plug in and play center in the modern NBA something most  bigs can not do.   

Tristan Thompson was and is so raw as a scorer. The reason he was picked high was because there was a hope that someone could shape that raw ability, but it never really did happen. I think Okongwu already shows a lot more scoring ability than Thompson did at the same age. His defense was always more potential than actual. He does have some versatility, but he's neither a rim protector nor a reliable switch big man. Thompson would have flamed out of the league a long time ago if he didn't develop the ability to play really, really hard when he was on the court. That effort redeems his so-so offensive and defensive abilities.

Overall, however, I do agree that his impact on the court will likely be a Tristan Thompson-level center in the NBA. That, however, would be a valuable piece to add to the Celtics.

Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #617 on: October 14, 2020, 04:21:51 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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i cannot believe that some people think ainge has hurt this team by accumulating 3 first round draft picks.  ::)

if this is the sort of woes that ainge brings to the celtics then we are very fortunate to have him as the GM.

Ummm I think you're not looking at every aspect of what I said or what ainge has done.

For the most part ainge has been great but there's definitely things he has either ignored or been flat out bad at - example acquiring a solid big.

A few things about that. First of all, in a rebuild your roster is not always figured out perfectly. Secondly, he did get Amir Johnson (when he was still a positive impact player), Al Horford, and Aron Baynes. He also signed a German center that was a starter this year and held his own at that position. He then signed Enes Kanter. He drafted a big man in Rob Williams that I know many fans want to write off, but still has some very dynamic upside.

The Cs don't have an all-star center because they have all-star guards and forwards. You can't realistically have all-stars at every position.

I'm on board with getting a center that would move Theis to a backup role. I'd like that upgraded as well. But this narrative that Ainge doesn't ever get big men is simply untrue. He doesn't get bad big men that are celticstrong forum binkies, but that doesn't mean he's done poorly.

I agree and would add that the "Celtics need bigs" narrative is partially grown out of the NBA's past. Years ago every team started a 6'10+ 240lbs+ center and along side him a 6'8+ 240lb+ Power Forward. Not that long ago KG and Duncan where 7' 250+ Power forwards player along side equally big centers.

In today's NBA most teams have one big on the court at a time and show some sort of "small ball" lineup. In this current NBA environment teams roster less bigs and it takes unique skills sets to be a productive big on a playoff team. Look at the finals, the lakers who played big all season with Mcgee starting and Dwight backing him up went to a one big lineup with Davis.

Its easy to watch Bam taking it to the Cs and say "DA need to get a big to match up" but who? On paper R Williams is a great match-up but he struggles in P&R. Modern bigs are the toughest architype to find and also the easiest to play without.   

This is why if the C's move way up my target would be Okongwu.  If you have a "big" who excels at defense and can also score a bit....golden.  He's agile enough to help some on the perimeter too.
I mean, would Okongwu's presence not be good against Giannis?  Bam?  AD?  I think it would be a good presence. I liked our committee of bigs this year but there's only so much a committee can do.

Second favorite move up target would be tie between Vassell and Halliburton, and third favorite move up target is P. Williams.

I like Okongwu, but the hype on this Board is getting out of hand. 

He is not the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain. 

Nor of Bam Adebayo.

Okongwu is more like the 2nd coming of Capela.... but is a smidge more explosive and has more promising offensive capabilities.  Jump shot still needs work

However the guy is really explosive,  strong and hardworking.   His ability to guard multiple positions, block shots and grab rebounds out of nowhere, is Adebayoish/Tristant Thompson

Okongwu is likely to disappoint most fans. I believe he would be a marginal upgrade from Theis and and likely a Tristan Thompson level starting center. He is a big (like Theis) who you can start and play in the playoffs given his mobility and versatility but any dreams of him being the versatile offensive player Bam is seem really fare fetched. He is totally worth a lottery pick because he can plug in and play center in the modern NBA something most  bigs can not do.   

Tristan Thompson was and is so raw as a scorer. The reason he was picked high was because there was a hope that someone could shape that raw ability, but it never really did happen. I think Okongwu already shows a lot more scoring ability than Thompson did at the same age. His defense was always more potential than actual. He does have some versatility, but he's neither a rim protector nor a reliable switch big man. Thompson would have flamed out of the league a long time ago if he didn't develop the ability to play really, really hard when he was on the court. That effort redeems his so-so offensive and defensive abilities.

Overall, however, I do agree that his impact on the court will likely be a Tristan Thompson-level center in the NBA. That, however, would be a valuable piece to add to the Celtics.

+1

Plus his jump shot needs work but is not Azubuike broken.


Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #618 on: October 14, 2020, 07:22:11 PM »

Offline gouki88

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i cannot believe that some people think ainge has hurt this team by accumulating 3 first round draft picks.  ::)

if this is the sort of woes that ainge brings to the celtics then we are very fortunate to have him as the GM.

Ummm I think you're not looking at every aspect of what I said or what ainge has done.

For the most part ainge has been great but there's definitely things he has either ignored or been flat out bad at - example acquiring a solid big.

A few things about that. First of all, in a rebuild your roster is not always figured out perfectly. Secondly, he did get Amir Johnson (when he was still a positive impact player), Al Horford, and Aron Baynes. He also signed a German center that was a starter this year and held his own at that position. He then signed Enes Kanter. He drafted a big man in Rob Williams that I know many fans want to write off, but still has some very dynamic upside.

The Cs don't have an all-star center because they have all-star guards and forwards. You can't realistically have all-stars at every position.

I'm on board with getting a center that would move Theis to a backup role. I'd like that upgraded as well. But this narrative that Ainge doesn't ever get big men is simply untrue. He doesn't get bad big men that are celticstrong forum binkies, but that doesn't mean he's done poorly.

I agree and would add that the "Celtics need bigs" narrative is partially grown out of the NBA's past. Years ago every team started a 6'10+ 240lbs+ center and along side him a 6'8+ 240lb+ Power Forward. Not that long ago KG and Duncan where 7' 250+ Power forwards player along side equally big centers.

In today's NBA most teams have one big on the court at a time and show some sort of "small ball" lineup. In this current NBA environment teams roster less bigs and it takes unique skills sets to be a productive big on a playoff team. Look at the finals, the lakers who played big all season with Mcgee starting and Dwight backing him up went to a one big lineup with Davis.

Its easy to watch Bam taking it to the Cs and say "DA need to get a big to match up" but who? On paper R Williams is a great match-up but he struggles in P&R. Modern bigs are the toughest architype to find and also the easiest to play without.   

This is why if the C's move way up my target would be Okongwu.  If you have a "big" who excels at defense and can also score a bit....golden.  He's agile enough to help some on the perimeter too.
I mean, would Okongwu's presence not be good against Giannis?  Bam?  AD?  I think it would be a good presence. I liked our committee of bigs this year but there's only so much a committee can do.

Second favorite move up target would be tie between Vassell and Halliburton, and third favorite move up target is P. Williams.

I like Okongwu, but the hype on this Board is getting out of hand. 

He is not the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain. 

Nor of Bam Adebayo.
His college game is near identical to Adebayo except Okongwu is much more productive
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #619 on: October 14, 2020, 08:17:04 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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i cannot believe that some people think ainge has hurt this team by accumulating 3 first round draft picks.  ::)

if this is the sort of woes that ainge brings to the celtics then we are very fortunate to have him as the GM.

Ummm I think you're not looking at every aspect of what I said or what ainge has done.

For the most part ainge has been great but there's definitely things he has either ignored or been flat out bad at - example acquiring a solid big.

A few things about that. First of all, in a rebuild your roster is not always figured out perfectly. Secondly, he did get Amir Johnson (when he was still a positive impact player), Al Horford, and Aron Baynes. He also signed a German center that was a starter this year and held his own at that position. He then signed Enes Kanter. He drafted a big man in Rob Williams that I know many fans want to write off, but still has some very dynamic upside.

The Cs don't have an all-star center because they have all-star guards and forwards. You can't realistically have all-stars at every position.

I'm on board with getting a center that would move Theis to a backup role. I'd like that upgraded as well. But this narrative that Ainge doesn't ever get big men is simply untrue. He doesn't get bad big men that are celticstrong forum binkies, but that doesn't mean he's done poorly.

I agree and would add that the "Celtics need bigs" narrative is partially grown out of the NBA's past. Years ago every team started a 6'10+ 240lbs+ center and along side him a 6'8+ 240lb+ Power Forward. Not that long ago KG and Duncan where 7' 250+ Power forwards player along side equally big centers.

In today's NBA most teams have one big on the court at a time and show some sort of "small ball" lineup. In this current NBA environment teams roster less bigs and it takes unique skills sets to be a productive big on a playoff team. Look at the finals, the lakers who played big all season with Mcgee starting and Dwight backing him up went to a one big lineup with Davis.

Its easy to watch Bam taking it to the Cs and say "DA need to get a big to match up" but who? On paper R Williams is a great match-up but he struggles in P&R. Modern bigs are the toughest architype to find and also the easiest to play without.   

This is why if the C's move way up my target would be Okongwu.  If you have a "big" who excels at defense and can also score a bit....golden.  He's agile enough to help some on the perimeter too.
I mean, would Okongwu's presence not be good against Giannis?  Bam?  AD?  I think it would be a good presence. I liked our committee of bigs this year but there's only so much a committee can do.

Second favorite move up target would be tie between Vassell and Halliburton, and third favorite move up target is P. Williams.

I like Okongwu, but the hype on this Board is getting out of hand. 

He is not the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain. 

Nor of Bam Adebayo.
His college game is near identical to Adebayo except Okongwu is much more productive

Projecting a Bam like development path is really flawed. Nothing from Bam’s college games would have predicted his ball skill and creation. Okongwu becoming Tristan Thompson is fate more likely and still a positive outcome
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Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #620 on: October 14, 2020, 08:55:54 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
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i cannot believe that some people think ainge has hurt this team by accumulating 3 first round draft picks.  ::)

if this is the sort of woes that ainge brings to the celtics then we are very fortunate to have him as the GM.

Ummm I think you're not looking at every aspect of what I said or what ainge has done.

For the most part ainge has been great but there's definitely things he has either ignored or been flat out bad at - example acquiring a solid big.

A few things about that. First of all, in a rebuild your roster is not always figured out perfectly. Secondly, he did get Amir Johnson (when he was still a positive impact player), Al Horford, and Aron Baynes. He also signed a German center that was a starter this year and held his own at that position. He then signed Enes Kanter. He drafted a big man in Rob Williams that I know many fans want to write off, but still has some very dynamic upside.

The Cs don't have an all-star center because they have all-star guards and forwards. You can't realistically have all-stars at every position.

I'm on board with getting a center that would move Theis to a backup role. I'd like that upgraded as well. But this narrative that Ainge doesn't ever get big men is simply untrue. He doesn't get bad big men that are celticstrong forum binkies, but that doesn't mean he's done poorly.

I agree and would add that the "Celtics need bigs" narrative is partially grown out of the NBA's past. Years ago every team started a 6'10+ 240lbs+ center and along side him a 6'8+ 240lb+ Power Forward. Not that long ago KG and Duncan where 7' 250+ Power forwards player along side equally big centers.

In today's NBA most teams have one big on the court at a time and show some sort of "small ball" lineup. In this current NBA environment teams roster less bigs and it takes unique skills sets to be a productive big on a playoff team. Look at the finals, the lakers who played big all season with Mcgee starting and Dwight backing him up went to a one big lineup with Davis.

Its easy to watch Bam taking it to the Cs and say "DA need to get a big to match up" but who? On paper R Williams is a great match-up but he struggles in P&R. Modern bigs are the toughest architype to find and also the easiest to play without.   

This is why if the C's move way up my target would be Okongwu.  If you have a "big" who excels at defense and can also score a bit....golden.  He's agile enough to help some on the perimeter too.
I mean, would Okongwu's presence not be good against Giannis?  Bam?  AD?  I think it would be a good presence. I liked our committee of bigs this year but there's only so much a committee can do.

Second favorite move up target would be tie between Vassell and Halliburton, and third favorite move up target is P. Williams.

I like Okongwu, but the hype on this Board is getting out of hand. 

He is not the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain. 

Nor of Bam Adebayo.
His college game is near identical to Adebayo except Okongwu is much more productive

Projecting a Bam like development path is really flawed. Nothing from Bam’s college games would have predicted his ball skill and creation. Okongwu becoming Tristan Thompson is fate more likely and still a positive outcome
I’m not trying to predict a Bam-like outcome, I just think there’s a middle point. He’s much more skilled on offence than TT in my opinion, and is more athletic
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #621 on: October 14, 2020, 10:06:41 PM »

Offline CFAN38

  • Antoine Walker
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  • Posts: 4878
  • Tommy Points: 420
i cannot believe that some people think ainge has hurt this team by accumulating 3 first round draft picks.  ::)

if this is the sort of woes that ainge brings to the celtics then we are very fortunate to have him as the GM.

Ummm I think you're not looking at every aspect of what I said or what ainge has done.

For the most part ainge has been great but there's definitely things he has either ignored or been flat out bad at - example acquiring a solid big.

A few things about that. First of all, in a rebuild your roster is not always figured out perfectly. Secondly, he did get Amir Johnson (when he was still a positive impact player), Al Horford, and Aron Baynes. He also signed a German center that was a starter this year and held his own at that position. He then signed Enes Kanter. He drafted a big man in Rob Williams that I know many fans want to write off, but still has some very dynamic upside.

The Cs don't have an all-star center because they have all-star guards and forwards. You can't realistically have all-stars at every position.

I'm on board with getting a center that would move Theis to a backup role. I'd like that upgraded as well. But this narrative that Ainge doesn't ever get big men is simply untrue. He doesn't get bad big men that are celticstrong forum binkies, but that doesn't mean he's done poorly.

I agree and would add that the "Celtics need bigs" narrative is partially grown out of the NBA's past. Years ago every team started a 6'10+ 240lbs+ center and along side him a 6'8+ 240lb+ Power Forward. Not that long ago KG and Duncan where 7' 250+ Power forwards player along side equally big centers.

In today's NBA most teams have one big on the court at a time and show some sort of "small ball" lineup. In this current NBA environment teams roster less bigs and it takes unique skills sets to be a productive big on a playoff team. Look at the finals, the lakers who played big all season with Mcgee starting and Dwight backing him up went to a one big lineup with Davis.

Its easy to watch Bam taking it to the Cs and say "DA need to get a big to match up" but who? On paper R Williams is a great match-up but he struggles in P&R. Modern bigs are the toughest architype to find and also the easiest to play without.   

This is why if the C's move way up my target would be Okongwu.  If you have a "big" who excels at defense and can also score a bit....golden.  He's agile enough to help some on the perimeter too.
I mean, would Okongwu's presence not be good against Giannis?  Bam?  AD?  I think it would be a good presence. I liked our committee of bigs this year but there's only so much a committee can do.

Second favorite move up target would be tie between Vassell and Halliburton, and third favorite move up target is P. Williams.

I like Okongwu, but the hype on this Board is getting out of hand. 

He is not the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain. 

Nor of Bam Adebayo.
His college game is near identical to Adebayo except Okongwu is much more productive

Projecting a Bam like development path is really flawed. Nothing from Bam’s college games would have predicted his ball skill and creation. Okongwu becoming Tristan Thompson is fate more likely and still a positive outcome
I’m not trying to predict a Bam-like outcome, I just think there’s a middle point. He’s much more skilled on offence than TT in my opinion, and is more athletic

I just see a lot of fans and media members just on the Okongwu could be the next Bam hype train. Bam is a true rarity with his Size, mobility and especially playmaking. Okongwu is smaller and hasn’t shown any of the playmaking. If anyone in this class has a chance to be Bam/lite it’s Precious. He is raw and slightly smaller but has more of the face up abilities and grab and go open court ball handling . 
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Hornet

Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #622 on: October 14, 2020, 10:14:10 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
i cannot believe that some people think ainge has hurt this team by accumulating 3 first round draft picks.  ::)

if this is the sort of woes that ainge brings to the celtics then we are very fortunate to have him as the GM.

Ummm I think you're not looking at every aspect of what I said or what ainge has done.

For the most part ainge has been great but there's definitely things he has either ignored or been flat out bad at - example acquiring a solid big.

A few things about that. First of all, in a rebuild your roster is not always figured out perfectly. Secondly, he did get Amir Johnson (when he was still a positive impact player), Al Horford, and Aron Baynes. He also signed a German center that was a starter this year and held his own at that position. He then signed Enes Kanter. He drafted a big man in Rob Williams that I know many fans want to write off, but still has some very dynamic upside.

The Cs don't have an all-star center because they have all-star guards and forwards. You can't realistically have all-stars at every position.

I'm on board with getting a center that would move Theis to a backup role. I'd like that upgraded as well. But this narrative that Ainge doesn't ever get big men is simply untrue. He doesn't get bad big men that are celticstrong forum binkies, but that doesn't mean he's done poorly.

I agree and would add that the "Celtics need bigs" narrative is partially grown out of the NBA's past. Years ago every team started a 6'10+ 240lbs+ center and along side him a 6'8+ 240lb+ Power Forward. Not that long ago KG and Duncan where 7' 250+ Power forwards player along side equally big centers.

In today's NBA most teams have one big on the court at a time and show some sort of "small ball" lineup. In this current NBA environment teams roster less bigs and it takes unique skills sets to be a productive big on a playoff team. Look at the finals, the lakers who played big all season with Mcgee starting and Dwight backing him up went to a one big lineup with Davis.

Its easy to watch Bam taking it to the Cs and say "DA need to get a big to match up" but who? On paper R Williams is a great match-up but he struggles in P&R. Modern bigs are the toughest architype to find and also the easiest to play without.   

This is why if the C's move way up my target would be Okongwu.  If you have a "big" who excels at defense and can also score a bit....golden.  He's agile enough to help some on the perimeter too.
I mean, would Okongwu's presence not be good against Giannis?  Bam?  AD?  I think it would be a good presence. I liked our committee of bigs this year but there's only so much a committee can do.

Second favorite move up target would be tie between Vassell and Halliburton, and third favorite move up target is P. Williams.

I like Okongwu, but the hype on this Board is getting out of hand. 

He is not the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain. 

Nor of Bam Adebayo.
His college game is near identical to Adebayo except Okongwu is much more productive

Projecting a Bam like development path is really flawed. Nothing from Bam’s college games would have predicted his ball skill and creation. Okongwu becoming Tristan Thompson is fate more likely and still a positive outcome
I’m not trying to predict a Bam-like outcome, I just think there’s a middle point. He’s much more skilled on offence than TT in my opinion, and is more athletic

I just see a lot of fans and media members just on the Okongwu could be the next Bam hype train. Bam is a true rarity with his Size, mobility and especially playmaking. Okongwu is smaller and hasn’t shown any of the playmaking. If anyone in this class has a chance to be Bam/lite it’s Precious. He is raw and slightly smaller but has more of the face up abilities and grab and go open court ball handling .

From a measurement standpoint, Okongwu and Bam are near identical.  6'9 with 7'1ish wingspan.  240 pounds

Bam in two seasons in the NBA definitely has beefed up. But Okongwu will probably do the same once in the NBA

In terms of playmaking Bam is above average but.... you make him sound like he is as "special" as Jokic.   I think Bam is pretty good but also it helps that he is surrounded by a strong supporting cast that make their open shots. Off handoffs alone he gets like 3 assists a game

In terms of overall passing skills.. Kelly is better than Bam....   


Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #623 on: October 15, 2020, 01:16:04 AM »

Offline Somebody

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What is this obsession with getting a "true centre" when we have an excellent one in Theis and some decent situational ones like Robert, Grant and Kanter to match up against bigs that Theis struggles against?
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Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #624 on: October 15, 2020, 01:23:00 AM »

Offline gouki88

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What is this obsession with getting a "true centre" when we have an excellent one in Theis and some decent situational ones like Robert, Grant and Kanter to match up against bigs that Theis struggles against?
I sadly don’t see Theis being able to stay long-term. Guys who were worse than him like ET and Olynyk got big offers in free agency that we struggled to come close to, and I feel like Theis will be similar sadly.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #625 on: October 15, 2020, 02:57:52 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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What is this obsession with getting a "true centre" when we have an excellent one in Theis and some decent situational ones like Robert, Grant and Kanter to match up against bigs that Theis struggles against?
I sadly don’t see Theis being able to stay long-term. Guys who were worse than him like ET and Olynyk got big offers in free agency that we struggled to come close to, and I feel like Theis will be similar sadly.
Turner signed with the Blazers in 2016 when the cap exploded from 70M to 94M. It was the same year the Warriors had enough cap space to sign KD. As for Kelly, we had to renounce him in order ro create max cap space for Hayward. If it weren't for Hayward, I bet we would have kept him.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/celtics-rescind-kelly-olynyks-qualifying-offer.html

According to projections, the cap will plateau at 109M the next couple of years. It's possible that we can re-sign Theis on a reasonable contract next year.

@Somebody
Wouldn't go so far as to say that Theis is an "excellent" Center. Imo, he's an excellent fit in our defensive system, but he leaves a lot to be desired on the offensive side of the ball. Like you said, I wouldn't swap him for a traditional Center. At the same time, I agree with gouki88 that we should try to upgrade the Center position.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 03:26:40 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #626 on: October 15, 2020, 03:53:53 AM »

Offline gouki88

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What is this obsession with getting a "true centre" when we have an excellent one in Theis and some decent situational ones like Robert, Grant and Kanter to match up against bigs that Theis struggles against?
I sadly don’t see Theis being able to stay long-term. Guys who were worse than him like ET and Olynyk got big offers in free agency that we struggled to come close to, and I feel like Theis will be similar sadly.
Turner signed with the Blazers in 2016 when the cap exploded from 70M to 94M. It was the same year the Warriors had enough cap space to sign KD. As for Kelly, we had to renounce him in order ro create max cap space for Hayward. If it weren't for Hayward, I bet we would have kept him.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/celtics-rescind-kelly-olynyks-qualifying-offer.html

According to projections, the cap will plateau at 109M the next couple of years. It's possible that we can re-sign Theis on a reasonable contract next year.

@Somebody
Wouldn't go so far as to say that Theis is an "excellent" Center. Imo, he's an excellent fit in our defensive system, but he leaves a lot to be desired on the offensive side of the ball. Like you said, I wouldn't swap him for a traditional Center. At the same time, I agree with gouki88 that we should try to upgrade the Center position.
I guess a lot depends on the development of Williams and any bigs we potentially draft. I value Theis’ defence and screening very highly, but think he’s pretty shocking offensively and as a rebounder. Would be happy to see us replace him if he starts looking for a significant contract upgrade
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #627 on: October 15, 2020, 08:51:17 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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What is this obsession with getting a "true centre" when we have an excellent one in Theis and some decent situational ones like Robert, Grant and Kanter to match up against bigs that Theis struggles against?
I sadly don’t see Theis being able to stay long-term. Guys who were worse than him like ET and Olynyk got big offers in free agency that we struggled to come close to, and I feel like Theis will be similar sadly.
Turner signed with the Blazers in 2016 when the cap exploded from 70M to 94M. It was the same year the Warriors had enough cap space to sign KD. As for Kelly, we had to renounce him in order ro create max cap space for Hayward. If it weren't for Hayward, I bet we would have kept him.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/celtics-rescind-kelly-olynyks-qualifying-offer.html

According to projections, the cap will plateau at 109M the next couple of years. It's possible that we can re-sign Theis on a reasonable contract next year.

@Somebody
Wouldn't go so far as to say that Theis is an "excellent" Center. Imo, he's an excellent fit in our defensive system, but he leaves a lot to be desired on the offensive side of the ball. Like you said, I wouldn't swap him for a traditional Center. At the same time, I agree with gouki88 that we should try to upgrade the Center position.
I guess a lot depends on the development of Williams and any bigs we potentially draft. I value Theis’ defence and screening very highly, but think he’s pretty shocking offensively and as a rebounder. Would be happy to see us replace him if he starts looking for a significant contract upgrade

Good thoughts. If we replaced Theis with a guy good at scoring/defense but bad at screening, our offense would look very different. Theis does the little things well. If we can find someone who is a bit better in some areas but is still a high-end team defender and screener, great! I'm not really interested in a flashy big man that can't do the little things to enable Tatum, Brown, and Walker to be great.

Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #628 on: October 15, 2020, 09:42:51 AM »

Offline Somebody

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What is this obsession with getting a "true centre" when we have an excellent one in Theis and some decent situational ones like Robert, Grant and Kanter to match up against bigs that Theis struggles against?
I sadly don’t see Theis being able to stay long-term. Guys who were worse than him like ET and Olynyk got big offers in free agency that we struggled to come close to, and I feel like Theis will be similar sadly.
Turner signed with the Blazers in 2016 when the cap exploded from 70M to 94M. It was the same year the Warriors had enough cap space to sign KD. As for Kelly, we had to renounce him in order ro create max cap space for Hayward. If it weren't for Hayward, I bet we would have kept him.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/celtics-rescind-kelly-olynyks-qualifying-offer.html

According to projections, the cap will plateau at 109M the next couple of years. It's possible that we can re-sign Theis on a reasonable contract next year.

@Somebody
Wouldn't go so far as to say that Theis is an "excellent" Center. Imo, he's an excellent fit in our defensive system, but he leaves a lot to be desired on the offensive side of the ball. Like you said, I wouldn't swap him for a traditional Center. At the same time, I agree with gouki88 that we should try to upgrade the Center position.
I meant "excellent" as in he's as good as a centre you can ask for among bigs who don't quite provide top 30-40 impact. His offence isn't that bad imo - he's an excellent sealer and screen-setter, an underrated passer and provides some floor spacing as well as finishing at the rim. But yeah I see your argument, I just feel that an "upgrade" on Theis without sacrificing the little things he does would mean an All-Starry big, and those don't grow on trees.
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Re: Who You Got with the 14th Pick? (Poll added)
« Reply #629 on: October 15, 2020, 09:48:44 AM »

Offline Somebody

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What is this obsession with getting a "true centre" when we have an excellent one in Theis and some decent situational ones like Robert, Grant and Kanter to match up against bigs that Theis struggles against?
I sadly don’t see Theis being able to stay long-term. Guys who were worse than him like ET and Olynyk got big offers in free agency that we struggled to come close to, and I feel like Theis will be similar sadly.
Turner signed with the Blazers in 2016 when the cap exploded from 70M to 94M. It was the same year the Warriors had enough cap space to sign KD. As for Kelly, we had to renounce him in order ro create max cap space for Hayward. If it weren't for Hayward, I bet we would have kept him.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/celtics-rescind-kelly-olynyks-qualifying-offer.html

According to projections, the cap will plateau at 109M the next couple of years. It's possible that we can re-sign Theis on a reasonable contract next year.

@Somebody
Wouldn't go so far as to say that Theis is an "excellent" Center. Imo, he's an excellent fit in our defensive system, but he leaves a lot to be desired on the offensive side of the ball. Like you said, I wouldn't swap him for a traditional Center. At the same time, I agree with gouki88 that we should try to upgrade the Center position.
I guess a lot depends on the development of Williams and any bigs we potentially draft. I value Theis’ defence and screening very highly, but think he’s pretty shocking offensively and as a rebounder. Would be happy to see us replace him if he starts looking for a significant contract upgrade
He's not his idol Kevin Garnett at inhaling defensive rebounds, but a ~20% defensive rebounding rate isn't that terrible considering that we don't rely on our centre to clean the defensive glass. He's also a pretty strong offensive rebounder with rates hovering around 10% for his career.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA