Author Topic: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...  (Read 75495 times)

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Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2011, 12:26:06 PM »

Offline blake

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We're always open to changing the way things are done here, but there has to be a compelling reason.  Nobody has given us a reason why allowing swears and the use of stereotypes and insults would make this site better.
Quote
If you want to repost this without the sexist remarks ("chicks", "6 year old girls", "ballerinas", "take the dresses off", "grow a set", etc.), please do so.  


My opinion is that swearing and insults are not on the same level as alluding to the play of NBA players as "soft" and comparing that to women.  I would find it hard to believe that a woman would take offense to this.  I believe that women would sooner take this as a compliment than take it as a disparaging remark.  Though equal, women and men have strengths and weaknesses.  One of those strengths for women is not typically being a physically overpowering force.

Saying "chicks" in particular is not a bad word for all women in general, but a certain type of woman.  "Chicks" origin is from Upton Sinclair's book, and it was to describe the type of woman the character did not want to marry.  It was used to describe a weak, and unimpressive woman.

Women are worth celebrating for their many strengths, but I don't think one of those strengths is being a physically overpowering force.  To try to pretend they are, I believe, is to take away from the many strengths women have.  

So I would think, to put being feminine on the same level as swearing, negative stereotypes, and insults is an insult in itself.

I could be wrong, but I dont think I am.  If I am, I would urge one of the many intelligent women on this board to speak up.  




I have seen a tiny woman screamed at in the face by a much bigger guy and she didn't even blink. I'd say that's amazing physical strength because the physical risk she took was bigger than mine. Does that make sense?

I do see where you are coming from.  But while it makes her mentally stronger than the man, it doesn't make her physically stronger.  While the Celtics may have been mentally stronger than the Heat (sans Pierce), we were less of a physical force.  This is where I believe the original poster is coming from.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2011, 12:26:24 PM »

Offline Who

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I like the sites rules ...

Things you say in conversation don't always come across the same way as you'd intend when writing posts on an internet forum. Less knowledge about the person(s) who are you talking to and understanding of how your comment is going to be interpreted by them. Best to avoid anything which may cause offense someone.

I think the conversations / threads / community benefit from the rules in place. Helps (1) keep the environment far more friendly (2) keep threads on topic which leads more constructive conversations / debates between posters.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2011, 12:31:24 PM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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ether way i dont think cussing or not cussing makes the site better or worse

I disagree.

Scoobydoo, stylo, etc....If you want to post in a site that includes unlimited profanity and slurs, etc,...Trust me.  There are plenty of forums to do that in.

As someone who's been reprimanded my share of times when things get heated...lol...I respect the mods who take the time to keep things civil.  Even when I don't agree with their position.  

There's a huge difference between political correctness and respectful human interraction.  I think the mods do a great service by keeping things civil....Even when heated.  

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2011, 12:32:27 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I find that disdaining and lamenting the prevalence of "political correctness" in our society is usually just a method that people use to justify ignorant and unimaginative word choice.

  I would take a somewhat opposite view. I think that much of the time political correctness is used in an effort to silence people who disagree with a given viewpoint. I think that likewise a significant portion of claims of offense at what someone says are feigned, and that "offense" is brandished like a weapon. People pounce on comments that are likely benign but can be construed as possibly racist/bigoted because they see it as an opportunity to smear their opponents. I think that this generally devalues actual racist/bigoted acts in a "boy who cried wolf" kind of way. I also feel that labeling a person or persons as racist or bigots based on the possibility that it might be true is as offensive as actual racism/bigotry.

I will take the opposite side to your opposite view.  I don't like the term "PC."  I feel it is used by people who either want to say something they know offends others, as a way to disclaim what they are saying, or have just said something offensive, as a way to say "Hey, I'm not at fault.  You're just being PC.  You aren't really offended."  And yet that is incorrect, because I'm actually offended by what stereotype/slur you have said.  So, in addition to being offended, I'm told that my feelings are wrong/fake/contrived.

I don't refrain from saying slurs and stereotypes because I think it's PC.  I refrain because I think it's wrong to insult someone based on a piece of their identity (race/gender/age/sexual preference/religion/physical ability/intelligence) that for the most part they can't control or ought not be required to change (i.e. religion.)  And it's just as wrong to use words that originally disparaged that group and apply them as a stereotype to someone else, who doesn't share that identity.  I don't refrain from that because I think it's the politically correct thing to do, but because it's the morally correct thing to do.  Just as I would cringe at or try to prevent physical violence against someone else, so to do I react viscerally against these words.

And this isn't to say that I have never uttered a word that might be considered offensive to someone.  Sometimes I'm ignorant as to the origins and implications of my word choice.  But when I learn of those origins and implications, I make an effort to stop using that word, or those stereotypes.  It sometimes takes a few weeks or months, but eventually that habit is gone.  And as I can still express myself quite adequately, I find it difficult to believe that changing my vocabulary had any drawbacks.

So next time, please don't call me PC (understanding that you didn't explicitly call "me" PC, but people like me in general.)  I have this view regardless of political implications, as I have never run for political office, and have little motivation to do so.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2011, 12:33:28 PM »

Offline BballTim

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i guess KG wont be on the site anytime soon & well i look at it like this as i think offending ppl should not be tolerated at all BUT i can say a sentence full of swears that does not offend anyone

celticsblog is a site that dosent want any cussing on it even tho its really not realistic for ppl not too cuss but hey its the rules

though swearing dosent make the site a better site not allowing swearing taints the realness of it

p.s. kevin garnett is on the celtics ...really no swearing?? lol


I can't help but notice KG can control that during interviews.  


Different language for different situations and locations.  

  I'm told he's very polite and respectful in person, just not on the court.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2011, 12:35:22 PM »

Offline Eja117

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This at the bottom of the rules makes it clear

Failure to abide by these rules may result in the editing, negative moderation or deletion of your post, comment or PM. We reserve the right to suspend and/or ban abusers from the site without prior warning. We reserve the right to change these rules at any time, without notice.

Basically the rules are what the mods say they are when they say it and they can change it at any time.

It's rules, not a constitution, which goes to what Jeff said when he said they aren't a country. They don't hide it and never said they were perfect and aren't asking you to acknowledge that they are.

The list of rules is ExtenSive. Have you seen it?

My question to the mods is ...has all that stuff actually happened? Please tell me no.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2011, 12:46:55 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I find that disdaining and lamenting the prevalence of "political correctness" in our society is usually just a method that people use to justify ignorant and unimaginative word choice.

  I would take a somewhat opposite view. I think that much of the time political correctness is used in an effort to silence people who disagree with a given viewpoint. I think that likewise a significant portion of claims of offense at what someone says are feigned, and that "offense" is brandished like a weapon. People pounce on comments that are likely benign but can be construed as possibly racist/bigoted because they see it as an opportunity to smear their opponents. I think that this generally devalues actual racist/bigoted acts in a "boy who cried wolf" kind of way. I also feel that labeling a person or persons as racist or bigots based on the possibility that it might be true is as offensive as actual racism/bigotry.

I will take the opposite side to your opposite view.  I don't like the term "PC."  I feel it is used by people who either want to say something they know offends others, as a way to disclaim what they are saying, or have just said something offensive, as a way to say "Hey, I'm not at fault.  You're just being PC.  You aren't really offended."  And yet that is incorrect, because I'm actually offended by what stereotype/slur you have said.  So, in addition to being offended, I'm told that my feelings are wrong/fake/contrived.


  First of all, you're choosing to be offended by my comments. I used phrases like "much of the time political correctness is used in an effort to silence people" and "a significant portion of claims of offense at what someone says are feigned". Clearly I didn't say "all of the time" or "all of the claims". In fact I was careful enough to use phrases that didn't automatically imply most or even half. Clearly your genuine feelings of offense would leave you outside that significant portion who aren't genuine. Yet you chose to not only take offense but to label my observations as stereotypes and slurs.

  I would also disagree with you about the threshold of what constitutes political correctness. You're talking about people who wish to make comments that they know will be perceived as offensive. I'm talking about people being labeled for making comments that could possibly be construed as insensitive even though there are equally plausible ways that the comment could be otherwise seen.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2011, 12:51:03 PM »

Offline Chris

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My question to the mods is ...has all that stuff actually happened? Please tell me no.

Whiles "rules" have certainly been added when it has been clear they are needed, they have never been changed in the process of dealing with an individual situation.

And any rules that have been added have really just been clarifications of existing rules, since some people have trouble grasping what it means to be respectful to others at all times.  

As far as I am concerned, there are 3 rules for this site.  Be respectful, watch your language, and don't spam.  Everything else is just an offshoot of those basic rules.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2011, 12:57:32 PM »

Offline Jeff

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regarding PC stuff - not going to get into this too deeply, but yeah, things you say out loud come across differently in text

so think of each post as your own little article and think of us as your editors ;)
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Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2011, 12:59:09 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I like the rules, not in themselves, but due to the reality that they allow us to maintain a better tone on this board than you will find on many sports forums. Internet anonymity emboldens many to lead discussions down dark paths and I am pretty pragmatic about these rule.

There are many sports forums out there and I would suggest to anyone with problems with the rules here to find one that fits their tastes. This forum is prioritizing harmonious discussions over complete freedom of expression. I like that since it only takes a few ignorant and loud individuals to change a site into a cesspool.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2011, 12:59:18 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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My question to the mods is ...has all that stuff actually happened? Please tell me no.

Whiles "rules" have certainly been added when it has been clear they are needed, they have never been changed in the process of dealing with an individual situation.

And any rules that have been added have really just been clarifications of existing rules, since some people have trouble grasping what it means to be respectful to others at all times. 

Yeah, I just did a quick scan of our rules, and the only ones I don't think have come up are:

Quote
This is not the place to settle a commercial disagreement or to be a 'wall of shame'. Any posts deemed to be of this nature will be removed. Settle your disputes in private please.

Quote
No site members or visitors are allowed, either individually or collectively, to use CelticsBlog to conspire to launch unauthorized (as in, without formal approval from CelticsBlog and its staff) and/or illegal collaborations, gatherings, demonstrations, boycotts, protests and other equivalent activities. This includes activities that potentially might result in physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, financial, domestic, organizational, civic, cultural or other injuries and/or losses to other individuals or groups.

Quote
CelticsBlog and its staff retain all rights available to them to notify potential targets of such behavior and authorities relevant to the offenses perceived by CelticsBlog and its staff. CelticsBlog and its staff also retain all rights available to them to seek both civil and criminal prosecution toward individuals, groups or organizations in such matters as may be pertinent on behalf of parties perceived to have been damaged (including CelticsBlog itself and its staff) as result of the behaviors defined in this statement.

Those are all rules that one of our former site contributors implemented because of things he had seen elsewhere. 

EDIT:  Actually, I think we may have shut down a petition with that second rule back in the day.


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Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2011, 01:07:50 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I find that disdaining and lamenting the prevalence of "political correctness" in our society is usually just a method that people use to justify ignorant and unimaginative word choice.

  I would take a somewhat opposite view. I think that much of the time political correctness is used in an effort to silence people who disagree with a given viewpoint. I think that likewise a significant portion of claims of offense at what someone says are feigned, and that "offense" is brandished like a weapon. People pounce on comments that are likely benign but can be construed as possibly racist/bigoted because they see it as an opportunity to smear their opponents. I think that this generally devalues actual racist/bigoted acts in a "boy who cried wolf" kind of way. I also feel that labeling a person or persons as racist or bigots based on the possibility that it might be true is as offensive as actual racism/bigotry.

I will take the opposite side to your opposite view.  I don't like the term "PC."  I feel it is used by people who either want to say something they know offends others, as a way to disclaim what they are saying, or have just said something offensive, as a way to say "Hey, I'm not at fault.  You're just being PC.  You aren't really offended."  And yet that is incorrect, because I'm actually offended by what stereotype/slur you have said.  So, in addition to being offended, I'm told that my feelings are wrong/fake/contrived.


  First of all, you're choosing to be offended by my comments. I used phrases like "much of the time political correctness is used in an effort to silence people" and "a significant portion of claims of offense at what someone says are feigned". Clearly I didn't say "all of the time" or "all of the claims". In fact I was careful enough to use phrases that didn't automatically imply most or even half. Clearly your genuine feelings of offense would leave you outside that significant portion who aren't genuine. Yet you chose to not only take offense but to label my observations as stereotypes and slurs.

  I would also disagree with you about the threshold of what constitutes political correctness. You're talking about people who wish to make comments that they know will be perceived as offensive. I'm talking about people being labeled for making comments that could possibly be construed as insensitive even though there are equally plausible ways that the comment could be otherwise seen.


What I'm saying is that the term "politically correct" is not a positive term.  It is one that is mostly used to shift the argument, like so:

Person A: [insert offensive statement here}
Person B: Hey, that's offensive!
Person A: Stop being so PC.

In this case, person A is not addressing what he or she said, but is instead questioning the motives of Person B in being offended.  Person B could be legitimately offended, but now isn't allowed to be.  Often this goes accompanied by some accusation of "choosing to be offended", as if taking offense is now a conscious decision, as opposed to the reaction it normally is.

Sometimes, you can also see it used like this:

Person A: [offensive statement]
Person C: Oh, that's not PC.  Person B will come after you now.

Still, we haven't dealt with the nature of the offensive statement, or that it's wrong, only that Person B will nefariously take offense.

Sometimes, it can be used this way:
Person A: I can't say what I'm thinking because it isn't PC, but [insert semi-offensive statement that plainly alludes to something more offensive.]

Now person A gets away with being offensive, while criticizing those who take offense, and at the same time not using the worst language, but only obvious substitutes.

My point is that calling someone "politically correct" doesn't move a conversation forward at all, but merely requires the offended person to show that their offense is real, and not a form of puffery.  It shifts responsibility for being offended from the person who uttered the original remarks to the person who heard them.  It is also very often used against someone (like me in my prior post) who takes offense about the statement even though it isn't directed at him or her, but at a third party, as if it's wrong to be offended on someone else's behalf.  This is why I very much dislike the phrase and don't use it any more.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2011, 01:13:06 PM »

Offline mgent

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i guess KG wont be on the site anytime soon & well i look at it like this as i think offending ppl should not be tolerated at all BUT i can say a sentence full of swears that does not offend anyone

celticsblog is a site that dosent want any cussing on it even tho its really not realistic for ppl not too cuss but hey its the rules

though swearing dosent make the site a better site not allowing swearing taints the realness of it

p.s. kevin garnett is on the celtics ...really no swearing?? lol


I can't help but notice KG can control that during interviews.  


Different language for different situations and locations.  
Sorry but that's not correct.  I've heard KG slip up multiple times in conferences, including the F-word, as well as post-game interviews (although that's typically Shaq's specialty).
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Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #58 on: May 03, 2011, 01:20:42 PM »

Offline Chris

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i guess KG wont be on the site anytime soon & well i look at it like this as i think offending ppl should not be tolerated at all BUT i can say a sentence full of swears that does not offend anyone

celticsblog is a site that dosent want any cussing on it even tho its really not realistic for ppl not too cuss but hey its the rules

though swearing dosent make the site a better site not allowing swearing taints the realness of it

p.s. kevin garnett is on the celtics ...really no swearing?? lol


I can't help but notice KG can control that during interviews.  


Different language for different situations and locations.  
Sorry but that's not correct.  I've heard KG slip up multiple times in conferences, including the F-word, as well as post-game interviews (although that's typically Shaq's specialty).

And if he does in a press conference, he often gets fined.  So, there you go.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #59 on: May 03, 2011, 01:24:09 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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My theory on political correctedness as it relates to the world: There are words in the world that are offensive to people because the traditional meaning behind them are derogatory. Usually these words are pejorative names for easily identifiable groups of people.

Since those words are hurtful to others, I refrain from using them.

The pejorative names for groups others would commonly associate myself with I don't find offensive. Cracker, mick, whatever...none of them bother me. I don't care.

That fact is irrelevant however on the words I choose to use. Just because I don't get upset does not mean I should hold it against someone if they get upset about words that are traditionally the nuclear bombs of the english language.

At some point though I think some words are not offensive, while others might think they are offensive, but because of the banality of the word in my eyes, I'll believe instead that outrage is manufactured, and mentally I will write them off as phonies and no longer care if I offend them.

When this happens, it is a purely subjective judgement call and varies from person to person. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I imagine some people think I'm a jerk because I make it. I'm prepared to live with that.

My theory on political correctedness on Celticsblog: It is whatever vision of the forum Jeff wants, and is carried out by the mods. My view on what language is or is not acceptable in my daily interactions is completely irrelevant when it is put next to celticsblog. Whether or not I agree with those is also irrelevant, because I signed up for the services, so I have to abide by the rules.

Celticsblog is the best forum for discussing the Celtics, and the best source for celtics news and analysis. If I can't swear or make bawdy jokes here, frankly my dear I don't give a (darn). Them's the rules, and I love it here, so I embrace them.

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