NFL 2022 Season

[Moranis]

I have no idea if he should have been out there, but I am taking people like Macdonald at their word because it is all verifiable.  That said, the hit last night was nasty.  Even if nothing had happened on Sunday he would have almost certainly been concussed if he had taken that hit in that manner. 

[nickagneta]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

[Goldstar88]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

I mean, there is a video from Sunday showing Tua falling with his head snapping back and hitting the turf. That’s not speculation, it actually happened. He didn’t get up clutching his back. He got up and shook his head in a daze before stumbling and nearly falling over.

Was it a concussion for sure? Can’t say. Pretty sure he would need a CT scan for that.  I’m just shocked that anyone could watch the video from Sunday and believe that there wasn’t likely harm to Tua’s head and neck.

I think the league needs to have their own doctors for these sort of issues; to protect the players and themselves. Not a team doctor or a nameless independent doctor who is also likely being paid by the team. The owners want to win, the players want to play(even when it could be detrimental to their health) and the doctors want to have a job and earn a living at the end of the day. Will be very interesting to see how things go with the NFLPA’s investigation.

[celticsclay]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

I think the concussion protocol in the nfl clearly needs some work. You seem to be putting quite a bit of blind faith into team doctors when we have a close to a half century of them doing fairly unethical things (overprescribing pain pills and cortisone shots and risking the long term health of players that has had absolutely horrible real life consequences).

[nickagneta]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

I mean, there is a video from Sunday showing Tua falling with his head snapping back and hitting the turf. That’s not speculation, it actually happened. He didn’t get up clutching his back. He got up and shook his head in a daze before stumbling and nearly falling over.

Was it a concussion for sure? Can’t say. Pretty sure he would need a CT scan for that.  I’m just shocked that anyone could watch the video from Sunday and believe that there wasn’t likely harm to Tua’s head and neck.

I think the league needs to have their own doctors for these sort of issues; to protect the players and themselves. Not a team doctor or a nameless independent doctor who is also likely being paid by the team. The owners want to win, the players want to play(even when it could be detrimental to their health) and the doctors want to have a job and earn a living at the end of the day. Will be very interesting to see how things go with the NFLPA’s investigation.

The independent neurologist on the sideline is not paid by the team.

[nickagneta]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

I think the concussion protocol in the nfl clearly needs some work. You seem to be putting quite a bit of blind faith into team doctors when we have a close to a half century of them doing fairly unethical things (overprescribing pain pills and cortisone shots and risking the long term health of players that has had absolutely horrible real life consequences).

The independent neurologist is not a team doctor. What motive does that doctor have to ignore concussion symptoms and okay a player to play?

[Csfan1984]

Let's not forget Dolphins are being sued for not following NFL procedures already. Can you say they are connected, no but it doesn't help the organization look upstanding for me to trust them last week.

[Roy H.]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

I mean, there is a video from Sunday showing Tua falling with his head snapping back and hitting the turf. That’s not speculation, it actually happened. He didn’t get up clutching his back. He got up and shook his head in a daze before stumbling and nearly falling over.

Was it a concussion for sure? Can’t say. Pretty sure he would need a CT scan for that.  I’m just shocked that anyone could watch the video from Sunday and believe that there wasn’t likely harm to Tua’s head and neck.

I think the league needs to have their own doctors for these sort of issues; to protect the players and themselves. Not a team doctor or a nameless independent doctor who is also likely being paid by the team. The owners want to win, the players want to play(even when it could be detrimental to their health) and the doctors want to have a job and earn a living at the end of the day. Will be very interesting to see how things go with the NFLPA’s investigation.

Here's the relevant part of the CBA:

https://overthecap.com/collective-bargaining-agreement/appendix/W

The NFLPA has complete sign-off over these doctors.

[celticsclay]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

Which of those folks have medical degrees and personally examined Tua?

Same point I just made to Nick, we have a long history of team doctors doing highly questionable things. This goes back 40 years and countless players have talked about them being given pain killers like candy or told they could play on something that later caused them life long pain. Why are we all of a sudden assuming anyone associated with the nfl that determines if a play can/should play has tons of integrity. They originally added independent doctors cause this was such a problem.

[Roy H.]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

Which of those folks have medical degrees and personally examined Tua?

Same point I just made to Nick, we have a long history of team doctors doing highly questionable things. This goes back 40 years and countless players have talked about them being given pain killers like candy or told they could play on something that later caused them life long pain. Why are we all of a sudden assuming anyone associated with the nfl that determines if a play can/should play has tons of integrity. They originally added independent doctors cause this was such a problem.

There's an independent board-certified neurologist with a history of treating head injuries that examines a player.  Then, the player has the right to a second opinion during the week. 

If there was a concussion, prove it.  Allegations without evidence are bull honky.

[celticsclay]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

Which of those folks have medical degrees and personally examined Tua?

Same point I just made to Nick, we have a long history of team doctors doing highly questionable things. This goes back 40 years and countless players have talked about them being given pain killers like candy or told they could play on something that later caused them life long pain. Why are we all of a sudden assuming anyone associated with the nfl that determines if a play can/should play has tons of integrity. They originally added independent doctors cause this was such a problem.

There's an independent board-certified neurologist with a history of treating head injuries that examines a player.  Then, the player has the right to a second opinion during the week. 

If there was a concussion, prove it.  Allegations without evidence are bull honky.

I mean I agree with you. They will have to prove it. But there is at least a reasonable chance something was mishandled or an investigation wouldn’t even be opened. It’s not like this is something that happens every week. Also, if someone I know was being investigated for murder I would certainly think oh man this could mean something real bad happened. I wouldn’t just bull honky prove it. This is especially surprising given the nfls history with concussions.

[celticsclay]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

I think the concussion protocol in the nfl clearly needs some work. You seem to be putting quite a bit of blind faith into team doctors when we have a close to a half century of them doing fairly unethical things (overprescribing pain pills and cortisone shots and risking the long term health of players that has had absolutely horrible real life consequences).

The independent neurologist is not a team doctor. What motive does that doctor have to ignore concussion symptoms and okay a player to play?

In just about any profession there is motivation to not rock the boat if something is borderline or in a grey area. Probably a pretty lucrative job and there are very few of them. This seems like fairly reasonable logic.

[celticsclay]

Let's not forget Dolphins are being sued for not following NFL procedures already. Can you say they are connected, no but it doesn't help the organization look upstanding for me to trust them last week.

Two separate incidents right. Brian Flores and the whole Brady thing. Definitely don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt that they wouldnt skirt a protocol.

[Roy H.]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

I think the concussion protocol in the nfl clearly needs some work. You seem to be putting quite a bit of blind faith into team doctors when we have a close to a half century of them doing fairly unethical things (overprescribing pain pills and cortisone shots and risking the long term health of players that has had absolutely horrible real life consequences).

The independent neurologist is not a team doctor. What motive does that doctor have to ignore concussion symptoms and okay a player to play?

In just about any profession there is motivation to not rock the boat if something is borderline or in a grey area. Probably a pretty lucrative job and there are very few of them. This seems like fairly reasonable logic.

Malpractice claims are a pretty big disincentive, right?

[Moranis]

So you guys really think that with a hit and after effect so visible that the Dolphins and the independent doctor are going to play fast and loose with the protocols?  I mean that makes zero sense.  I might buy it if it was a lineman that ran off the field without issue, but there is no way the Dolphins are going to skirt protocols when it is their QB, who got up, fell down, and stumbled around a bit.  NFL teams may be run by lying Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.s, but they generally aren't morons and to believe they'd skirt the rules that blatantly, you have to believe they are morons.