REFS!

[NHHillbilly]

Jaylen is high up in the player's association. The players should go on strike until the league has the refs working for the player's association. The league doesn't care that the in season courts are a slippery hazard: they just like "the look" and the hype the courts give to the in season tournament and create more viewers. The league doesn't care that stars like Jaylen Brown spend too much time on their behinds because thugs on the other team know no way of stopping them except to foul them. The league doesn't care that sometimes after a spectacular dunk, Taum has to hold on to the rim to get down gently and avoid injury: they don't want the appearance of showboating while at the same time promoting dunk of the week and dunk contests. The league preaches respect for the game  but doesn't make the refs earn the respect. I'm sure that Chris Paul would team up with Jaylen about the refs. The players just want the refs to be consistent, fair, and protect players from injury. The league just wants to make money. If the player's association were in charge of the refs, Giannis would not get away with bulldozing everyone but never getting an offensive foul call. If the fouls were called, Giannis would stop doing that, and maybe Giannis would get hurt less often also. But the league likes the legend of the "Greek Freak" that they created: so they encourage his non-basketball strategy. I never understood why when a small guy is guarding a big one, the big one is allowed to dislodge the smaller defender with impunity. Letting big guys foul little ones is disrespect for the game. Randle just plows into people and always expects the foul call. Porzingas just shoots over little guys: to me that is a basketball play and respects the game.

[yelkao]

Jaylen is high up in the player's association. The players should go on strike until the league has the refs working for the player's association. The league doesn't care that the in season courts are a slippery hazard: they just like "the look" and the hype the courts give to the in season tournament and create more viewers. The league doesn't care that stars like Jaylen Brown spend too much time on their behinds because thugs on the other team know no way of stopping them except to foul them. The league doesn't care that sometimes after a spectacular dunk, Taum has to hold on to the rim to get down gently and avoid injury: they don't want the appearance of showboating while at the same time promoting dunk of the week and dunk contests. The league preaches respect for the game  but doesn't make the refs earn the respect. I'm sure that Chris Paul would team up with Jaylen about the refs. The players just want the refs to be consistent, fair, and protect players from injury. The league just wants to make money. If the player's association were in charge of the refs, Giannis would not get away with bulldozing everyone but never getting an offensive foul call. If the fouls were called, Giannis would stop doing that, and maybe Giannis would get hurt less often also. But the league likes the legend of the "Greek Freak" that they created: so they encourage his non-basketball strategy. I never understood why when a small guy is guarding a big one, the big one is allowed to dislodge the smaller defender with impunity. Letting big guys foul little ones is disrespect for the game. Randle just plows into people and always expects the foul call. Porzingas just shoots over little guys: to me that is a basketball play and respects the game.

[dang] bro. You know Giannis leads the
League in offensive fouls? That players barely contest shots at the rim like they used to? I think the refs are pretty bad sometimes but I’m not sure you’re barking up the right tree here. The league is always gonna try to make money. No sense in worrying about that.

[liam]

It's really bad:


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/celtics-alum-rasheed-wallace-today-080012873.html

[liam]

The refs just keep on ruining the season. The NBA needs to do something. Just horrible... I hope all the legalized gambling doesn't have anything to do with this avalanche of really bad officiating...


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blazers-to-reportedly-protest-game-vs-thunder-after-refs-miss-timeout-call-eject-chauncey-billups-054922496.html

[ozgod]

The Knicks escaped with a win after a no call by crew chief James Williams, who admitted afterward it was a mistake.

"The absolute worst call of the season," Williams said a few minutes after the game. He arrived in the media room before any reporters could get there and did not answer any questions after issuing his statement about the game's final sequence. "No call, and enough's enough. We've done it the right way. We've called the league. We've sent in clips. We're sick of hearing the same stuff over and over again.

"We had a chance to win the game, and a guy dove into Ausur's legs and there was a no-call. That's an abomination. You cannot miss that in an NBA game. Period. And I'm tired of talking about it. I'm tired of my guys asking, 'What more can we do, Coach?' That situation is Exhibit A to what we've been dealing with all season long, and enough's enough.

"You cannot dive into a guy's legs in a big-time game like that and there be a no-call. It's ridiculous, and we're tired of it. We just want a fair game called. Period. And I've got nothing else to say. We want a fair game, and that was not fair."

Referee James Williams, the crew chief, was standing right on top of the play, which occurred during a frenetic closing sequence, and admitted in a pool report after the game that it should have been called a foul.

"Upon postgame review, we determined that Thompson gets to the ball first and then was deprived of the opportunity to gain possession of the ball," James Williams said. "Therefore, a loose ball foul should have been whistled on New York's Donte DiVincenzo."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39606868/crew-chief-admits-missed-foul-pistons-lose

Here is the sequence in question, Williams was right there.

(click to play)

https://youtu.be/7i6yZY_Z4lg?si=imv7es58xwy0Yypc

Will Crew Chief Williams suffer any punishment or consequence, such a demotion to the G-League for a week or at the very least demotion from being crew chief, for his egregious error which cost the Pistons victory and more importantly could shape the final seedings for the Eastern Conference playoffs? Or will it be the usual, oh we stuffed up, get over it, from the league?

[liam]

The Knicks escaped with a win after a no call by crew chief James Williams, who admitted afterward it was a mistake.

"The absolute worst call of the season," Williams said a few minutes after the game. He arrived in the media room before any reporters could get there and did not answer any questions after issuing his statement about the game's final sequence. "No call, and enough's enough. We've done it the right way. We've called the league. We've sent in clips. We're sick of hearing the same stuff over and over again.

"We had a chance to win the game, and a guy dove into Ausur's legs and there was a no-call. That's an abomination. You cannot miss that in an NBA game. Period. And I'm tired of talking about it. I'm tired of my guys asking, 'What more can we do, Coach?' That situation is Exhibit A to what we've been dealing with all season long, and enough's enough.

"You cannot dive into a guy's legs in a big-time game like that and there be a no-call. It's ridiculous, and we're tired of it. We just want a fair game called. Period. And I've got nothing else to say. We want a fair game, and that was not fair."

Referee James Williams, the crew chief, was standing right on top of the play, which occurred during a frenetic closing sequence, and admitted in a pool report after the game that it should have been called a foul.

"Upon postgame review, we determined that Thompson gets to the ball first and then was deprived of the opportunity to gain possession of the ball," James Williams said. "Therefore, a loose ball foul should have been whistled on New York's Donte DiVincenzo."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39606868/crew-chief-admits-missed-foul-pistons-lose

Here is the sequence in question, Williams was right there.

(click to play)

https://youtu.be/7i6yZY_Z4lg?si=imv7es58xwy0Yypc

Will Crew Chief Williams suffer any punishment or consequence, such a demotion to the G-League for a week or at the very least demotion from being crew chief, for his egregious error which cost the Pistons victory and more importantly could shape the final seedings for the Eastern Conference playoffs? Or will it be the usual, oh we stuffed up, get over it, from the league?

The refs have been terrible this year. I watch a lot of games not just Celtics and the refs have been inconsistent and just plain bad. The NBA needs to address this. Telling fans they missed it when you can see them looking right at the play does nothing to clean this up.

[Celtics2021]

The Knicks escaped with a win after a no call by crew chief James Williams, who admitted afterward it was a mistake.

"The absolute worst call of the season," Williams said a few minutes after the game. He arrived in the media room before any reporters could get there and did not answer any questions after issuing his statement about the game's final sequence. "No call, and enough's enough. We've done it the right way. We've called the league. We've sent in clips. We're sick of hearing the same stuff over and over again.

"We had a chance to win the game, and a guy dove into Ausur's legs and there was a no-call. That's an abomination. You cannot miss that in an NBA game. Period. And I'm tired of talking about it. I'm tired of my guys asking, 'What more can we do, Coach?' That situation is Exhibit A to what we've been dealing with all season long, and enough's enough.

"You cannot dive into a guy's legs in a big-time game like that and there be a no-call. It's ridiculous, and we're tired of it. We just want a fair game called. Period. And I've got nothing else to say. We want a fair game, and that was not fair."

Referee James Williams, the crew chief, was standing right on top of the play, which occurred during a frenetic closing sequence, and admitted in a pool report after the game that it should have been called a foul.

"Upon postgame review, we determined that Thompson gets to the ball first and then was deprived of the opportunity to gain possession of the ball," James Williams said. "Therefore, a loose ball foul should have been whistled on New York's Donte DiVincenzo."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39606868/crew-chief-admits-missed-foul-pistons-lose

Here is the sequence in question, Williams was right there.

(click to play)

https://youtu.be/7i6yZY_Z4lg?si=imv7es58xwy0Yypc

Will Crew Chief Williams suffer any punishment or consequence, such a demotion to the G-League for a week or at the very least demotion from being crew chief, for his egregious error which cost the Pistons victory and more importantly could shape the final seedings for the Eastern Conference playoffs? Or will it be the usual, oh we stuffed up, get over it, from the league?

The refs have been terrible this year. I watch a lot of games not just Celtics and the refs have been inconsistent and just plain bad. The NBA needs to address this. Telling fans they missed it when you can see them looking right at the play does nothing to clean this up.

Yep, they need to institute a live ball challenge option.  One per game (maybe you get to keep it if successful, but I’d start at one per game) where you can challenge a no call.  The challenge would need to be initiated very quickly after the missed call (no more than 5 seconds), and a failed challenge would result in two technical free throws and possession for the other team (because you could be stopping a fast break with it).  But they need a solution for the most egregious non-calls.

[Redz]

The refs just keep on ruining the season. The NBA needs to do something. Just horrible... I hope all the legalized gambling doesn't have anything to do with this avalanche of really bad officiating...


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blazers-to-reportedly-protest-game-vs-thunder-after-refs-miss-timeout-call-eject-chauncey-billups-054922496.html

I had the Knicks on the money line last night. With how heavily they were favored it was a dumb bet, that “miraculously” ended up in my favor.  I never bet more than lunch money, so it’s not like it had any sway, but I’m guessing someone bet more than me.  It’s impossible to not connect refs actions with how much gambling is integrated with sports now.  Or maybe someone had big money on Detroit with awesome odds to win?  I dunno.


The calls just seem so bad.  There has to be a reason.

[Donoghus]

That is a horrific non-call.

[Kernewek]

The refs just keep on ruining the season. The NBA needs to do something. Just horrible... I hope all the legalized gambling doesn't have anything to do with this avalanche of really bad officiating...


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blazers-to-reportedly-protest-game-vs-thunder-after-refs-miss-timeout-call-eject-chauncey-billups-054922496.html

I had the Knicks on the money line last night. With how heavily they were favored it was a dumb bet, that “miraculously” ended up in my favor.  I never bet more than lunch money, so it’s not like it had any sway, but I’m guessing someone bet more than me.  It’s impossible to not connect refs actions with how much gambling is integrated with sports now.  Or maybe someone had big money on Detroit with awesome odds to win?  I dunno.


The calls just seem so bad.  There has to be a reason.

Maybe, but I think you'd have a hard time proving it beyond a coincidence.

It's probably not worth it for anyone with the time to do so, but it could be interesting to see how the relaxation & regulation of sports gambling lines up with more games covering 'bold' money lines and all that.

Now, having said that, there's little likelihood an investigative journalist or an aspiring data scientist is going to have more information than the extreme scrutiny that is already on the league from the various regulating bodies & government agencies. In other words, the potential rewards and avenues to fix a game are so obvious that you'd have to be very, very careful not to leave any kind of trail, especially after Donaghy.

If the casual fan is noticing, in other words, then a whole lot of other people are (or should be) already looking at it - people with a high incentive to do so.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

The refs just keep on ruining the season. The NBA needs to do something. Just horrible... I hope all the legalized gambling doesn't have anything to do with this avalanche of really bad officiating...


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blazers-to-reportedly-protest-game-vs-thunder-after-refs-miss-timeout-call-eject-chauncey-billups-054922496.html

I had the Knicks on the money line last night. With how heavily they were favored it was a dumb bet, that “miraculously” ended up in my favor.  I never bet more than lunch money, so it’s not like it had any sway, but I’m guessing someone bet more than me.  It’s impossible to not connect refs actions with how much gambling is integrated with sports now.  Or maybe someone had big money on Detroit with awesome odds to win?  I dunno.


The calls just seem so bad.  There has to be a reason.

Maybe, but I think you'd have a hard time proving it beyond a coincidence.

It's probably not worth it for anyone with the time to do so, but it could be interesting to see how the relaxation & regulation of sports gambling lines up with more games covering 'bold' money lines and all that.

Now, having said that, there's little likelihood an investigative journalist or an aspiring data scientist is going to have more information than the extreme scrutiny that is already on the league from the various regulating bodies & government agencies. In other words, the potential rewards and avenues to fix a game are so obvious that you'd have to be very, very careful not to leave any kind of trail, especially after Donaghy.

If the casual fan is noticing, in other words, then a whole lot of other people are (or should be) already looking at it - people with a high incentive to do so.

So then maybe there's no financial incentive, but just plain incompetence? In which case there still should be negative consequences for the referee, and those consequences should be communicated by the league to the public so that we know something's being done about it—as opposed to just saying, "Yeah, we made a mistake," and then moving on like nothing happened.

[Kernewek]

The refs just keep on ruining the season. The NBA needs to do something. Just horrible... I hope all the legalized gambling doesn't have anything to do with this avalanche of really bad officiating...


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blazers-to-reportedly-protest-game-vs-thunder-after-refs-miss-timeout-call-eject-chauncey-billups-054922496.html

I had the Knicks on the money line last night. With how heavily they were favored it was a dumb bet, that “miraculously” ended up in my favor.  I never bet more than lunch money, so it’s not like it had any sway, but I’m guessing someone bet more than me.  It’s impossible to not connect refs actions with how much gambling is integrated with sports now.  Or maybe someone had big money on Detroit with awesome odds to win?  I dunno.


The calls just seem so bad.  There has to be a reason.

Maybe, but I think you'd have a hard time proving it beyond a coincidence.

It's probably not worth it for anyone with the time to do so, but it could be interesting to see how the relaxation & regulation of sports gambling lines up with more games covering 'bold' money lines and all that.

Now, having said that, there's little likelihood an investigative journalist or an aspiring data scientist is going to have more information than the extreme scrutiny that is already on the league from the various regulating bodies & government agencies. In other words, the potential rewards and avenues to fix a game are so obvious that you'd have to be very, very careful not to leave any kind of trail, especially after Donaghy.

If the casual fan is noticing, in other words, then a whole lot of other people are (or should be) already looking at it - people with a high incentive to do so.

So then maybe there's no financial incentive, but just plain incompetence? In which case there still should be negative consequences for the referee, and those consequences should be communicated by the league to the public so that we know something's being done about it—as opposed to just saying, "Yeah, we made a mistake," and then moving on like nothing happened.

Sure, but not only are these two fundamentally different things -- one is someone doing a bad job (which the league can and, contrary to popular opinion, does address) and the other is cooking the books, but we presume that nothing happens behind the scenes regarding bad or substandard refereeing... with what evidence? The fact that you can still point to a handful of bad calls per season?

Good refereeing is supposed to be invisible, right? So our standard of 'better' refereeing is, what, a certain number of games without one blown call? Never going to happen. Officiating a basketball game competently is hard, and officiating an NBA basketball game is nearly impossible, especially now that everyone with access to the broadcast feed has a 'better' view of what's happening than the guys on the floor tasked with calling the game.

That's before we get into the fact that, as those of us who remember the 2009 ref walkout already know, the 'replacement refs' in the wings simply aren't up to the level of the 'bad' referees that are typically employed by the NBA.

[liam]

The refs just keep on ruining the season. The NBA needs to do something. Just horrible... I hope all the legalized gambling doesn't have anything to do with this avalanche of really bad officiating...


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blazers-to-reportedly-protest-game-vs-thunder-after-refs-miss-timeout-call-eject-chauncey-billups-054922496.html

I had the Knicks on the money line last night. With how heavily they were favored it was a dumb bet, that “miraculously” ended up in my favor.  I never bet more than lunch money, so it’s not like it had any sway, but I’m guessing someone bet more than me.  It’s impossible to not connect refs actions with how much gambling is integrated with sports now.  Or maybe someone had big money on Detroit with awesome odds to win?  I dunno.


The calls just seem so bad.  There has to be a reason.

Maybe, but I think you'd have a hard time proving it beyond a coincidence.

It's probably not worth it for anyone with the time to do so, but it could be interesting to see how the relaxation & regulation of sports gambling lines up with more games covering 'bold' money lines and all that.

Now, having said that, there's little likelihood an investigative journalist or an aspiring data scientist is going to have more information than the extreme scrutiny that is already on the league from the various regulating bodies & government agencies. In other words, the potential rewards and avenues to fix a game are so obvious that you'd have to be very, very careful not to leave any kind of trail, especially after Donaghy.

If the casual fan is noticing, in other words, then a whole lot of other people are (or should be) already looking at it - people with a high incentive to do so.

So then maybe there's no financial incentive, but just plain incompetence? In which case there still should be negative consequences for the referee, and those consequences should be communicated by the league to the public so that we know something's being done about it—as opposed to just saying, "Yeah, we made a mistake," and then moving on like nothing happened.

Sure, but not only are these two fundamentally different things -- one is someone doing a bad job (which the league can and, contrary to popular opinion, does address) and the other is cooking the books, but we presume that nothing happens behind the scenes regarding bad or substandard refereeing... with what evidence? The fact that you can still point to a handful of bad calls per season?

Good refereeing is supposed to be invisible, right? So our standard of 'better' refereeing is, what, a certain number of games without one blown call? Never going to happen. Officiating a basketball game competently is hard, and officiating an NBA basketball game is nearly impossible, especially now that everyone with access to the broadcast feed has a 'better' view of what's happening than the guys on the floor tasked with calling the game.

That's before we get into the fact that, as those of us who remember the 2009 ref walkout already know, the 'replacement refs' in the wings simply aren't up to the level of the 'bad' referees that are typically employed by the NBA.

I've been saying for years that they should have an off the floor official. One that can watch on video. Maybe even two. Tenis added Cyclops for line calls. the NBA could do similar things to improve the product. The NBA spends more time promoting players that they pick as stars than trying to improve the reffing of games. Players and games should all be called with one set of rules.

[liam]

The refs just keep on ruining the season. The NBA needs to do something. Just horrible... I hope all the legalized gambling doesn't have anything to do with this avalanche of really bad officiating...


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blazers-to-reportedly-protest-game-vs-thunder-after-refs-miss-timeout-call-eject-chauncey-billups-054922496.html

I had the Knicks on the money line last night. With how heavily they were favored it was a dumb bet, that “miraculously” ended up in my favor.  I never bet more than lunch money, so it’s not like it had any sway, but I’m guessing someone bet more than me.  It’s impossible to not connect refs actions with how much gambling is integrated with sports now.  Or maybe someone had big money on Detroit with awesome odds to win?  I dunno.


The calls just seem so bad.  There has to be a reason.

Maybe, but I think you'd have a hard time proving it beyond a coincidence.

It's probably not worth it for anyone with the time to do so, but it could be interesting to see how the relaxation & regulation of sports gambling lines up with more games covering 'bold' money lines and all that.

Now, having said that, there's little likelihood an investigative journalist or an aspiring data scientist is going to have more information than the extreme scrutiny that is already on the league from the various regulating bodies & government agencies. In other words, the potential rewards and avenues to fix a game are so obvious that you'd have to be very, very careful not to leave any kind of trail, especially after Donaghy.

If the casual fan is noticing, in other words, then a whole lot of other people are (or should be) already looking at it - people with a high incentive to do so.

So then maybe there's no financial incentive, but just plain incompetence? In which case there still should be negative consequences for the referee, and those consequences should be communicated by the league to the public so that we know something's being done about it—as opposed to just saying, "Yeah, we made a mistake," and then moving on like nothing happened.

Sure, but not only are these two fundamentally different things -- one is someone doing a bad job (which the league can and, contrary to popular opinion, does address) and the other is cooking the books, but we presume that nothing happens behind the scenes regarding bad or substandard refereeing... with what evidence? The fact that you can still point to a handful of bad calls per season?

Good refereeing is supposed to be invisible, right? So our standard of 'better' refereeing is, what, a certain number of games without one blown call? Never going to happen. Officiating a basketball game competently is hard, and officiating an NBA basketball game is nearly impossible, especially now that everyone with access to the broadcast feed has a 'better' view of what's happening than the guys on the floor tasked with calling the game.

That's before we get into the fact that, as those of us who remember the 2009 ref walkout already know, the 'replacement refs' in the wings simply aren't up to the level of the 'bad' referees that are typically employed by the NBA.

Blown calls happen in every NBA game. That's a given but not seeing a blatant push at the end of a close game that decides that game is a whole other level. This has been happening all year and is the worst I've ever seen it.

[Kernewek]

The refs just keep on ruining the season. The NBA needs to do something. Just horrible... I hope all the legalized gambling doesn't have anything to do with this avalanche of really bad officiating...


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blazers-to-reportedly-protest-game-vs-thunder-after-refs-miss-timeout-call-eject-chauncey-billups-054922496.html

I had the Knicks on the money line last night. With how heavily they were favored it was a dumb bet, that “miraculously” ended up in my favor.  I never bet more than lunch money, so it’s not like it had any sway, but I’m guessing someone bet more than me.  It’s impossible to not connect refs actions with how much gambling is integrated with sports now.  Or maybe someone had big money on Detroit with awesome odds to win?  I dunno.


The calls just seem so bad.  There has to be a reason.

Maybe, but I think you'd have a hard time proving it beyond a coincidence.

It's probably not worth it for anyone with the time to do so, but it could be interesting to see how the relaxation & regulation of sports gambling lines up with more games covering 'bold' money lines and all that.

Now, having said that, there's little likelihood an investigative journalist or an aspiring data scientist is going to have more information than the extreme scrutiny that is already on the league from the various regulating bodies & government agencies. In other words, the potential rewards and avenues to fix a game are so obvious that you'd have to be very, very careful not to leave any kind of trail, especially after Donaghy.

If the casual fan is noticing, in other words, then a whole lot of other people are (or should be) already looking at it - people with a high incentive to do so.

So then maybe there's no financial incentive, but just plain incompetence? In which case there still should be negative consequences for the referee, and those consequences should be communicated by the league to the public so that we know something's being done about it—as opposed to just saying, "Yeah, we made a mistake," and then moving on like nothing happened.

Sure, but not only are these two fundamentally different things -- one is someone doing a bad job (which the league can and, contrary to popular opinion, does address) and the other is cooking the books, but we presume that nothing happens behind the scenes regarding bad or substandard refereeing... with what evidence? The fact that you can still point to a handful of bad calls per season?

Good refereeing is supposed to be invisible, right? So our standard of 'better' refereeing is, what, a certain number of games without one blown call? Never going to happen. Officiating a basketball game competently is hard, and officiating an NBA basketball game is nearly impossible, especially now that everyone with access to the broadcast feed has a 'better' view of what's happening than the guys on the floor tasked with calling the game.

That's before we get into the fact that, as those of us who remember the 2009 ref walkout already know, the 'replacement refs' in the wings simply aren't up to the level of the 'bad' referees that are typically employed by the NBA.

Blown calls happen in every NBA game. That's a given but not seeing a blatant push at the end of a close game that decides that game is a whole other level. This has been happening all year and is the worst I've ever seen it.

Michael Jordan, Bryon Russell, 1998 Finals?

Agree with you on the off-the-floor referee, but I see the main problem there being that the game would inevitably slow to a crawl.