New Celtics / Durant rumor

[Birdman]

Seems like every year there’s a rumor about a player that’s we going to trade for or sign

[Roy H.]

“League sources have insisted for weeks that the Celtics have not had any real discussions of substance with the Nets about Durant, and they’ve communicated with Brown about the situation frequently

[nickagneta]

“League sources have insisted for weeks that the Celtics have not had any real discussions of substance with the Nets about Durant, and they’ve communicated with Brown about the situation frequently

Pretty much what I have been saying from the very start. I know you put a ton of stock in those Woj and Shams reports but they always seemed very suspect to me as it was obvious it was a Net leak looking to enhance Nets goals and weaken Boston's or any other team's goals.

I never bought Brad did anything but make some off the cuff discussion to gauge Nets desire of return on the trade and that's it. That nothing was ever serious and that JB was kept in touch of this all along. The reports out of Brooklyn just made no sense given Boston is just a Dwight Howard type signing away from being the clear favorite going into the season.

[Roy H.]

“League sources have insisted for weeks that the Celtics have not had any real discussions of substance with the Nets about Durant, and they’ve communicated with Brown about the situation frequently

Pretty much what I have been saying from the very start. I know you put a ton of stock in those Woj and Shams reports but they always seemed very suspect to me as it was obvious it was a Net leak looking to enhance Nets goals and weaken Boston's or any other team's goals.

I never bought Brad did anything but make some off the cuff discussion to gauge Nets desire of return on the trade and that's it. That nothing was ever serious and that JB was kept in touch of this all along. The reports out of Brooklyn just made no sense given Boston is just a Dwight Howard type signing away from being the clear favorite going into the season.

I think Himmelsbach is much less reliable than Woj and Shams. 

[nickagneta]

“League sources have insisted for weeks that the Celtics have not had any real discussions of substance with the Nets about Durant, and they’ve communicated with Brown about the situation frequently

Pretty much what I have been saying from the very start. I know you put a ton of stock in those Woj and Shams reports but they always seemed very suspect to me as it was obvious it was a Net leak looking to enhance Nets goals and weaken Boston's or any other team's goals.

I never bought Brad did anything but make some off the cuff discussion to gauge Nets desire of return on the trade and that's it. That nothing was ever serious and that JB was kept in touch of this all along. The reports out of Brooklyn just made no sense given Boston is just a Dwight Howard type signing away from being the clear favorite going into the season.

I think Himmelsbach is much less reliable than Woj and Shams.

Usually, I agree, but I think this report by Himmelsbach just makes more sense. Shams and Woj can be wrong and looks like they were used on this one.

[Roy H.]

"It goes back to your earlier question. Like, what do you give up being Jayson Tatum? It's like, they exaggerate everything I do," Tatum said. "I've known KD since I was in high school. We were on the USA team together, we spent five weeks together last year from Vegas to Tokyo, we won a gold medal. We have a bond. Like, that's my brother. And it's like, I'm not too proud to say KD's one of the best players ever, so it's like one of the best players wants to work out with you and I could learn some things from him. Why would I say no?

"If you worry too much about what other people think, you're going to drive yourself crazy. And it's crazy that I can't work out with somebody. That's all it was, we were working out together trying to get better."

[nickagneta]

I've heard stories that after Tatum's rookie year Big Al invited him, Kyrie, KD and a bunch of Al's closest guys across the league to the Bahamas for a week that summer to work out. So, Jayson has been working out with Durant a lot of years during the off-seasons. The idea that these guys are and/or shouldn't be friends with people on other teams across the league and shouldn't be because of fanboy type loyalties and rivalries is pretty  pathetic. KD and JT have been tight a long time. There's zero to read into them working out for yet another off-season.

[Moranis]

“League sources have insisted for weeks that the Celtics have not had any real discussions of substance with the Nets about Durant, and they’ve communicated with Brown about the situation frequently

Pretty much what I have been saying from the very start. I know you put a ton of stock in those Woj and Shams reports but they always seemed very suspect to me as it was obvious it was a Net leak looking to enhance Nets goals and weaken Boston's or any other team's goals.

I never bought Brad did anything but make some off the cuff discussion to gauge Nets desire of return on the trade and that's it. That nothing was ever serious and that JB was kept in touch of this all along. The reports out of Brooklyn just made no sense given Boston is just a Dwight Howard type signing away from being the clear favorite going into the season.

I think Himmelsbach is much less reliable than Woj and Shams.

Usually, I agree, but I think this report by Himmelsbach just makes more sense. Shams and Woj can be wrong and looks like they were used on this one.

Or Himmelsbach is saying now that an offer of Brown, White, and a 1st is not a real discussion of substance because it never went anywhere. 

Also, I've never heard anyone deny that Brown, White, and a 1st was offered.  If it wasn't offered just say that.

[Vermont Green]

Also, I've never heard anyone deny that Brown, White, and a 1st was offered.  If it wasn't offered just say that.

I am not going to claim to know what was or wasn't offered or how serious discussion may have been but if a team starts coming out and denying some rumors but not others then what about all the other ones that they don't deny?  It is a trap to start down that path and one Stevens is smart enough apparently not to fall into it.  I see no reason for the Celtics to make any statement what so ever regarding trade discussions with BKN.  A denial would accomplish nothing and lack of a denial proves nothing.  Somebody (BKN or anybody) could offer something for Brown tomorrow that is so good the Celtics take it.

As to how to deal with Brown, I would simply say that the team is not going to confirm or deny any trade discussion involving any team or player privately or otherwise.  But you can reassure Brown that they are not looking to trade him, view him as a big part of the future, can't say never, but pretty close to never.  Brown seems smart and mature enough to be able to deal with that and understand it will be no different on any team.  If that makes him want to leave the Celtics, so be it.  But deal with that next off season. 

This season, let's run this thing back with Brogdon and Gallinari bolstering the team and see what we got.  See if RWill can stay healthy.  See what Horford has left in the tank.  See if White can settle in.  See if Vonleh is an NBA player.  And most of all, see what kind of leap Tatum and Brown can make together coming off the experience of making the finals.

[Roy H.]

Also, I've never heard anyone deny that Brown, White, and a 1st was offered.  If it wasn't offered just say that.

I am not going to claim to know what was or wasn't offered or how serious discussion may have been but if a team starts coming out and denying some rumors but not others then what about all the other ones that they don't deny?

I don't think that most front offices will directly confirm or deny specific trade discussions.  As you say, that's a no win situation.

But, even the sources with connections to the Celtics front office aren't saying "JB's name never came up".  Instead, they're saying "there were never serious conversations", while trying to distinguish a concrete offer from something that isn't an offer.

I agree with Moranis that that probably points back to the Celtics including JB's name in discussions, with whatever semantics people want to use to downplay that.  Those discussions probably didn't have a lot of traction because neither team was interested in compromising much to reach a deal, but that doesn't mean that we weren't willing (at least at one time this summer) to include Brown to make a Durant deal work.

[Moranis]

Also, I've never heard anyone deny that Brown, White, and a 1st was offered.  If it wasn't offered just say that.

I am not going to claim to know what was or wasn't offered or how serious discussion may have been but if a team starts coming out and denying some rumors but not others then what about all the other ones that they don't deny?

I don't think that most front offices will directly confirm or deny specific trade discussions.  As you say, that's a no win situation.

But, even the sources with connections to the Celtics front office aren't saying "JB's name never came up".  Instead, they're saying "there were never serious conversations", while trying to distinguish a concrete offer from something that isn't an offer.

I agree with Moranis that that probably points back to the Celtics including JB's name in discussions, with whatever semantics people want to use to downplay that.  Those discussions probably didn't have a lot of traction because neither team was interested in compromising much to reach a deal, but that doesn't mean that we weren't willing (at least at one time this summer) to include Brown to make a Durant deal work.

That is exactly correct.  The C's let the Nets know that Brown was on the table in a Durant trade.  There really isn't any other way around that.  The teams just weren't close so they never progressed to serious discussions

[Vermont Green]

Also, I've never heard anyone deny that Brown, White, and a 1st was offered.  If it wasn't offered just say that.

I am not going to claim to know what was or wasn't offered or how serious discussion may have been but if a team starts coming out and denying some rumors but not others then what about all the other ones that they don't deny?

I don't think that most front offices will directly confirm or deny specific trade discussions.  As you say, that's a no win situation.

But, even the sources with connections to the Celtics front office aren't saying "JB's name never came up".  Instead, they're saying "there were never serious conversations", while trying to distinguish a concrete offer from something that isn't an offer.

I agree with Moranis that that probably points back to the Celtics including JB's name in discussions, with whatever semantics people want to use to downplay that.  Those discussions probably didn't have a lot of traction because neither team was interested in compromising much to reach a deal, but that doesn't mean that we weren't willing (at least at one time this summer) to include Brown to make a Durant deal work.

I don't know what to make of all the reports or even if his name did "come up in discussions" what that really means or if it was the Celtics that included his name or if BKN asked about him or if that even matters.  There were reports that Toronto would not include Scottie Barnes and that NOP would not include Brandon Ingram in a trade for Durant.  But their names apparently came up.  I don't find either of those reports any more convincing than if there was some report that the Celtics wouldn't include Brown.  The bottom line is that Boston so far has not included Brown in a trade with BNK or anyone else.  His name has probably come up in many discussions.

I would be concerned if I thought the Celtics were "shopping" Brown.  Actually looking to trade him.  If this were the case, it would presumably be because they thought he was going to leave.  But I don't think this is the case and I don't believe Brown feels it is the case either.  The Celtics are talking at some level with every team in the league and Brown is coming up often probably.  Same with Smart, Williams, probably sometimes even Tatum.

[Roy H.]

Yeah, I don't think the Celts are shopping Brown.  I believe that they assumed that Brooklyn was serious about trading KD, so they made a substantial offer.  When Brad got blown off (reportedly), he moved on.  And, as far as we know, that's the one and only time Brown's name has been mentioned by the Celtics as being available for the right return.

There are conflicting narratives, about the Celtics either being in hot pursuit of Durant or about the Celtics just casually doing due diligence.  I suspect that Brown was put on the table in a serious manner, but talks quickly ended because the Nets weren't serious sellers. 

As for "does it matter"...  Not very much right now, for everybody except for Jaylen.  For him, the question of "did the Celtics offer me or did the Nets ask for me" may hold some importance.  Ultimately, if he performs and gets his max / supermax contract, it will hopefully just be an interesting side note he can tell his grandkids.  But, if the season goes sideways, maybe it turns into a grudge.  It's impossible to know, but I think in most scenarios, JB can live with the fact that he was offered for an all-time great still performing like a star.

[Roy H.]

Shams update:

In terms of trade action, no deal is closer along at the moment, but a new suitor has emerged from the Western Conference.

With NBA training camps set to open about a month from now, here is where things stand.

The Boston Celtics, Toronto Raptors and Miami Heat remain among the most serious threats to land Durant because they have the types of pieces necessary to satisfy the Nets’ asking price in a deal for the two-time NBA Finals MVP. However, no one yet has met Brooklyn’s high price tag of an All-Star, other high-level players and draft picks — and conversations with those three front-runners have been non-existent recently. The Celtics offered All-Star Jaylen Brown, guard Derrick White and a first-round draft pick in July, according to league sources; the Raptors have refused to make Rookie of the Year Scottie Barnes available; and Miami has yet to seriously engage with a package around All-Star Bam Adebayo.

The Philadelphia 76ers expressed recent interest in Durant while the Milwaukee Bucks and Denver Nuggets also inquired with the Nets in late June and early July to gauge the price tag, according to sources. The New Orleans Pelicans inquired with the Nets on June 30 as well but deemed All-Star Brandon Ingram as untouchable, sources said. Also in the past month, the Atlanta Hawks offered John Collins, De’Andre Hunter and a draft pick for Durant, according to sources.

None of those conversations gained much traction. Durant has four years and $198 million remaining on his Nets contract.

Recently, a new team has shown interest in Durant: the Memphis Grizzlies, league sources tell The Athletic. Fresh off a 56-win season, the Grizzlies have made new inquiries to the Nets about Durant, those sources added. Memphis has five first-round draft picks available (four unprotected selections of its own and one protected via Golden State in 2024) to theoretically utilize in a trade as well as young players like Jaren Jackson Jr., Desmond Bane, Ziaire Williams, Brandon Clarke, Kennedy Chandler and David Roddy.
...
Among the interested teams, the Celtics have been viewed across the league as the clear-cut answer as the team that has the ingredients to make a deal with Brooklyn happen. For now, Boston has not included guard Marcus Smart or center Robert Williams in a proposal, sources said. The Celtics have up to three first-round picks available to trade to Brooklyn. When Brooklyn rejected Boston’s offer last month, the Nets countered by requesting Brown, Smart, draft picks and potentially one more rotation player, according to sources.

So yes, Boston has the necessary pieces and Brooklyn has listened, but a gap exists.

For the Celtics, there’s a careful balance to improving the roster and maintaining their current status as a championship contender. President of Basketball Operations Brad Stevens has patiently and deftly continued to strengthen the Celtics’ roster following their NBA Finals berth, adding Malcolm Brogdon and Danilo Gallinari this offseason.

Now, will Boston step up to the Nets’ asking price to add a potential missing piece that has become available in a manner that has rarely happened in NBA history? We’ll have to wait and see.

There’s just over one month remaining in the NBA’s offseason. The Celtics and other teams in pursuit of Durant have time to make their best proposals and these deals can escalate quickly, but the clock is ticking for everybody involved.

https://theathletic.com/3526628/2022/08/22/kevin-durant-donovan-mitchell-trade-talk-shams/

Note:  nothing in there says that there have been recent conversations with the Celts.

[Vermont Green]

Shams update:

In terms of trade action, no deal is closer along at the moment, but a new suitor has emerged from the Western Conference.

With NBA training camps set to open about a month from now, here is where things stand.

The Boston Celtics, Toronto Raptors and Miami Heat remain among the most serious threats to land Durant because they have the types of pieces necessary to satisfy the Nets’ asking price in a deal for the two-time NBA Finals MVP. However, no one yet has met Brooklyn’s high price tag of an All-Star, other high-level players and draft picks — and conversations with those three front-runners have been non-existent recently. The Celtics offered All-Star Jaylen Brown, guard Derrick White and a first-round draft pick in July, according to league sources; the Raptors have refused to make Rookie of the Year Scottie Barnes available; and Miami has yet to seriously engage with a package around All-Star Bam Adebayo.

The Philadelphia 76ers expressed recent interest in Durant while the Milwaukee Bucks and Denver Nuggets also inquired with the Nets in late June and early July to gauge the price tag, according to sources. The New Orleans Pelicans inquired with the Nets on June 30 as well but deemed All-Star Brandon Ingram as untouchable, sources said. Also in the past month, the Atlanta Hawks offered John Collins, De’Andre Hunter and a draft pick for Durant, according to sources.

None of those conversations gained much traction. Durant has four years and $198 million remaining on his Nets contract.

Recently, a new team has shown interest in Durant: the Memphis Grizzlies, league sources tell The Athletic. Fresh off a 56-win season, the Grizzlies have made new inquiries to the Nets about Durant, those sources added. Memphis has five first-round draft picks available (four unprotected selections of its own and one protected via Golden State in 2024) to theoretically utilize in a trade as well as young players like Jaren Jackson Jr., Desmond Bane, Ziaire Williams, Brandon Clarke, Kennedy Chandler and David Roddy.
...
Among the interested teams, the Celtics have been viewed across the league as the clear-cut answer as the team that has the ingredients to make a deal with Brooklyn happen. For now, Boston has not included guard Marcus Smart or center Robert Williams in a proposal, sources said. The Celtics have up to three first-round picks available to trade to Brooklyn. When Brooklyn rejected Boston’s offer last month, the Nets countered by requesting Brown, Smart, draft picks and potentially one more rotation player, according to sources.

So yes, Boston has the necessary pieces and Brooklyn has listened, but a gap exists.

For the Celtics, there’s a careful balance to improving the roster and maintaining their current status as a championship contender. President of Basketball Operations Brad Stevens has patiently and deftly continued to strengthen the Celtics’ roster following their NBA Finals berth, adding Malcolm Brogdon and Danilo Gallinari this offseason.

Now, will Boston step up to the Nets’ asking price to add a potential missing piece that has become available in a manner that has rarely happened in NBA history? We’ll have to wait and see.

There’s just over one month remaining in the NBA’s offseason. The Celtics and other teams in pursuit of Durant have time to make their best proposals and these deals can escalate quickly, but the clock is ticking for everybody involved.

https://theathletic.com/3526628/2022/08/22/kevin-durant-donovan-mitchell-trade-talk-shams/

Note:  nothing in there says that there have been recent conversations with the Celts.

Yeah, this is just regurgitating all the old "reports" and saying that he (Shams) has concluded the Celtics are a serious threat to land Durant because they have the "necessary pieces".  It is deductive reasoning, not reporting any actual information he has been told.

I don't believe there is any story here.  I don't believe the original "report" that we "offered" Brown and White and whatever (it could be true, I don't necessarily not believe it, I just don't take it as gospel).  I also don't believe that Toronto would let Scottie Barnes get in the way of getting Durant and I don't believe NOP would walk away over Ingram.  But I am a cynic.

Toronto is interesting in that they have a recent history of winning a championship by going all in for Leonard, but then having him walk.  Durant is signed for 4 years though.  And to me, NOP makes the most sense; give up Ingram, some young players, and they have extra picks they can offer.  Pair Durant with Williamson + McCollum and they are an immediate contender.  Ingram is already half way though his contract and he may not stick around when he becomes a UFA in 2025.  I don't see Miami at all.

So my deductive reasoning results in the following rank of likely destinations for Durant

1.  Brooklyn (by far most likely)

10% or less

2.  New Orleans
3.  Toronto


1% or less

4.  Lakers (Davis and Westbrook for Durant and Irving)
5.  Boston
6.  Anybody else