Horford’s Leadership Overrated

[Eddiebird]

Long time reader and first time poster here on Celticsstrong.
I wish the C’s would have been able to keep Horford. He is a good big man on a team that is short on big men. However; I think the idea that he is some great locker room presence is inflated. Last years team was a disaster in terms of chemistry and results and Horford was not able to stop the bleeding of in fighting. I’m sure he’s a good guy who minds his own business and acts like a pro but from the outside it kind of looks like the leadership ends there. Sort of like Jeter who gets credit for being a leader for neve getting into trouble but you can’t find a teammate of his who can ever think of a time when he opened his mouth or called somebody out.

[Jiri Welsch]

Welcome Eddiebird!!

I see what you’re saying—Horford’s lead-by-example mentality could only do so much. However, I can remember countless times during interviews when the young guys heaped a ton of praise upon Al.

Remember Al’s game winner against Portland when the entire team mobbed him at center court? Sure, a guy like Al isn’t going to turn the entire ship around, but if you’re trying to build a high-character team, a guy like Al is indispensable.

All this is to say, I really do think Al was a great leader. I just hope someone else (Hayward?) fills his shoes next year.

[Eddiebird]

I agree Jiri that the players liked him but I’m defining leadership as getting others to do what you want and need them to do and nobody- including the coach, was able to accomplish that.

[hodgy03038]

There is your first Tommy Point my friend. I loved Big Al but tend to agree with you on leadership.

[Atzar]

I’ve thought the same thing for a while now.  Good locker room presence?  Certainly.  But that’s different from being a leader.

[rondofan1255]

I get what you're saying, sort of like Conley when he was with Memphis last year.

[ManUp]

Last years problems were an organizational failure.

Horford can't challenge a guy like Kyrie if the coach and management won't back him up. They clearly allowed him to do what he wanted because they were terrified he would leave. Arguing with the coach on the sideline, ignoring the play-calls, taking shots at teammates through the media, and being an over-all jerk with impunity.

It was the Celtics organization that made it "Kyrie's Team" and they paid the price.

[wiley]

Hard to judge this.  Things might have been 12 times worse without Al.  He is respected by all.  And Jaylen said he’s the smartest guy in the team.  Hard not to call him a silent leader...

But they’ll be fine without him...

[gouki88]

Welcome!

I can see where you’re coming from, but I wouldn’t necessarily agree.

This reminds me of when someone gets out of a relationship and starts to remember the whole thing as this terribly tragic affair. Instead of looking past all the issues like they did during the relationship, they’re now exaggerating them to soften the blow.

I feel like that’s what’s happening. Now that Al is seemingly gone we say things like this, meanwhile when he was here his leadership was the gold standard. In all likelihood it was somewhere in between.

TP for joining up!

[jambr380]

Last years problems were an organizational failure.

Horford can't challenge a guy like Kyrie if the coach and management won't back him up. They clearly allowed him to do what he wanted because they were terrified he would leave. Arguing with the coach on the sideline, ignoring the play-calls, taking shots at teammates through the media, and being an over-all jerk with impunity.

It was the Celtics organization that made it "Kyrie's Team" and they paid the price.

But he didn’t need to challenge Kyrie in an aggressive way. He could have, for instance, invited Kyrie out to dinner to allow Kyrie to voice his frustrations and discuss strategies for getting the team on the same page. I mean, who knows, maybe this happened, but I totally get what the OP is talking about.

That said, a young team losing a lead by example super-professional like Horford is going to at least hurt a little bit. Smart seems to have a lot of leadership qualities and he is finally entering veteran territory. Hopefully guys like Tatum and Brown have soaked in some of what Al provided. Al will be missed.

[Roy H.]

Horford is the “lead by example, work with the young guys, give the occasional rallying speech”.

He’s not going to be able to fix guys with major attitude problems. Some groups just have horrible chemistry. James Jones is a tremendous leader, yet the Cavs had season long chemistry issues his last year.  Andre Iguodala is a great leader, but Durant and Greene still clashed.

Even a guy like KG couldn’t keep Ray and Rondo on the same page. Eventually, there was a quasi-mutiny between young guys and vets.

[Roy H.]

Horford is the “lead by example, work with the young guys, give the occasional rallying speech”.

He’s not going to be able to fix guys with major attitude problems. Some groups just have horrible chemistry. James Jones is a tremendous leader, yet the Cavs had season long chemistry issues his last year.  Andre Iguodala is a great leader, but Durant and Greene still clashed.

Even a guy like KG couldn’t keep Ray and Rondo on the same page. Eventually, there was a quasi-mutiny between young guys and vets.

Horford did his job, we just had too many guys with conflicting goals.

[Ogaju]

Welcome Eddiebird!!

I see what you’re saying—Horford’s lead-by-example mentality could only do so much. However, I can remember countless times during interviews when the young guys heaped a ton of praise upon Al.

Remember Al’s game winner against Portland when the entire team mobbed him at center court? Sure, a guy like Al isn’t going to turn the entire ship around, but if you’re trying to build a high-character team, a guy like Al is indispensable.

All this is to say, I really do think Al was a great leader. I just hope someone else (Hayward?) fills his shoes next year.

there goes that high character term again, are  Cs going for high character or for championship. Name the last high character team to win the NBA chip.

[gouki88]

Welcome Eddiebird!!

I see what you’re saying—Horford’s lead-by-example mentality could only do so much. However, I can remember countless times during interviews when the young guys heaped a ton of praise upon Al.

Remember Al’s game winner against Portland when the entire team mobbed him at center court? Sure, a guy like Al isn’t going to turn the entire ship around, but if you’re trying to build a high-character team, a guy like Al is indispensable.

All this is to say, I really do think Al was a great leader. I just hope someone else (Hayward?) fills his shoes next year.

there goes that high character term again, are  Cs going for high character or for championship. Name the last high character team to win the NBA chip.

San Antonio had a pretty decent run as a high character team.

[Ogaju]

Last years problems were an organizational failure.

Horford can't challenge a guy like Kyrie if the coach and management won't back him up. They clearly allowed him to do what he wanted because they were terrified he would leave. Arguing with the coach on the sideline, ignoring the play-calls, taking shots at teammates through the media, and being an over-all jerk with impunity.

It was the Celtics organization that made it "Kyrie's Team" and they paid the price.

This!!!