Author Topic: Williams vs Ayton (full game)  (Read 8928 times)

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Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« on: June 22, 2018, 07:40:31 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x7M3lYTMtQ

I'm not sure how many will watch the whole game, but it's interesting since both their respective teams played them at the 4, so they were actually going head-to-head.

Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2018, 07:41:33 AM »

Online Roy H.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x7M3lYTMtQ

I'm not sure how many will watch the whole game, but it's interesting since both their respective teams played them at the 4, so they were actually going head-to-head.

Anything in particular that stands out?  You're absolutely right, I won't be watching the entire game, haha.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2018, 07:53:31 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x7M3lYTMtQ

I'm not sure how many will watch the whole game, but it's interesting since both their respective teams played them at the 4, so they were actually going head-to-head.

Anything in particular that stands out?  You're absolutely right, I won't be watching the entire game, haha.

Williams was really miscast at Texas A & M, not only was he playing the 4, but he was also used in a lot of off-ball action. Mike Schmitz echoed this by calling him the best lob catcher in the draft, yet he was only used on 9 rim runs all season.

Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2018, 07:57:34 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Mike Schmitz echoed this by calling him the best lob catcher in the draft, yet he was only used on 9 rim runs all season.

How can that even be?   I know the paint gets packed more in college, but that's wild.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2018, 08:03:34 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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Mike Schmitz echoed this by calling him the best lob catcher in the draft, yet he was only used on 9 rim runs all season.

How can that even be?   I know the paint gets packed more in college, but that's wild.

Yeah, it was actually an astonishing stat. He said it on air, but also tweeted about it too.

@Mike_Schmitz
Robert Williams -- the draft's best lob-catcher -- was used as a roller only 17 times last season. Playing exclusively PF, he rolled to the rim on only 9 possessions in 30 games. Should he land with a strong organization, Williams could pop in the NBA.

Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2018, 08:12:35 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23591050/five-potential-nba-draft-steals-break-next-level

Mike Schmitz
ESPN

Every year there are a few prospects who look far better at the NBA level than they did in college because of a variety of situational factors.

Jaylen Brown, an explosive driver and streaky shooter, was rarely able to tap into his aggressive slashing ability with much success at Cal. Playing almost exclusively the 2 and the 3 with two traditional big men clogging the paint, Brown struggled and analytics models said stay away near the top of the draft. Kyle Kuzma was used as more of a roller and post-up big man in Utah's structured half-court offense, unable to regularly unleash the best aspects of his offensive game.

Where a prospect lands is an essential factor in determining what type of pro he becomes, but it's also important to dive into each prospect's NCAA situation to find the next collegiate casualty turned draft day steal. Here are the names to watch in this draft.

Robert Williams | Texas A&M | C | Age: 20.5
There's no greater collegiate casualty in the draft than Williams. While he hasn't done himself any favors with his up-and-down motor, combine no-show and the fact that he's already on his second agent, A&M also robbed him of opportunities to play to his strengths.

1. Played PF not C, with no spacing

College basketball and the NBA look like two different sports at times, and A&M was a perfect example of that with two non-floor-spacing centers in Williams and Tyler Davis playing next to each other and a prototype stretch-4 in DJ Hogg at the 3. Williams played almost exclusively power forward -- a rare position for him at the NBA level.

There's one stat in particular that tells the story of how Williams wasn't used appropriately. At 6-foot-10 with a massive catch radius, elite agility and explosive leaping ability, Williams was used in only 16 pick-and-roll possessions in 30 games, according to Synergy Sports Technology. Sixteen. That's just over one pick-and-roll possession every two games, and he rolled on only nine possessions all year. Nine rolling possessions in 30 games for the draft's best lob-catcher who finished a ridiculous 73.7 percent of his shots at the rim.

Why so few pick-and-roll opportunities? With Davis camped out in the paint and at times only one other shooter on the floor, there was no room for Williams to roll when A&M did decide to put him in ball screens. Williams didn't always screen or dive as hard as he could, but part of that is a function of him knowing it was unlikely he'd have an open lane or an accurate lob thrown his way.


The Aggies used Williams as a high-low passer or stuck him in the short corner, giving the still-raw center little opportunity to use his freakish tools. Playing him at the 4 on defense also put him out of position to protect the rim at times. Although he's the best jump-shot swatter in the draft, he didn't quite learn the ins and outs of team defense at the center spot in two years at the collegiate level.



Where does Williams see himself positionally?

"Honestly wherever I'll make money is where I see myself," Williams told ESPN during the NCAA tournament. That will certainly be at center, in the Clint Capela mold.

2. Poor guard play

"I feel like I'll do well in the NBA because you got elite passers," Williams said. "You got guys like James Harden -- great passers."

Williams didn't have that with the Aggies, as A&M's guard play was uninspiring, to put it nicely. Far too many possessions looked like this:


Eventual starting point guard TJ Starks finished the season with 72 assists and 85 turnovers, regularly breaking free of the offense to create his own. With nowhere to roll and no one to throw him lobs, Williams floated, which bled over to other aspects of his game.

"It's just all effort, man, and that's honestly what I've been trying to improve on," Williams said. "This postseason my teammates have just been telling me I've got to keep my effort up, no [slacking]. I just try to keep that up and lead them."

Over the last five games of the season -- including three in the NCAA tournament -- Williams gave scouts a glimpse of what he can be at the NBA level, as he averaged 15.2 rebounds and 4.8 blocks per 40 minutes, all while playing out of position.

play
0:19
Texas A&M's Williams slams it home for alley-oop dunk Admon Gilder lobs it up high, and Robert Williams throws it down with a two-handed jam.

How will it change in the NBA?

Situation will be key for Williams, who needs to be in a structured environment with strong vets to live up to his sky-high potential. But even outside of that, any NBA coach with a modern outlook figures to see Williams' value as a rim runner, lob catcher, switch defender, rim protector and rebounder.

It will help to feed Williams a few lob attempts per game to keep him engaged on the defensive end of the floor, where he has the potential to be elite. Williams also has quite a bit of untapped potential as a passer, which could manifest itself in short roll situations when surrounded by shooters. While not every big man projected in the lottery fits where the NBA is headed, Williams is the ideal type of modern center that shines when surrounded by shooters and quick decision makers. He is loaded with tools and natural talent, and a playoff team with a winning culture would be smart to jump into the back end of the lottery to steal the center, who is without a doubt a top-10 talent.

Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2018, 08:22:50 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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Pretty cool that Schmitz's pre-draft evaluation of Williams was the exact things Stevens said about him after he was selected.


Schmitz-
Nine rolling possessions in 30 games for the draft's best lob-catcher who finished a ridiculous 73.7 percent of his shots at the rim. With Davis camped out in the paint and at times only one other shooter on the floor, there was no room for Williams to roll when A&M did decide to put him in ball screens.

Stevens-
If you can have four shooters on the floor and a guy like that rolling to the rim, you can just throw it up in the air and go get it, finish it," Stevens said. "And I think that there's a lot of things that he brings to the table, but those are the things that translate sooner rather than later. As he continues to improve and improve his skill and everything else, we'll see where all that goes. But right now, he is an elite athlete and with incredible length.



Schmitz-
Williams also has quite a bit of untapped potential as a passer, which could manifest itself in short roll situations when surrounded by shooters.

Stevens-
As far as handling and passing, I think he's actually got a good foundation," he said shortly after the Celtics made the pick. "I think that he will improve his shot and get right to work on that. But I think handling and passing, I think he'll be able to do that and continue to get better at it.



Schmitz-
Situation will be key for Williams, who needs to be in a structured environment with strong vets to live up to his sky-high potential.

Stevens-
The atmosphere part is this — it’s the responsibility of those guys — Jayson (Tatum) and Jaylen (Brown) and the young players when Robert gets here for summer league, when he sees Al Horford working out in the weight room like he was today, or Gordon Hayward doing his rehab like he was today like other guys around the gym. The biggest key in the environment is, he has to come to work.

Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2018, 08:32:22 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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That’s the best case for optimism on Williams that I’ve read. Thanks for posting.

I’m still wondering, though. The teams that passed on him 1-26 probably have ESPN insider accounts. They knew this. So why did they pass on him? We’ve heard vague things about motor and off court problems. I have also read there were concerns about his knees (look at nbadraft.net’s pick evaluations for that).

Maybe the other teams all blew it. There’s a pretty solid record on picks at 27 over the past 10 years. Be pretty cool if the kid could put it together wearing green.

Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2018, 08:58:14 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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Ainge is in the crowd scouting the game at 45:47

https://youtu.be/7x7M3lYTMtQ?t=45m46s

Wonder if he already had Williams on the radar, or if he was mostly just there for Ayton?

As for Williams, he looks like a predator on defense, I like it a lot. Intense, intelligent, observant, strong, athletic.

Offensively he's gonna love catching lobs with competent passers, sad how often his teammates miss him here.

Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2018, 09:02:30 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Mike Schmitz echoed this by calling him the best lob catcher in the draft, yet he was only used on 9 rim runs all season.

How can that even be?   I know the paint gets packed more in college, but that's wild.

Yeah, it was actually an astonishing stat. He said it on air, but also tweeted about it too.

@Mike_Schmitz
Robert Williams -- the draft's best lob-catcher -- was used as a roller only 17 times last season. Playing exclusively PF, he rolled to the rim on only 9 possessions in 30 games. Should he land with a strong organization, Williams could pop in the NBA.

That is really interesting. seems to be a recurring theme in college basketball. I'm not a big college ball guy, any theories on how this happens?

I can think of a couple, maybe a combination of all these:
1. Recruiting might be a crapshoot, trying to get the best talent, sometimes probably washes out as not the best fit all together.
2. Age and potential of the prospect vs the coach wanting to win; i.e. a "better" freshman/sophomore might be blocked by a senior even though the senior might go undrafted.
3. The coaches are worse; if they were better, they'd be in the NBA
4. The coaches are auditioning for NBA jobs, so trying to show their "system"
5. A combination of #3+4 might lead to stubborn insistence on system over maximizing talent
6. Short careers; 1-2 years and out, not as much emphasis on grooming and developing a player.

Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2018, 09:24:16 AM »

Offline footey

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Mike Schmitz echoed this by calling him the best lob catcher in the draft, yet he was only used on 9 rim runs all season.

How can that even be?   I know the paint gets packed more in college, but that's wild.

Yeah, it was actually an astonishing stat. He said it on air, but also tweeted about it too.

@Mike_Schmitz
Robert Williams -- the draft's best lob-catcher -- was used as a roller only 17 times last season. Playing exclusively PF, he rolled to the rim on only 9 possessions in 30 games. Should he land with a strong organization, Williams could pop in the NBA.

That is really interesting. seems to be a recurring theme in college basketball. I'm not a big college ball guy, any theories on how this happens?

I can think of a couple, maybe a combination of all these:
1. Recruiting might be a crapshoot, trying to get the best talent, sometimes probably washes out as not the best fit all together.
2. Age and potential of the prospect vs the coach wanting to win; i.e. a "better" freshman/sophomore might be blocked by a senior even though the senior might go undrafted.
3. The coaches are worse; if they were better, they'd be in the NBA
4. The coaches are auditioning for NBA jobs, so trying to show their "system"
5. A combination of #3+4 might lead to stubborn insistence on system over maximizing talent
6. Short careers; 1-2 years and out, not as much emphasis on grooming and developing a player.
7. 99% of their job is to recruit.

Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2018, 09:38:08 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Mike Schmitz echoed this by calling him the best lob catcher in the draft, yet he was only used on 9 rim runs all season.

How can that even be?   I know the paint gets packed more in college, but that's wild.

Yeah, it was actually an astonishing stat. He said it on air, but also tweeted about it too.

@Mike_Schmitz
Robert Williams -- the draft's best lob-catcher -- was used as a roller only 17 times last season. Playing exclusively PF, he rolled to the rim on only 9 possessions in 30 games. Should he land with a strong organization, Williams could pop in the NBA.

That is really interesting. seems to be a recurring theme in college basketball. I'm not a big college ball guy, any theories on how this happens?

I can think of a couple, maybe a combination of all these:
1. Recruiting might be a crapshoot, trying to get the best talent, sometimes probably washes out as not the best fit all together.
2. Age and potential of the prospect vs the coach wanting to win; i.e. a "better" freshman/sophomore might be blocked by a senior even though the senior might go undrafted.
3. The coaches are worse; if they were better, they'd be in the NBA
4. The coaches are auditioning for NBA jobs, so trying to show their "system"
5. A combination of #3+4 might lead to stubborn insistence on system over maximizing talent
6. Short careers; 1-2 years and out, not as much emphasis on grooming and developing a player.
7. 99% of their job is to recruit.

Doc would have made a great college recruiter coach for hat one reason ......those kids would have ate him up as well as the parents .   

Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2018, 10:55:59 AM »

Online hwangjini_1

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x7M3lYTMtQ

I'm not sure how many will watch the whole game, but it's interesting since both their respective teams played them at the 4, so they were actually going head-to-head.

Anything in particular that stands out?  You're absolutely right, I won't be watching the entire game, haha.
Really a good game.  Neither Ayton nor Williams stood out to me. But listening to Walton and the other announcer argue and snipe at one another was painful.  :P
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Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2018, 01:11:40 PM »

Offline Chief Macho

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The year before he played Zona and he was a beast.  I remember thinking how dope he would be in the NBA but thought we'd never get a chance at him.  I think he'll be a much better NBA player.

At the time I got a Theo Ratliff vibe from him,  if any of you guys remember Ratliff.

Re: Williams vs Ayton (full game)
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2018, 01:56:55 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x7M3lYTMtQ

I'm not sure how many will watch the whole game, but it's interesting since both their respective teams played them at the 4, so they were actually going head-to-head.

Anything in particular that stands out?  You're absolutely right, I won't be watching the entire game, haha.
Really a good game.  Neither Ayton nor Williams stood out to me. But listening to Walton and the other announcer argue and snipe at one another was painful.  :P

Ayton went for 13 and 10. It wasn't a huge game for either, basically nullifying each other..