(Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate

[fairweatherfan]

Good points.  I was just saying there was some strengths with Rondo as well but I do love Lee and Bradley overall.  They are a great defensive combo and we don't give up any size.

@CourtneyLee2211
Eye is coo! Not sure how it want a and1 but oh well!Highlight of the night, JRU came to me and @avery_bradley and ask us to cool the Defense


Jru Holiday asked them both to relax on defense last night haha.

Gah, that Twitter phrasing hurts my brain, but I like that we're frustrating teams to the point they're asking us to stop.  Reminds me of Jameer against Bradley last year, except Jrue is a lot quicker and more athletic than Jameer.

[connor]

I'm not of the mind that we are better withut Rondo. His level of talent will make any team better, end of. But I do think a lot of good can come from this team getting some experience playing without him. Rondo became too much of our offensive identity. Everything ran through him, he was looking for the assist on every possession, there wasn't enough ball movement. Without him we've seen a more up tempo approach since they don't just look to get the ball to Rondo, we are pushing the ball more off of defensive rebounds and moving it more in our half court offense. If Rondo can bring his flair for passing the ball and incorporate that into this style of play I think we would be a better team (with him on the court and when he is off).

We should all petition the league to start counting hocket assists as 1/2 an assist and maybe Rondo will be more willing to move the ball earlier in possessions rather than waiting until the end.

I expected us to go on a run like this when Rondo was playing. This team has too much veteran experience and talent to not put together a good few streaks. So I don't see our current streak as being indicative of us being better without Rondo but I'm hoping that we can use this experience to play better when he eventually comes back next year.

[eugen]

Our offense was dying for better outside shooting for much of this year. Bottom third of the league at 33%, 37% would be top 10.

That increase alone is 2 points per game more, more when you factor we're taking 2 more per game. That's the majority of our offensive improvement right there, better 3 point shooting and more of it.

This is not the main thing. The main thing is the score. With Rondo, the team was under .500 score, fighting for the 8-spot. Without Rondo, the team is 12-4 and clearly the better team in all components. These are facts.

[Snakehead]

Good points.  I was just saying there was some strengths with Rondo as well but I do love Lee and Bradley overall.  They are a great defensive combo and we don't give up any size.

@CourtneyLee2211
Eye is coo! Not sure how it want a and1 but oh well!Highlight of the night, JRU came to me and @avery_bradley and ask us to cool the Defense


Jru Holiday asked them both to relax on defense last night haha.

Gah, that Twitter phrasing hurts my brain, but I like that we're frustrating teams to the point they're asking us to stop.  Reminds me of Jameer against Bradley last year, except Jrue is a lot quicker and more athletic than Jameer.

Yeah I thought the same thing, I've heard it from a few subpar ball handlers but I love hearing from a PG who I think is actually really good.

I love the pride that they take in it.

[Snakehead]

Our offense was dying for better outside shooting for much of this year. Bottom third of the league at 33%, 37% would be top 10.

That increase alone is 2 points per game more, more when you factor we're taking 2 more per game. That's the majority of our offensive improvement right there, better 3 point shooting and more of it.

This is not the main thing. The main thing is the score. With Rondo, the team was under .500 score, fighting for the 8-spot. Without Rondo, the team is 12-4 and clearly the better team in all components. These are facts.

No they are not.

Avery Bradley's return has come with a huge improvement in our defense.  Other players have just started playing better.  Look at Jeff Green especially. There are many factors.

We are winning because of our defense right now.

Are there things to take form this streak going forward and how Rondo should integrate into the team?  Yes.  But how some people act like Rondo was literally a net negative for this team is unbelievable.

[furball]

How come no one on here ever points out the Celtics record with and with out Jared Sullinger?  It's only one game different then their record with and without Rondo but no one blames Sully for the Celtics problems.  I am not saying he was a problem I'm just pointing out how the argument against Rondo works both ways.  If you can make the argument based on record for Rondo then the Celtics really need to trade Sully as soon as he's healthy because he's been holding them back. 

[Lightskinsmurf]

Good points.  I was just saying there was some strengths with Rondo as well but I do love Lee and Bradley overall.  They are a great defensive combo and we don't give up any size.

@CourtneyLee2211
Eye is coo! Not sure how it want a and1 but oh well!Highlight of the night, JRU came to me and @avery_bradley and ask us to cool the Defense


Jru Holiday asked them both to relax on defense last night haha.

Gah, that Twitter phrasing hurts my brain, but I like that we're frustrating teams to the point they're asking us to stop.  Reminds me of Jameer against Bradley last year, except Jrue is a lot quicker and more athletic than Jameer.

How does it hurt your brain?

[Snakehead]

Good points.  I was just saying there was some strengths with Rondo as well but I do love Lee and Bradley overall.  They are a great defensive combo and we don't give up any size.

@CourtneyLee2211
Eye is coo! Not sure how it want a and1 but oh well!Highlight of the night, JRU came to me and @avery_bradley and ask us to cool the Defense


Jru Holiday asked them both to relax on defense last night haha.

Gah, that Twitter phrasing hurts my brain, but I like that we're frustrating teams to the point they're asking us to stop.  Reminds me of Jameer against Bradley last year, except Jrue is a lot quicker and more athletic than Jameer.

How does it hurt your brain?

Probably the spelling and grammar.

[connor]

How come no one on here ever points out the Celtics record with and with out Jared Sullinger?  It's only one game different then their record with and without Rondo but no one blames Sully for the Celtics problems.  I am not saying he was a problem I'm just pointing out how the argument against Rondo works both ways.  If you can make the argument based on record for Rondo then the Celtics really need to trade Sully as soon as he's healthy because he's been holding them back.

TP

Great argument. Never even thought about it that way.

[pearljammer10]

With Rondo 20-23, without Rondo 12-4. This was told yesterday at NBA Game Time on TNT. Mention that Cs know move better the ball ad get better % on FG

Why do you need TNT to come up with this little gem? We kinda discuss this just about every hour on CelticsBlog.

Are jealous about TNT? Instead of doing that, I strongly suggest you to analyze the statistics, not making bla bla bla. Do not destroy topics please.

This topic has already been destroyed by the fact that it is in fact brought up about every hour and is still in fact ridiculous to think we are better without Rondo.

[Rondo2287]

Our offense was dying for better outside shooting for much of this year. Bottom third of the league at 33%, 37% would be top 10.

That increase alone is 2 points per game more, more when you factor we're taking 2 more per game. That's the majority of our offensive improvement right there, better 3 point shooting and more of it.

This is not the main thing. The main thing is the score. With Rondo, the team was under .500 score, fighting for the 8-spot. Without Rondo, the team is 12-4 and clearly the better team in all components. These are facts.

Question, if a company releases bad earning results but the stock goes up, would you say the stock went up becuase of the bad earnings results or would you try and look deeper and see if there was another reason?

[Snakehead]

How come no one on here ever points out the Celtics record with and with out Jared Sullinger?  It's only one game different then their record with and without Rondo but no one blames Sully for the Celtics problems.  I am not saying he was a problem I'm just pointing out how the argument against Rondo works both ways.  If you can make the argument based on record for Rondo then the Celtics really need to trade Sully as soon as he's healthy because he's been holding them back.

Great point.

I was saying the same thing about people not considering how much better we were with Bradley on defense.

There has been too much turmoil this season to draw clear cut statements like this.

[BballTim]

Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.

Keep focused here...These are important facts showning the team work is much better now without him. Gettin better % on 2 ponits or 3 points shots means that the ball movement and the circulation are better.

  It means that the team was slumping in Dec/Jan because players like PP and Jet and Rondo were playing through Rondo. Our best shooting month is still November.

[Redz]

How come no one on here ever points out the Celtics record with and with out Jared Sullinger?  It's only one game different then their record with and without Rondo but no one blames Sully for the Celtics problems.  I am not saying he was a problem I'm just pointing out how the argument against Rondo works both ways.  If you can make the argument based on record for Rondo then the Celtics really need to trade Sully as soon as he's healthy because he's been holding them back.

I prefer to blame Barbosa and credit Shavlik Randolph for our undefeated record since he arrived.

[Yogi]

Guys we are 100% without KG!!!!!!!!! That old fool is just trying to pad his stats and holding us back!!! Quick let's trade him for Aaron Gray and Krylo Fesenko then we would beat the Heat with 2 7 footers!