CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: Donoghus on February 17, 2018, 01:59:54 PM
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Per ESPN
The 2018 Basketball Hall of Fame Finalists: shooting guard Ray Allen, point guard Maurice Cheeks, coach Charles "Lefty" Driesell, referee Hugh Evans, small forward Grant Hill, point guard Jason Kidd, coach Kim Mulkey, point guard Steve Nash, shooting guard Katie Smith, power forward Tina Thompson, coach Rudy Tomjanovich, Wayland Baptist University women's team of the 1950s, and power forward Chris Webber.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhdziFWfUSg
"Ray Allen KNOCKS IT DOWWWWWWWWWNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!"
"Ray Allen for the game.....GOT IT!!!! AT THE BUZZER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Thanks for everything, Ray. Hope you get in 1st Ballot.
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Per ESPN
The 2018 Basketball Hall of Fame Finalists: shooting guard Ray Allen, point guard Maurice Cheeks, coach Charles "Lefty" Driesell, referee Hugh Evans, small forward Grant Hill, point guard Jason Kidd, coach Kim Mulkey, point guard Steve Nash, shooting guard Katie Smith, power forward Tina Thompson, coach Rudy Tomjanovich, Wayland Baptist University women's team of the 1950s, and power forward Chris Webber.
Chris Webber? Seriously?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhdziFWfUSg
"Ray Allen KNOCKS IT DOWWWWWWWWWNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!"
"Ray Allen for the game.....GOT IT!!!! AT THE BUZZER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Thanks for everything, Ray. Hope you get in 1st Ballot.
Ray is deserving of the HOF, no doubt.
I still don't want his number retired here, but that's a different argument.
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Didn't know Ray been gone 5 years already?
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Didn't know Ray been gone 5 years already?
He hasn't last played in 2014
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Sidney Moncrief deserves to be a finalist over Mo Cheeks.
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Didn't know Ray been gone 5 years already?
They changed the rule to 3 years.
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Sidney Moncrief deserves to be a finalist over Mo Cheeks.
Absolutely.
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Kidd, Nash, Mo Cheeks, Tina Thompson and Rudy T should be get in.
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Kidd, Nash, Mo Cheeks, Tina Thompson and Rudy T should be get in.
Ray Allen over Mo Cheeks easily.
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Allen, Kidd, Nash, & Thompson are my no-brainers.
Rudy T should get in. 2 NBA titles & an Olympic gold medal are pretty darn impressive even if his winning % is only so-so.
I really don't know much about Mulkey or Smith but they have some pretty impressive accomplishments.
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Will any of the former Celtics congratulate ray?
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Kidd, Nash, Mo Cheeks, Tina Thompson and Rudy T should be get in.
Ray Allen over Mo Cheeks easily.
Yeah. Mo Cheeks is down the list for me a bit.
For NBA players, I’d vote for Allen, Kidd, Nash, Webber and Moncrief. Hill is a tough call, even with his NCAA career, but ultimately seven good seasons get him in.
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Kidd, Nash, Mo Cheeks, Tina Thompson and Rudy T should be get in.
Ray Allen over Mo Cheeks easily.
Not for me.
Ray Allen spent too much of his career in the mediocre wilderness in Milwaukee and Seattle. Did not have enough impact in the playoffs during his best years. Only 1 playoff run with each of those teams. Then came to Boston where he begun to decline but shined in as the 3rd/4th best player on those teams and finished well as a bench player in Miami.
Mo Cheeks was an influential player on a Philly team that challenged for the title for 6-7 years (also as the 3rd/4th best player). He was a standout defensive player and intelligent floor general and highly skilled playmaker whose impact on the game went far beyond his stat-line.
Mo Cheeks was substance over flash. Ray Allen was the opposite. More flash over substance with his refusal to play defense for most of the first 10 years of his career. A superb offensive threat who lessened himself (and his teams) by not playing defense.
Ray Allen deserves to be in the HoF someday but no way am I picking him ahead of Mo Cheeks.
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Kidd, Nash, Mo Cheeks, Tina Thompson and Rudy T should be get in.
Ray Allen over Mo Cheeks easily.
Not for me.
Ray Allen spent too much of his career in the mediocre wilderness in Milwaukee and Seattle. Did not have enough impact in the playoffs during his best years. Only 1 playoff run with each of those teams. Then came to Boston where he begun to decline but shined in as the 3rd/4th best player on those teams and finished well as a bench player in Miami.
Mo Cheeks was an influential player on a Philly team that challenged for the title for 6-7 years (also as the 3rd/4th best player). He was a standout defensive player and intelligent floor general and highly skilled playmaker whose impact on the game went far beyond his stat-line.
Mo Cheeks was substance over flash. Ray Allen was the opposite. More flash over substance with his refusal to play defense for most of the first 10 years of his career. A superb offensive threat who lessened himself (and his teams) by not playing defense.
Ray Allen deserves to be in the HoF someday but no way am I picking him ahead of Mo Cheeks.
Still, Ray has 2 rings and 171 playoff games, compared to 1 title and 133 playoff games for Cheeks.
Then there are Ray’s counting stats: 10x All-Star, 19 ppg, all-time leader in 3PM, 6th all-time in FT%. Cheeks’ 11 points and 7 assists pale in comparison.
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If Moe Cheeks played in San Antonio or Washington nobody would know who he is. He was a good, solid player for a long time. He had only one season with over 8 assists per game on a team that played super fast. He never scored 16 points per game in his career. He’s not really close to being a hall of famer in my opinion. Ray Allen is a no brainer.
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too easy to get in the NBA HOF. I do not think that players that did not set records or win championships deserve to be in the HOF.
Using this standard, Webber does not get in, and Charles Barkley does not get it.
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Didn't know Ray been gone 5 years already?
They changed the rule to 3 years.
Did they?
That’s weird. Basketball the first sport to shorten it from 5?
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too easy to get in the NBA HOF. I do not think that players that did not set records or win championships deserve to be in the HOF.
Using this standard, Webber does not get in, and Charles Barkley does not get it.
There’s nothing easy about winning MVP and making 11 straight All-NBA teams. Barkley was a heck of a player.
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Per ESPN
The 2018 Basketball Hall of Fame Finalists: shooting guard Ray Allen, point guard Maurice Cheeks, coach Charles "Lefty" Driesell, referee Hugh Evans, small forward Grant Hill, point guard Jason Kidd, coach Kim Mulkey, point guard Steve Nash, shooting guard Katie Smith, power forward Tina Thompson, coach Rudy Tomjanovich, Wayland Baptist University women's team of the 1950s, and power forward Chris Webber.
Chris Webber? Seriously?
I think Chris Webber is one of the most under rated big men ever. He could score, was a great rebounder and excellent passer. Always was active on defense with lots of deflections and steals. Very good defender.
I don't think he gets in this year, but he should eventually, IMO. Which probably means he won't.
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too easy to get in the NBA HOF. I do not think that players that did not set records or win championships deserve to be in the HOF.
Using this standard, Webber does not get in, and Charles Barkley does not get it.
There’s nothing easy about winning MVP and making 11 straight All-NBA teams. Barkley was a heck of a player.
Yeah, Barkley is definitely a HoFer, no doubt. Webber was a great player, but he never went above and beyond being talented. I personally wouldn’t vote for him simply because of that timeout.
Kids gets in, Ray gets in, Nash gets in. Cheeks eventually, just maybe not this year.
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What's the case for Kidd and Nash? Being th only 2 allstar PGs in he league during the 00's?
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Kidd, Nash, Allen, Rudy T, and Thompson are my guesses for who will get in this year.
I don't think Mo Cheeks ever should and not feeling great about Webber. Grant Hill has a reputation for always being injured, but he sure seems to have the resume - maybe in the future. I don't know enough about the others to give an opinion.
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Imo Webber is just as deserving as players like Kidd or Nash-those 2 thrived in the league with little PG talent (not a lot of floor generals-a lot of chuckers/streetballers) while Webber was still great in an era where bigs were still dominant, paving the way for PFs like Garnett, Duncan and Dirk. People forget how good his stats were and how he would've gotten a ring if not for 8 on 5 basketball, while carrying every team he went to a winning team record wise even with less than ideal talent.
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What's the case for Kidd and Nash? Being th only 2 allstar PGs in he league during the 00's?
Sheesh. Really?
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too easy to get in the NBA HOF. I do not think that players that did not set records or win championships deserve to be in the HOF.
Using this standard, Webber does not get in, and Charles Barkley does not get it.
And Scalabrine does .....
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I don't believe Ray should have his Celtics jersey retired but there's no question he should be a first-ballot HOFer.
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Didn't know Ray been gone 5 years already?
They changed the rule to 3 years.
Did they?
That’s weird. Basketball the first sport to shorten it from 5?
That is weird. I feel like 3 years is too short. Probably more marketable for the HOF though having more recently retired superstars inducted.
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When you compare Webber's resume to Reggie Miller's his is a little better. I only know that because last night the announcers mentioned they're both 5 time all stars.
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Per Woj. No Ray, apparently.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.
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Per Woj. No Ray, apparently.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.
That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.
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Per Woj. No Ray, apparently.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.
That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.
Grant Hill over Ray Allen is a headscratcher.
Also, Cheeks is borderline at best, IMO. Moncrief continues to get screwed. He wasn't even named a finalist this year which is ridiculous.
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Per Woj. No Ray, apparently.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.
That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.
My complaints about Ray's behavior notwithstanding, he's definitely a Hall of Famer. And though I think the notion of "first ballot" Hall of Famer is silly—someone is either a Hall of Famer or they're not—he should definitely be a first-ballot guy.
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Grant Hill over Ray Allen is a headscratcher.
Also, Cheeks is borderline at best, IMO. Moncrief continues to get screwed. He wasn't even named a finalist this year which is ridiculous.
I'm surprised too.
Grant Hill had a better prime, but it was so short lived ('95-'00). Of course there was a 4-5 year stretch where Hill was the best SF in the game, while there was never a time when Ray was the best SG in the league. Ray may have never even been top 3 (definitely not if you classify AI and McGrady as SG), was probably never considered a consistent top 10 player in the league (and if he was, it was borderline #9-#10, and only briefly).
5x All NBA for Hill vs 2x for Allen.
Hill has those 2 championships at Duke too.
But Ray had 24,500+ career points, 2 NBA rings, 10x All Star, all time 3 pointers made leader.
To be consistent though, Reggie Miller wasn't a first ballot Hall of Famer either. The Hall voters probably view 3 point shooting as more of a niche category, need to be good at more than that to get in on the first try apparently.
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Per Woj. No Ray, apparently.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.
That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.
My complaints about Ray's behavior notwithstanding, he's definitely a Hall of Famer. And though I think the notion of "first ballot" Hall of Famer is silly—someone is either a Hall of Famer or they're not—he should definitely be a first-ballot guy.
I am thinking there is a chance Ray is losing the respect of his peers right now with the scorned lover routine he is doing on the talk show circuit. You really don't see that many players trying slam their ex teammates with locker room stories a few years after retiring when some of the other players are still playing and trying to make a living. Wouldn't surprise me if a few voters thought they didn't want the focus of hall of fame weekend to be Allen doing more interviews to promote his book and how the celtics screwed him (he is on front page of espn nba section again talking about that).
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Grant Hill over Ray Allen is a headscratcher.
Also, Cheeks is borderline at best, IMO. Moncrief continues to get screwed. He wasn't even named a finalist this year which is ridiculous.
I'm surprised too.
Grant Hill had a better prime, but it was so short lived ('95-'00). Of course there was a 4-5 year stretch where Hill was the best SF in the game, while there was never a time when Ray was the best SG in the league. Ray may have never even been top 3 (definitely not if you classify AI and McGrady as SG), was probably never considered a consistent top 10 player in the league (and if he was, it was borderline #9-#10, and only briefly).
5x All NBA for Hill vs 2x for Allen.
Hill has those 2 championships at Duke too.
But Ray had 24,500+ career points, 2 NBA rings, 10x All Star, all time 3 pointers made leader.
To be consistent though, Reggie Miller wasn't a first ballot Hall of Famer either. The Hall voters probably view 3 point shooting as more of a niche category, need to be good at more than that to get in on the first try apparently.
TP for mentioning Hill's 2 titles at Duke. I think at times some forget it is a basketball HOF, not an NBA HOF. Hill had a prolific college career that spanned 4 years, with 2 titles and a runner-up his senior year. Both Hill and Allen won gold medals as well.
I'm personally glad to see Hill > Allen. All-NBAs and MVP shares are a lot more important to me than All-Star appearances when considering HOF and Hill has Allen by a wide margin in both.
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For whatever its worth, basketball reference had Kidd at #30 for HOF probability, Ray at #40, Nash at #61, Hill at #82, & Cheeks at #109. (Moncrief is #114).
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College first team all american and Big East player of the year (Back when Uconn was a force in College basketball)
2 Time NBA Champion
10 time all star
gold medal winner
#1 in all time in three pointers.
Allen got shafted.
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Per Woj. No Ray, apparently.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.
That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.
My complaints about Ray's behavior notwithstanding, he's definitely a Hall of Famer. And though I think the notion of "first ballot" Hall of Famer is silly—someone is either a Hall of Famer or they're not—he should definitely be a first-ballot guy.
I agree. It's the same weird standard applied to Reggie Miller, and more often in baseball. Enough voters didn't deem him "first-ballot" that he couldn't clear the threshold. Next year he'll probably coast in easily.
If we're going to treat "first-ballot" as some special tier, then put it in the rules, set a higher vote threshold or whatever. This unofficial norm stuff is just silly.
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So, who exactly are the voters? I find it very odd that Cheeks and Hill are in over Ray
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So, who exactly are the voters? I find it very odd that Cheeks and Hill are in over Ray
I’m hoping Woj has an incomplete list.
Ray > > > Cheeks
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The hater in me LOVES that Ray did not make it. The basketball fan in me has no doubt that he is a HOFer.
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So, who exactly are the voters? I find it very odd that Cheeks and Hill are in over Ray
I can't really comment on Cheek's worthiness, I haven't studied his game or accomplishment enough to comment.
But Hill absolutely deserves to be ahead of Allen. Hill had a higher peak in the NBA, although certainly less overall accomplishment due to his career being cut short by injury. Hill also had a much greater college career, as well, and I have to imagine that plays a part in this.
Let's remember folks, this isn't the NBA HOF, it's the BASKETBALL HOF, which includes all levels of amateur and professional basketball. People too often seem forget that a players entire basketball career matters, not just their NBA career.
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Per Woj. No Ray, apparently.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.
That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.
My complaints about Ray's behavior notwithstanding, he's definitely a Hall of Famer. And though I think the notion of "first ballot" Hall of Famer is silly—someone is either a Hall of Famer or they're not—he should definitely be a first-ballot guy.
I am thinking there is a chance Ray is losing the respect of his peers right now with the scorned lover routine he is doing on the talk show circuit. You really don't see that many players trying slam their ex teammates with locker room stories a few years after retiring when some of the other players are still playing and trying to make a living. Wouldn't surprise me if a few voters thought they didn't want the focus of hall of fame weekend to be Allen doing more interviews to promote his book and how the celtics screwed him (he is on front page of espn nba section again talking about that).
I understand this aspect, but this is the kind of stuff that absolutely should not factor into a player's consideration for the Hall of Fame. A player's attitude toward his former teammates or employer(s), or a player's attitude toward the media—none of these things should have any bearing on whether a player gets into his sport's Hall of Fame. The only question that should matter is: "Is (Player X) one of the best of all time?" In Allen's case, the answer is a clear "yes," because he's absolutely one of the best long-range shooters ever.
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I would have put Chris Webber and Ray Allen in ahead of Mo Cheeks.
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Per Woj. No Ray, apparently.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.
That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.
My complaints about Ray's behavior notwithstanding, he's definitely a Hall of Famer. And though I think the notion of "first ballot" Hall of Famer is silly—someone is either a Hall of Famer or they're not—he should definitely be a first-ballot guy.
I agree. It's the same weird standard applied to Reggie Miller, and more often in baseball. Enough voters didn't deem him "first-ballot" that he couldn't clear the threshold. Next year he'll probably coast in easily.
If we're going to treat "first-ballot" as some special tier, then put it in the rules, set a higher vote threshold or whatever. This unofficial norm stuff is just silly.
I agree. I see it in other sports too. I'm not a fan of Barry Bonds or Pete Rose, but they're among baseball's best players ever. Period.
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Per Woj. No Ray, apparently.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.
That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.
My complaints about Ray's behavior notwithstanding, he's definitely a Hall of Famer. And though I think the notion of "first ballot" Hall of Famer is silly—someone is either a Hall of Famer or they're not—he should definitely be a first-ballot guy.
I am thinking there is a chance Ray is losing the respect of his peers right now with the scorned lover routine he is doing on the talk show circuit. You really don't see that many players trying slam their ex teammates with locker room stories a few years after retiring when some of the other players are still playing and trying to make a living. Wouldn't surprise me if a few voters thought they didn't want the focus of hall of fame weekend to be Allen doing more interviews to promote his book and how the celtics screwed him (he is on front page of espn nba section again talking about that).
I understand this aspect, but this is the kind of stuff that absolutely should not factor into a player's consideration for the Hall of Fame. A player's attitude toward his former teammates or employer(s), or a player's attitude toward the media—none of these things should have any bearing on whether a player gets into his sport's Hall of Fame. The only question that should matter is: "Is (Player X) one of the best of all time?" In Allen's case, the answer is a clear "yes," because he's absolutely one of the best long-range shooters ever.
Well its not like he won't ever get in. If they feel like he is acting like a sideshow right now and want to have him wait a year when he isn't throwing dirt on a bunch of current and former players, is that the end of the world?
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The fact that Grant Hill got into the HOF is a joke.
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Per Woj. No Ray, apparently.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Steve Nash have been notified that each will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame's Class of 2018, sources tell ESPN. Formal announcement comes at Final Four weekend.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Maurice Cheeks will be inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2018, league source tells ESPN. He will join Nash, Hill and Kidd as part of starry group.
That seems weird. I would've thought Ray was a no-brainer first ballot guy.
My complaints about Ray's behavior notwithstanding, he's definitely a Hall of Famer. And though I think the notion of "first ballot" Hall of Famer is silly—someone is either a Hall of Famer or they're not—he should definitely be a first-ballot guy.
I am thinking there is a chance Ray is losing the respect of his peers right now with the scorned lover routine he is doing on the talk show circuit. You really don't see that many players trying slam their ex teammates with locker room stories a few years after retiring when some of the other players are still playing and trying to make a living. Wouldn't surprise me if a few voters thought they didn't want the focus of hall of fame weekend to be Allen doing more interviews to promote his book and how the celtics screwed him (he is on front page of espn nba section again talking about that).
I understand this aspect, but this is the kind of stuff that absolutely should not factor into a player's consideration for the Hall of Fame. A player's attitude toward his former teammates or employer(s), or a player's attitude toward the media—none of these things should have any bearing on whether a player gets into his sport's Hall of Fame. The only question that should matter is: "Is (Player X) one of the best of all time?" In Allen's case, the answer is a clear "yes," because he's absolutely one of the best long-range shooters ever.
Well its not like he won't ever get in. If they feel like he is acting like a sideshow right now and want to have him wait a year when he isn't throwing dirt on a bunch of current and former players, is that the end of the world?
No, not the end of the world at all, but to me, it's not a matter of "first ballot," "second ballot," "tenth ballot'; a player is either a HOFer or he isn't. It's really that simple. If people want to "send a message" to a malcontent like Ray, they can text him their disapproval, or give his book horrible reviews on Amazon. ;D
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When he retired, Mo Cheeks was (i) Top 5 All Time in assists (ii) #1 All Time in steals.
I don't think he gets the respect he deserves on here.
Outside of the freakish talents of Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertsons and a few others ... at that time, Mo Cheeks was the quintessential PG (bettered since by John Stockton). He represented everything you want in a PG. One of the best defensive PGs ever. Excellent decision maker and floor general. An excellent leader (widely regarded as main leader inside that Sixers locker room). A solid rebounder. A very good passer. A solid scorer who could drive, shoot and was a menace in transition. Like I said, he represented everything you wanted from your PG. He made everyone around him better on both ends of the court and was a consummate leader. A guy who always put the team before himself and had great success individually and collective during his career.
I am shocked that it has taken this long for Mo Cheeks to be in the HoF. I would have him in much sooner.
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When he retired, Mo Cheeks was (i) Top 5 All Time in assists (ii) #1 All Time in steals.
I don't think he gets the respect he deserves on here.
Outside of the freakish talents of Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertsons ... at that time, Mo Cheeks was the quintessential PG. He represented everything you want in a PG. One of the best defensive PGs ever. Excellent decision maker and floor general. An excellent leader (widely regarded as main leader inside that Sixers locker room). A solid rebounder. A very good passer. A solid scorer who could drive, shoot and was a menace in transition.
I am shocked that it has taken this long for Mo Cheeks to be in the HoF. I would have him in much sooner.
His career numbers are largely due to longevity though. His 6.7 assists per game for his career are not that impressive (34th alltime). He was only an all star four times, and never made an all NBA team.
Does anybody believe that Alvin Robertson should be a Hall of Famer? Mo Cheeks is on that level.
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When he retired, Mo Cheeks was (i) Top 5 All Time in assists (ii) #1 All Time in steals.
Here's an interesting thought that this reminds me of.
Had John Stockton never played in the NBA, Mark Jackson would have retired in 2004 as the All-Time assist leader having passed HOFers Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Isaiah Thomas to top the list.
He would have been HOF eligible in the class of 2010, but Jason Kidd would have passed him as the leader in Nov 2009, a few months before HOF voting.
So in a world where Mark Jackson has a 5-6 year reign as the all time assist leader, does he as a 1x All-Star and ROY get in the HOF in 2010?
Kind of hard to keep a guy who was the all time leader in one of the big 3 stats out of the hall.
What a world that would be.
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The fact that Grant Hill got into the HOF is a joke.
If he doesn't get hurt we'd be talking about him being one of the greatest of all time.
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The fact that Grant Hill got into the HOF is a joke.
If he doesn't get hurt we'd be talking about him being one of the greatest of all time.
If Cheeks got hurt when Hill did guys like Rod Strickland and Marbury would be more Hall worthy.
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Apparently, ESPN is reporting now that Ray DID make it in the HOF.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22978026/jason-kidd-steve-nash-ray-allen-grant-hill-headline-2018-naismith-memorial-basketball-hall-fame-class
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Apparently, ESPN is reporting now that Ray DID make it in the HOF.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22978026/jason-kidd-steve-nash-ray-allen-grant-hill-headline-2018-naismith-memorial-basketball-hall-fame-class
Down at the end of the article it says Dino Radja is going into the HOF as well.
The 2018 Hall of Fame class is rounded out by Rod Thorn, a longtime NBA executive and the general manager of the Chicago Bulls when they drafted Michael Jordan; Charlie Scott, a five-time All-Star who scored nearly 15,000 combined points in the ABA and NBA; Rick Welts, president of the Warriors; Dino Radja, one of FIBA's 50 greatest players and a two-time EuroLeague champion who played for the Celtics; and Ora Mae Washington, a dominant basketball and tennis player whom Arthur Ashe once said "may have been the best female athlete ever."
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Apparently, ESPN is reporting now that Ray DID make it in the HOF.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22978026/jason-kidd-steve-nash-ray-allen-grant-hill-headline-2018-naismith-memorial-basketball-hall-fame-class
Down at the end of the article it says Dino Radja is going into the HOF as well.
The 2018 Hall of Fame class is rounded out by Rod Thorn, a longtime NBA executive and the general manager of the Chicago Bulls when they drafted Michael Jordan; Charlie Scott, a five-time All-Star who scored nearly 15,000 combined points in the ABA and NBA; Rick Welts, president of the Warriors; Dino Radja, one of FIBA's 50 greatest players and a two-time EuroLeague champion who played for the Celtics; and Ora Mae Washington, a dominant basketball and tennis player whom Arthur Ashe once said "may have been the best female athlete ever."
WOW! Dino!!! They are letting everybody in these days ;D
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Apparently, ESPN is reporting now that Ray DID make it in the HOF.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22978026/jason-kidd-steve-nash-ray-allen-grant-hill-headline-2018-naismith-memorial-basketball-hall-fame-class
Glad to see that Ray is in on the first ballot. Well deserved.
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Dino and Charlie Scott
Hate to say it but i don't see them HOF level
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I always thought Toni Kukoc had the better non-NBA career (obviously though, this is only what I've heard, no first hand experience), and he had the much better NBA career too.
So how does Dino make it in before Kukoc?
Kukoc accomplishments:
3× NBA champion (1996–1998)
NBA Sixth Man of the Year (1996)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1994)
3× EuroLeague champion (1989–1991)
FIBA European Selection (1991)
4× Yugoslav League champion (1988–1991)
2× Yugoslav Cup winner (1990, 1991)
Italian League champion (1992)
Italian Cup winner (1993)
3× Croatian Sportsman of the Year (1989–1991)
FIBA World Cup MVP (1990)
3× EuroLeague Final Four MVP (1990, 1991, 1993)
4× Mister Europa Player of the Year (1990–1992, 1996)
5× Euroscar Player of the Year (1990, 1991, 1994, 1996, 1998)
FIBA EuroBasket MVP (1991)
FIBA's 50 Greatest Players (1991)
50 Greatest EuroLeague Contributors (2008)
Radja's accomplishments:
2× EuroLeague champion (1989, 1990)
FIBA European Selection (1991)
FIBA Korać Cup champion (1992)
3× Yugoslav League champion (1988–1990)
2× Greek League champion (1998, 1999)
Greek League Finals MVP (1998)
2× Croatian League champion (2002, 2003)
Yugoslav Cup winner (1990)
Croatian Cup winner (2000)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1994)
EuroLeague Final Four MVP (1989)
FIBA's 50 Greatest Players (1991)
50 Greatest EuroLeague Contributors (2008)
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Glad to see Ray getting in.
Glad to see Gant Hill getting in, too. I think 5 All NBA selections and a career that wound up lasting as long as his did (at age 38 he started 80 games and played 30 mpg, kind of incredible given his injuries) deserves recognition.
Cheeks is a stretch for me. He made 4 all star teams and never made an All NBA team. I guess he's getting in on the strength of 5 All Defense selections and being a starter on the Fo-Fi-Fo Philly team.
Cool seeing Dino get in. I don't know anything about his international play so I didn't even realize he was in contention. So that's nice.
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I always thought Toni Kukoc had the better non-NBA career (obviously though, this is only what I've heard, no first-hand experience), and he had the much better NBA career too.
So how does Dino make it in before Kukoc?
Kukoc accomplishments:
3× NBA champion (1996–1998)
NBA Sixth Man of the Year (1996)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1994)
3× EuroLeague champion (1989–1991)
FIBA European Selection (1991)
4× Yugoslav League champion (1988–1991)
2× Yugoslav Cup winner (1990, 1991)
Italian League champion (1992)
Italian Cup winner (1993)
3× Croatian Sportsman of the Year (1989–1991)
FIBA World Cup MVP (1990)
3× EuroLeague Final Four MVP (1990, 1991, 1993)
4× Mister Europa Player of the Year (1990–1992, 1996)
5× Euroscar Player of the Year (1990, 1991, 1994, 1996, 1998)
FIBA EuroBasket MVP (1991)
FIBA's 50 Greatest Players (1991)
50 Greatest EuroLeague Contributors (2008)
Radja's accomplishments:
2× EuroLeague champion (1989, 1990)
FIBA European Selection (1991)
FIBA Korać Cup champion (1992)
3× Yugoslav League champion (1988–1990)
2× Greek League champion (1998, 1999)
Greek League Finals MVP (1998)
2× Croatian League champion (2002, 2003)
Yugoslav Cup winner (1990)
Croatian Cup winner (2000)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1994)
EuroLeague Final Four MVP (1989)
FIBA's 50 Greatest Players (1991)
50 Greatest EuroLeague Contributors (2008)
Good nose bdm860!
I don't understand how Dino gets in before Toni either.
He was a more complete player by any standard.
He won the Euroleague (Eurocup back then) with Pop84 (Jugoplastika) in the year Dino left the club for big Deutch Marks in Italy. I don't blame him, but we won without him.
A year later Toni led Benetton squad to a Eurocup final without Dino.
He also has 3 NBA rings. 3, huge accomplishment!
And he scored 31 in a finals game on 13 shots:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199806120CHI.html
He was good enough to play in the NBA at the age of 38 when he was as slow as Dirk is now.
It is yet another questionable announcement by that institution.
Colangelo's...
I, as a Croat, am very glad to see Dino achieve that status regardless.
He is the 4th Croat to make it.
Players;
Krešo Ćosić, (Crash-oo Cho-sitch) little known 1st small ball center in my book, as he could shoot from the outside, dribble and pass/playmake, kind of how Big Al plays now in the modern ball. Krešo was a gentleman of his time and a player ahead of his time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2k40KmUYE0
Dražen Petrović, the Mozart, no need to explain that one.
And our famous coach Mirko Novosel, who particularly frustrated USSR's, but also whole basketball world for about a decade coaching the Yugoslav team.
On the bright side, this Dino's enshrinement surely means that Toni will get in somehow and give our small nation the 5th HOF member in the near future.
Also, if there is a HOF for Phlegmatic people both of them should be 1st ballot inductees. ;D