Do Danny's moves this summer indicate he thinks we are ready?

[hpantazo]

No.  I think the opposite actually.  If Danny thought the team was truly ready to win a title he wouldn't have hesitated to go into the luxury tax and use all the exceptions.  The fact that he avoided the tax like the plague says to me that he doesn't think the team is truly ready to win a title and thus he didn't want to start the tax clock ticking on a team that wasn't likely to win the title.  He isn't giving up on the season and the Celtics clearly have a very good shot at coming out of the East, but when you have exceptions and there are players out there that could help, and you don't use them, that says a lot.

Which players where out there this summer that you think would have been worth going into the luxury tax for?

If I thought this team could realistically win a title, any number of players could have been added that would have strengthened the bench, especially at the PF and C positions.  Ilyasova comes immediately to mind.  Heck bringing back Amir Johnson would have made sense or going with Lopez, McDermott or countless other guys that are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th big on this team (not to mention Cousins, a simple phone call and he might have been a Celtic).  Getting another great shooter for the bench like Belinelli or Curry would have made a lot of sense as well. 

But you see, when you aren't all that close, those players aren't worth signing.  That is the point I was making.

Even if money and luxury tax were not an issue, I just don't see any of those guys getting regular minutes under Stevens with the depth we already have.

Lopez would be used the way Monroe was last year due to his defensive limitations. Stevens relies on centers that can rotate quickly and hit threes. Lopez would not play over Theiss and Baynes.  Amir Johnson was on his last legs when he was here before. He's even more useless now. Stevens had a hard time keeping him in back then.

Ilyasova, McDermott and Belinelli would not get minutes in our crowded rotation either. Who would they take minutes from? Tatum, Hayward and Morris, or Smart, Brown and Rozier? Is that worth going over the cap for? Would that make any difference in the playoffs when rotations generally get even shorter?

I think Ainge is fully willing to use the exceptions we have left and go into the luxury tax if a player worth using it on becomes available. It might happen after the trade deadline.

Ilyasova is a PF.  He probably is the 2nd best big man on the team if he was signed.  He is the perfect stretch 4 for this team.  He was absolutely available at a reasonable price.  He is exactly the type of player that would be in the regular rotation with an important role.  But he isn't going to elevate any team very much, so you don't sign him and go into the luxury tax to sign him.

We all know by now, Stevens doesn't run the team that way. In his mind, there are no 'power forwards'. There are bigs, swings, and ball handlers. He uses one big, who can rotate well and shoot from the outside, and many swings. Ersan would be a swing, as he could never function defensively as a big, and would not take minutes from the other swings on this squad as his defense and perimeter shooting are inferior to the other rotation swings.

so Horford is a swing? I mean him and Baynes started and played a good amount of minutes together?

Such an interesting discussion.

Who are Boston's swings? Morris, Ojeleye, and Tatum.

I don't think that Tatum is getting his due for his defensive versatility. He guards up and down, uses his length, and his anticipation is beyond his years. On offense he's a matchup nightmare whether he's a wing or a swing. That helps his defense because you can't put a slow big on him. He's as effective at wing as swing - that's huge for next year, because you can put Brown on the toughest wing cover to save Hayward's energy for the fourth.

By far, the most used lineup last season was with two bigs, Tatum and Brown at wings, and either Irving or Rozier. But big/swing lineups with either Morris or Tatum at swing were next.

For Morris it was a "tale of two seasons", coming back too early; and only after being shut down the second time was he effective. Later in the year, he found himself at wing in two-big lineups, including a fair number of minutes in a super-sized lineup of Baynes/Horford/Morris/Tatum/Rozier. But by far his most minutes were at swing.

Like Brad Stevens, I'm "A big Semi guy". Like Morris, Ojeleye played most of him minutes at swing, taking advantage of injuries to stay in the rotation. At 241, he's the biggest of the swings, has great lower body strength - but also the quickness of a quick wing. We saw intriguing flashes of skill with the ball and finishing last year. Players usually show their biggest improvement after year 1, so we have good reason to hope that he really shows something this year.

So, what about adding Ilyasova?

First of all, I think he's a better defensive player than given credit for in this thread. He did a good job on Horford in the playoffs, for one thing. My scouting is basically: good all-around player with no glaring weaknesses and no outstanding strengths. I think that Moranis' idea of signing him for a championship run is a sound idea. He's reliable, consistent; as the old cliche goes, "you know what you're going to get." Low mistakes, spreads the floor, stays in his lane.

On the other hand, isn't the position filled already? With Hayward returning, Tatum figures to get more of a look at swing; swing is pretty much what Morris does on the team; and Ojeleye, with his ample promise and cost control, makes for an ideal backup. On the whole, I'd say that the "veteran bench player" that you'd be getting by signing Ilyasova is already on the team in Marcus Morris.

Pretty much, and Morris is a much better shot creator who knows our system and does a good job of guarding Lebron to boot.

[Eddie20]

No.  I think the opposite actually.  If Danny thought the team was truly ready to win a title he wouldn't have hesitated to go into the luxury tax and use all the exceptions.  The fact that he avoided the tax like the plague says to me that he doesn't think the team is truly ready to win a title and thus he didn't want to start the tax clock ticking on a team that wasn't likely to win the title.  He isn't giving up on the season and the Celtics clearly have a very good shot at coming out of the East, but when you have exceptions and there are players out there that could help, and you don't use them, that says a lot.

Which players where out there this summer that you think would have been worth going into the luxury tax for?

If I thought this team could realistically win a title, any number of players could have been added that would have strengthened the bench, especially at the PF and C positions.  Ilyasova comes immediately to mind.  Heck bringing back Amir Johnson would have made sense or going with Lopez, McDermott or countless other guys that are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th big on this team (not to mention Cousins, a simple phone call and he might have been a Celtic).  Getting another great shooter for the bench like Belinelli or Curry would have made a lot of sense as well. 

But you see, when you aren't all that close, those players aren't worth signing.  That is the point I was making.

Even if money and luxury tax were not an issue, I just don't see any of those guys getting regular minutes under Stevens with the depth we already have.

Lopez would be used the way Monroe was last year due to his defensive limitations. Stevens relies on centers that can rotate quickly and hit threes. Lopez would not play over Theiss and Baynes.  Amir Johnson was on his last legs when he was here before. He's even more useless now. Stevens had a hard time keeping him in back then.

Ilyasova, McDermott and Belinelli would not get minutes in our crowded rotation either. Who would they take minutes from? Tatum, Hayward and Morris, or Smart, Brown and Rozier? Is that worth going over the cap for? Would that make any difference in the playoffs when rotations generally get even shorter?

I think Ainge is fully willing to use the exceptions we have left and go into the luxury tax if a player worth using it on becomes available. It might happen after the trade deadline.

Ilyasova is a PF.  He probably is the 2nd best big man on the team if he was signed.  He is the perfect stretch 4 for this team.  He was absolutely available at a reasonable price.  He is exactly the type of player that would be in the regular rotation with an important role.  But he isn't going to elevate any team very much, so you don't sign him and go into the luxury tax to sign him.

We all know by now, Stevens doesn't run the team that way. In his mind, there are no 'power forwards'. There are bigs, swings, and ball handlers. He uses one big, who can rotate well and shoot from the outside, and many swings. Ersan would be a swing, as he could never function defensively as a big, and would not take minutes from the other swings on this squad as his defense and perimeter shooting are inferior to the other rotation swings.

so Horford is a swing? I mean him and Baynes started and played a good amount of minutes together?

Sometimes Stevens goes with two 'bigs'. They are interchangeable , neither one is a 'center' or 'power forward' when they play together.  Both of them were shooting threes and switching well on defense. Baynes and Horford both shut down Embiid in the playoffs and were nailing three pointers for example. Theiss can do the same. When Stevens goes smaller, he uses one big and adds another swing, like Morris, Tatum, Hayward, Brown, or when he goes super small, he adds another ball handler, like when he would add Rozier or Larkin instead of a big. There's really no need for Ersan.

This was a team that was within a game of going to the Finals with basically our bench. Going over the cap to add guys who won't get minutes on this super deep roster wont help. This roster is tailor-made for Stevens coaching style. Anyone you consider adding has to be within the perspective of 'do they fit on Stevens system'? Then, are they good enough to take minutes away from any of the other guys already on the roster?

There's already going to be a crunch to keep guys who played 30+ minutes a game during the playoffs last season happy when we add Kyrie, Hayward and Theiss back in the mix. Taking even more minutes away from guys like Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Smart, Baynes, and Morris for players who don't make us better is bad management.

Good post, but the question didn't even need such a detailed response. He knows Horford is a big, but he's just trying his best to do a LarBrd sky-is-falling schtick. He gets an A for effort, but an F for execution when the names he mentions are concrete footed Lopez, the corpse of Amir, and journeymen Ilyasova.

[Hoopvortex]

No.  I think the opposite actually.  If Danny thought the team was truly ready to win a title he wouldn't have hesitated to go into the luxury tax and use all the exceptions.  The fact that he avoided the tax like the plague says to me that he doesn't think the team is truly ready to win a title and thus he didn't want to start the tax clock ticking on a team that wasn't likely to win the title.  He isn't giving up on the season and the Celtics clearly have a very good shot at coming out of the East, but when you have exceptions and there are players out there that could help, and you don't use them, that says a lot.

Which players where out there this summer that you think would have been worth going into the luxury tax for?

If I thought this team could realistically win a title, any number of players could have been added that would have strengthened the bench, especially at the PF and C positions.  Ilyasova comes immediately to mind.  Heck bringing back Amir Johnson would have made sense or going with Lopez, McDermott or countless other guys that are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th big on this team (not to mention Cousins, a simple phone call and he might have been a Celtic).  Getting another great shooter for the bench like Belinelli or Curry would have made a lot of sense as well. 

But you see, when you aren't all that close, those players aren't worth signing.  That is the point I was making.

Even if money and luxury tax were not an issue, I just don't see any of those guys getting regular minutes under Stevens with the depth we already have.

Lopez would be used the way Monroe was last year due to his defensive limitations. Stevens relies on centers that can rotate quickly and hit threes. Lopez would not play over Theiss and Baynes.  Amir Johnson was on his last legs when he was here before. He's even more useless now. Stevens had a hard time keeping him in back then.

Ilyasova, McDermott and Belinelli would not get minutes in our crowded rotation either. Who would they take minutes from? Tatum, Hayward and Morris, or Smart, Brown and Rozier? Is that worth going over the cap for? Would that make any difference in the playoffs when rotations generally get even shorter?

I think Ainge is fully willing to use the exceptions we have left and go into the luxury tax if a player worth using it on becomes available. It might happen after the trade deadline.

Ilyasova is a PF.  He probably is the 2nd best big man on the team if he was signed.  He is the perfect stretch 4 for this team.  He was absolutely available at a reasonable price.  He is exactly the type of player that would be in the regular rotation with an important role.  But he isn't going to elevate any team very much, so you don't sign him and go into the luxury tax to sign him.

We all know by now, Stevens doesn't run the team that way. In his mind, there are no 'power forwards'. There are bigs, swings, and ball handlers. He uses one big, who can rotate well and shoot from the outside, and many swings. Ersan would be a swing, as he could never function defensively as a big, and would not take minutes from the other swings on this squad as his defense and perimeter shooting are inferior to the other rotation swings.

so Horford is a swing? I mean him and Baynes started and played a good amount of minutes together?

Sometimes Stevens goes with two 'bigs'.

Last year, he mostly did that. To be really precise, he mostly played two bigs when Baynes was in. When Baynes was on the bench, he almost always played a big and a swing.

When Stevens goes smaller, he uses one big and adds another swing, like Morris, Tatum, Hayward, Brown, or when he goes super small, he adds another ball handler, like when he would add Rozier or Larkin instead of a big.

I sort of doubt that we'll see Hayward at swing, and I'm sure that we won't see Brown there. But your main point is a good one.

Your second point is also a good one; Larkin mostly shared the floor with Rozier (as far as I can tell, Larkin was never on the floor with Kyrie... interesting).

[SHAQATTACK]

crickets ...

waiting the hardest part 

[Hoopvortex]

No.  I think the opposite actually.  If Danny thought the team was truly ready to win a title he wouldn't have hesitated to go into the luxury tax and use all the exceptions.  The fact that he avoided the tax like the plague says to me that he doesn't think the team is truly ready to win a title and thus he didn't want to start the tax clock ticking on a team that wasn't likely to win the title.  He isn't giving up on the season and the Celtics clearly have a very good shot at coming out of the East, but when you have exceptions and there are players out there that could help, and you don't use them, that says a lot.

Which players where out there this summer that you think would have been worth going into the luxury tax for?

If I thought this team could realistically win a title, any number of players could have been added that would have strengthened the bench, especially at the PF and C positions.  Ilyasova comes immediately to mind.  Heck bringing back Amir Johnson would have made sense or going with Lopez, McDermott or countless other guys that are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th big on this team (not to mention Cousins, a simple phone call and he might have been a Celtic).  Getting another great shooter for the bench like Belinelli or Curry would have made a lot of sense as well. 

But you see, when you aren't all that close, those players aren't worth signing.  That is the point I was making.

Even if money and luxury tax were not an issue, I just don't see any of those guys getting regular minutes under Stevens with the depth we already have.

Lopez would be used the way Monroe was last year due to his defensive limitations. Stevens relies on centers that can rotate quickly and hit threes. Lopez would not play over Theiss and Baynes.  Amir Johnson was on his last legs when he was here before. He's even more useless now. Stevens had a hard time keeping him in back then.

Ilyasova, McDermott and Belinelli would not get minutes in our crowded rotation either. Who would they take minutes from? Tatum, Hayward and Morris, or Smart, Brown and Rozier? Is that worth going over the cap for? Would that make any difference in the playoffs when rotations generally get even shorter?

I think Ainge is fully willing to use the exceptions we have left and go into the luxury tax if a player worth using it on becomes available. It might happen after the trade deadline.

Ilyasova is a PF.  He probably is the 2nd best big man on the team if he was signed.  He is the perfect stretch 4 for this team.  He was absolutely available at a reasonable price.  He is exactly the type of player that would be in the regular rotation with an important role.  But he isn't going to elevate any team very much, so you don't sign him and go into the luxury tax to sign him.

We all know by now, Stevens doesn't run the team that way. In his mind, there are no 'power forwards'. There are bigs, swings, and ball handlers. He uses one big, who can rotate well and shoot from the outside, and many swings. Ersan would be a swing, as he could never function defensively as a big, and would not take minutes from the other swings on this squad as his defense and perimeter shooting are inferior to the other rotation swings.

so Horford is a swing? I mean him and Baynes started and played a good amount of minutes together?

Such an interesting discussion.

Who are Boston's swings? Morris, Ojeleye, and Tatum.

I don't think that Tatum is getting his due for his defensive versatility. He guards up and down, uses his length, and his anticipation is beyond his years. On offense he's a matchup nightmare whether he's a wing or a swing. That helps his defense because you can't put a slow big on him. He's as effective at wing as swing - that's huge for next year, because you can put Brown on the toughest wing cover to save Hayward's energy for the fourth.

By far, the most used lineup last season was with two bigs, Tatum and Brown at wings, and either Irving or Rozier. But big/swing lineups with either Morris or Tatum at swing were next.

For Morris it was a "tale of two seasons", coming back too early; and only after being shut down the second time was he effective. Later in the year, he found himself at wing in two-big lineups, including a fair number of minutes in a super-sized lineup of Baynes/Horford/Morris/Tatum/Rozier. But by far his most minutes were at swing.

Like Brad Stevens, I'm "A big Semi guy". Like Morris, Ojeleye played most of him minutes at swing, taking advantage of injuries to stay in the rotation. At 241, he's the biggest of the swings, has great lower body strength - but also the quickness of a quick wing. We saw intriguing flashes of skill with the ball and finishing last year. Players usually show their biggest improvement after year 1, so we have good reason to hope that he really shows something this year.

So, what about adding Ilyasova?

First of all, I think he's a better defensive player than given credit for in this thread. He did a good job on Horford in the playoffs, for one thing. My scouting is basically: good all-around player with no glaring weaknesses and no outstanding strengths. I think that Moranis' idea of signing him for a championship run is a sound idea. He's reliable, consistent; as the old cliche goes, "you know what you're going to get." Low mistakes, spreads the floor, stays in his lane.

On the other hand, isn't the position filled already? With Hayward returning, Tatum figures to get more of a look at swing; swing is pretty much what Morris does on the team; and Ojeleye, with his ample promise and cost control, makes for an ideal backup. On the whole, I'd say that the "veteran bench player" that you'd be getting by signing Ilyasova is already on the team in Marcus Morris.

Pretty much, and Morris is a much better shot creator who knows our system and does a good job of guarding Lebron to boot.

Good point about Morris' shot creation, at least for himself. That's a skill that Ersan mostly doesn't have, as good a complementary player as he is.

[bogg]

Ilyasova is a PF.  He probably is the 2nd best big man on the team if he was signed.  He is the perfect stretch 4 for this team.  He was absolutely available at a reasonable price.  He is exactly the type of player that would be in the regular rotation with an important role.  But he isn't going to elevate any team very much, so you don't sign him and go into the luxury tax to sign him.

You do know that as of right now Boston's already into the luxury tax, and by rule couldn't outbid Milwaukee for Illyasova even if they had wanted to, right?

That's to say nothing of the fact that Milwaukee had more playing time available for him. The truth is that there's little-to-nothing that Illyasova does that you can't already get out of either Morris or Theis, compounded by the fact that Morris is likely the better 4 while Theis is the better 5. There isn't an easy 20 minutes a night to be found for him, while there is in Milwaukee.

However, this all ignores the real issue with your line of thinking - Illyasova wasn't some guy who hung around on the market well into the summer that Boston could have taken a chance on if they felt like it. Milwaukee came right out the gates on July 1 (meaning the deal was worked out in June) committing their non-tax MLE to him and hard-capped themselves in the process. There's zero chance Ainge would have made a redundant bench big priority 1A going into this season, hard-capped himself to pay him, and handcuffed the team in any trade talks for the full season while establishing an easy-to-identify "beat this and he's yours" benchmark for Smart's restricted free agency. 

[gpap]

I'd say we are ready.

If not now, then when?

[Moranis]

No.  I think the opposite actually.  If Danny thought the team was truly ready to win a title he wouldn't have hesitated to go into the luxury tax and use all the exceptions.  The fact that he avoided the tax like the plague says to me that he doesn't think the team is truly ready to win a title and thus he didn't want to start the tax clock ticking on a team that wasn't likely to win the title.  He isn't giving up on the season and the Celtics clearly have a very good shot at coming out of the East, but when you have exceptions and there are players out there that could help, and you don't use them, that says a lot.

Which players where out there this summer that you think would have been worth going into the luxury tax for?

If I thought this team could realistically win a title, any number of players could have been added that would have strengthened the bench, especially at the PF and C positions.  Ilyasova comes immediately to mind.  Heck bringing back Amir Johnson would have made sense or going with Lopez, McDermott or countless other guys that are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th big on this team (not to mention Cousins, a simple phone call and he might have been a Celtic).  Getting another great shooter for the bench like Belinelli or Curry would have made a lot of sense as well. 

But you see, when you aren't all that close, those players aren't worth signing.  That is the point I was making.

Even if money and luxury tax were not an issue, I just don't see any of those guys getting regular minutes under Stevens with the depth we already have.

Lopez would be used the way Monroe was last year due to his defensive limitations. Stevens relies on centers that can rotate quickly and hit threes. Lopez would not play over Theiss and Baynes.  Amir Johnson was on his last legs when he was here before. He's even more useless now. Stevens had a hard time keeping him in back then.

Ilyasova, McDermott and Belinelli would not get minutes in our crowded rotation either. Who would they take minutes from? Tatum, Hayward and Morris, or Smart, Brown and Rozier? Is that worth going over the cap for? Would that make any difference in the playoffs when rotations generally get even shorter?

I think Ainge is fully willing to use the exceptions we have left and go into the luxury tax if a player worth using it on becomes available. It might happen after the trade deadline.

Ilyasova is a PF.  He probably is the 2nd best big man on the team if he was signed.  He is the perfect stretch 4 for this team.  He was absolutely available at a reasonable price.  He is exactly the type of player that would be in the regular rotation with an important role.  But he isn't going to elevate any team very much, so you don't sign him and go into the luxury tax to sign him.

We all know by now, Stevens doesn't run the team that way. In his mind, there are no 'power forwards'. There are bigs, swings, and ball handlers. He uses one big, who can rotate well and shoot from the outside, and many swings. Ersan would be a swing, as he could never function defensively as a big, and would not take minutes from the other swings on this squad as his defense and perimeter shooting are inferior to the other rotation swings.

so Horford is a swing? I mean him and Baynes started and played a good amount of minutes together?

Sometimes Stevens goes with two 'bigs'. They are interchangeable , neither one is a 'center' or 'power forward' when they play together.  Both of them were shooting threes and switching well on defense. Baynes and Horford both shut down Embiid in the playoffs and were nailing three pointers for example. Theiss can do the same. When Stevens goes smaller, he uses one big and adds another swing, like Morris, Tatum, Hayward, Brown, or when he goes super small, he adds another ball handler, like when he would add Rozier or Larkin instead of a big. There's really no need for Ersan.

This was a team that was within a game of going to the Finals with basically our bench. Going over the cap to add guys who won't get minutes on this super deep roster wont help. This roster is tailor-made for Stevens coaching style. Anyone you consider adding has to be within the perspective of 'do they fit on Stevens system'? Then, are they good enough to take minutes away from any of the other guys already on the roster?

There's already going to be a crunch to keep guys who played 30+ minutes a game during the playoffs last season happy when we add Kyrie, Hayward and Theiss back in the mix. Taking even more minutes away from guys like Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Smart, Baynes, and Morris for players who don't make us better is bad management.

Except those guys would in fact get minutes.  Ilyasova, for example, is absolutely better than Theis and Semi, and against many lineups would be a better option than Baynes.  He also does a lot of things a lot better than Morris (he is a better rebounder and more consistent shooter).  This notion that someone like Ilyasova wouldn't play on this team is just nonsense.  The same is also true of excellent shooters like Belinelli or Curry.  Both provide consistent long range shooting that Boston really doesn't have on its bench.  Rozier is incredibly streaky and I frankly consider Tatum a starter even if he starts on the bench.  Having another guard that can consistently hit from deep would have been great and would consistently get minutes.

Those guys would all help a contender, but Boston didn't even bother spending the MLE because I really don't think Ainge believes this team has a chance of beating Golden State or Houston, if it even gets by Toronto (who is an absolute and real threat to Boston in the East, whether this board wants to acknowledge it). 

[Neurotic Guy]

No.  I think the opposite actually.  If Danny thought the team was truly ready to win a title he wouldn't have hesitated to go into the luxury tax and use all the exceptions.  The fact that he avoided the tax like the plague says to me that he doesn't think the team is truly ready to win a title and thus he didn't want to start the tax clock ticking on a team that wasn't likely to win the title.  He isn't giving up on the season and the Celtics clearly have a very good shot at coming out of the East, but when you have exceptions and there are players out there that could help, and you don't use them, that says a lot.

Which players where out there this summer that you think would have been worth going into the luxury tax for?

If I thought this team could realistically win a title, any number of players could have been added that would have strengthened the bench, especially at the PF and C positions.  Ilyasova comes immediately to mind.  Heck bringing back Amir Johnson would have made sense or going with Lopez, McDermott or countless other guys that are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th big on this team (not to mention Cousins, a simple phone call and he might have been a Celtic).  Getting another great shooter for the bench like Belinelli or Curry would have made a lot of sense as well. 

But you see, when you aren't all that close, those players aren't worth signing.  That is the point I was making.

Even if money and luxury tax were not an issue, I just don't see any of those guys getting regular minutes under Stevens with the depth we already have.

Lopez would be used the way Monroe was last year due to his defensive limitations. Stevens relies on centers that can rotate quickly and hit threes. Lopez would not play over Theiss and Baynes.  Amir Johnson was on his last legs when he was here before. He's even more useless now. Stevens had a hard time keeping him in back then.

Ilyasova, McDermott and Belinelli would not get minutes in our crowded rotation either. Who would they take minutes from? Tatum, Hayward and Morris, or Smart, Brown and Rozier? Is that worth going over the cap for? Would that make any difference in the playoffs when rotations generally get even shorter?

I think Ainge is fully willing to use the exceptions we have left and go into the luxury tax if a player worth using it on becomes available. It might happen after the trade deadline.

Ilyasova is a PF.  He probably is the 2nd best big man on the team if he was signed.  He is the perfect stretch 4 for this team.  He was absolutely available at a reasonable price.  He is exactly the type of player that would be in the regular rotation with an important role.  But he isn't going to elevate any team very much, so you don't sign him and go into the luxury tax to sign him.

We all know by now, Stevens doesn't run the team that way. In his mind, there are no 'power forwards'. There are bigs, swings, and ball handlers. He uses one big, who can rotate well and shoot from the outside, and many swings. Ersan would be a swing, as he could never function defensively as a big, and would not take minutes from the other swings on this squad as his defense and perimeter shooting are inferior to the other rotation swings.

so Horford is a swing? I mean him and Baynes started and played a good amount of minutes together?

Sometimes Stevens goes with two 'bigs'. They are interchangeable , neither one is a 'center' or 'power forward' when they play together.  Both of them were shooting threes and switching well on defense. Baynes and Horford both shut down Embiid in the playoffs and were nailing three pointers for example. Theiss can do the same. When Stevens goes smaller, he uses one big and adds another swing, like Morris, Tatum, Hayward, Brown, or when he goes super small, he adds another ball handler, like when he would add Rozier or Larkin instead of a big. There's really no need for Ersan.

This was a team that was within a game of going to the Finals with basically our bench. Going over the cap to add guys who won't get minutes on this super deep roster wont help. This roster is tailor-made for Stevens coaching style. Anyone you consider adding has to be within the perspective of 'do they fit on Stevens system'? Then, are they good enough to take minutes away from any of the other guys already on the roster?

There's already going to be a crunch to keep guys who played 30+ minutes a game during the playoffs last season happy when we add Kyrie, Hayward and Theiss back in the mix. Taking even more minutes away from guys like Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Smart, Baynes, and Morris for players who don't make us better is bad management.

Except those guys would in fact get minutes.  Ilyasova, for example, is absolutely better than Theis and Semi, and against many lineups would be a better option than Baynes.  He also does a lot of things a lot better than Morris (he is a better rebounder and more consistent shooter).  This notion that someone like Ilyasova wouldn't play on this team is just nonsense.  The same is also true of excellent shooters like Belinelli or Curry.  Both provide consistent long range shooting that Boston really doesn't have on its bench.  Rozier is incredibly streaky and I frankly consider Tatum a starter even if he starts on the bench.  Having another guard that can consistently hit from deep would have been great and would consistently get minutes.

Those guys would all help a contender, but Boston didn't even bother spending the MLE because I really don't think Ainge believes this team has a chance of beating Golden State or Houston, if it even gets by Toronto (who is an absolute and real threat to Boston in the East, whether this board wants to acknowledge it).

A few things are possible including your interpretation.  Another interpretation might be that Danny thinks he has the right team going into the season knowing he can strengthen the team through trades during the season.  Could be that he sees standing pat as providing flexibility down the road, rather than tying more $$ up with a marginal upgrade.   It's highly unlikely that he views this team as not having a chance to beat GS or Houston.  Certainly you can't believe he thinks his team has little chance of getting to The Finals, where anything can happen including a sprained ankle to KD or Curry.   

[Eddie20]

No.  I think the opposite actually.  If Danny thought the team was truly ready to win a title he wouldn't have hesitated to go into the luxury tax and use all the exceptions.  The fact that he avoided the tax like the plague says to me that he doesn't think the team is truly ready to win a title and thus he didn't want to start the tax clock ticking on a team that wasn't likely to win the title.  He isn't giving up on the season and the Celtics clearly have a very good shot at coming out of the East, but when you have exceptions and there are players out there that could help, and you don't use them, that says a lot.

Which players where out there this summer that you think would have been worth going into the luxury tax for?

If I thought this team could realistically win a title, any number of players could have been added that would have strengthened the bench, especially at the PF and C positions.  Ilyasova comes immediately to mind.  Heck bringing back Amir Johnson would have made sense or going with Lopez, McDermott or countless other guys that are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th big on this team (not to mention Cousins, a simple phone call and he might have been a Celtic).  Getting another great shooter for the bench like Belinelli or Curry would have made a lot of sense as well. 

But you see, when you aren't all that close, those players aren't worth signing.  That is the point I was making.

Even if money and luxury tax were not an issue, I just don't see any of those guys getting regular minutes under Stevens with the depth we already have.

Lopez would be used the way Monroe was last year due to his defensive limitations. Stevens relies on centers that can rotate quickly and hit threes. Lopez would not play over Theiss and Baynes.  Amir Johnson was on his last legs when he was here before. He's even more useless now. Stevens had a hard time keeping him in back then.

Ilyasova, McDermott and Belinelli would not get minutes in our crowded rotation either. Who would they take minutes from? Tatum, Hayward and Morris, or Smart, Brown and Rozier? Is that worth going over the cap for? Would that make any difference in the playoffs when rotations generally get even shorter?

I think Ainge is fully willing to use the exceptions we have left and go into the luxury tax if a player worth using it on becomes available. It might happen after the trade deadline.

Ilyasova is a PF.  He probably is the 2nd best big man on the team if he was signed.  He is the perfect stretch 4 for this team.  He was absolutely available at a reasonable price.  He is exactly the type of player that would be in the regular rotation with an important role.  But he isn't going to elevate any team very much, so you don't sign him and go into the luxury tax to sign him.

We all know by now, Stevens doesn't run the team that way. In his mind, there are no 'power forwards'. There are bigs, swings, and ball handlers. He uses one big, who can rotate well and shoot from the outside, and many swings. Ersan would be a swing, as he could never function defensively as a big, and would not take minutes from the other swings on this squad as his defense and perimeter shooting are inferior to the other rotation swings.

so Horford is a swing? I mean him and Baynes started and played a good amount of minutes together?

Sometimes Stevens goes with two 'bigs'. They are interchangeable , neither one is a 'center' or 'power forward' when they play together.  Both of them were shooting threes and switching well on defense. Baynes and Horford both shut down Embiid in the playoffs and were nailing three pointers for example. Theiss can do the same. When Stevens goes smaller, he uses one big and adds another swing, like Morris, Tatum, Hayward, Brown, or when he goes super small, he adds another ball handler, like when he would add Rozier or Larkin instead of a big. There's really no need for Ersan.

This was a team that was within a game of going to the Finals with basically our bench. Going over the cap to add guys who won't get minutes on this super deep roster wont help. This roster is tailor-made for Stevens coaching style. Anyone you consider adding has to be within the perspective of 'do they fit on Stevens system'? Then, are they good enough to take minutes away from any of the other guys already on the roster?

There's already going to be a crunch to keep guys who played 30+ minutes a game during the playoffs last season happy when we add Kyrie, Hayward and Theiss back in the mix. Taking even more minutes away from guys like Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Smart, Baynes, and Morris for players who don't make us better is bad management.

Except those guys would in fact get minutes.  Ilyasova, for example, is absolutely better than Theis and Semi, and against many lineups would be a better option than Baynes.  He also does a lot of things a lot better than Morris (he is a better rebounder and more consistent shooter).  This notion that someone like Ilyasova wouldn't play on this team is just nonsense.  The same is also true of excellent shooters like Belinelli or Curry.  Both provide consistent long range shooting that Boston really doesn't have on its bench.  Rozier is incredibly streaky and I frankly consider Tatum a starter even if he starts on the bench.  Having another guard that can consistently hit from deep would have been great and would consistently get minutes.

Those guys would all help a contender, but Boston didn't even bother spending the MLE because I really don't think Ainge believes this team has a chance of beating Golden State or Houston, if it even gets by Toronto (who is an absolute and real threat to Boston in the East, whether this board wants to acknowledge it).

The way you overrate is Illyasova is laughable. Since the 2014-15 season he has switched teams 8 times for a reason. You cited rebounding and shooting, but numbers indicate it's much closer than you think.

Last 3 seasons

Morris RPG
5.1 - 4.6 - 5.4 (don't forget Morris was playing primarily SF in Detroit, thus less reb opportunities)
Illyasova RPG
5.4 - 5.9 - 5.9

Morris FG%
43.4 - 41.8 - 42.9
Illyasova FG%
42.4 - 43.1 - 45.2

Morris 3PT%
36.2 - 33.1 - 36.8
Illyasova 3PT%
36.3 - 35.3 - 36.0


Theis, Morris, Baynes, Rozier, and Smart. That's our bench rotation. Illyasova and Belinelli wouldn't get any playing time at all with a healthy roster. It's almost as though you missed the entire series vs Philly and didn't see how pathetic both those players were against the very players (since you didn't see it we were without Hayward, Irving, or Theis) you think they're going to get minutes from. Plus, both are basically turnstiles defensively. Illyasova can take charges, but he's a sieve otherwise.

Here's what both averaged during the series-
Illyasova
FG% 33.3
3PT% 21.4
PPG 7.8

Belinelli
FG% 34.1
3PT% 31.3
PPG 9.2

[Moranis]

No.  I think the opposite actually.  If Danny thought the team was truly ready to win a title he wouldn't have hesitated to go into the luxury tax and use all the exceptions.  The fact that he avoided the tax like the plague says to me that he doesn't think the team is truly ready to win a title and thus he didn't want to start the tax clock ticking on a team that wasn't likely to win the title.  He isn't giving up on the season and the Celtics clearly have a very good shot at coming out of the East, but when you have exceptions and there are players out there that could help, and you don't use them, that says a lot.

Which players where out there this summer that you think would have been worth going into the luxury tax for?

If I thought this team could realistically win a title, any number of players could have been added that would have strengthened the bench, especially at the PF and C positions.  Ilyasova comes immediately to mind.  Heck bringing back Amir Johnson would have made sense or going with Lopez, McDermott or countless other guys that are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th big on this team (not to mention Cousins, a simple phone call and he might have been a Celtic).  Getting another great shooter for the bench like Belinelli or Curry would have made a lot of sense as well. 

But you see, when you aren't all that close, those players aren't worth signing.  That is the point I was making.

Even if money and luxury tax were not an issue, I just don't see any of those guys getting regular minutes under Stevens with the depth we already have.

Lopez would be used the way Monroe was last year due to his defensive limitations. Stevens relies on centers that can rotate quickly and hit threes. Lopez would not play over Theiss and Baynes.  Amir Johnson was on his last legs when he was here before. He's even more useless now. Stevens had a hard time keeping him in back then.

Ilyasova, McDermott and Belinelli would not get minutes in our crowded rotation either. Who would they take minutes from? Tatum, Hayward and Morris, or Smart, Brown and Rozier? Is that worth going over the cap for? Would that make any difference in the playoffs when rotations generally get even shorter?

I think Ainge is fully willing to use the exceptions we have left and go into the luxury tax if a player worth using it on becomes available. It might happen after the trade deadline.

Ilyasova is a PF.  He probably is the 2nd best big man on the team if he was signed.  He is the perfect stretch 4 for this team.  He was absolutely available at a reasonable price.  He is exactly the type of player that would be in the regular rotation with an important role.  But he isn't going to elevate any team very much, so you don't sign him and go into the luxury tax to sign him.

We all know by now, Stevens doesn't run the team that way. In his mind, there are no 'power forwards'. There are bigs, swings, and ball handlers. He uses one big, who can rotate well and shoot from the outside, and many swings. Ersan would be a swing, as he could never function defensively as a big, and would not take minutes from the other swings on this squad as his defense and perimeter shooting are inferior to the other rotation swings.

so Horford is a swing? I mean him and Baynes started and played a good amount of minutes together?

Sometimes Stevens goes with two 'bigs'. They are interchangeable , neither one is a 'center' or 'power forward' when they play together.  Both of them were shooting threes and switching well on defense. Baynes and Horford both shut down Embiid in the playoffs and were nailing three pointers for example. Theiss can do the same. When Stevens goes smaller, he uses one big and adds another swing, like Morris, Tatum, Hayward, Brown, or when he goes super small, he adds another ball handler, like when he would add Rozier or Larkin instead of a big. There's really no need for Ersan.

This was a team that was within a game of going to the Finals with basically our bench. Going over the cap to add guys who won't get minutes on this super deep roster wont help. This roster is tailor-made for Stevens coaching style. Anyone you consider adding has to be within the perspective of 'do they fit on Stevens system'? Then, are they good enough to take minutes away from any of the other guys already on the roster?

There's already going to be a crunch to keep guys who played 30+ minutes a game during the playoffs last season happy when we add Kyrie, Hayward and Theiss back in the mix. Taking even more minutes away from guys like Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Smart, Baynes, and Morris for players who don't make us better is bad management.

Except those guys would in fact get minutes.  Ilyasova, for example, is absolutely better than Theis and Semi, and against many lineups would be a better option than Baynes.  He also does a lot of things a lot better than Morris (he is a better rebounder and more consistent shooter).  This notion that someone like Ilyasova wouldn't play on this team is just nonsense.  The same is also true of excellent shooters like Belinelli or Curry.  Both provide consistent long range shooting that Boston really doesn't have on its bench.  Rozier is incredibly streaky and I frankly consider Tatum a starter even if he starts on the bench.  Having another guard that can consistently hit from deep would have been great and would consistently get minutes.

Those guys would all help a contender, but Boston didn't even bother spending the MLE because I really don't think Ainge believes this team has a chance of beating Golden State or Houston, if it even gets by Toronto (who is an absolute and real threat to Boston in the East, whether this board wants to acknowledge it).

The way you overrate is Illyasova is laughable. Since the 2014-15 season he has switched teams 8 times for a reason. You cited rebounding and shooting, but numbers indicate it's much closer than you think.

Last 3 seasons

Morris RPG
5.1 - 4.6 - 5.4 (don't forget Morris was playing primarily SF in Detroit, thus less reb opportunities)
Illyasova RPG
5.4 - 5.9 - 5.9

Morris FG%
43.4 - 41.8 - 42.9
Illyasova FG%
42.4 - 43.1 - 45.2

Morris 3PT%
36.2 - 33.1 - 36.8
Illyasova 3PT%
36.3 - 35.3 - 36.0


Theis, Morris, Baynes, Rozier, and Smart. That's our bench rotation. Illyasova and Belinelli wouldn't get any playing time at all with a healthy roster. It's almost as though you missed the entire series vs Philly and didn't see how pathetic both those players were against the very players (since you didn't see it we were without Hayward, Irving, or Theis) you think they're going to get minutes from. Plus, both are basically turnstiles defensively. Illyasova can take charges, but he's a sieve otherwise.

Here's what both averaged during the series-
Illyasova
FG% 33.3
3PT% 21.4
PPG 7.8

Belinelli
FG% 34.1
3PT% 31.3
PPG 9.2

per game numbers.  really.  per 36 or RB% there is a significant difference between Morris and Ilyasova.  Significant.  Ilyasova is a much better rebounder than Morris. 

No question they had a bad series (they were both pretty good in the 5 game win over Miami though), but just for the sake of comparison how was Morris in the Philly series?  How did Horford shoot from deep?  Smart was even worse than normal offensively.  If we judge players on a 5 game series, we aren't doing a very good job (look no further than Boston's 5 game loss to the Cavs the year before when guys like Rozier, Olynyk, Bradley, etc. were terrible).

[More Banners]

We need to see how it all works healthy, but we look pretty good. No need to tinker too much.

I'm looking forward to adding two Allstars in Kyrie and Gordon, and also I really like Theis and want to see him healthy through a season and into the playoffs, - I want to see those 3 players at 100% added to our ECF team from last playoffs.

If they bump Rozier and Tatum to the bench...holy smokes. That's some firepower.

Irving
Brown
GHayward
Horford
 Baynes

Rozier
Smart
Tatum
Morris
Theis

[Androslav]

We need to see how it all works healthy, but we look pretty good. No need to tinker too much.

I'm looking forward to adding two Allstars in Kyrie and Gordon, and also I really like Theis and want to see him healthy through a season and into the playoffs, - I want to see those 3 players at 100% added to our ECF team from last playoffs.

If they bump Rozier and Tatum to the bench...holy smokes. That's some firepower.

Irving
Brown
GHayward
Horford
 Baynes

Rozier
Smart
Tatum
Morris
Theis

Tatum is starting, 100%.
I'd also include Wanamaker and Semi, 2 excellent bench players.

[More Banners]

We need to see how it all works healthy, but we look pretty good. No need to tinker too much.

I'm looking forward to adding two Allstars in Kyrie and Gordon, and also I really like Theis and want to see him healthy through a season and into the playoffs, - I want to see those 3 players at 100% added to our ECF team from last playoffs.

If they bump Rozier and Tatum to the bench...holy smokes. That's some firepower.

Irving
Brown
GHayward
Horford
 Baynes

Rozier
Smart
Tatum
Morris
Theis

Tatum is starting, 100%.
I'd also include Wanamaker and Semi, 2 excellent bench players.

Yeah, I'd start Tatum and move Al to the 5 (sorry, Al), but might Brad take it easy on the old timer? 

And absolutely Semi and Wanamaker are 11 and 12, and no doubt will see time and contribute. Where and when, I have no idea. I expect quite a bit of lineup shuffling in the first 20 games. Gathering data like that at the beginning of the season drives me a bit nuts, but makes sense.

[Hoopvortex]

We need to see how it all works healthy, but we look pretty good. No need to tinker too much.

I'm looking forward to adding two Allstars in Kyrie and Gordon, and also I really like Theis and want to see him healthy through a season and into the playoffs, - I want to see those 3 players at 100% added to our ECF team from last playoffs.

If they bump Rozier and Tatum to the bench...holy smokes. That's some firepower.

Irving
Brown
GHayward
Horford
 Baynes

Rozier
Smart
Tatum
Morris
Theis

Tatum is starting, 100%.
I'd also include Wanamaker and Semi, 2 excellent bench players.

Re: Tatum starting. This is worth a thread. Tatum was already a starter on Day 1 last season, and can anyone doubt that we’ll see a lot of the Irving/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford lineup? But the two-big lineups that predominated last year are not going away.