Anyone upset about the wasted assets?

[Bobshot]

[/quote]
In the last 8 drafts (before this past summer), Bradley, Sullinger, and Moore were excellent picks for their draft position, but that is pretty much it (and Moore was on the team for one Ainge does a great job trading and generating future assets, but he has done a pretty poor job turning those future assets into actual assets and that is what matters far more.
[/quote]

I agree with this. Danny generates a lot of "assets", but most seem to be wasted. His only real assets are the Nets picks--lottery assets.

[Surferdad]

In the last 8 drafts (before this past summer), Bradley, Sullinger, and Moore were excellent picks for their draft position, but that is pretty much it (and Moore was on the team for one Ainge does a great job trading and generating future assets, but he has done a pretty poor job turning those future assets into actual assets and that is what matters far more.
[/quote]

I agree with this. Danny generates a lot of "assets", but most seem to be wasted. His only real assets are the Nets picks--lottery assets.
[/quote]
Maybe we just have a different definition of 'wasted'.  I see none of them as wasted, only that they didn't turn into the player we all hoped for.

[kozlodoev]

Speaking of "wasted assets", on another note, the new fantasy values for '16 just came out at CDM, and Sullinger has a higher fantasy value than Amir, Olynyk and Zeller. Now, Sully did have conditioning problems, and his playoff collapse didn't figure into his fantasy value--basically points and rebounds--but it does make you wonder. Sully at his best is better than the other three, no matter how many Big Macs he eats.

Fortunately for us, fantasy "value" is completely irrelevant.

[spikelovetheCelts]

Speaking of "wasted assets", on another note, the new fantasy values for '16 just came out at CDM, and Sullinger has a higher fantasy value than Amir, Olynyk and Zeller. Now, Sully did have conditioning problems, and his playoff collapse didn't figure into his fantasy value--basically points and rebounds--but it does make you wonder. Sully at his best is better than the other three, no matter how many Big Macs he eats.

Fortunately for us, fantasy "value" is completely irrelevant.

It will be interesting to see what Sully does this year. I also think Danny will nail this draft. He had so many picks he knew this draft better. Plus I think Brown was Brad's guy if no trade happen.

[JBcat]

I've been thinking about the discussion in this thread, and my answer to this question is no.

Even if you think his drafting is average Ainge is one of the best in accumulating assets or simply draft picks.   So it gives him more chances to land solid players as drafting can be an inexact science (as pointed out several times in this thread).   I mean seriously if you look at Ainge's entire tenure or even since 2008 I don't think there is another team that has had more draft picks.   He has landed solid players in the teens in Bradley and KO, made use out of Sully in recent years.  I'm hoping for more from Smart, and a case can be made we should have drafted Randle (but he didn't even want to work out for us), so I can live with the pick.  The book obviously has yet to be written about Brown.       

We have a youngish team, lots of flexibility, should win around 50 games, and still have 4 future first rounders coming from other teams (2 Nets picks, Grizzlies, and Clippers).

I will also say it may be premature to write the final book on our recent draftees (I'm not even sure Young is of drinking age yet although I will admit I'm not crazy about his game) as we don't know how this will all play out with our final roster, or what more improvements they will make to their game.   But if we have to cut 1 or 2 of our recent draftees from the second half of the first round it's not the end of the world.   I might think a little differently if we had won 25 games last year, but we don't have that type of team.  It's a good problem to have that not many teams can share, and we still have a great amount of assets to make our team even better.   

I just wanted to add to what I was saying earlier here.

There are different ways to pick assets other than draft picks.  Of course if you hit on a draft pick you have a cost controlled player for his first contract and restricted rights to sign his second contract.

If you pick up better players than you lose in free agency it's like gaining an asset.  I'd much rather have Amir Johnson than Brandon Bass.  Horford obviously over Sully, and you could argue Gerald Green's minimum contract is a better asset than Turner's now huge contract.  Over the years Ainge has done a good job of attracting free agents even when we were over the cap.  The one free agent loss that hurt was Tony Allen.  That was definitely losing a key asset.

If you win a trade it's like gaining an asset. I'll have to look back at the trade but it's almost like we Zeller out of basically nothing lol, Jonas I'll definitely rather have now than Prince, I'd take Crowder straight up over Rondo now, and we all know about the Thomas trade.

So basically what I'm saying if we lose out on some non lottery picks it doesn't bother me as I try to look at the bigger picture.  These high lottery picks possibly coming along with Brown, and Smart are key though.  We have to hit big on at least 1 of them.

[MBunge]

Put it this way, Ainge has had 3 1st round picks in those 8 drafts, play less than 1 full season combined and none of the 3 was a draft and stash player.  That is frankly unbelievable.

You're so easy to entertain 

*yawn*

Yep.  Still don't think my analysis of Ainge's drafting has been wrong. 

I'm shocked that a guy whining in 2016 about Ainge blowing the 30th pick of the draft in 2008 doesn't understand how silly he is being.

Mike

[Moranis]

I've been thinking about the discussion in this thread, and my answer to this question is no.

Even if you think his drafting is average Ainge is one of the best in accumulating assets or simply draft picks.   So it gives him more chances to land solid players as drafting can be an inexact science (as pointed out several times in this thread).   I mean seriously if you look at Ainge's entire tenure or even since 2008 I don't think there is another team that has had more draft picks.   He has landed solid players in the teens in Bradley and KO, made use out of Sully in recent years.  I'm hoping for more from Smart, and a case can be made we should have drafted Randle (but he didn't even want to work out for us), so I can live with the pick.  The book obviously has yet to be written about Brown.       

We have a youngish team, lots of flexibility, should win around 50 games, and still have 4 future first rounders coming from other teams (2 Nets picks, Grizzlies, and Clippers).

I will also say it may be premature to write the final book on our recent draftees (I'm not even sure Young is of drinking age yet although I will admit I'm not crazy about his game) as we don't know how this will all play out with our final roster, or what more improvements they will make to their game.   But if we have to cut 1 or 2 of our recent draftees from the second half of the first round it's not the end of the world.   I might think a little differently if we had won 25 games last year, but we don't have that type of team.  It's a good problem to have that not many teams can share, and we still have a great amount of assets to make our team even better.   

I just wanted to add to what I was saying earlier here.

There are different ways to pick assets other than draft picks.  Of course if you hit on a draft pick you have a cost controlled player for his first contract and restricted rights to sign his second contract.

If you pick up better players than you lose in free agency it's like gaining an asset.  I'd much rather have Amir Johnson than Brandon Bass.  Horford obviously over Sully, and you could argue Gerald Green's minimum contract is a better asset than Turner's now huge contract.  Over the years Ainge has done a good job of attracting free agents even when we were over the cap.  The one free agent loss that hurt was Tony Allen.  That was definitely losing a key asset.

If you win a trade it's like gaining an asset. I'll have to look back at the trade but it's almost like we Zeller out of basically nothing lol, Jonas I'll definitely rather have now than Prince, I'd take Crowder straight up over Rondo now, and we all know about the Thomas trade.

So basically what I'm saying if we lose out on some non lottery picks it doesn't bother me as I try to look at the bigger picture.  These high lottery picks possibly coming along with Brown, and Smart are key though.  We have to hit big on at least 1 of them.

Obviously these are fair points, and it is always better to upgrade, but on the flip side, if Young was better, Boston could have just replaced Turner with him and not had to sign Green (whose spot could have then been used to keep one of the other young guys). The team is obviously in an ok spot, but has really missed on a lot of draft picks that could have added depth or maybe been a star. 

[BitterJim]

I've been thinking about the discussion in this thread, and my answer to this question is no.

Even if you think his drafting is average Ainge is one of the best in accumulating assets or simply draft picks.   So it gives him more chances to land solid players as drafting can be an inexact science (as pointed out several times in this thread).   I mean seriously if you look at Ainge's entire tenure or even since 2008 I don't think there is another team that has had more draft picks.   He has landed solid players in the teens in Bradley and KO, made use out of Sully in recent years.  I'm hoping for more from Smart, and a case can be made we should have drafted Randle (but he didn't even want to work out for us), so I can live with the pick.  The book obviously has yet to be written about Brown.       

We have a youngish team, lots of flexibility, should win around 50 games, and still have 4 future first rounders coming from other teams (2 Nets picks, Grizzlies, and Clippers).

I will also say it may be premature to write the final book on our recent draftees (I'm not even sure Young is of drinking age yet although I will admit I'm not crazy about his game) as we don't know how this will all play out with our final roster, or what more improvements they will make to their game.   But if we have to cut 1 or 2 of our recent draftees from the second half of the first round it's not the end of the world.   I might think a little differently if we had won 25 games last year, but we don't have that type of team.  It's a good problem to have that not many teams can share, and we still have a great amount of assets to make our team even better.   

I just wanted to add to what I was saying earlier here.

There are different ways to pick assets other than draft picks.  Of course if you hit on a draft pick you have a cost controlled player for his first contract and restricted rights to sign his second contract.

If you pick up better players than you lose in free agency it's like gaining an asset.  I'd much rather have Amir Johnson than Brandon Bass.  Horford obviously over Sully, and you could argue Gerald Green's minimum contract is a better asset than Turner's now huge contract.  Over the years Ainge has done a good job of attracting free agents even when we were over the cap.  The one free agent loss that hurt was Tony Allen.  That was definitely losing a key asset.

If you win a trade it's like gaining an asset. I'll have to look back at the trade but it's almost like we Zeller out of basically nothing lol, Jonas I'll definitely rather have now than Prince, I'd take Crowder straight up over Rondo now, and we all know about the Thomas trade.

So basically what I'm saying if we lose out on some non lottery picks it doesn't bother me as I try to look at the bigger picture.  These high lottery picks possibly coming along with Brown, and Smart are key though.  We have to hit big on at least 1 of them.

Obviously these are fair points, and it is always better to upgrade, but on the flip side, if Young was better, Boston could have just replaced Turner with him and not had to sign Green (whose spot could have then been used to keep one of the other young guys). The team is obviously in an ok spot, but has really missed on a lot of draft picks that could have added depth or maybe been a star.

Unless we keep Young (which I don't think will happen), there's no difference between the scenario where we sign Green and where Young improves and fills his shoes

[Moranis]

Ainge full draft analysis

2003 - Banks (underperformed), Perkins (overperformed), Hunter (solid enough for a 2nd rounder, with 67 games total)
2004 - Jefferson (significantly overperformed), West (underperformed - though mental rather than physical and Boston traded him before he imploded so Ainge used that one well), Allen (overperformed), Reed (overperformed for a 2nd rounder)
2005 - Green (underperformed especially for Boston), Gomes (overperformed), Greene (overperformed for a 2nd rounder)
2006 - traded a lottery pick for Sebastian Telfair (wasted asset), Rondo (significantly overperformed - gave up a future 1st which turned out to be 24 in 2007 so solid trade as well)
2007 - traded a lottery pick for Ray Allen (used asset well), Davis (overperformed), Pruitt (solid enough)
2008 - Giddens (horrible), Erden (solid, though just 69 games total, but for pick 60 that isn't bad)
2009 - Hudson (same as Erden basically)
2010 - Bradley (overperformed), Harangody (same as Erden basically)
2011 - JJJ (horrible), Moore (overperformed - real nice value for end of 2nd round)
2012 - Sullinger (overperformed, though no longer on team), Melo (underperformed), Joseph (about average)
2013 - Olynyk (in a redraft he probably goes around 15, though ahead of most of the guys taken before him, just behind a lot of guys taken after him - so I will call this about average performance)
2014 - Smart (fairly early, but at this point looks more like the 10th pick than the 6th pick so I'll call that underperformed), Young (underperformed)
2015 - Rozier (probably too early to call Rozier), Hunter (if he ges cut then he underperformed)

So Ainge has traded into the lottery twice for Banks and Olynyk, neither one could be considered a success and Banks was an outright failure.  4 times Boston has had a lottery pick entering the draft.  The first two times Ainge traded the pick, once successfully, once badly.  The last two, Ainge has drafted i.e. Smart and Brown, so it is early to know how he did there, though Smart is looking more like the 10th pick than the 6th pick thus far.  Ainge has done quite well in the 2nd round overall, often getting players that at least play in the league a fair amount of the time and three times landing multiple contract NBA players in Gomes, Davis, and Moore.  The mid to late 1st round have been a real crap shoot.  Obviously Jefferson and Rondo were raging successes and Perkins, Bradley, and Sullinger have had solid careers, but he also took a number of players that were absolute failures.  My real concern, as I've stated in this thread, is Ainge is trending in the wrong direction.  His hits aren't hitting as nicely and he is missing a lot more frequently. 

[kozlodoev]

Delonte west averaged 10/3/4 in 430+ games over 8 seasons. How much do you really expect from the 24th pick in the draft?!

[celticsclay]

Delonte west averaged 10/3/4 in 430+ games over 8 seasons. How much do you really expect from the 24th pick in the draft?!

Lol seriously. Talk about delusional. Moranis would rather have Hollis thompson

[MBunge]

In a redraft of 2014, Smart would be closer to going at #4 than #10.  Maybe you'd jump Elfrid Payton and Zach Lavine over Smart, but you'd just as likely move Smart ahead of Aaron Gordon and Dant Exum.

Mike

[saltlover]

In a redraft of 2014, Smart would be closer to going at #4 than #10.  Maybe you'd jump Elfrid Payton and Zach Lavine over Smart, but you'd just as likely move Smart ahead of Aaron Gordon and Dant Exum.

Mike

And ahead of Embiid, blasphemy tho that is on this board.

Also, no way should you move Payton ahead of Smart.

[Moranis]

Delonte west averaged 10/3/4 in 430+ games over 8 seasons. How much do you really expect from the 24th pick in the draft?!

I was probably bit harsh on him.  But if you look at the actual draft in a redraft he goes in the 21-25 range, so that puts him right about where he went.  So not an underperform, but certainly not an overperform.  Just for some facts, he was 24th in games played, 21st in winshares (and one of the guys ahead of him here was behind him in games), etc.  Plus, he was such a headcase and lockerroom concern, especially at the end.  It is a real shame he had a mental illness because he certainly could have had a much better/longer career.

[Moranis]

Smart would not go 4th. 

Wiggins, Parker, and Gordon all still go ahead of him.  Nurkic, Jokic, Payton, Lavine all likely go ahead of him.  Then depending on the team Randle, Embiid, Saric, Exum, Hood, Clarkson, Capela  might.