CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Chief on January 25, 2013, 10:57:39 PM
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http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060112
I posted this in the game thread but thought it needed it's own discussion. If you are not familiar, it's a Bill Simmons Article from 2006. But when you read it, you might think it was written recently. Especially the part about the Hawk's game.
Please read or reread because I think you will enjoy.
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http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060112
I posted this in the game thread but thought it needed it's own discussion. If you are not famuliar, it's a Bill Simmons Article from 2006. But when you read it, you might think it was written tonight. Especially the part about the Hawk's game.
Please read or reread because I think you will enjoy.
brutal. :(
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Jesus Bill lol
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http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060112
I posted this in the game thread but thought it needed it's own discussion. If you are not familiar, it's a Bill Simmons Article from 2006. But when you read it, you might think it was written tonight. Especially the part about the Hawk's game.
Please read or reread because I think you will enjoy.
excellent post -- TP. proves the more things change, the more they stay the same. Doc has had the same issues regardless of whether he has a roster of young players or vets.
totally overrated as a coach.
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http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060112
I posted this in the game thread but thought it needed it's own discussion. If you are not familiar, it's a Bill Simmons Article from 2006. But when you read it, you might think it was written tonight. Especially the part about the Hawk's game.
Please read or reread because I think you will enjoy.
excellent post -- TP. proves the more things change, the more they stay the same. Doc has had the same issues regardless of whether he has a roster of young players or vets.
totally overrated as a coach.
terrible at utilizing player's strengths. he just slams that square peg into a round hole over and over.
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http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060112
I posted this in the game thread but thought it needed it's own discussion. If you are not familiar, it's a Bill Simmons Article from 2006. But when you read it, you might think it was written tonight. Especially the part about the Hawk's game.
Please read or reread because I think you will enjoy.
excellent post -- TP. proves the more things change, the more they stay the same. Doc has had the same issues regardless of whether he has a roster of young players or vets.
totally overrated as a coach.
terrible at utilizing player's strengths. he just slams that square peg into a round hole over and over.
Brandon Bass nickname = square peg
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http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060112
I posted this in the game thread but thought it needed it's own discussion. If you are not familiar, it's a Bill Simmons Article from 2006. But when you read it, you might think it was written tonight. Especially the part about the Hawk's game.
Please read or reread because I think you will enjoy.
excellent post -- TP. proves the more things change, the more they stay the same. Doc has had the same issues regardless of whether he has a roster of young players or vets.
totally overrated as a coach.
Coaches often improve as has Doc. Where was that article when he was coaching the 09 team, without KG, to play their hearts out? In 2010 when we almost won the title as underdogs in every series, some even had losing in the 1st rd to Miami? In 11 we again fought tooth and nail against Miami and every game was close despite playing without our starting center and Rondo playing with one arm? Last year our injury team again played our hearts out and were 8 minutes from the Finals. That is coaching. That is leading men. When Doc's players quit on him during the playoffs then it's time for him to go.
Oh, and by the way, I've heard Bill Simmons say that he stands corrected on Doc. He didn't feel he did a good job before the Big 3, but said that in 09 and 10 he did one of the best coaching jobs he's ever seen.
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feel that he's not getting into the players anymore. i hope he can find the decency to step down. it's time for a change.
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Wow.
1. Lousy record in close games
Check.
2. Too many turnovers.
Check.
3. Too many offensive rebounds allowed.
Check.
4. Not enough winning streaks.
Check.
5. Opposing 3-point percentage
Pretty sure this is a check. It sure was tonight. (they're 13th in the league so . . . half-check)
6. Lousy record on the road
Check. (7-14)
7. Lack of a consistent rotation
CHECK
8. Downright stupidity
At times, check. (roll tape of every failed Pierce iso the past 3-4 seasons)
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wowwie wow wow
as i continue to say, he doesn't know what to do with this much talent
he's used to guys being ok at providing one thing cuz that's all they have.
this is diff.
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Wow.
1. Lousy record in close games
Check.
2. Too many turnovers.
Check.
3. Too many offensive rebounds allowed.
Check.
4. Not enough winning streaks.
Check.
5. Opposing 3-point percentage
Pretty sure this is a check. It sure was tonight. (they're 13th in the league so . . . half-check)
6. Lousy record on the road
Check. (7-14)
7. Lack of a consistent rotation
CHECK
8. Downright stupidity
At times, check. (roll tape of every failed Pierce iso the past 3-4 seasons)
9. playing a zone and letting a team shoot themselves back into a game
check
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http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060112
I posted this in the game thread but thought it needed it's own discussion. If you are not familiar, it's a Bill Simmons Article from 2006. But when you read it, you might think it was written tonight. Especially the part about the Hawk's game.
Please read or reread because I think you will enjoy.
excellent post -- TP. proves the more things change, the more they stay the same. Doc has had the same issues regardless of whether he has a roster of young players or vets.
totally overrated as a coach.
Coaches often improve as has Doc. Where was that article when he was coaching the 09 team, without KG, to play their hearts out? In 2010 when we almost won the title as underdogs in every series, some even had losing in the 1st rd to Miami? In 11 we again fought tooth and nail against Miami and every game was close despite playing without our starting center and Rondo playing with one arm? Last year our injury team again played our hearts out and were 8 minutes from the Finals. That is coaching. That is leading men. When Doc's players quit on him during the playoffs then it's time for him to go.
Oh, and by the way, I've heard Bill Simmons say that he stands corrected on Doc. He didn't feel he did a good job before the Big 3, but said that in 09 and 10 he did one of the best coaching jobs he's ever seen.
I think Doc is regressing. :-\
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Last I saw, Doc wasn't wearing a jersey,
but what do I know.
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Last I saw, Doc wasn't wearing a jersey,
but what do I know.
You say that like we don't need coaches... your statement implies that coaches have no impact on wins or losses. Why pay Doc or any coach?
But what do I know.
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Last I saw, Doc wasn't wearing a jersey,
but what do I know.
You say that like we don't need coaches... your statement implies that coaches have no impact on wins or losses. Why pay Doc or any coach?
But what do I know.
TP.
Doc is a terrible coach. People have been blinded by his ability to manage player personalities and develop bonds with his team. But as far as coaching? Actually coaching a game? No.
Doc Rivers was a product of his assistants. Now he's being exposed.
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He wasn't being exposed while we were winning for the last 5 years. You could say any of the things in that article about any coach in the NBA who isn't having an above average season. The bottom line is the players play and right now they are playing poorly and its not just Docs fault. 1 bad year after 5 good years and he should be fired now that's stupidity!
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feel that he's not getting into the players anymore. i hope he can find the decency to step down. it's time for a change.
No way! Does not seem reasonably possible. He wouldn't step down in Orlando with the bad start... Coaches don't step down often, they try to make it work, whether they can or not.
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feel that he's not getting into the players anymore. i hope he can find the decency to step down. it's time for a change.
No way! Does not seem reasonably possible. He wouldn't step down in Orlando with the bad start... Coaches don't step down often, they try to make it work, whether they can or not.
He's been a good coach for last 5 seasons and all of the sudden its his fault we are not winning. Our star players have gotten old and our young guys are great play makers besides Rondo who has an attitude problem and appears to bog down the offense. Keep Doc and change the personnel, he's the only guy besides KG and Pierce with a proven record of being a winner with the C's.
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He wasn't being exposed while we were winning for the last 5 years. You could say any of the things in that article about any coach in the NBA who isn't having an above average season. The bottom line is the players play and right now they are playing poorly and its not just Docs fault. 1 bad year after 5 good years and he should be fired now that's stupidity!
Within the last 5 years Thibs was here. (Hindsight is 20/20 BTW. If we knew then what we know now, he should have been promoted to head coach and we should have let Doc retire.)
Within the last 5 years Lawrence Frank was here.
Like I said, exposed and a product of his assistants.
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He wasn't being exposed while we were winning for the last 5 years. You could say any of the things in that article about any coach in the NBA who isn't having an above average season. The bottom line is the players play and right now they are playing poorly and its not just Docs fault. 1 bad year after 5 good years and he should be fired now that's stupidity!
Within the last 5 years Thibs was here. (Hindsight is 20/20 BTW. If we knew then what we know now, he should have been promoted to head coach and we should have let Doc retire.)
Within the last 5 years Lawrence Frank was here.
Like I said, exposed and a product of his assistants.
I think you have things backwards, his assistants are a product of him. If we go by your theory Lawrence Frank should be fired at this point with his record in Detroit this season. My point is that its not possible to win every year no matter the coach with out the talent.
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He wasn't being exposed while we were winning for the last 5 years. You could say any of the things in that article about any coach in the NBA who isn't having an above average season. The bottom line is the players play and right now they are playing poorly and its not just Docs fault. 1 bad year after 5 good years and he should be fired now that's stupidity!
Within the last 5 years Thibs was here. (Hindsight is 20/20 BTW. If we knew then what we know now, he should have been promoted to head coach and we should have let Doc retire.)
Within the last 5 years Lawrence Frank was here.
Like I said, exposed and a product of his assistants.
I think you have things backwards, his assistants are a product of him. If we go by your theory Lawrence Frank should be fired at this point with his record in Detroit this season. My point is that its not possible to win every year no matter the coach with out the talent.
LOL! Thibs is doing just fine without Glenn Rivers.
And please lets not act like we're that much better than Detroit at this point. They did manage to blow us out twice, by 15 and 20 points, didn't they?
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Doc gets credit for three things, that made him an elite coach.
1. Being likable
2. Being loyal
3. Designing great out-of-bounds plays
He's still the first two, but his out-of-bounds plays just do not work without Ray Allen as a decoy or a scorer. It's as simple as that.
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He wasn't being exposed while we were winning for the last 5 years. You could say any of the things in that article about any coach in the NBA who isn't having an above average season. The bottom line is the players play and right now they are playing poorly and its not just Docs fault. 1 bad year after 5 good years and he should be fired now that's stupidity!
Within the last 5 years Thibs was here. (Hindsight is 20/20 BTW. If we knew then what we know now, he should have been promoted to head coach and we should have let Doc retire.)
Within the last 5 years Lawrence Frank was here.
Like I said, exposed and a product of his assistants.
I think you have things backwards, his assistants are a product of him. If we go by your theory Lawrence Frank should be fired at this point with his record in Detroit this season. My point is that its not possible to win every year no matter the coach with out the talent.
LOL! Thibs is doing just fine without Glenn Rivers.
And please lets not act like we're that much better than Detroit at this point. They did manage to blow us out twice, by 15 and 20 points, didn't they?
Well I guess we will agree to disagree on whether or not Doc is and has been a good coach.
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Doc gets credit for three things, that made him an elite coach.
1. Being likable
2. Being loyal
3. Designing great out-of-bounds plays
He's still the first two, but his out-of-bounds plays just do not work without Ray Allen as a decoy or a scorer. It's as simple as that.
Being likeable and loyal makes you an elite coach? lol his elite out of bounds plays *The ones to tie or win the game* seem to almost always involve pierce going one on one.....what the heck is elite about that?
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I've never liked doc's rotations. However I will defend him here. when we won the title he OUTCOACHED Phil Jackson, move by move and the lakers players gave up.
This season he is standing by his players. A guy like Bill Fitch would have imploded and look at bills record as celtics coach (also how long he lasted)
this is the same as last year, danny has kept the 3 year window open well beyond, for us to win we need many things to align, last year things clicked amazing, doc kept everyone calm and believing and we nearly made the FINALS
this year we have beaten many top notch teams but our consistancy (can't spell it!) has sucked
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In the last 5 years, he had a different roster and a system that made sense for that roster. He also had 3 fairly healthy crazy good players. PP on the decline, KG still pretty good, and Ray gone, this guy is being exposed. Not that great of a coach.
He's made some very questionable decisions. FOR THIS GROUP. He's underutilizing them.
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Let's be clear about one thing. A LOT of coaches would have won A LOT of games with KG, Ray and Pierce 5 years ago. Would they have won a championship? Maybe not, and Doc has got to get credit for making the team as successful as it's been. But this year has just been one, long, brutal coaching failure.
Mike
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is it docs fault that pierce has had 43 of his shots blocked this season?
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is it docs fault that pierce has had 43 of his shots blocked this season?
absolutely. PP has the most shot attempts because he's in the most and given the ball the most.
plus, that's an awful stat to draw any conclusions from.
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is it docs fault that pierce has had 43 of his shots blocked this season?
That's not as large a number as you seem to think it is.
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is it docs fault that pierce has had 43 of his shots blocked this season?
That's not as large a number as you seem to think it is.
I think he was trying to emphasize the aging factor effecting Paul's game.
It's indeed affecting, however, I won't say it's something detectable in the stat sheet that easily. It's more of his intangibles that are not working anymore or so it seems.
Anyway, I'm a Doc fan. He has always kept his calm even during chaotic situations. He can't make the plays by going out himself. The players tend to be disobedient with his schemes, I'd say. It's easier to blame the coach, though.
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My biggest problem with Doc is small ball. He has tried to force it to work for years.
Now he's trying to force Green at the pf spot again. :'(
I know this roster has limited bigs, but this has been going on for years. He does not learn. When Danny signs bigs, they just sit the bench.
IMO, the guy has to go!!!