CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: KGBirdBias on January 23, 2018, 12:19:28 PM
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Anyone on board for a Kawhi Leonard for Brown, Smart and a few picks?
Kawhi said he wants out.
It wouldn't get much better than Kyrie, Hayward and Kawhi. Just saying.
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Anyone on board for a Kawhi Leonard for Brown, Smart and a few picks?
Kawhi said he wants out.
It wouldn't get much better than Kyrie, Hayward and Kawhi. Just saying.
No chance San Antonio is trading him, and if they were it would take a lot more. I think it would start with Tatum/Brown and the Lakers pick.
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Anyone on board for a Kawhi Leonard for Brown, Smart and a few picks?
Kawhi said he wants out.
It wouldn't get much better than Kyrie, Hayward and Kawhi. Just saying.
I think ESPN is blowing that out of proportions, but I'd do that package any day of the week, unsure if Spurs will do it though, I'll definitely throw in the Lakers pick
Kyrie/Tatum/Hayward/Horford/Kawhi, just wow
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Before everyone shoots it down. Remember last year when the "Kyrie wants out" news came out and initially we thought we didn't need him because we had IT. Ahem, well be rest assured Ainge has probably already made calls inquiring about what's going on.
Who has the assets to even make a call besides the Celtics?
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I doubt they trade him but if he absolutely demands a trade then the package would have to be Brown or Tatum plus the Lakers/Kings and the Grizzlies pick to begin with.
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Before everyone shoots it down. Remember last year when the "Kyrie wants out" news came out and initially we thought we didn't need him because we had IT. Ahem, well be rest assured Ainge has probably already made calls inquiring about what's going on.
Who has the assets to even make a call besides the Celtics?
Also last year, I remember the Spurs initially discrediting Jackie MacMullan’s piece about Aldridge wanting out and being unhappy.
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Just for discussion....I would start at...
Tatum is off limits.
They can have Brown, the Lakers pick, another pick and anyone else besides Kyrie and Tatum.
Do you know how much our defense would improve with Kawhi? Easliy the best two way player in the game.
Brown fits in with the Spurs youth movement and that Lakers pick will set them up pretty good.
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Anyone on board for a Kawhi Leonard for Brown, Smart and a few picks?
Kawhi said he wants out.
It wouldn't get much better than Kyrie, Hayward and Kawhi. Just saying.
Source that he said he wants out? I've heard there was some friction, but I hadn't heard that?
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Kyrie, Hayward, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford.
Rozier and Baynes off the bench.
If healthy, I would bet on that team vs Golden State ;D
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I'd happily move Brown and the pick stash to pick up Kawhi, but it's not happening.
I also don't believe Kawhi wants out. That assertion comes from Jalen Rose (lol). First of all, he's no source. Second, his reasoning makes little sense. The Spurs are struggling to attract elite talent? Lamarcus Aldridge exists as a counterpoint to that statement. Since then, their lack of available cap space - not this stupid "stars don't want to come to San Antonio because they'd have to work" idea put forth by Rose - is what has kept them from adding any more major pieces. But despite their apparent lack of elite talent, the Spurs have remained very relevant in the West even without Kawhi.
Get out of here with that. This crap is why fans are giving up on ESPN's analysis. Is there friction over this injury? Sure, I'd believe that; that makes sense to me. But Jalen Rose's opinion is useless and should be treated as such.
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I mean, since Kawhi wants out, the Spurs don't have that much leverage. Even with the Kyrie trade, the cavs got a terrible deal for it. Can you imagine us with Crowder, Zizic, and IT still on this team? Would we get the same results that we have right now? If I were the celtics, I would trade Brown (Kawhi is a better 2-way player) the LA/Sac pick, the Grizzlies or Clippers pick, and add in a few other bench players with the process. Maybe we could trade Horford and replace him with Theis ::)
Looking at the league right now, everybody literally wants out, it's unbelievable. Giannis might grow unhappy due to Kidd being fired. Imagine if we got a trade for him going...
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Not sure this narrative really holds much water, but even if true...... is Kawhi gonna, like, play basketball? Recent string of injuries if concerning. Admittedly I'm not keeping close tabs on the situation but if we're talking about a guy who will be making a full recovery and returning to the court next year, I mean, we already got one of those.
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Kawhi with those injury issue isn't worth Brown alone
Rozier, Smart ,Nader,Morris and lakers pick or no deal
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I'd happily move Brown and the pick stash to pick up Kawhi, but it's not happening.
I also don't believe Kawhi wants out. That assertion comes from Jalen Rose (lol). First of all, he's no source. Second, his reasoning makes little sense. The Spurs are struggling to attract elite talent? Lamarcus Aldridge exists as a counterpoint to that statement. Since then, their lack of available cap space - not this stupid "stars don't want to come to San Antonio because they'd have to work" idea put forth by Rose - is what has kept them from adding any more major pieces. But despite their apparent lack of elite talent, the Spurs have remained very relevant in the West even without Kawhi.
Get out of here with that. This crap is why fans are giving up on ESPN's analysis. Is there friction over this injury? Sure, I'd believe that; that makes sense to me. But Jalen Rose's opinion is useless and should be treated as such.
I bet you wrote this same thing last year when rumor got out that Kyrie wanted out after winning a title. We just never know what is going on. The Spurs are fairly old and could start a rebuild.
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I'd happily move Brown and the pick stash to pick up Kawhi, but it's not happening.
I also don't believe Kawhi wants out. That assertion comes from Jalen Rose (lol). First of all, he's no source. Second, his reasoning makes little sense. The Spurs are struggling to attract elite talent? Lamarcus Aldridge exists as a counterpoint to that statement. Since then, their lack of available cap space - not this stupid "stars don't want to come to San Antonio because they'd have to work" idea put forth by Rose - is what has kept them from adding any more major pieces. But despite their apparent lack of elite talent, the Spurs have remained very relevant in the West even without Kawhi.
Get out of here with that. This crap is why fans are giving up on ESPN's analysis. Is there friction over this injury? Sure, I'd believe that; that makes sense to me. But Jalen Rose's opinion is useless and should be treated as such.
I bet you wrote this same thing last year when rumor got out that Kyrie wanted out after winning a title. We just never know what is going on. The Spurs are fairly old and could start a rebuild.
Sure, but the rebuild would start with Leonard who isn't exactly old and is a top 5 player in the league (when healthy).
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I'd happily move Brown and the pick stash to pick up Kawhi, but it's not happening.
I also don't believe Kawhi wants out. That assertion comes from Jalen Rose (lol). First of all, he's no source. Second, his reasoning makes little sense. The Spurs are struggling to attract elite talent? Lamarcus Aldridge exists as a counterpoint to that statement. Since then, their lack of available cap space - not this stupid "stars don't want to come to San Antonio because they'd have to work" idea put forth by Rose - is what has kept them from adding any more major pieces. But despite their apparent lack of elite talent, the Spurs have remained very relevant in the West even without Kawhi.
Get out of here with that. This crap is why fans are giving up on ESPN's analysis. Is there friction over this injury? Sure, I'd believe that; that makes sense to me. But Jalen Rose's opinion is useless and should be treated as such.
I bet you wrote this same thing last year when rumor got out that Kyrie wanted out after winning a title. We just never know what is going on. The Spurs are fairly old and could start a rebuild.
Sure, but the rebuild would start with Leonard who isn't exactly old and is a top 5 player in the league (when healthy).
I'm not saying it's going to happen but we just saw stranger things happen with the Cavs and they traded Kyrie to a conference foe. Aldridge wanted out last year and Pop spoke to him.
Kawhi may be wondering why he is still sitting out games. The Spurs may be trying to save him. It will all come out and but I would be shocked if the Spurs traded him. Ainge has to inquire though.
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I'd happily move Brown and the pick stash to pick up Kawhi, but it's not happening.
I also don't believe Kawhi wants out. That assertion comes from Jalen Rose (lol). First of all, he's no source. Second, his reasoning makes little sense. The Spurs are struggling to attract elite talent? Lamarcus Aldridge exists as a counterpoint to that statement. Since then, their lack of available cap space - not this stupid "stars don't want to come to San Antonio because they'd have to work" idea put forth by Rose - is what has kept them from adding any more major pieces. But despite their apparent lack of elite talent, the Spurs have remained very relevant in the West even without Kawhi.
Get out of here with that. This crap is why fans are giving up on ESPN's analysis. Is there friction over this injury? Sure, I'd believe that; that makes sense to me. But Jalen Rose's opinion is useless and should be treated as such.
I bet you wrote this same thing last year when rumor got out that Kyrie wanted out after winning a title. We just never know what is going on. The Spurs are fairly old and could start a rebuild.
Sure, but the rebuild would start with Leonard who isn't exactly old and is a top 5 player in the league (when healthy).
I'm not saying it's going to happen but we just saw stranger things happen with the Cavs and they traded Kyrie to a conference foe. Aldridge wanted out last year and Pop spoke to him.
Kawhi may be wondering why he is still sitting out games. The Spurs may be trying to save him. It will all come out and but I would be shocked if the Spurs traded him. Ainge has to inquire though.
I think Kawhi being traded out of San Antonio right now would be stranger than Kyrie being traded to the C's was. There's been one report of friction that read to me like it had a lot to do with how Kawhi is dealing with being away from the team because of injury. I haven't seen any actual reporting that said he wants out.
There is also a huge difference between the San Antonio Spurs and the Cleveland Cavaliers. Kawhi asking out of that situation would be very strange to me. Kyrie wanting out of Cleveland, while a surprise, was not all that strange to me.
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The Ringer posted an article with trade ideas teams could make for Kawhi.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/1/23/16924576/kawhi-leonard-trades-shootaround
For Boston, they (Bill Simmons, who did the Boston idea), prosposed Brown, Baynes, Lakers Pick + 2019 Grizzlies OR Clippers first for Kawhi.
It's not bad. But I'd try to swap Baynes with someone else (we need Baynes the bruiser in the playoffs IMHO).
Now I don't think this report is true anyways (it's #fakenews), BUT I also thought the Kyrie trade demand last year was fake news and NEVER IN MY WILDEST DREAMS imagined the Celtics would trade for Kyrie Irving.
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Spurs receive: Jaylen Brown, Aron Baynes, a first-round pick (via the Lakers), another first-round pick (via the Grizzlies)
Celtics receive: Kawhi Leonard
Bill Simmons: Who says no?
The ESPN trade machine says no.
We would have to dump some contracts in order for the trade to go through.
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Spurs receive: Jaylen Brown, Aron Baynes, a first-round pick (via the Lakers), another first-round pick (via the Grizzlies)
Celtics receive: Kawhi Leonard
Bill Simmons: Who says no?
The ESPN trade machine says no.
We would have to dump some contracts in order for the trade to go through.
What works is Brown, Morris, Yabusele and either Rozier/Larkins in terms of salary.
But then we'd lack depth and have no real back up guard behind Kyrie and Smart (besides one of Larkin/Rozier).
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Spurs receive: Jaylen Brown, Aron Baynes, a first-round pick (via the Lakers), another first-round pick (via the Grizzlies)
Celtics receive: Kawhi Leonard
Bill Simmons: Who says no?
The ESPN trade machine says no.
We would have to dump some contracts in order for the trade to go through.
What works is Brown, Morris, Yabusele and either Rozier/Larkins in terms of salary.
But then we'd lack depth and have no real back up guard behind Kyrie and Smart (besides one of Larkin/Rozier).
Figure it out later. A player like Kawhi Leonard, if he's available and has a chance to be 100% again, is worth trading all the farm for. Sign minimum guys for now and figure out the rest of the team in the next offseason. If we are rolling with Kyrie, Hayward, Kawhi, Tatum and Horford next year, we don't need a lot as far as addition to the team is concerned.
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Spurs receive: Jaylen Brown, Aron Baynes, a first-round pick (via the Lakers), another first-round pick (via the Grizzlies)
Celtics receive: Kawhi Leonard
Bill Simmons: Who says no?
The ESPN trade machine says no.
We would have to dump some contracts in order for the trade to go through.
What works is Brown, Morris, Yabusele and either Rozier/Larkins in terms of salary.
But then we'd lack depth and have no real back up guard behind Kyrie and Smart (besides one of Larkin/Rozier).
Figure it out later. A player like Kawhi Leonard, if he's available and has a chance to be 100% again, is worth trading all the farm for. Sign minimum guys for now and figure out the rest of the team in the next offseason. If we are rolling with Kyrie, Hayward, Kawhi, Tatum and Horford next year, we don't need a lot as far as addition to the team is concerned.
I'll play along with this Kawhi trade saga and say, even if they did all that and re-signed Smart, that looks like a BIG luxury tax for Wyc and co. to pay. Idk if they'd do it.
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For Kwahi I'd be willing to include BOTH Tatum and Brown.
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For Kwahi I'd be willing to include BOTH Tatum and Brown.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7aTLhoDUdLALkXBe/giphy.gif)
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For Kwahi I'd be willing to include BOTH Tatum and Brown.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7aTLhoDUdLALkXBe/giphy.gif)
MVP candidates don't grow on trees .
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Spurs receive: Jaylen Brown, Aron Baynes, a first-round pick (via the Lakers), another first-round pick (via the Grizzlies)
Celtics receive: Kawhi Leonard
Bill Simmons: Who says no?
The ESPN trade machine says no.
We would have to dump some contracts in order for the trade to go through.
I don't think throwing in Yabusele, Nader and Larkin/Ojeyele is exactly going to hold us up. Or you make the deal after the draft, where our picked player is making around $6M.
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For Kwahi I'd be willing to include BOTH Tatum and Brown.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7aTLhoDUdLALkXBe/giphy.gif)
Too funny. I think Brown is the perfect guy for them to build around.
I believe something is there with Kawhi. He either wants to go home to LA or he wants more talent around him. Think about when Parker and Manu leave that team is going to look a lot different. Success in the past doesn't mean success in the future.
I'm not saying he's going to be a Celtic, but do the Lakers or anyone else have what the Celtics have unless you're talking about Cousins or AD. I've seen too much and when talk like this starts it usually doesn't stop until a move is made. Also think outside the West because the Spurs are not doing any deals in the West. I just think the Spurs run is over and Kawhi knows it.
A Big 3 of Irving, Hayward and Leonard is too good not to inquire. GMs talk but players talk too.
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Give up ALL STAR Al Horford!!
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Give up ALL STAR Al Horford!!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7aTLhoDUdLALkXBe/giphy.gif)
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I'd love to add Kawhi - if he's healthy. The quad injury is a concern, though. The fact that's its been an issue so long makes me nervous. With muscle injuries, there's an increased risk of heterotopic ossification (abnormal bone growth) that isn't treatable, so a deep dive into his medical records would be needed.
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Spurs won't trade Leonard..they work it out
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I believe players now control how they want things to go...thanks to Bron. Players are copycats and see what Kyrie did and will not say anything publicly but will privately.
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I'd love to add Kawhi - if he's healthy. The quad injury is a concern, though. The fact that's its been an issue so long makes me nervous. With muscle injuries, there's an increased risk of heterotopic ossification (abnormal bone growth) that isn't treatable, so a deep dive into his medical records would be needed.
WOW MAN.
I was literally just taking an online quiz for a clinical skills class I take at my Uni, and this was one of the terms (it was a quiz on terminology and roots/prefixes/suffixes) ;D
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Spurs won't trade Leonard..they work it out
Not if Leonard wants out
Celts must consider
To Spurs - Horford, Tatum, Rozier
To Celtics- Leonard
Baynes
Morris
Leonard
Brown
Kyrie
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Spurs won't trade Leonard..they work it out
Not if Leonard wants out
Celts must consider
To Spurs - (Horford AND Tatum??), Rozier
To Celtics- Leonard
Baynes
Morris
Leonard
Brown
Kyrie
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7aTLhoDUdLALkXBe/giphy.gif)
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I'd love to add Kawhi - if he's healthy. The quad injury is a concern, though. The fact that's its been an issue so long makes me nervous. With muscle injuries, there's an increased risk of heterotopic ossification (abnormal bone growth) that isn't treatable, so a deep dive into his medical records would be needed.
WOW MAN.
I was literally just taking an online quiz for a clinical skills class I take at my Uni, and this was one of the terms (it was a quiz on terminology and roots/prefixes/suffixes) ;D
Lol, hope you got the question right.
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I'd love to add Kawhi - if he's healthy. The quad injury is a concern, though. The fact that's its been an issue so long makes me nervous. With muscle injuries, there's an increased risk of heterotopic ossification (abnormal bone growth) that isn't treatable, so a deep dive into his medical records would be needed.
WOW MAN.
I was literally just taking an online quiz for a clinical skills class I take at my Uni, and this was one of the terms (it was a quiz on terminology and roots/prefixes/suffixes) ;D
Lol, hope you got the question right.
Yep. ;D
(It's open book though and open computer so it's not hard haha)
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Anyone on board for a Kawhi Leonard for Brown, Smart and a few picks?
Kawhi said he wants out.
It wouldn't get much better than Kyrie, Hayward and Kawhi. Just saying.
Kawhi didn’t say he wanted out. A couple reporters said he did. BIG difference.
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Wow, Kawhi has been cleared to play but is choosing NOT to play. He seriously wants out.
He may want to go home to the Lakers...but give it a shot Ainge. The Lakers have nothing to give up.
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I don't keep up with all the rules. If he's cleared to play by the doctors and he doesn't , do the Spurs still have to pay him?
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Morris, Rozier, Brown, Yabusele, 2019 Kings Pick + Another Future 1st.
That's probably what we can offer this summer if we wanted Kawhi, and maybe Spurs accept?
But frankly, I think this is more smokescreen. Don't see Kawhi acting this way (acting "selfish") and think Spurs keep him long term still.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
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I'm confused. He doesn't like playing for arguably one of the greatest coaches and for one of the best run franchises that win 50 games a season even in their offseasons?
Does he not like basketball anymore?
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I'm confused. He doesn't like playing for arguably one of the greatest coaches and for one of the best run franchises that win 50 games a season even in their offseasons?
Does he not like basketball anymore?
Gotta be a ton of behind the scenes stuff going on that hasn't gotten out yet. Not every team is the Cavs where the basic day to day happens off the court are reported. Wouldn't be the first time a great player decided they wanted to get out from under a great coach or situation.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
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Hypothetically speaking can you imagine a big three of Irving, Leonard & Davis...most probably the greatest big three ever.
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Hypothetically speaking can you imagine a big three of Irving, Leonard & Davis...most probably the greatest big three ever.
I could sacrifice Yabu to have that .. :)
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Morris, Rozier, Brown, Yabusele, 2019 Kings Pick + Another Future 1st.
That's probably what we can offer this summer if we wanted Kawhi, and maybe Spurs accept?
But frankly, I think this is more smokescreen. Don't see Kawhi acting this way (acting "selfish") and think Spurs keep him long term still.
That is a joke package for a player some consider top-5 in the league, and the best 2-way player besides Lebron.
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Morris, Rozier, Brown, Yabusele, 2019 Kings Pick + Another Future 1st.
That's probably what we can offer this summer if we wanted Kawhi, and maybe Spurs accept?
But frankly, I think this is more smokescreen. Don't see Kawhi acting this way (acting "selfish") and think Spurs keep him long term still.
That is a joke package for a player some consider top-5 in the league, and the best 2-way player besides Lebron.
I wouldn't call it a joke package. Butler was traded for Dunn, LaVine + exchanging 16th for 7th pick. And it was considered one of the better returns for an All Star in comparison with the (apparent) marginal return for Cousins and George later.
We can easily see that this proposed package for Leonard by Phantom is way better than what Chicago got for Butler (which it should). I would value it as follows: Rozier<=Dunn, Brown>LaVine, '19 Kings + Morris + Yabusele + Future 1st>>draft pick exchange.
So if Leonard wants out I think this is a decent offer. Who is going to offer more? Will LA offer at least two of Ball, Ingram and Kuzma for instance? Philadelphia would certainly give up Fultz, Saric, Korkmaz, '18 Lakers + Future 1st, so that would probably be the biggest rival (and Leonard joining Embiid and Simmons is a scary thought!). Phoenix also has a lot of assets, but I'm not sure Leonard wants to go there.
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Morris, Rozier, Brown, Yabusele, 2019 Kings Pick + Another Future 1st.
That's probably what we can offer this summer if we wanted Kawhi, and maybe Spurs accept?
But frankly, I think this is more smokescreen. Don't see Kawhi acting this way (acting "selfish") and think Spurs keep him long term still.
That is a joke package for a player some consider top-5 in the league, and the best 2-way player besides Lebron.
I wouldn't call it a joke package. Butler was traded for Dunn, LaVine + exchanging 16th for 7th pick. And it was considered one of the better returns for an All Star in comparison with the (apparent) marginal return for Cousins and George later.
We can easily see that this proposed package for Leonard by Phantom is way better than what Chicago got for Butler (which it should). I would value it as follows: Rozier<=Dunn, Brown>LaVine, '19 Kings + Morris + Yabusele + Future 1st>>draft pick exchange.
So if Leonard wants out I think this is a decent offer. Who is going to offer more? Will LA offer at least two of Ball, Ingram and Kuzma for instance? Philadelphia would certainly give up Fultz, Saric, Korkmaz, '18 Lakers + Future 1st, so that would probably be the biggest rival (and Leonard joining Embiid and Simmons is a scary thought!). Phoenix also has a lot of assets, but I'm not sure Leonard wants to go there.
Leonard is >>>>>> than Butler. It's hard to compare the two. On a strictly Butler-esque scale, it's a pretty good package, but prices for stars tend to grow exponentially, not incrementally. The best thing that a team that traded for him would have going (in terms of keeping the price low) is that he only has one year left on his contract.
Having said that, while I think that a Kawhi trade is a fun topic to kick around during a slow period of news from the NBA, that's all that this likely is. I doubt he's going anywhere.
Mike
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
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I think Leonard is over rated. That is not to say that he isn't a top player and wouldn't be great on the Celtics but there are warning flags. It will probably take Brown or Tatum to start but I definitely look into this if there is really something there.
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I would guess that if SAS trades Leonard they are going to want to rebuild, so they are going to want as many young players and assets as possible, so Tatum, Brown, Yab, Rozier, LAL/SAC 1st for Leonard (I think that works using next years' salaries - if the pick conveys this year, we can probably keep Yab and Rozier from a value standpoint). It is a lot to give up, but I think that makes sense for both teams. So Boston post-trade (assuming pick doesn't convey)
PG - Irving, Smart (re-signed)
SG - Hayward
SF - Leonard, Nader
PF - Morris, Theis, Semi
C - Horford, Monroe (re-signed)
Add Boston's 1st this year and some vets to fill in the bench.
That team is a clear contender and will be one for at least 5 years (assuming health).
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
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Morris, Rozier, Brown, Yabusele, 2019 Kings Pick + Another Future 1st.
That's probably what we can offer this summer if we wanted Kawhi, and maybe Spurs accept?
But frankly, I think this is more smokescreen. Don't see Kawhi acting this way (acting "selfish") and think Spurs keep him long term still.
That will be too much, i won't include Brown, Nader+first rounder instead and we have a deal
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
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Tatum + Brown can only go for AD, otherwise don't touch it.
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Tatum + Brown can only go for AD, otherwise don't touch it.
Leonard is better than Davis and unlike Davis, Boston would actually be getting a wing back in return.
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Tatum + Brown can only go for AD, otherwise don't touch it.
Leonard is better than Davis and unlike Davis, Boston would actually be getting a wing back in return.
He is overrated in Pop's system and now injury prone..
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
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Kyrie Irving himself states that Boston was not on his radar until Danny reached out to him. Then Boston quickly became his number 1 choice.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
You’re posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like it’s gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.
The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, and we weren’t on it. That list wasn’t questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didn’t want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.
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Love to see Leonard in Green. Question is, how bad is this injury? Would we be getting the pre-injury Leonard? That trade of Brown, the Sac pick, and Rozier + others almost seem too much if there's a good chance Kawhi won't be 100%.
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Morris, Rozier, Brown, Yabusele, 2019 Kings Pick + Another Future 1st.
That's probably what we can offer this summer if we wanted Kawhi, and maybe Spurs accept?
But frankly, I think this is more smokescreen. Don't see Kawhi acting this way (acting "selfish") and think Spurs keep him long term still.
To all the posters above who commented on this trade idea (whoever liked/hated it), I created it with the mindset that salaries needed to match and thinking about the roster that would be left over w/those that departed in the trade and getting Leonard back.
This makes most sense for us, and I'm not a fan of giving up BOTH Tatum + Brown, as well as Kings Pick for Kawhi. Love him, think he's an underrated Top-10 player in this league (when healthy), but now there's a bit of injury risk too, and that's overall a very hefty package (esp. with Kings Pick likely to land Top-5 next year). It probably also allows us to keep Smart with Bird Rights while Rozier is the odd man out in the guard group (via trade).
Now SAS may not like it, and they may get better offers elsewhere, but this idea is the "basis" of what the C's could offer, unless Ainge goes crazy :P
Tatum + Brown can only go for AD, otherwise don't touch it.
Leonard is better than Davis and unlike Davis, Boston would actually be getting a wing back in return.
Yeah I love Kawhi but I disagree. AD is also one of the top defenders in the league and is just 24 y/o. Easily a top-5 talent in this league. I get that Kawhi has the championship pedigree, but he's also had better coaching and better system around him (which isn't a knock at Kawhi, but Davis hasn't had that in his career if we're being frank).
Pelicans finally seemed to have something going with Cousins, Rondo, etc., but Cousins' injury changes a lot now, possibly even for next year.
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Tatum + Brown can only go for AD, otherwise don't touch it.
Leonard is better than Davis and unlike Davis, Boston would actually be getting a wing back in return.
I don't think so. AD is no lower than 4th best player currently behind James, Curry and Durant. He is better than Leonard and Westbrook.
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A trade for Kawhi is more doable than a trade for AD. We would only need to get to 16.08 in salary if he waived his 15% trade kicker.
Unfortunately, Tatum, Morris, and Rozier would not be enough to get that done. We'd need to include Nader also.
Still not sure I want to say goodbye to any of our young guys, but it is easier to trade for Leonard than AD.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
He must have wanted to come and be here, he dropped his trade kicker costing him over a million dollars.
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Morris, Rozier, Brown, Yabusele, 2019 Kings Pick + Another Future 1st.
That's probably what we can offer this summer if we wanted Kawhi, and maybe Spurs accept?
But frankly, I think this is more smokescreen. Don't see Kawhi acting this way (acting "selfish") and think Spurs keep him long term still.
To all the posters above who commented on this trade idea (whoever liked/hated it), I created it with the mindset that salaries needed to match and thinking about the roster that would be left over w/those that departed in the trade and getting Leonard back.
This makes most sense for us, and I'm not a fan of giving up BOTH Tatum + Brown, as well as Kings Pick for Kawhi. Love him, think he's an underrated Top-10 player in this league (when healthy), but now there's a bit of injury risk too, and that's overall a very hefty package (esp. with Kings Pick likely to land Top-5 next year). It probably also allows us to keep Smart with Bird Rights while Rozier is the odd man out in the guard group (via trade).
Now SAS may not like it, and they may get better offers elsewhere, but this idea is the "basis" of what the C's could offer, unless Ainge goes crazy :P
Tatum + Brown can only go for AD, otherwise don't touch it.
Leonard is better than Davis and unlike Davis, Boston would actually be getting a wing back in return.
Yeah I love Kawhi but I disagree. AD is also one of the top defenders in the league and is just 24 y/o. Easily a top-5 talent in this league. I get that Kawhi has the championship pedigree, but he's also had better coaching and better system around him (which isn't a knock at Kawhi, but Davis hasn't had that in his career if we're being frank).
Pelicans finally seemed to have something going with Cousins, Rondo, etc., but Cousins' injury changes a lot now, possibly even for next year.
Kawhi Leonard is a top 5 player in this league. Anthony Davis is not. Leonard is 26 and has been the Defensive Player of the Year twice. Davis has never been the DPOY. Leonard has 2 top 3 MVP finishes. Davis has 0. Leonard has 3 First Team All Defense teams. Davis has 0.
Leonard is a little over 1.5 years older (Davis turns 25 in a few weeks) and has been in the league a year longer, but neither of those is a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
I love Davis and would absolutely trade both Tatum and Brown for him. I would just trade them both for Leonard as well, as Leonard is better than Davis (assuming he is healthy of course).
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I live in San Antonio and people here are freaking out over this. Can't say I feel bad for them though. San Antonio fans have literally known nothing but success for the past 20+ years in basketball terms.
Being a Boston fan, we deal with drama all the time! Feels good to see the fans squirm a little bit.
All that being said, I love Kahwi Leonard but I don't think the Celtics should mortgage the future for him. He's great when healthy but it sounds like his quad injury could be a chronic problem down the line. I'm not sure that he will bounce back from this and be the same player.
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I would want assurances that his quad injury is not something that would drag him for the rest of his career, but yes, absolutely yes.
I would go as far to say as I would trade Jayson Tatum for him. Kawhi Leonard is a special player, and when that kind of player becomes available, you don't think twice.
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What IF Big if...we offered this at the trade deadline and they said okay!
AL and Brown Lakers 1st for Gasol and Kawhi
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
He must have wanted to come and be here, he dropped his trade kicker costing him over a million dollars.
I know that and I’ve said it too, that he did eventually want to come here. I’m saying it’s pretty clear that he didn’t always want to be here, evident by the original request and us not being on the list of 4.
I don’t really know how we got here, but I brought up Kyrie to show that the Celtics should obviously still pursue Kawhi, even though that poster heard some random podcast that said Kawhi wants to go back to California. We still pursued and eventually traded for Kyrie even after he had shown interest in other teams, so some random rumor that Kawhi might want to go back to California shouldn’t deter us from trying to get him.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
You’re posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like it’s gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.
The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, and we weren’t on it. That list wasn’t questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didn’t want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.
Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
You’re posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like it’s gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.
The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, and we weren’t on it. That list wasn’t questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didn’t want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.
Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
It was very realistic. IT was significantly hurt and we needed a star. It actually made more sense than a lot of other teams, which is why it happened. And look at the wolves, who he did have on his list. They weren’t realistic at all. They had just signed Teague to a $60 million dollar deal, so even if they wanted to trade him, they couldn’t.
I don’t know why some of you cant deal with the fact that he didn’t always want to come here.
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Im down
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
You’re posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like it’s gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.
The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, and we weren’t on it. That list wasn’t questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didn’t want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.
Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
It was very realistic. IT was significantly hurt and we needed a star. It actually made more sense than a lot of other teams, which is why it happened. And look at the wolves, who he did have on his list. They weren’t realistic at all. They had just signed Teague to a $60 million dollar deal, so even if they wanted to trade him, they couldn’t.
I don’t know why some of you cant deal with the fact that he didn’t always want to come here.
Except that list didn't actually come from Irving. You can say he didn't deny it, but he didn't confirm it either. He talked a lot here about how everything was coming from people that weren't him. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20745983/nba-kyrie-irving-explains-trade-request-more-first-take
When the former general manager of the Cavs speaks, with his name on it, I tend to believe him rather than some random unsourced leak that has its own agenda for making the leak.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
You’re posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like it’s gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.
The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, and we weren’t on it. That list wasn’t questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didn’t want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.
Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
It was very realistic. IT was significantly hurt and we needed a star. It actually made more sense than a lot of other teams, which is why it happened. And look at the wolves, who he did have on his list. They weren’t realistic at all. They had just signed Teague to a $60 million dollar deal, so even if they wanted to trade him, they couldn’t.
I don’t know why some of you cant deal with the fact that he didn’t always want to come here.
Except that list didn't actually come from Irving. You can say he didn't deny it, but he didn't confirm it either. He talked a lot here about how everything was coming from people that weren't him. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20745983/nba-kyrie-irving-explains-trade-request-more-first-take
When the former general manager of the Cavs speaks, with his name on it, I tend to believe him rather than some random unsourced leak that has its own agenda for making the leak.
And it has to be straight from the athlete’s mouth to mean it’s true, right? Got it. ::) Players don’t just leak important trade demands straight from their twitter accounts. It can be from a different source, especially from a far more reputable source than the ex-gm who had quit a year earlier. If the reports weren’t true, I’m sure Kyrie would have denied them when he was being asked about it
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
You’re posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like it’s gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.
The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, and we weren’t on it. That list wasn’t questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didn’t want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.
Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
It was very realistic. IT was significantly hurt and we needed a star. It actually made more sense than a lot of other teams, which is why it happened. And look at the wolves, who he did have on his list. They weren’t realistic at all. They had just signed Teague to a $60 million dollar deal, so even if they wanted to trade him, they couldn’t.
I don’t know why some of you cant deal with the fact that he didn’t always want to come here.
Except that list didn't actually come from Irving. You can say he didn't deny it, but he didn't confirm it either. He talked a lot here about how everything was coming from people that weren't him. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20745983/nba-kyrie-irving-explains-trade-request-more-first-take
When the former general manager of the Cavs speaks, with his name on it, I tend to believe him rather than some random unsourced leak that has its own agenda for making the leak.
And it has to be straight from the athlete’s mouth to mean it’s true, right? Got it. ::) Players don’t just leak important trade demands straight from their twitter accounts. It can be from a different source, especially from a far more reputable source than the ex-gm who had quit a year earlier. If the reports weren’t true, I’m sure Kyrie would have denied them when he was being asked about it
when the trade demand and list were leaked Irving was in China. It didn't come from.him.
Griffin was still with the Cavs until free agency this summer
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What IF Big if...we offered this at the trade deadline and they said okay!
AL and Brown Lakers 1st for Gasol and Kawhi
Gasol's washed up. Don't see how essentially replacing Al with Gasol really helps, even if we get back Kawhi too (at the expense of LAL 1st + Brown)
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
You’re posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like it’s gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.
The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, and we weren’t on it. That list wasn’t questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didn’t want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.
Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
It was very realistic. IT was significantly hurt and we needed a star. It actually made more sense than a lot of other teams, which is why it happened. And look at the wolves, who he did have on his list. They weren’t realistic at all. They had just signed Teague to a $60 million dollar deal, so even if they wanted to trade him, they couldn’t.
I don’t know why some of you cant deal with the fact that he didn’t always want to come here.
Except that list didn't actually come from Irving. You can say he didn't deny it, but he didn't confirm it either. He talked a lot here about how everything was coming from people that weren't him. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20745983/nba-kyrie-irving-explains-trade-request-more-first-take
When the former general manager of the Cavs speaks, with his name on it, I tend to believe him rather than some random unsourced leak that has its own agenda for making the leak.
And it has to be straight from the athlete’s mouth to mean it’s true, right? Got it. ::) Players don’t just leak important trade demands straight from their twitter accounts. It can be from a different source, especially from a far more reputable source than the ex-gm who had quit a year earlier. If the reports weren’t true, I’m sure Kyrie would have denied them when he was being asked about it
when the trade demand and list were leaked Irving was in China. It didn't come from.him.
Griffin was still with the Cavs until free agency this summer
I'm just going to chime in, but it looked like from reports and everything, Boston wasn't on Kyrie's initial list ONLY because he figured Boston already had Isaiah who just had an MVP-caliber season and he didn't think going there would be a possibility.
But when he found out that Ainge and the C's were interested, it looked like he had Boston 2nd or 3rd on his preference list. He may have preferred the Knicks (pairing up with Porzingis) or the Spurs, although the Spurs were going to be difficult because of their salary cap issues (needing to dump quite a bit), and the Wolves had Teague at the time (and Butler). And idk, maybe the Knicks were high on Ntilikina? Or they didn't have enough to offer CLE outside of Porzingis :P ?
That's my $0.02
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
You’re posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like it’s gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.
The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, and we weren’t on it. That list wasn’t questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didn’t want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.
Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
It was very realistic. IT was significantly hurt and we needed a star. It actually made more sense than a lot of other teams, which is why it happened. And look at the wolves, who he did have on his list. They weren’t realistic at all. They had just signed Teague to a $60 million dollar deal, so even if they wanted to trade him, they couldn’t.
I don’t know why some of you cant deal with the fact that he didn’t always want to come here.
Except that list didn't actually come from Irving. You can say he didn't deny it, but he didn't confirm it either. He talked a lot here about how everything was coming from people that weren't him. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20745983/nba-kyrie-irving-explains-trade-request-more-first-take
When the former general manager of the Cavs speaks, with his name on it, I tend to believe him rather than some random unsourced leak that has its own agenda for making the leak.
And it has to be straight from the athlete’s mouth to mean it’s true, right? Got it. ::) Players don’t just leak important trade demands straight from their twitter accounts. It can be from a different source, especially from a far more reputable source than the ex-gm who had quit a year earlier. If the reports weren’t true, I’m sure Kyrie would have denied them when he was being asked about it
when the trade demand and list were leaked Irving was in China. It didn't come from.him.
Griffin was still with the Cavs until free agency this summer
I'm just going to chime in, but it looked like from reports and everything, Boston wasn't on Kyrie's initial list ONLY because he figured Boston already had Isaiah who just had an MVP-caliber season and he didn't think going there would be a possibility.
But when he found out that Ainge and the C's were interested, it looked like he had Boston 2nd or 3rd on his preference list. He may have preferred the Knicks (pairing up with Porzingis) or the Spurs, although the Spurs were going to be difficult because of their salary cap issues (needing to dump quite a bit), and the Wolves had Teague at the time (and Butler). And idk, maybe the Knicks were high on Ntilikina? Or they didn't have enough to offer CLE outside of Porzingis :P ?
That's my $0.02
David Griffin thought Boston was on Irving's list
https://twitter.com/brohrbach/status/894637630192746497/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.celticsblog.com%2F2017%2F8%2F7%2F16109514%2Fdavid-griffin-includes-boston-celtics-on-kyrie-irvings-list-of-desired-teams
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Hes not hurt and never was this season. Pops comments were very crafty when he said he's never seen an injury like his.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
You’re posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like it’s gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.
The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, and we weren’t on it. That list wasn’t questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didn’t want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.
Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
It was very realistic. IT was significantly hurt and we needed a star. It actually made more sense than a lot of other teams, which is why it happened. And look at the wolves, who he did have on his list. They weren’t realistic at all. They had just signed Teague to a $60 million dollar deal, so even if they wanted to trade him, they couldn’t.
I don’t know why some of you cant deal with the fact that he didn’t always want to come here.
Except that list didn't actually come from Irving. You can say he didn't deny it, but he didn't confirm it either. He talked a lot here about how everything was coming from people that weren't him. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20745983/nba-kyrie-irving-explains-trade-request-more-first-take
When the former general manager of the Cavs speaks, with his name on it, I tend to believe him rather than some random unsourced leak that has its own agenda for making the leak.
And it has to be straight from the athlete’s mouth to mean it’s true, right? Got it. ::) Players don’t just leak important trade demands straight from their twitter accounts. It can be from a different source, especially from a far more reputable source than the ex-gm who had quit a year earlier. If the reports weren’t true, I’m sure Kyrie would have denied them when he was being asked about it
when the trade demand and list were leaked Irving was in China. It didn't come from.him.
Griffin was still with the Cavs until free agency this summer
I'm just going to chime in, but it looked like from reports and everything, Boston wasn't on Kyrie's initial list ONLY because he figured Boston already had Isaiah who just had an MVP-caliber season and he didn't think going there would be a possibility.
But when he found out that Ainge and the C's were interested, it looked like he had Boston 2nd or 3rd on his preference list. He may have preferred the Knicks (pairing up with Porzingis) or the Spurs, although the Spurs were going to be difficult because of their salary cap issues (needing to dump quite a bit), and the Wolves had Teague at the time (and Butler). And idk, maybe the Knicks were high on Ntilikina? Or they didn't have enough to offer CLE outside of Porzingis :P ?
That's my $0.02
I think most sensible people agree with this take. Some posters just have blinders on and like to think it happened their way, and their way only. Sorry to burst your guys’ bubble.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
You’re posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like it’s gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.
The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, and we weren’t on it. That list wasn’t questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didn’t want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.
Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
It was very realistic. IT was significantly hurt and we needed a star. It actually made more sense than a lot of other teams, which is why it happened. And look at the wolves, who he did have on his list. They weren’t realistic at all. They had just signed Teague to a $60 million dollar deal, so even if they wanted to trade him, they couldn’t.
I don’t know why some of you cant deal with the fact that he didn’t always want to come here.
Except that list didn't actually come from Irving. You can say he didn't deny it, but he didn't confirm it either. He talked a lot here about how everything was coming from people that weren't him. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20745983/nba-kyrie-irving-explains-trade-request-more-first-take
When the former general manager of the Cavs speaks, with his name on it, I tend to believe him rather than some random unsourced leak that has its own agenda for making the leak.
And it has to be straight from the athlete’s mouth to mean it’s true, right? Got it. ::) Players don’t just leak important trade demands straight from their twitter accounts. It can be from a different source, especially from a far more reputable source than the ex-gm who had quit a year earlier. If the reports weren’t true, I’m sure Kyrie would have denied them when he was being asked about it
when the trade demand and list were leaked Irving was in China. It didn't come from.him.
Griffin was still with the Cavs until free agency this summer
Like I said, players are never going to just demand a trade straight from their twitter account. It always gets leaked and that’s why we follow guys like Woj. To report on what’s happening in the league. It came from reputable sources, and since nobody denied it, most intelligent people would accept that. I’m not going to continue arguing with you when all you say is “Kyrie didn’t say it himself”. You got it buddy. He didn’t say it himself, and that has no impact on whether the report coming from multiple trusted reporters is true.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
You’re posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like it’s gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.
The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, and we weren’t on it. That list wasn’t questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didn’t want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.
Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
It was very realistic. IT was significantly hurt and we needed a star. It actually made more sense than a lot of other teams, which is why it happened. And look at the wolves, who he did have on his list. They weren’t realistic at all. They had just signed Teague to a $60 million dollar deal, so even if they wanted to trade him, they couldn’t.
I don’t know why some of you cant deal with the fact that he didn’t always want to come here.
Except that list didn't actually come from Irving. You can say he didn't deny it, but he didn't confirm it either. He talked a lot here about how everything was coming from people that weren't him. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20745983/nba-kyrie-irving-explains-trade-request-more-first-take
When the former general manager of the Cavs speaks, with his name on it, I tend to believe him rather than some random unsourced leak that has its own agenda for making the leak.
And it has to be straight from the athlete’s mouth to mean it’s true, right? Got it. ::) Players don’t just leak important trade demands straight from their twitter accounts. It can be from a different source, especially from a far more reputable source than the ex-gm who had quit a year earlier. If the reports weren’t true, I’m sure Kyrie would have denied them when he was being asked about it
when the trade demand and list were leaked Irving was in China. It didn't come from.him.
Griffin was still with the Cavs until free agency this summer
Like I said, players are never going to just demand a trade straight from their twitter account. It always gets leaked and that’s why we follow guys like Woj. To report on what’s happening in the league. It came from reputable sources, and since nobody denied it, most intelligent people would accept that. I’m not going to continue arguing with you when all you say is “Kyrie didn’t say it himself”. You got it buddy. He didn’t say it himself, and that has no impact on whether the report coming from multiple trusted reporters is true.
all of the leaks were anti Irving though, especially the way the trade request was leaked. They made Iriving look very bad. If the leaks came from Irving they would have made him look better. So when Irvong does interviews and says things like nothing ever came from me and most of it isn't true, I believe him because they made him look bad.
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all of the leaks were anti Irving though, especially the way the trade request was leaked. They made Iriving look very bad. If the leaks came from Irving they would have made him look better. So when Irvong does interviews and says things like nothing ever came from me and most of it isn't true, I believe him because they made him look bad.
The Cavs are going to do whatever LeBron tells them to do, in this regard. I seriously don't know why Gilbert just does not sell the team to LeBron.
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Kyrie, Hayward, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford.
Rozier and Baynes off the bench.
If healthy, I would bet on that team vs Golden State ;D
Yes, if Kawhi is coming back in return, I'm willing to give up Jaylen Brown, the LaKings pick and additional draft picks plus matching salary fillers. Don't get me wrong, I am really high on JB. But Kawhi is already what we hope JB could become at his ceiling.
Kahwi is also only 26 this year. Assuming his health checks out, we would have an in their prime team of Kyrie, Hayward, Leonard, Tatum, and Horford. Steven's new 'lineup' of death would feature an extreme amount of two way talent.
Of course we are probably overreacting to this. But it's already been reported that Kahwi has decided not to come back this year even though he has been medically cleared. Make of that what you will. It will come out soon enough if Kahwi is really unhappy about his situation. Ainge probably has his ears to the ground. Adding Leonard to the present roster would make us legit contenders next season.
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Brown + LaKings pick + salary fillers for Kawhi.
Let's make it happen!
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Oh by the way if Kawhi joins the Celtics, Lebron might just force his way out West.
Kawhi's career head to head record against Lebron led teams is 5-3.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=Q4xqU
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Brown + LaKings pick + salary fillers for Kawhi.
Let's make it happen!
I doubt that would be enough to get Kyrie especially if the Lakings pick becomes the Kings pick.
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Looks like he's going to be perpetually on the injured list. Shouldn't we be having this discussion on the 76er's forum?
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Brown + LaKings pick + salary fillers for Kawhi.
Let's make it happen!
I doubt that would be enough to get Kyrie especially if the Lakings pick becomes the Kings pick.
We already have Kyrie.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
You’re posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like it’s gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.
The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, and we weren’t on it. That list wasn’t questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didn’t want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.
Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
It was very realistic. IT was significantly hurt and we needed a star. It actually made more sense than a lot of other teams, which is why it happened. And look at the wolves, who he did have on his list. They weren’t realistic at all. They had just signed Teague to a $60 million dollar deal, so even if they wanted to trade him, they couldn’t.
I don’t know why some of you cant deal with the fact that he didn’t always want to come here.
Except that list didn't actually come from Irving. You can say he didn't deny it, but he didn't confirm it either. He talked a lot here about how everything was coming from people that weren't him. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20745983/nba-kyrie-irving-explains-trade-request-more-first-take
When the former general manager of the Cavs speaks, with his name on it, I tend to believe him rather than some random unsourced leak that has its own agenda for making the leak.
And it has to be straight from the athlete’s mouth to mean it’s true, right? Got it. ::) Players don’t just leak important trade demands straight from their twitter accounts. It can be from a different source, especially from a far more reputable source than the ex-gm who had quit a year earlier. If the reports weren’t true, I’m sure Kyrie would have denied them when he was being asked about it
when the trade demand and list were leaked Irving was in China. It didn't come from.him.
Griffin was still with the Cavs until free agency this summer
I'm just going to chime in, but it looked like from reports and everything, Boston wasn't on Kyrie's initial list ONLY because he figured Boston already had Isaiah who just had an MVP-caliber season and he didn't think going there would be a possibility.
But when he found out that Ainge and the C's were interested, it looked like he had Boston 2nd or 3rd on his preference list. He may have preferred the Knicks (pairing up with Porzingis) or the Spurs, although the Spurs were going to be difficult because of their salary cap issues (needing to dump quite a bit), and the Wolves had Teague at the time (and Butler). And idk, maybe the Knicks were high on Ntilikina? Or they didn't have enough to offer CLE outside of Porzingis :P ?
That's my $0.02
David Griffin thought Boston was on Irving's list
https://twitter.com/brohrbach/status/894637630192746497/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.celticsblog.com%2F2017%2F8%2F7%2F16109514%2Fdavid-griffin-includes-boston-celtics-on-kyrie-irvings-list-of-desired-teams
I know that. I watched the video and even created a thread about it back in August (until I realized others had created one so it got merged) :P
But again, he never specified if Boston was high on his list or not. That's kind of my point. We don't really know, and so what I posted is just what my guess is.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs don’t give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they don’t commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. That’s actually exactly what we’re trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We weren’t even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.
If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.
Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.
Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We weren’t on Kyrie’s initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.
So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we can’t trade for him? Give me a break, that’s ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we won’t be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since you’re not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we can’t trade for a superstar.
And no, the spurs don’t care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I don’t know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving. There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasn’t traded.
Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here there’s no reason for him to publicly say he doesn’t want to be here. So it’s pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and that’s to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.
It’s difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know what’s actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we weren’t one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston. David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...
Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?
Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrie’s initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.
I’m not sure if you just can’t accept Boston wasn’t Kyrie’s dream choice 100% of the way or what you’re really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements.
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html
"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."
"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
You’re posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like it’s gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.
The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrie’s trade demand went public, and we weren’t on it. That list wasn’t questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didn’t want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.
Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
It was very realistic. IT was significantly hurt and we needed a star. It actually made more sense than a lot of other teams, which is why it happened. And look at the wolves, who he did have on his list. They weren’t realistic at all. They had just signed Teague to a $60 million dollar deal, so even if they wanted to trade him, they couldn’t.
I don’t know why some of you cant deal with the fact that he didn’t always want to come here.
Except that list didn't actually come from Irving. You can say he didn't deny it, but he didn't confirm it either. He talked a lot here about how everything was coming from people that weren't him. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20745983/nba-kyrie-irving-explains-trade-request-more-first-take
When the former general manager of the Cavs speaks, with his name on it, I tend to believe him rather than some random unsourced leak that has its own agenda for making the leak.
And it has to be straight from the athlete’s mouth to mean it’s true, right? Got it. ::) Players don’t just leak important trade demands straight from their twitter accounts. It can be from a different source, especially from a far more reputable source than the ex-gm who had quit a year earlier. If the reports weren’t true, I’m sure Kyrie would have denied them when he was being asked about it
when the trade demand and list were leaked Irving was in China. It didn't come from.him.
Griffin was still with the Cavs until free agency this summer
I'm just going to chime in, but it looked like from reports and everything, Boston wasn't on Kyrie's initial list ONLY because he figured Boston already had Isaiah who just had an MVP-caliber season and he didn't think going there would be a possibility.
But when he found out that Ainge and the C's were interested, it looked like he had Boston 2nd or 3rd on his preference list. He may have preferred the Knicks (pairing up with Porzingis) or the Spurs, although the Spurs were going to be difficult because of their salary cap issues (needing to dump quite a bit), and the Wolves had Teague at the time (and Butler). And idk, maybe the Knicks were high on Ntilikina? Or they didn't have enough to offer CLE outside of Porzingis :P ?
That's my $0.02
I think most sensible people agree with this take. Some posters just have blinders on and like to think it happened their way, and their way only. Sorry to burst your guys’ bubble.
I mean, to be fair, NO ONE has any idea. Not me, not even you.
As I had stated, it was my guess, or what I thought, not a legit report lol.
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Looks like he's going to be perpetually on the injured list. Shouldn't we be having this discussion on the 76er's forum?
Good one. ;)
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Anyone think we could trade Jaylen brown + Gordo + non LA/SAC picks for Kawhi + salary filler?
I think Tatum is going to be special.
Kyrie, Smart, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford?
Throw in a top center from one of the next 2 drafts and this team is dangerous.
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Anyone think we could trade Jaylen brown + Gordo + non LA/SAC picks for Kawhi + salary filler?
I think Tatum is going to be special.
Kyrie, Smart, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford?
Throw in a top center from one of the next 2 drafts and this team is dangerous.
The Celtics will not trade Gordon Hayward unless he publically demands a trade.
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Anyone think we could trade Jaylen brown + Gordo + non LA/SAC picks for Kawhi + salary filler?
I think Tatum is going to be special.
Kyrie, Smart, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford?
Throw in a top center from one of the next 2 drafts and this team is dangerous.
What? That would be franchise suicide to trade the biggest FA we have ever signed within a year of signing them.
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Anyone think we could trade Jaylen brown + Gordo + non LA/SAC picks for Kawhi + salary filler?
I think Tatum is going to be special.
Kyrie, Smart, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford?
Throw in a top center from one of the next 2 drafts and this team is dangerous.
What? That would be franchise suicide to trade the biggest FA we have ever signed within a year of signing them.
I'd do that for Davis, though. Actually, I'd do any trade that brings us Davis. Sorry, only Brad is off the table.
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I would do Brown, Yabu, Lakers and another pick for Kawhi.
Kyrie, Hayward and Kawhi are the new big 3...plus it would improve our defense.
I bet Ainge has already inquired about his injury and availability.
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How about this :
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3
BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis
SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford
NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams
Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe
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Anyone think we could trade Jaylen brown + Gordo + non LA/SAC picks for Kawhi + salary filler?
I think Tatum is going to be special.
Kyrie, Smart, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford?
Throw in a top center from one of the next 2 drafts and this team is dangerous.
What? That would be franchise suicide to trade the biggest FA we have ever signed within a year of signing them.
Disagree. Top talent would know that we prioritize top talent. Secondary or tertiary free agents might not like it, but do we necessarily need to care about the feelings of players that aren't top 15?
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Anyone think we could trade Jaylen brown + Gordo + non LA/SAC picks for Kawhi + salary filler?
I think Tatum is going to be special.
Kyrie, Smart, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford?
Throw in a top center from one of the next 2 drafts and this team is dangerous.
What? That would be franchise suicide to trade the biggest FA we have ever signed within a year of signing them.
Disagree. Top talent would know that we prioritize top talent. Secondary or tertiary free agents might not like it, but do we necessarily need to care about the feelings of players that aren't top 15?
I was about to write that we would not trade Gordon Hayward, especially under current circumstances, but then I remembered that's what I said about IT before the Kyrie trade.
Anything can happen, especially with Danny Ainge.
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How about this :
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3
BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis
SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford
NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams
Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe
In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.
No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.
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How about this :
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3
BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis
SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford
NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams
Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe
In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.
No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.
I still think Danny would be smart to wait til GS hits their 30's before pushing all of the chips into the middle.
However....
if they're getting AD or Kawhi, they're going to have give up a ton. More than what they gave up for Kyrie, and many here think that CLE got a good return for their top 15 player. Any team wants AD or Kawhi. They're top 6-7 players.
There are a bunch of teams with talented young players and draft picks that may match/beat a Tatum + Horford + LAL/SAC pick trade (and maybe Jaylen too). There are enough GMs that think they could work magic with at least one premier/superstar type that would offer a ton. SA or New Orleans would be foolish not to pillage their trade partner's valuable assets.
Do we want to push all the chips in now for Kawhi/AD, or wait to see if Jaylen/Tatum/LA-SAC pick turn into all stars. I think conventional wisdom would be to get the best player available as soon as you can, because you can't count on tomorrow.
I still think I want to wait. If Tatum becomes close to Pierce and Brown like Jimmy Butler, we should not trade them. I think they are well on their way when looking at both Pierce and Butler's early careers. I guess we need to rely on Danny and Brad's view of these young guys.
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How about this :
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3
BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis
SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford
NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams
Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe
In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.
No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.
I still think Danny would be smart to wait til GS hits their 30's before pushing all of the chips into the middle.
However....
if they're getting AD or Kawhi, they're going to have give up a ton. More than what they gave up for Kyrie, and many here think that CLE got a good return for their top 15 player. Any team wants AD or Kawhi. They're top 6-7 players.
There are a bunch of teams with talented young players and draft picks that may match/beat a Tatum + Horford + LAL/SAC pick trade (and maybe Jaylen too). There are enough GMs that think they could work magic with at least one premier/superstar type that would offer a ton. SA or New Orleans would be foolish not to pillage their trade partner's valuable assets.
Do we want to push all the chips in now for Kawhi/AD, or wait to see if Jaylen/Tatum/LA-SAC pick turn into all stars. I think conventional wisdom would be to get the best player available as soon as you can, because you can't count on tomorrow.
I still think I want to wait. If Tatum becomes close to Pierce and Brown like Jimmy Butler, we should not trade them. I think they are well on their way when looking at both Pierce and Butler's early careers. I guess we need to rely on Danny and Brad's view of these young guys.
Honestly, I'd probably trade 20 year old Pierce and 21 year old Butler for 27 year old Leonard or 25 year old Davis, especially when I already have 26 year old Irving, 28 year old Hayward, and 32 year old Horford on my team. First, Leonard and Davis are both better than Pierce ever was or Butler will ever become. Second, at age 20 and 21 you really don't know how good Pierce and Butler are going to be. Third, I would absolutely want to maximize the chances of winning a title with Irving, Hayward, and Horford, and to do that, I want the guy in his prime, not a 2nd and 3rd year player, who will have significant growing pains.
Note: All ages are for this summer, which is the earliest one of these trades could occur.
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Sooner the better
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For Kwahi I'd be willing to include BOTH Tatum and Brown.
Naah, that's a huge overpay. The main concern with Kawhi right now is his mysterious injury issue which is keeping him from playing. The Spurs team doctors say that he is 'cleared to play' but clearly Kawhi doesn't feel healthy, because he is refusing to play.
The bridges are just about burned with Kahwi and the Spurs as reportedly both sides feel fed up with each other.
We will need to give up value for Kawhi, but look at the trades of the big stars in the NBA in the recent past -- Cousins, Paul George, Chris Paul, and even Kyrie didn't get outrageous asset capital in return for trade.
What's Kawhi gonna fetch for the Spurs, when they know they have to get rid of him, there are still medical questions surrounding him, and Kahwi is refusing to play for them?
Yeah, dial that back a bit. I believe that the Celtics can acquire Leonard in the offseason, but they shouldn't have to heavily overpay either.
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How about this :
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3
BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis
SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford
NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams
Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe
In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.
No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.
I still think Danny would be smart to wait til GS hits their 30's before pushing all of the chips into the middle.
However....
if they're getting AD or Kawhi, they're going to have give up a ton. More than what they gave up for Kyrie, and many here think that CLE got a good return for their top 15 player. Any team wants AD or Kawhi. They're top 6-7 players.
There are a bunch of teams with talented young players and draft picks that may match/beat a Tatum + Horford + LAL/SAC pick trade (and maybe Jaylen too). There are enough GMs that think they could work magic with at least one premier/superstar type that would offer a ton. SA or New Orleans would be foolish not to pillage their trade partner's valuable assets.
Do we want to push all the chips in now for Kawhi/AD, or wait to see if Jaylen/Tatum/LA-SAC pick turn into all stars. I think conventional wisdom would be to get the best player available as soon as you can, because you can't count on tomorrow.
I still think I want to wait. If Tatum becomes close to Pierce and Brown like Jimmy Butler, we should not trade them. I think they are well on their way when looking at both Pierce and Butler's early careers. I guess we need to rely on Danny and Brad's view of these young guys.
Honestly, I'd probably trade 20 year old Pierce and 21 year old Butler for 27 year old Leonard or 25 year old Davis, especially when I already have 26 year old Irving, 28 year old Hayward, and 32 year old Horford on my team. First, Leonard and Davis are both better than Pierce ever was or Butler will ever become. Second, at age 20 and 21 you really don't know how good Pierce and Butler are going to be. Third, I would absolutely want to maximize the chances of winning a title with Irving, Hayward, and Horford, and to do that, I want the guy in his prime, not a 2nd and 3rd year player, who will have significant growing pains.
Note: All ages are for this summer, which is the earliest one of these trades could occur.
ROFL
Kawhi is a career 16.3 PPG scorer.
He has had two really good seasons. Pierce averaged 18 or more PPG for FOURTEEN STRAIGHT SEASONS.
In his ROOKIE SEASON he averaged more PPG than Kawhi's career average.
Kawhi has a long way to go before he proves he has that kind of consistency or drive. The onus is on him to live up to the hype that he can carry an offense himself the way Pierce did.
I know Leonard has been a great player the last few years, but please don't sell a legend like Pierce short, especially on this site.
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How about this :
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3
BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis
SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford
NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams
Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe
In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.
No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.
I still think Danny would be smart to wait til GS hits their 30's before pushing all of the chips into the middle.
However....
if they're getting AD or Kawhi, they're going to have give up a ton. More than what they gave up for Kyrie, and many here think that CLE got a good return for their top 15 player. Any team wants AD or Kawhi. They're top 6-7 players.
There are a bunch of teams with talented young players and draft picks that may match/beat a Tatum + Horford + LAL/SAC pick trade (and maybe Jaylen too). There are enough GMs that think they could work magic with at least one premier/superstar type that would offer a ton. SA or New Orleans would be foolish not to pillage their trade partner's valuable assets.
Do we want to push all the chips in now for Kawhi/AD, or wait to see if Jaylen/Tatum/LA-SAC pick turn into all stars. I think conventional wisdom would be to get the best player available as soon as you can, because you can't count on tomorrow.
I still think I want to wait. If Tatum becomes close to Pierce and Brown like Jimmy Butler, we should not trade them. I think they are well on their way when looking at both Pierce and Butler's early careers. I guess we need to rely on Danny and Brad's view of these young guys.
Honestly, I'd probably trade 20 year old Pierce and 21 year old Butler for 27 year old Leonard or 25 year old Davis, especially when I already have 26 year old Irving, 28 year old Hayward, and 32 year old Horford on my team. First, Leonard and Davis are both better than Pierce ever was or Butler will ever become. Second, at age 20 and 21 you really don't know how good Pierce and Butler are going to be. Third, I would absolutely want to maximize the chances of winning a title with Irving, Hayward, and Horford, and to do that, I want the guy in his prime, not a 2nd and 3rd year player, who will have significant growing pains.
Note: All ages are for this summer, which is the earliest one of these trades could occur.
ROFL
Kawhi is a career 16.3 PPG scorer.
He has had two really good seasons. Pierce averaged 18 or more PPG for FOURTEEN STRAIGHT SEASONS.
In his ROOKIE SEASON he averaged more PPG than Kawhi's career average.
Kawhi has a long way to go before he proves he has that kind of consistency or drive. The onus is on him to live up to the hype that he can carry an offense himself the way Pierce did.
I know Leonard has been a great player the last few years, but please don't sell a legend like Pierce short, especially on this site.
Paul Pierce was never considered a top 5 player in the league. He never finished higher than 11th in MVP voting (did that twice along with a 13th and 14th). He had 1 2nd team All NBA and 3 3rd team All NBA.
Kawhi Leonard in just 6 full seasons has finished 2nd, 3rd, and 10th in MVP voting. Has consecutive as a 1st team All NBA selection, along with 3 1st team All Defense and a 2nd team All Defense. He was voted the best defender in the league twice.
Pierce had a great career, but he was no where near as good at his peak as Leonard is (assuming he comes back and is the same player).
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How about this :
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3
BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis
SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford
NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams
Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe
In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.
No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.
I still think Danny would be smart to wait til GS hits their 30's before pushing all of the chips into the middle.
However....
if they're getting AD or Kawhi, they're going to have give up a ton. More than what they gave up for Kyrie, and many here think that CLE got a good return for their top 15 player. Any team wants AD or Kawhi. They're top 6-7 players.
There are a bunch of teams with talented young players and draft picks that may match/beat a Tatum + Horford + LAL/SAC pick trade (and maybe Jaylen too). There are enough GMs that think they could work magic with at least one premier/superstar type that would offer a ton. SA or New Orleans would be foolish not to pillage their trade partner's valuable assets.
Do we want to push all the chips in now for Kawhi/AD, or wait to see if Jaylen/Tatum/LA-SAC pick turn into all stars. I think conventional wisdom would be to get the best player available as soon as you can, because you can't count on tomorrow.
I still think I want to wait. If Tatum becomes close to Pierce and Brown like Jimmy Butler, we should not trade them. I think they are well on their way when looking at both Pierce and Butler's early careers. I guess we need to rely on Danny and Brad's view of these young guys.
Honestly, I'd probably trade 20 year old Pierce and 21 year old Butler for 27 year old Leonard or 25 year old Davis, especially when I already have 26 year old Irving, 28 year old Hayward, and 32 year old Horford on my team. First, Leonard and Davis are both better than Pierce ever was or Butler will ever become. Second, at age 20 and 21 you really don't know how good Pierce and Butler are going to be. Third, I would absolutely want to maximize the chances of winning a title with Irving, Hayward, and Horford, and to do that, I want the guy in his prime, not a 2nd and 3rd year player, who will have significant growing pains.
Note: All ages are for this summer, which is the earliest one of these trades could occur.
ROFL
Kawhi is a career 16.3 PPG scorer.
He has had two really good seasons. Pierce averaged 18 or more PPG for FOURTEEN STRAIGHT SEASONS.
In his ROOKIE SEASON he averaged more PPG than Kawhi's career average.
Kawhi has a long way to go before he proves he has that kind of consistency or drive. The onus is on him to live up to the hype that he can carry an offense himself the way Pierce did.
I know Leonard has been a great player the last few years, but please don't sell a legend like Pierce short, especially on this site.
Paul Pierce was never considered a top 5 player in the league. He never finished higher than 11th in MVP voting (did that twice along with a 13th and 14th). He had 1 2nd team All NBA and 3 3rd team All NBA.
Kawhi Leonard in just 6 full seasons has finished 2nd, 3rd, and 10th in MVP voting. Has consecutive as a 1st team All NBA selection, along with 3 1st team All Defense and a 2nd team All Defense. He was voted the best defender in the league twice.
Pierce had a great career, but he was no where near as good at his peak as Leonard is (assuming he comes back and is the same player).
Yeah, Vince Carter was way better than Pierce too, remember?
That's what 99% of the media was pushing.
Oops!
Leonard would fly under the radar in PP's era the same way Pierce did. He was always great, he just wasn't flashy enough for the post-Michael Jordan athleticism-obsessed national media. Remember how Michael Vick was practically crowned the greatest player of all time by the NFL media?
It was all a joke. Stern and his corporate buddies were pushing the 1-on-1 athletic iso game HARD.
And there is also the little factor of Leonard playing for Poppovic. Meanwhile Pitino was trading away Joe Johnson and Billups for peanuts.
We were the equivalent of the current Sacramento Kings back then (remember Vin Baker? He was alike a homeless man's Zach Randolph)
Put Leonard on the Kings and see what happens to his prestige. Heck, he can't even get along on one of the best organizations in sports as it is.
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How about this :
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y84krur3
BOS : gets Kawhi L and A Davis
SAS : gets J Brown and A Horford
NOP : gets feelers from both teams and all the picks possible they want from both teams
Kyrie Kawhi Hayward Tatum Davis
Rozier Nader Semi Theis Monroe
In your scenario, the Pelicans get at least Tatum and the Lakers/Sac pick and you can go ahead and add the Mem pick the SAS package. We obviously need to make contracts work, as well.
No, I don't think either is enough, but if we are getting back Kawhi and Davis and are still holding on to Kyrie and Hayward, you might as well just induct DA into the HOF right now. Unfortunately, even if this did happen, having 4 max contracts is basically impossible.
I still think Danny would be smart to wait til GS hits their 30's before pushing all of the chips into the middle.
However....
if they're getting AD or Kawhi, they're going to have give up a ton. More than what they gave up for Kyrie, and many here think that CLE got a good return for their top 15 player. Any team wants AD or Kawhi. They're top 6-7 players.
There are a bunch of teams with talented young players and draft picks that may match/beat a Tatum + Horford + LAL/SAC pick trade (and maybe Jaylen too). There are enough GMs that think they could work magic with at least one premier/superstar type that would offer a ton. SA or New Orleans would be foolish not to pillage their trade partner's valuable assets.
Do we want to push all the chips in now for Kawhi/AD, or wait to see if Jaylen/Tatum/LA-SAC pick turn into all stars. I think conventional wisdom would be to get the best player available as soon as you can, because you can't count on tomorrow.
I still think I want to wait. If Tatum becomes close to Pierce and Brown like Jimmy Butler, we should not trade them. I think they are well on their way when looking at both Pierce and Butler's early careers. I guess we need to rely on Danny and Brad's view of these young guys.
Honestly, I'd probably trade 20 year old Pierce and 21 year old Butler for 27 year old Leonard or 25 year old Davis, especially when I already have 26 year old Irving, 28 year old Hayward, and 32 year old Horford on my team. First, Leonard and Davis are both better than Pierce ever was or Butler will ever become. Second, at age 20 and 21 you really don't know how good Pierce and Butler are going to be. Third, I would absolutely want to maximize the chances of winning a title with Irving, Hayward, and Horford, and to do that, I want the guy in his prime, not a 2nd and 3rd year player, who will have significant growing pains.
Note: All ages are for this summer, which is the earliest one of these trades could occur.
Paul Pierce might've been one of the most underrated stars of his entire generation. To add onto the previous point up top, Pierce has averaged more than 25 PPG 5 times. Leonard has only averaged it once and he isn't exactly the sparkling point of consistency given that he has missed plenty of games in his career, and hasn't been the focal point of an offense until these last 2 years.
That being said Leonard is supremely talented both physically in stature and one of the smartest defensive iq.
He's also won Finals MVP and is younger than Paul Pierce, so many years are ahead of him to catch up. While it's a stretch to say Leonard is that much better than Pierce, I would still take 2007 championship Pierce over Leonard for the game winning shot any day. Pierce is the Truth.. Just like Leonard has given fits, Pierce has been the main rival with LeBron in the East. If we had gotten Garnett sooner or as less unlucky as back then, we would have a lot more banners.
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Yeah I've gotta agree. Rating Leonard above PP, a 10x all-star, and saying he's better than PP ever was is just recency bias. Leonard has to do it much longer and more consistently before you can compare him to a HOFer who has his numbers up in the rafters in the Garden right now.
Sorry dude, I ain't buying it. Just like I'm not buying the hype that Lebron is better than Jordan when he is like 3-5 or 3-6 in Finals when his Airness was 6-0 in Finals.
Come on man. You just look ignorant making statements like that. And who the hell cares about MVP voting until you actually win the award. Kahwi has never won it, coming close doesn't mean anything because there's no prize for 2nd place. Hell Isaiah Thomas finished top 5 in MVP voting last year. He's not better than Kyrie, and he's definitely not better than Paul Pierce.
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Yeah I've gotta agree. Rating Leonard above PP and saying he's better than PP ever was is just recency bias. Leonard has to do it much longer and more consistently before you can compare him to a HOFer who has his numbers up in the rafters in the Garden right now.
Sorry dude, I ain't buying it. Just like I'm not buying the hype that Lebron is better than Jordan when he is like 3-5 or 3-6 in Finals when his Airness was 6-0 in Finals.
Come on man. You just look ignorant making statements like that. And who the hell cares about MVP voting until you actually win the award. Kahwi has never won it, coming close doesn't mean anything because there's no prize for 2nd place. Hell Isaiah Thomas finished top 5 in MVP voting last year. He's not better than Kyrie, and he's definitely not better than Paul Pierce.
No question Pierce had a better career, but only 1 time in his career was Pierce considered a top 10 player in the league (2008-2009 when he gained his only 2nd Team All NBA and finished 7th in MVP voting). Pierce, while a good defender, was never a top 10 defender in the league.
Kawhi Leonard has back to back 1st Team All NBA seasons and finished 2nd and 3rd in MVP voting those seasons. He also finished 3 seasons ago 10th in MVP voting. That year, as well as 2 years ago, he was voted the best defensive player in the league and finished 3rd in that category last year. In other words, for the last 3 years, Kawhi Leonard has been the best defensive player in the entire league and a top 5 player in the league overall. Pierce was never that. It isn't recency bias, it just the fact that Leonard has quite simply been better than Pierce ever was. Pierce did it far longer, but that doesn't change the fact that Leonard has been better.
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Like I said. Recency bias. Another way to put it is that Leonard has -only- put up two 20 ppg seasons in his entire career. Jimmy Butler who has put up 4 straight 20 point+ seasons and is also regularly a member of the all-defensive team has proven much more than Leonard. And I'm not putting Butler above Paul Pierce yet.
Leonard also has dealt with serious injury issues his entire career including this year. Outside of his two 20ppg seasons, he has never played more than 70 games in an entire season. (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01.html) Answer the question than, so is IT a better player than PP because he was top 5 in MVP voting and PP was not? Answer is obviously no. Question answered.
Leonard has a lot of upside left in his game if he can come back the player that he was before the injury. IT obviously couldn't pull that off. But as of right now, Leonard has not done enough to prove that he is a greater player than PP was. Your hyperbole might sound credible to your own ears, but I'm not buying what you're selling. Come back to me in 5 years if Leonard can manage to put up the same or similar numbers that he did in 2016-17 over the next 5 years, then I'll reevaluate how worthy he is to be compared to a Hall of Famer.
Kawhi Leonard has back to back 1st Team All NBA seasons and finished 2nd and 3rd in MVP voting those seasons. He also finished 3 seasons ago 10th in MVP voting. That year, as well as 2 years ago, he was voted the best defensive player in the league and finished 3rd in that category last year. In other words, for the last 3 years, Kawhi Leonard has been the best defensive player in the entire league and a top 5 player in the league overall. Pierce was never that. It isn't recency bias, it just the fact that Leonard has quite simply been better than Pierce ever was. Pierce did it far longer, but that doesn't change the fact that Leonard has been better.
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Like I said. Recency bias. Another way to put it is that Leonard has -only- put up two 20 ppg seasons in his entire career. Jimmy Butler who has put up 4 straight 20 point+ seasons and is also regularly a member of the all-defensive team has proven much more than Leonard. And I'm not putting Butler above Paul Pierce yet.
Leonard also has dealt with serious injury issues his entire career including this year. Outside of his two 20ppg seasons, he has never played more than 70 games in an entire season. (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01.html) Answer the question than, so is IT a better player than PP because he was top 5 in MVP voting and PP was not? Answer is obviously no. Question answered.
Leonard has a lot of upside left in his game if he can come back the player that he was before the injury. IT obviously couldn't pull that off. But as of right now, Leonard has not done enough to prove that he is a greater player than PP was. Your hyperbole might sound credible to your own ears, but I'm not buying what you're selling. Come back to me in 5 years if Leonard can manage to put up the same or similar numbers that he did in 2016-17 over the next 5 years, then I'll reevaluate how worthy he is to be compared to a Hall of Famer.
Kawhi Leonard has back to back 1st Team All NBA seasons and finished 2nd and 3rd in MVP voting those seasons. He also finished 3 seasons ago 10th in MVP voting. That year, as well as 2 years ago, he was voted the best defensive player in the league and finished 3rd in that category last year. In other words, for the last 3 years, Kawhi Leonard has been the best defensive player in the entire league and a top 5 player in the league overall. Pierce was never that. It isn't recency bias, it just the fact that Leonard has quite simply been better than Pierce ever was. Pierce did it far longer, but that doesn't change the fact that Leonard has been better.
IT had a higher offensive peak then Pierce did, but IT is a terrible defender. That said, if IT had 3 straight seasons where he was the best defender in the league and a top 5 player in the league, then yeah I'd say he had a higher peak and was better than Pierce, especially if IT was still just 26 years old. Kawhi Leonard's last 3 seasons were better than any 3 seasons in Paul Pierce's career (not consecutive, any 3 seasons period). That is essentially a fact as there are no real metrics from which that can be disputed.
A longer career doesn't make a player better, it just means they had a longer career. I mean was Karl Malone or Kobe Bryant better than Michael Jordan, just because they played longer, had more seasons of 20 ppg, etc.
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You really picked the wrong guy to use as an example. MJ played 15 years in the league, never averaged less than 20ppg even in the twilight of his career, posted 8 seasons of 30+ ppg, and won 6 championships.
I'm well within my rights to demand to see more before I become a believer in Leonard who has had only 2 good seasons in the NBA.
Just take a look at Dwight Howard for instance. After 4 really good 20 ppg seasons, one might have assumed he was going to become an all time great big man in the mold of Shaq or Olajawun. But after he left Orlando he was never able to maintain that pace. (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html)
When all is said and done I would believe that a player like Patrick Ewing, who never won an MVP btw, had a greater career and was a greater player than Howard. (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ewingpa01.html)
So yes, Leonard has the potential to be great, but he hasn't done -nearly- enough to be considered better than a proven Hall of Famer in my book. I'm not going to try to change your mind on this and I respect your viewpoint, but I remain unconvinced on Leonard being a greater player than Pierce at this point in time. Like I said, he has to show me at least 5 more great years before I'd even consider rating him at that level as a player.
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Even Derek Jeter's gold gloves think it's funny that voting contests are carrying so much weight with some posters in this discussion. They're being played like trump cards.
For the record, I think these last couple of years Leonard has been Top 5 elite, which is better than PP ever was. But let's see what he does the next 10 years or so.
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https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Paul+Pierce&player_id1_select=Paul+Pierce&y1=2005&player_id1=piercpa01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kawhi+Leonard&player_id2_select=Kawhi+Leonard&y2=2018&player_id2=leonaka01&idx=players
First 7 years they look pretty similar
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Even Derek Jeter's gold gloves think it's funny that voting contests are carrying so much weight with some posters in this discussion. They're being played like trump cards.
For the record, I think these last couple of years Leonard has been Top 5 elite, which is better than PP ever was. But let's see what he does the next 10 years or so.
"These last couple years"
I'd say last year.
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Like I said. Recency bias. Another way to put it is that Leonard has -only- put up two 20 ppg seasons in his entire career. Jimmy Butler who has put up 4 straight 20 point+ seasons and is also regularly a member of the all-defensive team has proven much more than Leonard. And I'm not putting Butler above Paul Pierce yet.
Leonard also has dealt with serious injury issues his entire career including this year. Outside of his two 20ppg seasons, he has never played more than 70 games in an entire season. (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01.html) Answer the question than, so is IT a better player than PP because he was top 5 in MVP voting and PP was not? Answer is obviously no. Question answered.
Leonard has a lot of upside left in his game if he can come back the player that he was before the injury. IT obviously couldn't pull that off. But as of right now, Leonard has not done enough to prove that he is a greater player than PP was. Your hyperbole might sound credible to your own ears, but I'm not buying what you're selling. Come back to me in 5 years if Leonard can manage to put up the same or similar numbers that he did in 2016-17 over the next 5 years, then I'll reevaluate how worthy he is to be compared to a Hall of Famer.
Kawhi Leonard has back to back 1st Team All NBA seasons and finished 2nd and 3rd in MVP voting those seasons. He also finished 3 seasons ago 10th in MVP voting. That year, as well as 2 years ago, he was voted the best defensive player in the league and finished 3rd in that category last year. In other words, for the last 3 years, Kawhi Leonard has been the best defensive player in the entire league and a top 5 player in the league overall. Pierce was never that. It isn't recency bias, it just the fact that Leonard has quite simply been better than Pierce ever was. Pierce did it far longer, but that doesn't change the fact that Leonard has been better.
IT had a higher offensive peak then Pierce did, but IT is a terrible defender. That said, if IT had 3 straight seasons where he was the best defender in the league and a top 5 player in the league, then yeah I'd say he had a higher peak and was better than Pierce, especially if IT was still just 26 years old. Kawhi Leonard's last 3 seasons were better than any 3 seasons in Paul Pierce's career (not consecutive, any 3 seasons period). That is essentially a fact as there are no real metrics from which that can be disputed.
A longer career doesn't make a player better, it just means they had a longer career. I mean was Karl Malone or Kobe Bryant better than Michael Jordan, just because they played longer, had more seasons of 20 ppg, etc.
IDK if Leonards 17/7/3 season where he didnt even make an all star game was better than Pierce's peak.
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Like I said. Recency bias. Another way to put it is that Leonard has -only- put up two 20 ppg seasons in his entire career. Jimmy Butler who has put up 4 straight 20 point+ seasons and is also regularly a member of the all-defensive team has proven much more than Leonard. And I'm not putting Butler above Paul Pierce yet.
Leonard also has dealt with serious injury issues his entire career including this year. Outside of his two 20ppg seasons, he has never played more than 70 games in an entire season. (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01.html) Answer the question than, so is IT a better player than PP because he was top 5 in MVP voting and PP was not? Answer is obviously no. Question answered.
Leonard has a lot of upside left in his game if he can come back the player that he was before the injury. IT obviously couldn't pull that off. But as of right now, Leonard has not done enough to prove that he is a greater player than PP was. Your hyperbole might sound credible to your own ears, but I'm not buying what you're selling. Come back to me in 5 years if Leonard can manage to put up the same or similar numbers that he did in 2016-17 over the next 5 years, then I'll reevaluate how worthy he is to be compared to a Hall of Famer.
Kawhi Leonard has back to back 1st Team All NBA seasons and finished 2nd and 3rd in MVP voting those seasons. He also finished 3 seasons ago 10th in MVP voting. That year, as well as 2 years ago, he was voted the best defensive player in the league and finished 3rd in that category last year. In other words, for the last 3 years, Kawhi Leonard has been the best defensive player in the entire league and a top 5 player in the league overall. Pierce was never that. It isn't recency bias, it just the fact that Leonard has quite simply been better than Pierce ever was. Pierce did it far longer, but that doesn't change the fact that Leonard has been better.
IT had a higher offensive peak then Pierce did, but IT is a terrible defender. That said, if IT had 3 straight seasons where he was the best defender in the league and a top 5 player in the league, then yeah I'd say he had a higher peak and was better than Pierce, especially if IT was still just 26 years old. Kawhi Leonard's last 3 seasons were better than any 3 seasons in Paul Pierce's career (not consecutive, any 3 seasons period). That is essentially a fact as there are no real metrics from which that can be disputed.
A longer career doesn't make a player better, it just means they had a longer career. I mean was Karl Malone or Kobe Bryant better than Michael Jordan, just because they played longer, had more seasons of 20 ppg, etc.
IDK if Leonards 17/7/3 season where he didnt even make an all star game was better than Pierce's peak.
He was the best defender in the league though and finished 10th in MVP voting (he was also 7th in box plus/minus). That said, I did mean it as take his last 3 seasons and then take Pierce's best 3 seasons and compare them (I realize I probably didn't make that as clear as I should have). Either way, when you couple that he was the best defender in the league, I think you can at least make an argument for that season as being better than Pierce's best season (which was probably 08/09 which was not his best statistical season).
and BTW, Pierce played a lot more minutes than Leonard which absolutely alters the totals. I get there is merit in playing more, but it does make it harder to truly compare impact, especially since everyone in the league plays a lot less minutes today. I mean in 05/06, 9 players played over 40 minutes a game. Rafer Alston and Mike Bibby were tied for 19th at 38.6 mpg. Giannis is leading the league this year with 37.2 mpg and the only other players over 37 are Butler and James. Devin Booker is 20th this year at 34.4 mpg. It was just a different type of game when Pierce was in his prime.
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a question we haven't answered, Would Kawhi have success if he wasn't coached by Pop? We know he can defense lights out, he is improving his scoring but is he taking his team to the Western Conference Finals last year and potentially winning that series if he wasn't hurt.
I know we could point to Stevens, but the reality is that Stevens doesn't have the track record remotely close to Pop in terms of coaching a team into the final 4
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a question we haven't answered, Would Kawhi have success if he wasn't coached by Pop? We know he can defense lights out, he is improving his scoring but is he taking his team to the Western Conference Finals last year and potentially winning that series if he wasn't hurt.
I know we could point to Stevens, but the reality is that Stevens doesn't have the track record remotely close to Pop in terms of coaching a team into the final 4
If you are asking if Leonard could thrive with the Celtics, I would say, -if his health checks out-, yes, I don't see any reason why Stevens would be unable to draw out the best in Kahwi. Stevens has improved the careers and trajectories of so many players coached by him already.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have Leonard on this team, as I think he would improve our overall talent level and get us that much closer to winning a championship. I just feel that anointing Kawhi as a HOFer after 2 good seasons is vastly premature.
And if you asked me to choose between giving up the farm for Davis or Leonard, I'd pick Davis every time. But Leonard might be more obtainable.
We'll see what happens in terms of a trade in the offseason but it looks like Leonard has agreed to return to play. He is starting to practice with the Spurs now and media is reporting he might be playing for them again in maybe 2 weeks if he feels good.
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Yabu make Pop a good Spur.
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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since he’s going to be a free agent. Oh wait, he’s under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah that’s right. He can’t choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.
Why all the hate? Someone saying they heard something does not necessarily mean they believe it's a fact.
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... Would Kawhi have success if he wasn't coached by Pop?
Would Tom Brady be the GOAT without Bill Belichick & his "system"?
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... Would Kawhi have success if he wasn't coached by Pop?
Would Tom Brady be the GOAT without Bill Belichick & his "system"?
500+ yards in a Superbowl while BB showed his ego by benching Malcolm Butler for no good reason yah Tom Brady is the GOAT and it's not the "system".
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... Would Kawhi have success if he wasn't coached by Pop?
Would Tom Brady be the GOAT without Bill Belichick & his "system"?
500+ yards in a Superbowl while BB showed his ego by benching Malcolm Butler for no good reason yah Tom Brady is the GOAT and it's not the "system".
I'd forgotten how frustrating the Pats were that day
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Would Kawhi have success if he wasn't coached by Pop?
Yes! All the tools are there and his mentality on D, is usually something that is natural not honed by tons of coaching. Guys either commit or they don't. Imagine having Timmy D as a peer helped too. Pop is a great coach, but spurs have a system of picking guys who will buy in. The ability is already there, though.