Author Topic: Does our bench suck?  (Read 17833 times)

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Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2008, 03:05:36 PM »

Offline housecall

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As long as Scal is on the active roster. As long as Scal gets in the occasional game when it's not a blow out, I can never completely trust Doc's rotations.

When it comes to Doc's rotations I sometimes wonder. Is it the young players not being ready or the vets being favored?

Lets take a breath here. It IS only game 9 and in 5 of the games, i wouldn't have wanted a rookie anywhere near the floor (clev, Det, Atl, Hou, bucks)

so, doc hasent exactly had a lot of time to even do the 2-4 minutes a game for walker and pruitt im advocating. not sure we can say anything about his "trust" level. we needed those games, and thus needed our core bench.
Last night Doc made the statement of he wanted Pierce and the rest of the staters to play high minutes the first 15games of the season for a couple reasons.One is to get into season shape,two was the first 15 games are ones we need to get because other teams are working out their kinks and getting use to one another.He feels the beginning games set a tone in a way around the league.Besides not using rookies or new guys are not a part of Doc's thought process or system anyhow.

TP, to qoute carson "I did not know that"

good stuff, makes sense :)
said it in his postgame interview thanks :)

Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2008, 03:43:25 PM »

Offline thecaptain34

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But cmon guys Tony allen is a disaster and Leon Powe/BBD/House are our best players off the pine with 6 guys that cant offer the team anything.


You are aware Tony Allen is the leading scorer off the bench on a good shooting %, he gets to the line a good amount for a bench player and he is hitting his FT's at an 87% rate while having been very good on defense. He also turns the ball over less than Powe and he has the ball in his hands alot while playing 20 mpg, which is the most of anybody else off the bench. So what exactly about him sucks, please tell me because i think most Celts fans will agree with me when i say TA has been pretty good this year, even when he hasnt scored much over the last 2 games he hasnt got down and turned it over 4 or 5 times like he used to, he kept playing good D and stayed within himself.


Tony cant shoot, hes not a good ball handler, hes not a very smart basketball player..his defense is overrated considering he's always prone to making a key mistake in big situation..his slashing is out of control and you can easily take it away from him in meaningful games and  hes extremly inconsistent...and even if tony looks better so far this year that doesnt take very much.
all that being said, I still root for the guy, its just hard sometimes....is it really that hard for you to admit?

Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #62 on: November 13, 2008, 03:54:27 PM »

Offline Big_Matt34

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But cmon guys Tony allen is a disaster and Leon Powe/BBD/House are our best players off the pine with 6 guys that cant offer the team anything.


You are aware Tony Allen is the leading scorer off the bench on a good shooting %, he gets to the line a good amount for a bench player and he is hitting his FT's at an 87% rate while having been very good on defense. He also turns the ball over less than Powe and he has the ball in his hands alot while playing 20 mpg, which is the most of anybody else off the bench. So what exactly about him sucks, please tell me because i think most Celts fans will agree with me when i say TA has been pretty good this year, even when he hasnt scored much over the last 2 games he hasnt got down and turned it over 4 or 5 times like he used to, he kept playing good D and stayed within himself.


Tony cant shoot, hes not a good ball handler, hes not a very smart basketball player..his defense is overrated considering he's always prone to making a key mistake in big situation..his slashing is out of control and you can easily take it away from him in meaningful games and  hes extremly inconsistent...and even if tony looks better so far this year that doesnt take very much.
all that being said, I still root for the guy, its just hard sometimes....is it really that hard for you to admit?

Not really, its always easy for me to root for him because he plays hard and a hardnosed style. I can understand how he frustrates people, he frustrates me but to say he sucks is flat out wrong, he is not a good shooter but his ballhandling is MUCH better this year, hence why he is only turning it over 1.22 times in 20 minutes a game despite being the primary ballhandler when he is in with House. Also, his drives arent really out of control this year, he has taken some dumb, ugly layups but getting there hasnt been the problem and he has been good at setting up Powe for layups and alot of FT's. Sure he is prone to some mistakes on defense but so far this year he has minimized them and has been a force on defense bewteen man to man and forcing turnovers with his help defense.

As long as he stays under control he is a very nice weapon off the bench because he gives something that not many bench players give, the ablity to blow past anyone and draw fouls which is huge. A good sign for the rest of the season is how good of chemistry that Tony/Powe/House have shown together, theres a reason most of the season the 2nd unit has got the Celts back into the game after the starters have feel behind. So yeah i dont think TA is a star or close to it but he is a good player off the bench as long as his mind is right which it seems to be so far this year.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 04:01:23 PM by Big_Matt34 »

Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #63 on: November 13, 2008, 03:56:41 PM »

Offline crownsy

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But cmon guys Tony allen is a disaster and Leon Powe/BBD/House are our best players off the pine with 6 guys that cant offer the team anything.


You are aware Tony Allen is the leading scorer off the bench on a good shooting %, he gets to the line a good amount for a bench player and he is hitting his FT's at an 87% rate while having been very good on defense. He also turns the ball over less than Powe and he has the ball in his hands alot while playing 20 mpg, which is the most of anybody else off the bench. So what exactly about him sucks, please tell me because i think most Celts fans will agree with me when i say TA has been pretty good this year, even when he hasnt scored much over the last 2 games he hasnt got down and turned it over 4 or 5 times like he used to, he kept playing good D and stayed within himself.


Tony cant shoot, hes not a good ball handler, hes not a very smart basketball player..his defense is overrated considering he's always prone to making a key mistake in big situation..his slashing is out of control and you can easily take it away from him in meaningful games and  hes extremly inconsistent...and even if tony looks better so far this year that doesnt take very much.
all that being said, I still root for the guy, its just hard sometimes....is it really that hard for you to admit?

alot of that is persoanl opnion and not in fact based on any kind of objective anyalsis. all that being said, I'm not a TA booster, but he's been good so far this year for a bench guy. Is that really so hard for you to admit?
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2008, 04:01:50 PM »

Offline thecaptain34

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Look, I think Tony is fine in the regular season...and he's played a few good games and a few bad ones
Come playoff time he's just not trustworthy IMO and cant be on the floor in big situations, and I find it hard to believe anyone thinks differently about that...you want TA on the floor in a tight playoff game/series?

Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2008, 04:04:46 PM »

Offline Big_Matt34

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Look, I think Tony is fine in the regular season...and he's played a few good games and a few bad ones
Come playoff time he's just not trustworthy IMO and cant be on the floor in big situations, and I find it hard to believe anyone thinks differently about that...you want TA on the floor in a tight playoff game/series?

Nobody knows that yet, but i think itd be more than fair to give him this season to see how he plays as the first option off the bench for a championship level team before we say we cant trust him in the playoffs. Last year would i have trusted him? No because his injury was in his head and easily got down on himself but he seems very confident this year knowing he is going to play alot and that the rest of the team really trusts him.

IMO i think for us to win a title we need him to be at his best so ill give him the benefit of the doubt. If he starts turning the ball over alot and let it get in his head again then itll be a different story, but the Tony we have seen so far this year i have no problem playing 15 mpg in the playoffs.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 04:10:32 PM by Big_Matt34 »

Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #66 on: November 13, 2008, 04:10:23 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Look, I think Tony is fine in the regular season...and he's played a few good games and a few bad ones
Come playoff time he's just not trustworthy IMO and cant be on the floor in big situations, and I find it hard to believe anyone thinks differently about that...you want TA on the floor in a tight playoff game/series?

ask me when we get to one, im not in the habit of making snap judgments after 9 games.

but, this TA that's playing right now? sure.

TA from last year? nope.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 04:21:44 PM by crownsy »
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #67 on: November 13, 2008, 04:19:13 PM »

Offline celticmaestro

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To paraphrase Rick Pitino in Roy's sig:

The negativity round here sucks.

Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #68 on: November 13, 2008, 04:41:46 PM »

Offline youcanthandlethetruth113

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I haven't been able to watch the last few games, but reading the news accounts and box scores, our bench seems unable to do  much of anything, especially on offense.  Aside from one nice game from Tony Allen the bench has really been anemic.  Doc or Danny should consider some kind of shake up if this trend continues. I know that it sounds like sour grapes after winning 8/9, but surely you have been wondering the same thing out there, Celtic fan.

Our bench is fine - talent wise.

Production wise - we're not getting enough out of them. Specifically...

Eddie House - he's missing both uncontested and contested 17 footers and 3-balls, very frustrating

Tony Allen - had a fantastic game in Detroit (i was in attendance in the 3rd row) but hasn't been able to get to the line consistently on a nightly basis

Leon Powe - is easily our most consistent bench player

Big Baby - is still a work in progress but he's getting better at rotating and is showing good development with his jumper

I think that's where were at right now with our bench. If Eddie was hitting at a higher clip and Tony got to the line more often I don't think we'd have such an overraction to our bench's lack of production.

That's my 2 cents.
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Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #69 on: November 13, 2008, 04:59:07 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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my take on the subject...

Eddie House is a pure shooter, thats what he does. we'll take him having a cold hand as long as he can run the second offense, which he HAS been doing so far. He's missed some open threes but he's getting open three's...they'll fall eventually.

Tony Allen had an amazing night in detroit becuase paul was in EARLY foul trouble. the past few games after we haven't needed offense from tony allen we've needed defense, so he plays his role and shuts down the other teams best scorer at the end of the game.

Leon Powe can get to the line EVERY TIME if he wanted to...which is awesome for getting his defenders in foul trouble. But he's got to improve on his free throw shooting. Literally thats the only flaw.

Big Baby- nice to see the midrange jumper opening up, and its also nice to see that here in boston we can appreciate a basketball player that does the small things EX: does an amazing job boxing out and putting a body on people (thats right plural) he may not get the rebound be he's getting it for the team, very good understanding of the way the game works esspecially for a big man. if BBD can become a more efficiant shooter he good be our secret weapon off the bench. also very good defensively

Gabe Pruitt- can run the offense and has really good scoring ability. but hasn't played so doesn't matter

Bill Walker- still trying to do too much when he gets out on the floor, but to his credit he only plays for the last three minutes in blowout wins, so why not try to make the highlight reel

JR Giddens- i'm excited to see him play once he catches up on the offense. from watching him with NM he's a really good scorer, and a nasty defender.

POB- lazy and making me look bad on the board for sticking for him.

Scal- don't hate


Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2008, 05:06:28 PM »

Offline cordobes

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To paraphrase Rick Pitino in Roy's sig:

The negativity round here sucks.

I don't see much negativity, rather a lot of bipolarism. A few days ago the bench was extraordinary and was winning us the games, now it sucks.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle: it's not a top-notch bench, it doesn't have the Lakers' one quality, nor the depth of Indiana or the quality and depth of Houston. On the other hand, there are far worse benches on the league. For the regular season, this bench, including the guys who are out of the rotation, is more than enough. For the play-offs, I'm not so sure. PO basketball has a premium on consistency, heady play, experience and size, and this bench has some flaws.   

As for Bill Walker, what do people want to see now that they didn't see in the pre-season?

Quote
but, this TA that's playing right now? sure.

TA from last year? nope.

Which TA played the last 2 games?


Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2008, 05:07:23 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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The bench does not suck.



It is not a playoff ready bench.  I think there needs to be some player adjustments.

Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #72 on: November 13, 2008, 05:17:55 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The bench does not suck.



It is not a playoff ready bench.  I think there needs to be some player adjustments.
TP Wide Load you've been saying it for months. It's not a bad bench and it will do for now. We will most likely see an addition or two come playoff time.

Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #73 on: November 13, 2008, 06:21:54 PM »

Offline ManUp

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As long as Scal is on the active roster. As long as Scal gets in the occasional game when it's not a blow out, I can never completely trust Doc's rotations.

When it comes to Doc's rotations I sometimes wonder. Is it the young players not being ready or the vets being favored?

Lets take a breath here. It IS only game 9 and in 5 of the games, i wouldn't have wanted a rookie anywhere near the floor (clev, Det, Atl, Hou, bucks)

so, doc hasent exactly had a lot of time to even do the 2-4 minutes a game for walker and pruitt im advocating. not sure we can say anything about his "trust" level. we needed those games, and thus needed our core bench.

I'm not thinking just 9 games, I'm thinking as long as Doc has been coaching the Celts.

...and I'd take one of these rookies over Scal any day.
I'd take Pruitt, Walker and Giddens over Scal any day too but Doc might be sending a message their way that minutes are to be earned not given. If these guys see Scal in front of them it could motivate then to work harder at practice and hone their skills sharper.

Of course, Doc could just favor vets but he did play Leon, Baby, and Rondo extensively last year.

I came to the same conclusion when I thought about it earlier, but still. At least let Gabe get that burn he's been here for a year and from all indications he's put in the work.

As for him playing Rondo, Leon, and Powe he really didn't have much of a choice. Leon proved he deserved time by producing almost every time he was on the floor. Rondo was our only point guard and it was his job to lose from the start. Baby was one of the few big men we had last season.

I think Doc will play young guys if they show they can be productive in a real game with meaningful minutes. The problem is that its almost impossible for a guy to get those meaningful minutes and be productive.

Re: Does our bench suck?
« Reply #74 on: November 13, 2008, 07:08:19 PM »

Offline zerophase

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the bench is merely okay... i still would much rather have posey over tony allen. the problem doesn't have to do with our bench but rather the slow starts we always have.

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