New Celtics / Durant rumor

[RJ87]

So watching Durant's burn everyone who did what he wanted demand, how many GM/Coaching duos want to take that chance on?   


I mean if they are desperate, sure.

It is astonishing to me to see how all the lines that were crossed and the resulting the meltdown of Brooklyn only seems to be weighed heavily by a minority of posts in this thread.

Brooklyn played this out in front of everyone. They got everything into place. They have been destroyed in the course of a single year, and yet a majority of fans, media and posters continue to see Durant as a clear way to a championship.

This Ringer story does a good job of framing just how crazy this all is:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/8/9/23298034/kevin-durant-trade-request-rumors

Eh.  Durant went to an unstable situation and joined up with two prima donnas.  Predictably, that blew up in everybody's face.  When he had a full team, though, the Nets were extremely good, and then almost took down the Bucks despite being short-handed. 

A few years earlier, Durant went to a stable situation and joined up with multiple other stars.  Predictably, that team won a couple of titles, and would have won a third if not for injuries.

Which situation are the Celtics closer to?  A stable situation that Durant can fit into, or a chaotic one that is going to waste his talents?

Brooklyn wasn't unstable at all pre-Durant.

GS was one of the most uniquely mature and positive teams in sports with Curry, Thompson and Kerr. It just took Durant a little longer to find a way to be unhappy.

So, yeah, maybe you can talk yourself into the idea that the C's have enough cultural depth to hold it together for a couple of years like GS did, but if we send out two of the guys that have the strongest character on the team, maybe that won't hold up.

Tatum is our best player, but the team's competitive personality comes from Smart first and Brown second.

What was stable about Brooklyn?  2020 was treated as a transition year, as Durant missed the entire season rehabbing and Kyrie only played 20 games.  The coach was fired during the season.  Jarrett Allen, Taurean Prince, Garrett Temple and Caris LaVert were all starters for a bulk of the season.  By the time Durant was healthy, those guys were all gone, as was the interim coach.  The guys who were on both the 2020 and 2021 roster (after the Harden trade 12 games in) were Kyrie, Jordan, Dinwiddie (3 games before getting hurt) and Harris.

Durant's years in Brooklyn were filled with roster turnover, coaching changes, injuries and flakiness.

I think the argument he was making was Brooklyn had a good young coach and a lot of solid quality young player depth that should have supplemented Durant and Irving, but as a result of Durant and Irving not being happy, the coach was fired and the young solid depth was traded for Harden (along with a whole heck of a lot of future draft picks).  That it was Durant and Irving that created the instability.  I'm not sure I entirely agree, but the Nets were 42-40 the year before Durant and Irving arrived with a rotation that was mostly in its early to mid 20's so you can see how that could be considered stable.

This is true though. The team had a good coach in Kenny and a solid young core. The discontent started when Kenny didn't want to start and play Deandre - who Kyrie and KD made part of their deal to sign in Brooklyn - over Jarrett Allen. Kenny didn't agree and the next thing you know, a good coach who managed to instill accountability and effort in a young team was agreeing to mutually part ways.

I get the need to fall over backwards to dismiss the primadonna behavior, but Kyrie's and Kevin's fingerprints are all over the undoing of the team. Kevin liked what he saw enough to sign there as a free agent in 2019 and liked what he saw enough to reup in 2021 on a 4 year deal instead of going to free agency. This whole "he shouldn't be trapped in a situation he didn't choose" is garbage and the ultimate gaslighting.

And quite frankly, the team is getting back Joe Harris and Ben Simmons from injury. They traded for Royce O'Neal and signed TJ Warren. And they still have Seth Curry and Patty Mills. On paper, they're a playoff team with a chance to compete. Kevin is just salty Marks fired his buddy, Adam Harrington, from the front office/coaching staff and they didn't hand an unearned max to Kyrie.

[Roy H.]

This whole "he shouldn't be trapped in a situation he didn't choose" is garbage and the ultimate gaslighting.

Who is arguing that?

[td450]

So watching Durant's burn everyone who did what he wanted demand, how many GM/Coaching duos want to take that chance on?   


I mean if they are desperate, sure.

It is astonishing to me to see how all the lines that were crossed and the resulting the meltdown of Brooklyn only seems to be weighed heavily by a minority of posts in this thread.

Brooklyn played this out in front of everyone. They got everything into place. They have been destroyed in the course of a single year, and yet a majority of fans, media and posters continue to see Durant as a clear way to a championship.

This Ringer story does a good job of framing just how crazy this all is:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/8/9/23298034/kevin-durant-trade-request-rumors

Eh.  Durant went to an unstable situation and joined up with two prima donnas.  Predictably, that blew up in everybody's face.  When he had a full team, though, the Nets were extremely good, and then almost took down the Bucks despite being short-handed. 

A few years earlier, Durant went to a stable situation and joined up with multiple other stars.  Predictably, that team won a couple of titles, and would have won a third if not for injuries.

Which situation are the Celtics closer to?  A stable situation that Durant can fit into, or a chaotic one that is going to waste his talents?

Brooklyn wasn't unstable at all pre-Durant.

GS was one of the most uniquely mature and positive teams in sports with Curry, Thompson and Kerr. It just took Durant a little longer to find a way to be unhappy.

So, yeah, maybe you can talk yourself into the idea that the C's have enough cultural depth to hold it together for a couple of years like GS did, but if we send out two of the guys that have the strongest character on the team, maybe that won't hold up.

Tatum is our best player, but the team's competitive personality comes from Smart first and Brown second.

What was stable about Brooklyn?  2020 was treated as a transition year, as Durant missed the entire season rehabbing and Kyrie only played 20 games.  The coach was fired during the season.  Jarrett Allen, Taurean Prince, Garrett Temple and Caris LaVert were all starters for a bulk of the season.  By the time Durant was healthy, those guys were all gone, as was the interim coach.  The guys who were on both the 2020 and 2021 roster (after the Harden trade 12 games in) were Kyrie, Jordan, Dinwiddie (3 games before getting hurt) and Harris.

Durant's years in Brooklyn were filled with roster turnover, coaching changes, injuries and flakiness.

I think the argument he was making was Brooklyn had a good young coach and a lot of solid quality young player depth that should have supplemented Durant and Irving, but as a result of Durant and Irving not being happy, the coach was fired and the young solid depth was traded for Harden (along with a whole heck of a lot of future draft picks).  That it was Durant and Irving that created the instability.  I'm not sure I entirely agree, but the Nets were 42-40 the year before Durant and Irving arrived with a rotation that was mostly in its early to mid 20's so you can see how that could be considered stable.

That is a reasonable description of how I saw it, although I don't blame Durant for all of it. Some of those failures were on management, but they were also driven by trying to configure the franchise around Durant. My guess is that this will be Sean Mark's last major NBA job.

[Celtics2021]

This whole "he shouldn't be trapped in a situation he didn't choose" is garbage and the ultimate gaslighting.

Who is arguing that?

I believe if you change the punctuation from question to a period, you’ll have your answer.

[RJ87]

This whole "he shouldn't be trapped in a situation he didn't choose" is garbage and the ultimate gaslighting.

Who is arguing that?

This is a quote from this thread:

I prefer players to have control in their decisions rather than just stay loyal to a team that is not only incompetent but doesn't respect them.

Durant is in a situation of his own creation. Acting like he's just some guy who this all happened to is disingenuous.

[Roy H.]

This whole "he shouldn't be trapped in a situation he didn't choose" is garbage and the ultimate gaslighting.

Who is arguing that?

This is a quote from this thread:

I prefer players to have control in their decisions rather than just stay loyal to a team that is not only incompetent but doesn't respect them.

Durant is in a situation of his own creation. Acting like he's just some guy who this all happened to is disingenuous.

Well, that quote was from a discussion of Giannis, as compared to players like Lebron, Durant, Kawhi and others.  I don't think Rondo9 ever specifically said that Durant didn't contribute to his situation, or that it's cool to demand a trade with four years left.

As for my own perspective, I think that players should be held to their contracts.  If they want to bolt as free agents, fine, but the idea that they'll sign a max extension and then force their way out a year later is ridiculous.  Teams should be able to sue for breach of contract, including related damages.

But, I think the "Durant is a malcontent, and he'd blow things up on the Celtics" argument (or some variation thereof) is lazy and leaves out relevant data points.  Yes, Brooklyn went horribly last season, after Kyrie went full crazy and refused to play games.  But, the prior season the Nets were title favorites, and almost made it by the Bucks.  That's despite a first year coach and a team that was almost 100% turned over.  And, in Golden State, he fit in seamlessly for awhile, before clashing with Draymond his final year there.  In a world without vaccine mandates, for all we know the Nets are celebrating a title right now.

For any team trading for Durant, I expect him to play well and to focus on winning.  If he's added to a stable, talented, well-run franchise, I expect deep playoff runs, assuming health.

[Roy H.]

Keith Smith @KeithSmithNBA
about 55 minutes ago
Odds on if Kevin Durant will be traded before season starts per @betonline_ag: Yes 3/2 No 1/2 Odds on Kevin Durant's new team IF traded: Celtics 4/7 Suns 7/2 Warriors, Raptors 4/1 Trail Blazers 9/1 Grizzlies 12/1 Clippers 14/1 Hawks, Knicks 16/1 Lakers 18/1 Bulls, Thunder 22/1

I hope none of you are taking those odds.

[Moranis]

Keith Smith @KeithSmithNBA
about 55 minutes ago
Odds on if Kevin Durant will be traded before season starts per @betonline_ag: Yes 3/2 No 1/2 Odds on Kevin Durant's new team IF traded: Celtics 4/7 Suns 7/2 Warriors, Raptors 4/1 Trail Blazers 9/1 Grizzlies 12/1 Clippers 14/1 Hawks, Knicks 16/1 Lakers 18/1 Bulls, Thunder 22/1

I hope none of you are taking those odds.

How are the Suns +350?

Also, when do those odds expire?  It says next team, does that mean this season before it starts, at any time this season, or some future season?

[Vermont Green]

How about Sabonis, Barnes, Mitchell (or Keegan Murray?) plus 3 firsts for Durant?  You are not going to do much better than SAC first round picks.

Kyrie
Harris
Warren
Simmons
Sabonis

The Nets are never going to "win" a trade with Durant but if Durant thinks BKN is mismanaged, then see how he likes it in SAC.  I actually doubt that BKN has reached the point where they really want to trade Durant.  They are probably getting real close now though with this latest chatter.  I predict that they either reach a point where they do accept a trade like this or they don't trade him.  There will be no "king's ransom" trade, just a SAC Kings type of ransom.

Would Durant report to Sacramento?

and why would Sacramento do that?

I don't know if Durant would report and Sacramento is Sacramento.

If Durant wants to play that way, and is going to hold out on BKN and only accept a trade to certain teams, you reach a point where you say fine, if you won't play, we won't pay, just go home then.  At one point there were reports of a trade to MIN being discussed.  Durant probably didn't want to go there either.  He is not really giving BKN many options.

Durant is saying I know I just signed a 4 year contract but I don't want to play for you anymore and I want you to trade me.  Oh, and when you trade me, I only want to go to title contenders and make sure you don't take back too much because I want the team to still be good once I get there.

What exactly is BKN supposed to do with that?  At this point, no one is going to offer what BKN wants.  If there is no trade, what is Durant going to do?  Sit out like Simmons?  Is sitting home not getting paid better than playing for SAC  (Fox and a few other decent players)?

[Celtics2021]

Keith Smith @KeithSmithNBA
about 55 minutes ago
Odds on if Kevin Durant will be traded before season starts per @betonline_ag: Yes 3/2 No 1/2 Odds on Kevin Durant's new team IF traded: Celtics 4/7 Suns 7/2 Warriors, Raptors 4/1 Trail Blazers 9/1 Grizzlies 12/1 Clippers 14/1 Hawks, Knicks 16/1 Lakers 18/1 Bulls, Thunder 22/1

I hope none of you are taking those odds.

How are the Suns +350?

Also, when do those odds expire?  It says next team, does that mean this season before it starts, at any time this season, or some future season?

In the original Keith Smith tweet, it says before start of season.

As for the Suns, they could put together a solid package of cost-controlled players with Mikal Bridges being the best one, and they also control all of their picks.  It’s not what the Nets have sought in an All-Star plus, but they could fill out their roster with players who fit nicely next to Kyrie and Simmons.

Durant reportedly had Phoenix and Miami atop his list, and Phoenix can offer a far better package than Miami.

[Neurotic Guy]

The more I think on it, the more I think it’s a no-lose situation. Though I have doubts that JB,DW and a 1st is really on the table, the Cs roster will be worth getting excited about either way.

How many of you will go into the season angry and brooding if they start the year with KD in the starting lineup?   Seriously - this will be the closest we’ve had to that true contender feeling since 2009-10.  That’s whether the rumored trade goes through or not.

[Kernewek]

The more I think on it, the more I think it’s a no-lose situation. Though I have doubts that JB,DW and a 1st is really on the table, the Cs roster will be worth getting excited about either way.

How many of you will go into the season angry and brooding if they start the year with KD in the starting lineup?   Seriously - this will be the closest we’ve had to that true contender feeling since 2009-10.  That’s whether the rumored trade goes through or not.

I will. It’s been much more fun to root against KD since he left OKC.

[Neurotic Guy]

The more I think on it, the more I think it’s a no-lose situation. Though I have doubts that JB,DW and a 1st is really on the table, the Cs roster will be worth getting excited about either way.

How many of you will go into the season angry and brooding if they start the year with KD in the starting lineup?   Seriously - this will be the closest we’ve had to that true contender feeling since 2009-10.  That’s whether the rumored trade goes through or not.

I will. It’s been much more fun to root against KD since he left OKC.

Hah! Dang - now I want to see what you’ll really do.

[Celtic]

When the season starts Jaylen will be 26, Durant will be 34, unless Jaylen has vocalized that he is not staying, there's no question I'm moving on from KD quickly. He's shown enough to not invest in, this is the Nets problem, not ours.

[Neurotic Guy]

When the season starts Jaylen will be 26, Durant will be 34, unless Jaylen has vocalized that he is not staying, there's no question I'm moving on from KD quickly. He's shown enough to not invest in, this is the Nets problem, not ours.

I agree. But what JB has or hasn’t shared with PBS probably is never going to be known.  So I’ll assume that if a trade is made, Brad had a good reason for doing it. And then I’ll get excited about the roster.