Author Topic: It's time to have some perspective  (Read 5398 times)

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Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2019, 05:55:53 PM »

Offline Triplenickle

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Hayward is about 6'7 and too slow to stay with anyone under that size.  He's not physical or strong enough to guard anyone bigger than that.

He's 6'8", maybe a quarter inch taller depending on what shoes he's wearing.

And, he's generally been an average to above-average defender of SFs.  He was a key cog in a defense that ranked 7th and 3rd in the NBA his two years prior to signing with Boston.

And I don't even know what to say to you linking concussions and toughness in some way.

I thought he was 6'8 but tried not to make him look so bad.  And wasn't Ben wallace about 6'8?  And Barkley was 6'5 getting 14-18 rebounds easy against hall of fame centers.  It's what is between the ears, and for me Hayward just has to go.

For a player not knowing a pick is coming basically everytime someone puts the ball on the floor in games and in practice, is a player that cannot play for me...along with his multitude of other negatives.

I've just seen too many great defenders find a way to get by picks in a league of hand-checking and holding to ever forgive being that weak at it.

Also :)   For Rozier to basically say he doesn't wanna play with Kyrie and Hayward tells me he knows what's going on, on the floor and has a higher bbiq than yall would ever dare to give him.
This is some hilarious posting. Wow, it's almost as if different players have different skill-sets. Why isn't Al Horford as good a rebounder as Bill Russell - they're the same height?? Genuinely dumbfounding.

You're just making things up about him and when people dispute it saying "well it's what I see!" even when it's completely arbitrary.

The last line about Rozier had me rolling. Perhaps the dumbest point guard in the NBA, and certainly one of the most toxic. Hope he wastes away on an irrelevant team

Here's the thing though...why do you and some others think Kyrie and Hayward is gonna kill the franchise if they leave...when they just killed the franchise right before your eyes and broke your heart?

And i'm supposed to feel silly about my views?

Basically after sweeping the Pacers, Kyrie had a brain fart, flipped a switch, forgot to pass, and got swept himself after showing the world the game before we are very capable of handling that team.

A brain fart doesn't get any worse or longer than that...and with all his weaknesses, trangressions, and lack of leadership and stepping on Al and Smart's toes...gave you a whopping 22 ppg.

....clap....clap

Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2019, 06:04:40 PM »

Offline Never Nervous Pervis

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Quote
Here's the thing though...why do you and some others think Kyrie and Hayward is gonna kill the franchise if they leave...when they just killed the franchise right before your eyes and broke your heart?

And i'm supposed to feel silly about my views?

Basically after sweeping the Pacers, Kyrie had a brain fart, flipped a switch, forgot to pass, and got swept himself after showing the world the game before we are very capable of handling that team.

A brain fart doesn't get any worse or longer than that...and with all his weaknesses, trangressions, and lack of leadership and stepping on Al and Smart's toes...gave you a whopping 22 ppg.

....clap....clap

Nothing about this post makes any sense. No facts, no logic, no attempt at coherence.

Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2019, 06:10:28 PM »

Offline Triplenickle

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Quote
Here's the thing though...why do you and some others think Kyrie and Hayward is gonna kill the franchise if they leave...when they just killed the franchise right before your eyes and broke your heart?

And i'm supposed to feel silly about my views?

Basically after sweeping the Pacers, Kyrie had a brain fart, flipped a switch, forgot to pass, and got swept himself after showing the world the game before we are very capable of handling that team.

A brain fart doesn't get any worse or longer than that...and with all his weaknesses, trangressions, and lack of leadership and stepping on Al and Smart's toes...gave you a whopping 22 ppg.

....clap....clap

Nothing about this post makes any sense. No facts, no logic, no attempt at coherence.

Number 1, i'm kinda teasin him. Number2...the biggest fact staring you in the face is they're out...unless you're still watching them play somewhere.

This is why I think some of yall are a high-school Click, by the way  :)

Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2019, 06:13:24 PM »

Offline mobilija

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Quote
Here's the thing though...why do you and some others think Kyrie and Hayward is gonna kill the franchise if they leave...when they just killed the franchise right before your eyes and broke your heart?

And i'm supposed to feel silly about my views?

Basically after sweeping the Pacers, Kyrie had a brain fart, flipped a switch, forgot to pass, and got swept himself after showing the world the game before we are very capable of handling that team.

A brain fart doesn't get any worse or longer than that...and with all his weaknesses, trangressions, and lack of leadership and stepping on Al and Smart's toes...gave you a whopping 22 ppg.

....clap....clap

Nothing about this post makes any sense. No facts, no logic, no attempt at coherence.

Number 1, i'm kinda teasin him. Number2...the biggest fact staring you in the face is they're out...unless you're still watching them play somewhere.

This is why I think some of yall are a high-school Click, by the way  :)

So... you think Celtics would still be playing basketball right now if Kyrie didn’t play in the Bucks series?

Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2019, 06:14:53 PM »

Offline Never Nervous Pervis

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Number 1, i'm kinda teasin him. Number2...the biggest fact staring you in the face is they're out...unless you're still watching them play somewhere.

This is why I think some of yall are a high-school Click, by the way  :)

A second round playoff exit did not "kill the franchise." And the word you're looking for is "clique."

Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2019, 06:23:36 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Quote
Here's the thing though...why do you and some others think Kyrie and Hayward is gonna kill the franchise if they leave...when they just killed the franchise right before your eyes and broke your heart?

And i'm supposed to feel silly about my views?

Basically after sweeping the Pacers, Kyrie had a brain fart, flipped a switch, forgot to pass, and got swept himself after showing the world the game before we are very capable of handling that team.

A brain fart doesn't get any worse or longer than that...and with all his weaknesses, trangressions, and lack of leadership and stepping on Al and Smart's toes...gave you a whopping 22 ppg.

....clap....clap

Nothing about this post makes any sense. No facts, no logic, no attempt at coherence.

Number 1, i'm kinda teasin him. Number2...the biggest fact staring you in the face is they're out...unless you're still watching them play somewhere.

This is why I think some of yall are a high-school Click, by the way  :)

But it just doesn't make logical sense from an asset accumulation perspective. Even if you absolutely hate Kyrie, you have to at least realize that he is our biggest star and there are plenty of teams who would love to pay him the max. Given those circumstances, you don't not sign your best player to a max contract just because two other guys (Horford and Hayward) are already making it. I've also seen you bring up needing to sign Tatum and Brown as reasons not sign Kyrie, but Hayward Horford will be coming off their deals as each of the Jays are due for theirs. The timing is actually perfect.

And if Kyrie just isn't working out, you trade him for a solid package rather than watching him walk for nothing with no possibility of reasonably replacing his production or salary. It's why I am okay with going all in for AD. If we trade Tatum and Smart for AD, sign Kyrie to a max, and then AD leaves after this season, then at least we will have Kyrie to use in a trade to re-acquire young assets (like Tatum and Smart). Just letting Kyrie walk pretty much guarantees we won't make a Finals appearance for at least several years to come. Having AD and Kyrie gives us a legitimate chance!

And if it does work out, we have AD and Kyrie on long-term max contracts. That is way better than having Hayward and Horford on long-term max contracts.

Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2019, 07:19:58 PM »

Offline ManUp

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This team had the talent to stay with the Bucks and Raptors record wise. I never expected to win a Championship, I would've been ok with a second round exit had we went out with some fight. The problem was this team had Chemistry issues stemming from poor coaching decisions, roster logjams, and a star who just couldn't make things easy for himself.

Coaching mistakes: Playing favorites with Hayward and failing to define roles for the young secondary players (Rozier, Tatum, Brown). Kyrie, Smart, Horford, Baynes, and Morris all knew what they were here for the younger guys not so much.

Roster Logjams: Two many guards and wings not enough minutes. Too few Bigs and not enough health. Maybe we could've trade Rozier for a rotation backup big, who knows. Playing 3 of Tatum, Brown, Hayward, and Morris at the same time just didn't work.

The start who couldn't make his own life easier: Kyrie is simply horrible with the media. From "ask me july 1st" to "I called Lebron" to  "We won't lose because I'm here" to "I should've shot it 30 times". He just kept making things harder on himself through the media and seemingly feeding dysfunction inside the locker room. If he went the Marshawn Lynch route with his frustration we might have had a chance locker room wise.

Unfortunately things look bad between Kyrie and Stevens. I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to flex his free agency power by trying to get Stevens fired and I honestly don't know how to feel about that. I don't think their are many coaches in the league who are better than Stevens and Kyrie isn't winning anything by himself as we have already seen.

Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2019, 07:46:31 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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healthy bigs killed us toomany times....Al was hurt or hobbled or worn out ...Baynes had something wrong all year it seemed.

Danny did not improve the team when Raps, Philly and Bucks bought in the Army to help ....Danny did nothing

Poor Chenistry , bad coaching , and Kyrie failing as leader killed us.

Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2019, 08:49:39 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Some fans here just can't let go and see the obvious.

Irving is a complete clash of style with the way the roster is constructed. His ball-domination greatly limited Hayward, Tatum and Brown (though Jaylen made the best of it that he could). Irving is a disaster in the locker room. He is moody, unpredictable, greatly self-important and critical of his teammates. He has a need to voice whatever thoughts are going through his head at any given moment. He played that Milwaukee series like he couldn't wait to get the season over with - he did not care and he is much too erratic emotionally to depend on long-term. I know all about the need of a superstar to win titles, but Irving is not the answer.

Build around the young core. We have an all-star trio of Tatum, Brown and Hayward. Tatum and Hayward will improve greatly if the offense gets back to more ball movement. We will need some additions - a playmaking point guard, a knock-down shooter and an athletic post. We need team unity and guys playing for each other.
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Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2019, 09:02:43 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Some fans here just can't let go and see the obvious.

Irving is a complete clash of style with the way the roster is constructed. His ball-domination greatly limited Hayward, Tatum and Brown (though Jaylen made the best of it that he could). Irving is a disaster in the locker room. He is moody, unpredictable, greatly self-important and critical of his teammates. He has a need to voice whatever thoughts are going through his head at any given moment. He played that Milwaukee series like he couldn't wait to get the season over with - he did not care and he is much too erratic emotionally to depend on long-term. I know all about the need of a superstar to win titles, but Irving is not the answer.

Build around the young core. We have an all-star trio of Tatum, Brown and Hayward. Tatum and Hayward will improve greatly if the offense gets back to more ball movement. We will need some additions - a playmaking point guard, a knock-down shooter and an athletic post. We need team unity and guys playing for each other.

I would personally rather have AD, Kyrie, Brown, and Hayward...but I guess that's just me. And I literally just explained like four posts above this one, but if it is a complete failure and AD leaves in FA, you can just trade Kyrie for a Tatum-like return and end up with essentially the same trio you listed in your post...and that is a worst-case scenario. The best case scenario is we trot out the best roster in the NBA and win the championship. The ceiling is just so much greater in this scenario, while they both have a similar floor.

Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2019, 09:13:25 PM »

Online RPGenerate

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Some fans here just can't let go and see the obvious.

Irving is a complete clash of style with the way the roster is constructed. His ball-domination greatly limited Hayward, Tatum and Brown (though Jaylen made the best of it that he could). Irving is a disaster in the locker room. He is moody, unpredictable, greatly self-important and critical of his teammates. He has a need to voice whatever thoughts are going through his head at any given moment. He played that Milwaukee series like he couldn't wait to get the season over with - he did not care and he is much too erratic emotionally to depend on long-term. I know all about the need of a superstar to win titles, but Irving is not the answer.

Build around the young core. We have an all-star trio of Tatum, Brown and Hayward. Tatum and Hayward will improve greatly if the offense gets back to more ball movement. We will need some additions - a playmaking point guard, a knock-down shooter and an athletic post. We need team unity and guys playing for each other.
Oh, I'm soooo sorry that we're simply not as intelligent as you are, to "see the obvious". What a joke. Get off of your high horse. But sure, continue on in the delusion that everything was Kyrie's fault. It's funny how you talk about ball movement, yet Tatum and Brown are bad passers that consistently make selfish decisions on the court. This team won't be going anywhere if those two are our best players.
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Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2019, 09:29:10 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Some fans here just can't let go and see the obvious.

Irving is a complete clash of style with the way the roster is constructed. His ball-domination greatly limited Hayward, Tatum and Brown (though Jaylen made the best of it that he could). Irving is a disaster in the locker room. He is moody, unpredictable, greatly self-important and critical of his teammates. He has a need to voice whatever thoughts are going through his head at any given moment. He played that Milwaukee series like he couldn't wait to get the season over with - he did not care and he is much too erratic emotionally to depend on long-term. I know all about the need of a superstar to win titles, but Irving is not the answer.

Build around the young core. We have an all-star trio of Tatum, Brown and Hayward. Tatum and Hayward will improve greatly if the offense gets back to more ball movement. We will need some additions - a playmaking point guard, a knock-down shooter and an athletic post. We need team unity and guys playing for each other.

I would personally rather have AD, Kyrie, Brown, and Hayward...but I guess that's just me. And I literally just explained like four posts above this one, but if it is a complete failure and AD leaves in FA, you can just trade Kyrie for a Tatum-like return and end up with essentially the same trio you listed in your post...and that is a worst-case scenario. The best case scenario is we trot out the best roster in the NBA and win the championship. The ceiling is just so much greater in this scenario, while they both have a similar floor.

I understand your reasoning and you may be right. But I believe in the trio I posted and they all want to be here and have already shown they mesh beautifully. It is not automatic that we will trade down the road and get the same quality back that we already have. I just think that Tatum and Brown are special talents who will flourish in a system more suited to their playing styles. I think Tatum suffered the brunt of the damage from the stagnant offense and unhappy in the locker room this season.

As for you RP, your apology is accepted.
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Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2019, 10:45:19 PM »

Offline sirnastee

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The main point is: no matter how you feel about Kyrie, we need to sign him for asset purposes.  We can't lose him for nothing.  I just hope people will stop saying let him go because it will improve the team.  It may help chemistry wise, but the future ceiling of the team will immediately plummet and we will be losing our biggest asset.  We can always trade him later if we need to, but losing him for nothing from an asset perspective is like giving away a few first round picks for nothing. 

Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2019, 12:13:45 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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The main point is: no matter how you feel about Kyrie, we need to sign him for asset purposes.  We can't lose him for nothing.  I just hope people will stop saying let him go because it will improve the team.  It may help chemistry wise, but the future ceiling of the team will immediately plummet and we will be losing our biggest asset.  We can always trade him later if we need to, but losing him for nothing from an asset perspective is like giving away a few first round picks for nothing.

point taken
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Re: It's time to have some perspective
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2019, 11:02:05 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Some fans here just can't let go and see the obvious.

Irving is a complete clash of style with the way the roster is constructed. His ball-domination greatly limited Hayward, Tatum and Brown (though Jaylen made the best of it that he could). Irving is a disaster in the locker room. He is moody, unpredictable, greatly self-important and critical of his teammates. He has a need to voice whatever thoughts are going through his head at any given moment. He played that Milwaukee series like he couldn't wait to get the season over with - he did not care and he is much too erratic emotionally to depend on long-term. I know all about the need of a superstar to win titles, but Irving is not the answer.

Build around the young core. We have an all-star trio of Tatum, Brown and Hayward. Tatum and Hayward will improve greatly if the offense gets back to more ball movement. We will need some additions - a playmaking point guard, a knock-down shooter and an athletic post. We need team unity and guys playing for each other.

I thought about this in the event that Kyrie walks as that's obviously our default position. On paper I think those 3 should mesh well together. Gordon should be a fun guy for people to play with because he's a pass first player who is unselfish. But here's my question - who's the alpha? It's clear that there was a lot of resentment towards Gordon from the young guys. They didn't really respect Kyrie, why would they respect Gordon? I have no evidence of this but I don't think they think Gordon was worth $30m and to be fair this season he wasn't. What would be the pecking order and who's the alpha?
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