Jazz ban 2nd fan who called Westbrook "boy"

[Ogaju]

Wait, did you just get offended because I assumed your gender online?  How fitting!

Anyway, your statement that cops always call black people boy is hyperbole trending towards absurdity. It might be like that in the movies, but this isn’t a widespread thing as you’re trying to make it out to be.

But sure, go ahead and fight the good fight by continuing to divide us in every way possible. Tell me how I’m supposed to feel about being insulted compared to someone else.

The path forward is actually acting like we’re all equal.

I wasn't offended that you called me a man, I have been called worse and I don't assume everyone knows I am a woman because there is no picture. I have been called man/dude on here many times. If you were trying to offend me, you failed. I was only sending back your condescending vibes! So, if it fit, you must have made alterations! 

Find ONE instance where I said police always do it (as in every time), I'll wait...

Right, I'M the one dividing people, that is truly hilarious.

lol Shakity... where have you been?

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Wait, did you just get offended because I assumed your gender online?  How fitting!

Anyway, your statement that cops always call black people boy is hyperbole trending towards absurdity. It might be like that in the movies, but this isn’t a widespread thing as you’re trying to make it out to be.

But sure, go ahead and fight the good fight by continuing to divide us in every way possible. Tell me how I’m supposed to feel about being insulted compared to someone else.

The path forward is actually acting like we’re all equal.

I wasn't offended that you called me a man, I have been called worse and I don't assume everyone knows I am a woman because there is no picture. I have been called man/dude on here many times. If you were trying to offend me, you failed. I was only sending back your condescending vibes! So, if it fit, you must have made alterations! 

Find ONE instance where I said police always do it (as in every time), I'll wait...

Right, I'M the one dividing people, that is truly hilarious.

lol Shakity... where have you been?

you know I have been mostly lurking for a while now, I comment here and there. I think I could be up to at least 2 posts a day recently. I like to jump into the water every now and then.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Wait, did you just get offended because I assumed your gender online?  How fitting!

Anyway, your statement that cops always call black people boy is hyperbole trending towards absurdity. It might be like that in the movies, but this isn’t a widespread thing as you’re trying to make it out to be.

But sure, go ahead and fight the good fight by continuing to divide us in every way possible. Tell me how I’m supposed to feel about being insulted compared to someone else.

The path forward is actually acting like we’re all equal.

I wasn't offended that you called me a man, I have been called worse and I don't assume everyone knows I am a woman because there is no picture. I have been called man/dude on here many times. If you were trying to offend me, you failed. I was only sending back your condescending vibes! So, if it fit, you must have made alterations! 

Find ONE instance where I said police always do it (as in every time), I'll wait...

Right, I'M the one dividing people, that is truly hilarious.

Here’s two, just tonight.

Another problem is people acting like [calling black men boy] is past behavior. Police officers, as one example, do it all the time. Of course people who aren't affected think these things are 'history' because it doesn't hit home.

Something else I find stupid, how police always call black men boys, but always say boys are grown men, at least 4 years on average, older than their actual age.

Yes, because you obviously cant see I don't mean always as in EVERY encounter. If I meant every time, I would have said that. How stupid would I be to mean "always" as in "every instance" when I haven't been around during each case? No, your point is to change the discussion because your initial argument is lacking. Of course this is just my opinion, I don't need you to agree with me because I definitely don't agree with you.

[Silky]

Wow censorship

I suppose banning people for racist taunts is censorship, sure.

you don't think it's a slippery slope when the word boy is considered a racial slur?

If a black women called westbrook "boy," would she have also been banned?


Or was it determined the fan was racist because he was a straight white male with a southern accent?

I’m going to assume you don’t know the history. There is a long, long history of white people, both men and women, calling grown black men “boy” to demean them and them down to size.

But even if you don’t know the history, you have to consider all of what happened here.  The man was calling Westbrook “boy”, Westbrook told him to stop, the man continued.

He was deliberately provoking Westbrook. This wasn’t accidental or a fan who got surprised. He was trying to get under W’s skin.

To be honest, I’m pretty sure this fan knew what he was doing, what it expresses.  But even if you took race out of it, it would be pretty provocative. If you’re a man, I assume somebody doing that to you would make your blood rise.  Add race to it, and at some point the teams have to draw a line.

What if he said son instead of boy eith the same tone?

Does that get handled the same?

And if you are paying hundreds of dollars to support your team is it not ok to get engaged? To try and be a part of the win? Or should the fans act like golf fans.

And I wonder what would happen if someone in NYK called Hayward privileged? Or if they called him a cracker?

What about boogie cousins. Boogie is an south african racist slur for for black people? Should that be stopped?

Again, you are speculating that this man does not know the history of the word boy. I submit it’s pretty likely he does. I grew up in Worcester, and I knew from tv not to call a black man “boy”.  You certainly don’t know he’s innocent of that fact.  I hope you at least agree if he did know that it’s very much not ok.

Beyond that – it was clearly meant to be insulting and provoking. The fan got right in the player’s face and ignored a warning to stop. He was baiting him.

I don’t care if he paid thousands for that seat. If he’s injecting himself into the game like that he can be told to leave. I don’t want that when I come to the game and there’s a long line of people behind him who know how to behave like grownups who can take the seat from him.

no, I am not speculating the history of how that word had been used in some instances in the past.

But what we know for certain is that:

1) the man was trying to incite Westbrook to get him off his game
2) Yeah, calling a man a boy is always going to get under an Alpha types skin, no matter the color
3) fans wanting to be a part of the action has ALWAYS been a integral part of being a fan, it what makes a fan a fan.

we do not know for certainty that this was meant as a racial slur, as this term hasn't been used racially for a long time in relation to everyday vernacular, and instead has become an insult on ones manhood as opposed to ones race.


And I am only showing concern over the precedent that it sets, because in this day and age of sensitivity and political correctness (which to a certain sense I 100% agree with) it can very quickly get out of hand.

And I would argue that tone has as much to do with how something is interpreted than anything. If I called Westbrook "darlin" or "Princess" or "Little Lady" would I be banned as well?

If I offered him a banana Popsicle;e would I be banned?

What if I ate Fried Chicken courtside pregame and offered him some out of complete sincerity, would that be racist?

again I want it know that I am not trying to come off as a racist, merely trying to make a point that I think if the league teams are starting down this road that they are going to have to come up with a more strict set of rules/guidelines that govern both player and fan acions during the game....and perhaps stop serving booze, or put bustops around the player benches with music piped into them so that the interactions between player and fan are limited, because as long as you have 19000 people cheering for the home team the opposing team will always be villainized....its a mob mentality.

you are not doing a very good job of 'not trying to come off as racist' you just hit the trifecta of racism. I wonder how you would do if you were really trying.

Those points/questions I posed were purposfully edgy/insensitive because I want to point out that many thungs can be construed in a racist manner.

So are those bannable offenses?

[Ogaju]

in the    context that you have posted them here, YES!!!

[Ogaju]

Wait, did you just get offended because I assumed your gender online?  How fitting!

Anyway, your statement that cops always call black people boy is hyperbole trending towards absurdity. It might be like that in the movies, but this isn’t a widespread thing as you’re trying to make it out to be.

But sure, go ahead and fight the good fight by continuing to divide us in every way possible. Tell me how I’m supposed to feel about being insulted compared to someone else.

The path forward is actually acting like we’re all equal.

I wasn't offended that you called me a man, I have been called worse and I don't assume everyone knows I am a woman because there is no picture. I have been called man/dude on here many times. If you were trying to offend me, you failed. I was only sending back your condescending vibes! So, if it fit, you must have made alterations! 

Find ONE instance where I said police always do it (as in every time), I'll wait...

Right, I'M the one dividing people, that is truly hilarious.

lol Shakity... where have you been?

you know I have been mostly lurking for a while now, I comment here and there. I think I could be up to at least 2 posts a day recently. I like to jump into the water every now and then.

you should post more..the board benefits from your insightful posts...I miss the days of the old game chat room. That was a lot of fun.

[smokeablount]

Wait, did you just get offended because I assumed your gender online?  How fitting!

Anyway, your statement that cops always call black people boy is hyperbole trending towards absurdity. It might be like that in the movies, but this isn’t a widespread thing as you’re trying to make it out to be.

But sure, go ahead and fight the good fight by continuing to divide us in every way possible. Tell me how I’m supposed to feel about being insulted compared to someone else.

The path forward is actually acting like we’re all equal.

I wasn't offended that you called me a man, I have been called worse and I don't assume everyone knows I am a woman because there is no picture. I have been called man/dude on here many times. If you were trying to offend me, you failed. I was only sending back your condescending vibes! So, if it fit, you must have made alterations! 

Find ONE instance where I said police always do it (as in every time), I'll wait...

Right, I'M the one dividing people, that is truly hilarious.

Here’s two, just tonight.

Another problem is people acting like [calling black men boy] is past behavior. Police officers, as one example, do it all the time. Of course people who aren't affected think these things are 'history' because it doesn't hit home.

Something else I find stupid, how police always call black men boys, but always say boys are grown men, at least 4 years on average, older than their actual age.

Yes, because you obviously cant see I don't mean always as in EVERY encounter. If I meant every time, I would have said that. How stupid would I be to mean "always" as in "every instance" when I haven't been around during each case? No, your point is to change the discussion because your initial argument is lacking. Of course this is just my opinion, I don't need you to agree with me because I definitely don't agree with you.

Then you messed up using always, because it means every time. I don’t have a dog in this fight but it’s not his fault he took the word to mean what it clearly means.

[Erik]

Wait, did you just get offended because I assumed your gender online?  How fitting!

Anyway, your statement that cops always call black people boy is hyperbole trending towards absurdity. It might be like that in the movies, but this isn’t a widespread thing as you’re trying to make it out to be.

But sure, go ahead and fight the good fight by continuing to divide us in every way possible. Tell me how I’m supposed to feel about being insulted compared to someone else.

The path forward is actually acting like we’re all equal.

I wasn't offended that you called me a man, I have been called worse and I don't assume everyone knows I am a woman because there is no picture. I have been called man/dude on here many times. If you were trying to offend me, you failed. I was only sending back your condescending vibes! So, if it fit, you must have made alterations! 

Find ONE instance where I said police always do it (as in every time), I'll wait...

Right, I'M the one dividing people, that is truly hilarious.

Here’s two, just tonight.

Another problem is people acting like [calling black men boy] is past behavior. Police officers, as one example, do it all the time. Of course people who aren't affected think these things are 'history' because it doesn't hit home.

Something else I find stupid, how police always call black men boys, but always say boys are grown men, at least 4 years on average, older than their actual age.

Yes, because you obviously cant see I don't mean always as in EVERY encounter. If I meant every time, I would have said that. How stupid would I be to mean "always" as in "every instance" when I haven't been around during each case? No, your point is to change the discussion because your initial argument is lacking. Of course this is just my opinion, I don't need you to agree with me because I definitely don't agree with you.

Believe me, I know what hyperbole is. I use it all the time  The issue that I have is that you’re using hyperbole to make this into a widespread problem. It’s not.

As far as you saying that I don’t have a leg to stand on, it’s often difficult to have your entire world questioned. I often start from 0 and rethink major things to see if I can arrive at a different perspective.

Trying to define who should be offended by what requires a great deal of hubris. I’ve told lots of black people throughout my life to not call me boy because it’s offensive as hell. I don’t need to be a black person or any other intersectional victim amalgamation to understand that it’s a word to demean someone as inferior, dating back to “way before American slavery.” You don’t need to check any boxes to be offended by it. It’s just an offensive word, period. By saying that blacks can call whites “boy” but not vice versa, you’re dividing people using a line that doesn’t even make any sense.

[wiley]

Wait, did you just get offended because I assumed your gender online?  How fitting!

Anyway, your statement that cops always call black people boy is hyperbole trending towards absurdity. It might be like that in the movies, but this isn’t a widespread thing as you’re trying to make it out to be.

But sure, go ahead and fight the good fight by continuing to divide us in every way possible. Tell me how I’m supposed to feel about being insulted compared to someone else.

The path forward is actually acting like we’re all equal.

I wasn't offended that you called me a man, I have been called worse and I don't assume everyone knows I am a woman because there is no picture. I have been called man/dude on here many times. If you were trying to offend me, you failed. I was only sending back your condescending vibes! So, if it fit, you must have made alterations! 

Find ONE instance where I said police always do it (as in every time), I'll wait...

Right, I'M the one dividing people, that is truly hilarious.

Here’s two, just tonight.

Another problem is people acting like [calling black men boy] is past behavior. Police officers, as one example, do it all the time. Of course people who aren't affected think these things are 'history' because it doesn't hit home.

Something else I find stupid, how police always call black men boys, but always say boys are grown men, at least 4 years on average, older than their actual age.

Yes, because you obviously cant see I don't mean always as in EVERY encounter. If I meant every time, I would have said that. How stupid would I be to mean "always" as in "every instance" when I haven't been around during each case? No, your point is to change the discussion because your initial argument is lacking. Of course this is just my opinion, I don't need you to agree with me because I definitely don't agree with you.

Then you messed up using always, because it means every time. I don’t have a dog in this fight but it’s not his fault he took the word to mean what it clearly means.

No, she didn't mess up.  "I'm always forgetting my keys."  This is a common usage to mean I forget my keys far more often than is ideal. 

Same for phrases like: I always make too much pasta.  You're always late.  You always leave the lights on.  You never say thank you.  Etc. etc.

To take what she said as every time/every instance is to be willfully obtuse, insincere, or to not understand English grammar.   

[nickagneta]

Back on subject please. This is not a thread on English grammar.

[Ogaju]

Wait, did you just get offended because I assumed your gender online?  How fitting!

Anyway, your statement that cops always call black people boy is hyperbole trending towards absurdity. It might be like that in the movies, but this isn’t a widespread thing as you’re trying to make it out to be.

But sure, go ahead and fight the good fight by continuing to divide us in every way possible. Tell me how I’m supposed to feel about being insulted compared to someone else.

The path forward is actually acting like we’re all equal.

I wasn't offended that you called me a man, I have been called worse and I don't assume everyone knows I am a woman because there is no picture. I have been called man/dude on here many times. If you were trying to offend me, you failed. I was only sending back your condescending vibes! So, if it fit, you must have made alterations! 

Find ONE instance where I said police always do it (as in every time), I'll wait...

Right, I'M the one dividing people, that is truly hilarious.

Here’s two, just tonight.

Another problem is people acting like [calling black men boy] is past behavior. Police officers, as one example, do it all the time. Of course people who aren't affected think these things are 'history' because it doesn't hit home.

Something else I find stupid, how police always call black men boys, but always say boys are grown men, at least 4 years on average, older than their actual age.

Yes, because you obviously cant see I don't mean always as in EVERY encounter. If I meant every time, I would have said that. How stupid would I be to mean "always" as in "every instance" when I haven't been around during each case? No, your point is to change the discussion because your initial argument is lacking. Of course this is just my opinion, I don't need you to agree with me because I definitely don't agree with you.

Believe me, I know what hyperbole is. I use it all the time  The issue that I have is that you’re using hyperbole to make this into a widespread problem. It’s not.

As far as you saying that I don’t have a leg to stand on, it’s often difficult to have your entire world questioned. I often start from 0 and rethink major things to see if I can arrive at a different perspective.

Trying to define who should be offended by what requires a great deal of hubris. I’ve told lots of black people throughout my life to not call me boy because it’s offensive as hell. I don’t need to be a black person or any other intersectional victim amalgamation to understand that it’s a word to demean someone as inferior, dating back to “way before American slavery.” You don’t need to check any boxes to be offended by it. It’s just an offensive word, period. By saying that blacks can call whites “boy” but not vice versa, you’re dividing people using a line that doesn’t even make any sense.

Erik, your terms of reference on the racial history of America is different from that of people who are actually impacted by that history. You said you are a first generation american, if that is so you just might not have the same sense of the impact of slavery, Jim Crow, and institutional racism as the descendants of slaves. You are absolutely entitled to your views, but not your own facts. It is condescending for anyone to say it is time to move on from slavery when the vestiges of the dastardly evil rares its ugly head over and over again. Some from people who will not educate themselves sufficiently on the subject before telling people to move on. 

[Erik]

I feel like we’re going in circles here. I’m not saying to move on from slavery because it’s important to remember our mistakes, but more in general to move away from intersectionality of slicing and dicing every single difference between us to build your own predefined personal checklist.

There are some pejoratives that solely describe black people, hispanic people, Asian people, etc which if used could draw an easy conclusion that the person has some form of prejudice toward that group. I don’t personally believe that “boy” is solely offensive to blacks or has significant extra weight. It’s a universally offensive word. I noted in a prior post that I doubt there was much positive dialog between slaves and slaveowners. Are we seriously going to strike all general insults hurled at slaves as only offensive or more offensive to blacks? If so, who gets to decide what that comprehensive list is and what weight each person is allowed to be offended?

The reason I say all of this is because as a non black, non white man, be prepared for me to react extremely harshly if anyone calls me a “boy.” This isn’t just a black thing, and I refuse to be told that my own personal beliefs that I am allowed to hold and what offends me.

Having said that, in the case of this guy, he’s probably prejudiced toward blacks. I am just not 100% sure as I would be if he used a more specific pejorative, for example.

Hope this helps. I’m not trying to diminish the struggles of black people at all. I’m just saying that we’re already so divided that perhaps we should be careful about further divisions that don’t make a lot of sense.

[Silky]

I feel like we’re going in circles here. I’m not saying to move on from slavery because it’s important to remember our mistakes, but more in general to move away from intersectionality of slicing and dicing every single difference between us to build your own predefined personal checklist.

There are some pejoratives that solely describe black people, hispanic people, Asian people, etc which if used could draw an easy conclusion that the person has some form of prejudice toward that group. I don’t personally believe that “boy” is solely offensive to blacks or has significant extra weight. It’s a universally offensive word. I noted in a prior post that I doubt there was much positive dialog between slaves and slaveowners. Are we seriously going to strike all general insults hurled at slaves as only offensive or more offensive to blacks? If so, who gets to decide what that comprehensive list is and what weight each person is allowed to be offended?

The reason I say all of this is because as a non black, non white man, be prepared for me to react extremely harshly if anyone calls me a “boy.” This isn’t just a black thing, and I refuse to be told that my own personal beliefs that I am allowed to hold and what offends me.

Having said that, in the case of this guy, he’s probably prejudiced toward blacks. I am just not 100% sure as I would be if he used a more specific pejorative, for example.

Hope this helps. I’m not trying to diminish the struggles of black people at all. I’m just saying that we’re already so divided that perhaps we should be careful about further divisions that don’t make a lot of sense.

Well said. Have a tp

[nickagneta]

I feel like we’re going in circles here. I’m not saying to move on from slavery because it’s important to remember our mistakes, but more in general to move away from intersectionality of slicing and dicing every single difference between us to build your own predefined personal checklist.

There are some pejoratives that solely describe black people, hispanic people, Asian people, etc which if used could draw an easy conclusion that the person has some form of prejudice toward that group. I don’t personally believe that “boy” is solely offensive to blacks or has significant extra weight. It’s a universally offensive word. I noted in a prior post that I doubt there was much positive dialog between slaves and slaveowners. Are we seriously going to strike all general insults hurled at slaves as only offensive or more offensive to blacks? If so, who gets to decide what that comprehensive list is and what weight each person is allowed to be offended?

The reason I say all of this is because as a non black, non white man, be prepared for me to react extremely harshly if anyone calls me a “boy.” This isn’t just a black thing, and I refuse to be told that my own personal beliefs that I am allowed to hold and what offends me.

Having said that, in the case of this guy, he’s probably prejudiced toward blacks. I am just not 100% sure as I would be if he used a more specific pejorative, for example.

Hope this helps. I’m not trying to diminish the struggles of black people at all. I’m just saying that we’re already so divided that perhaps we should be careful about further divisions that don’t make a lot of sense.

Let me help you out. If a white person is talking to a black man and uses the term "boy" as a way of addressing that black man, something like this for instance:

"You listening to me, boy?"
"Boy, get outta my way!"

Or some version of this, then "boy" is a racial epithet.

Yes, boy is a demeaning term when referencing an adult man of any color but when used specifically to address a black male, by a white person, in America, in the context I described, it's a racial slur.

[Big333223]

The fines and bans levied by the NBA and Utah Jazz all seem very reasonable in this situation, to me.

This thread seems... less so.