(Merged) Celtics better with/without Rondo debate

[kozlodoev]

And this coincided more with Avery Bradley coming back than Rondo being injured.

Maybe, but on the balance, a Bradley + Lee backcourt is miles ahead in both size and defensive intensity than a Rondo + Bradley backcourt. Make of this what you will.

[mkogav]

With Rondo 20-23, without Rondo 12-4. This was told yesterday at NBA Game Time on TNT. Mention that Cs know move better the ball ad get better % on FG

Yawn.

We are talking about a very veteran team with two HOFers and a lot of pride. This is not really a surprise.

I expect had Rondo not torn his ACL, the Cs would have went on a similar run at some point.

The real test for life-without-Rondo is in the playoff. I expect that they will really struggle to score against any good defensive team.

Mk

[eugen]

Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.

Keep focused here...These are important facts showning the team work is much better now without him. Gettin better % on 2 ponits or 3 points shots means that the ball movement and the circulation are better.

[alley oop]

I like the movement now and I think Rondo can fit into it, why wouldn't he?

He may not get stats that make him stand out from the other points guards, and not like it. But Doc is very much partly to blame for what happened.

[Snakehead]

And this coincided more with Avery Bradley coming back than Rondo being injured.

Maybe, but on the balance, a Bradley + Lee backcourt is miles ahead in both size and defensive intensity than a Rondo + Bradley backcourt. Make of this what you will.

I wouldn't say miles at all but it is better and more fundamentally sound on defense.  Rondo and Bradley worked well together especially because Rondo could get steals off of Bradley's ball pressure but I do agree that Lee and Bradley is a better defensive backcourt and you don't have to give up size.

If you look at the team's defensive numbers with Bradley vs without it's clear what kind of impact he has had.

Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.

Keep focused here...These are important facts showning the team work is much better now without him. Gettin better % on 2 ponits or 3 points shots means that the ball movement and the circulation are better.

Hm?

I think Faf's point is the numbers aren't very different.  Those aren't big changes.

You can't just say that is why these numbers are different anyways.  Guys just could be shooting better now than they were before.  Earlier in the season Jeff Green wasn't playing as well, Lee wasn't shooting as well, etc.

[kozlodoev]

And this coincided more with Avery Bradley coming back than Rondo being injured.

Maybe, but on the balance, a Bradley + Lee backcourt is miles ahead in both size and defensive intensity than a Rondo + Bradley backcourt. Make of this what you will.

I wouldn't say miles at all but it is better and more fundamentally sound on defense.  Rondo and Bradley worked well together especially because Rondo could get steals off of Bradley's ball pressure but I do agree that Lee and Bradley is a better defensive backcourt overall and you don't have to give up size.

If you look at the team's defensive numbers with Bradley vs without it's clear what kind of impact he has had.

By "miles ahead" I really mean two things:

(1) We can have a PG-sized guard covering PGs and a SG-sized guard covering SGs.

(2) No more awkward cross-matching on offense and defense, where there's always the inherent risk you'll lose your man on the break.

[Rondo2287]

Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.

Keep focused here...These are important facts showning the team work is much better now without him. Gettin better % on 2 ponits or 3 points shots means that the ball movement and the circulation are better.

Being .6% better on 2 point shots shows that things are effectively the same with rondo as without.

[Fafnir]

Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.
Also turning it over slightly less as a team.
Our FTAs to FGAs is essentially the same
Our FT% is essentially the same.
Our pace has increased roughly 1 possession per game.

And our defense? Better right?

Our defense has been better. But it actually got better with Rondo in January and has stayed at the same level since his injury.

Our defense in February was actually a little worse than our defense in January.

Our offense however was much better in February, better than our hot offensive start in November.

[Snakehead]

And this coincided more with Avery Bradley coming back than Rondo being injured.

Maybe, but on the balance, a Bradley + Lee backcourt is miles ahead in both size and defensive intensity than a Rondo + Bradley backcourt. Make of this what you will.

I wouldn't say miles at all but it is better and more fundamentally sound on defense.  Rondo and Bradley worked well together especially because Rondo could get steals off of Bradley's ball pressure but I do agree that Lee and Bradley is a better defensive backcourt overall and you don't have to give up size.

If you look at the team's defensive numbers with Bradley vs without it's clear what kind of impact he has had.

By "miles ahead" I really mean two things:

(1) We can have a PG-sized guard covering PGs and a SG-sized guard covering SGs.

(2) No more awkward cross-matching on offense and defense, where there's always the inherent risk you'll lose your man on the break.

Good points.  I was just saying there was some strengths with Rondo as well but I do love Lee and Bradley overall.  They are a great defensive combo and we don't give up any size.

@CourtneyLee2211
Eye is coo! Not sure how it want a and1 but oh well!Highlight of the night, JRU came to me and @avery_bradley and ask us to cool the Defense


Jru Holiday asked them both to relax on defense last night haha.

[Fafnir]

Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.

Keep focused here...These are important facts showning the team work is much better now without him. Gettin better % on 2 ponits or 3 points shots means that the ball movement and the circulation are better.

Being .6% better on 2 point shots shows that things are effectively the same with rondo as without.

Yeah the biggest thing is we're hitting out 3s at a better rate and getting more of them.

Our offense was dying for better outside shooting for much of this year. Bottom third of the league at 33%, 37% would be top 10.

That increase alone is 2 points per game more, more when you factor we're taking 2 more per game. That's the majority of our offensive improvement right there, better 3 point shooting and more of it.

[eugen]

Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.

Keep focused here...These are important facts showning the team work is much better now without him. Gettin better % on 2 ponits or 3 points shots means that the ball movement and the circulation are better.

Being .6% better on 2 point shots shows that things are effectively the same with rondo as without.

6% better on 2 points shots, means you can score around 10-12 ponits more in a game ...do not forget the score 20-23 Vs 12-4

[Snakehead]

Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.

Keep focused here...These are important facts showning the team work is much better now without him. Gettin better % on 2 ponits or 3 points shots means that the ball movement and the circulation are better.

Being .6% better on 2 point shots shows that things are effectively the same with rondo as without.

6% better on 2 points shots, means you can score around 10-12 ponits more in a game ...do not forget the score 20-23 Vs 12-4

POINT 6 percent better not 6 percent.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.
Also turning it over slightly less as a team.
Our FTAs to FGAs is essentially the same
Our FT% is essentially the same.
Our pace has increased roughly 1 possession per game.

And our defense? Better right?

Our defense has been better. But it actually got better with Rondo in January and has stayed at the same level since his injury.

Our defense in February was actually a little worse than our defense in January.

Our offense however was much better in February, better than our hot offensive start in November.

In February we were using Bass as a center in quite a few games too O.o And Doc was using some of our smallest units since the start of the season.

[Fafnir]

Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.
Also turning it over slightly less as a team.
Our FTAs to FGAs is essentially the same
Our FT% is essentially the same.
Our pace has increased roughly 1 possession per game.

And our defense? Better right?

Our defense has been better. But it actually got better with Rondo in January and has stayed at the same level since his injury.

Our defense in February was actually a little worse than our defense in January.

Our offense however was much better in February, better than our hot offensive start in November.

In February we were using Bass as a center in quite a few games too O.o And Doc was using some of our smallest units since the start of the season.

Doc rarely used Bass at C even in February. Jason Collins and/or Wilcox + KG ate up the vast majority of the C minutes.

Bass would get maybe 3-5 per game with that unit, if even that.

[Rondo2287]

Since Rondo's ACL injury the C's are:

Shooting .6% better on 2 point shots
Shooting 3.5% better on 3 point shots
Taking a higher ratio of 3s to 2s.

Keep focused here...These are important facts showning the team work is much better now without him. Gettin better % on 2 ponits or 3 points shots means that the ball movement and the circulation are better.

Being .6% better on 2 point shots shows that things are effectively the same with rondo as without.

6% better on 2 points shots, means you can score around 10-12 ponits more in a game ...do not forget the score 20-23 Vs 12-4

POINT 6 percent better not 6 percent.

Yes, please consider the analytics.