New Celtics / Durant rumor

[radiohead]

https://clutchpoints.com/nets-news-kyrie-irving-spotted-meeting-with-kanye-west-jaylen-brown-amid-agency-move-rumors-season/

This recent report makes this trade rumor all the more believable. There was also a recent interview by JB that he and Kyrie have become good friends. So maybe Kyrie stays in BKN if JB comes over? This trade seems to be very possible. I’m not really a fan but if JB somehow told Brad that he wants out then so be it. If for some reason the deal doesn’t push through, where does this put JB? Will he still be professional enough to play his ass off for the Cs? Or worse, what if he himself was caught off guard with these trade rumors?

[Vermont Green]

Here's a question.

Let's say that Brad has gotten word from Jaylen that he's had enough of Boston and will move on at the end of his contract in two years. 

Who do you we think would be A) obtainable within that timeframe for a Jaylen Brown package; and B) better than Durant, who will be 34 at the start of next season?

Honestly, I'm not thrilled about what this current rumor would do to our window, given KD's age and injury history.  How many years of top-10-ish ball does he have left in him?  Two, maybe three at absolute best, right?  But on the other hand, I'm struggling to come up with guys who I'd prefer over Durant that might become obtainable within the next ~12 months.

You are constructing your whole premise on a hypothetical.  How likely to you think it is that Brown or any player, has declared to his team that he absolutely will not resign in 2 years.  And that there is no way that player is going to change their mind.

I am in the minority but even if those were the signals I was getting, I would still tell Brown we want you here so we are going to try to make it work.  I would also say that there is no guarantee for Brown or any player that they are completely untouchable in trade discussions but that we are going to run this back next season and try to win a title.  If you feel the same in a year, we can reassess (both Brown and the Celtics).

But in reality, no player is going to come right out and say this unless Brown wants to be traded now.  Yeah, I am going to play out my contract but then hit the market.  But if you try to trade me, I will be offended.  No, a player would never reveal that unless they wanted to be traded.  And if he wants to be traded now, he should be happy to hear there are discussions about Durant.

Now if it has gotten beyond "signals" and Brown and the Celtics have had the come to Jesus meeting where Brown said trade me, that is different.  I don't think that is likely, but at that point, I would be happy to get Durant back in the trade, so long as it isn't an overpay.  Durant is actually the perfect cover for this.  The Celtics can make it seem like they want Durant (who wouldn't) not that Brown has demanded a trade.

[SHAQATTACK]

Nets more desperate by the day.  Likely Durant won’t walk back his desires to leave . I say if I’m Nets make him play or sit out. …if their have any backbone at all.

His valve drops as a trade piece as other GM s stare blankly at the office walls. 

Even if Durant and Irvin stay ….it’s still on thin ice for anything more than a playoff spot to occur and the same diva wars starts all over next season ……whine ….” I want out ! “

Who wants to send away giant assets for someone wish washy as Durant who won’t even honor one day of his new contract.

I think the Nets are screwed and should just make them honor their contracts or sit out the season be done with the mess.

[ozgod]

For me, if JB says he won’t or isn’t sure if he will re-up year after next, you make the trade. Otherwise you don’t. 

JB, White, Grant and a 1-2 firsts or JB, Smart and 1 first round pick for KD.

I hope that JB wants to be in Boston long term, but my gut is telling me that he doesn’t. 

Brown would be under no obligation to make a commitment to Boston at this time, and even if he did he can always change his mind. Brad would have to make a judgment call on that.

[Atzar]

Here's a question.

Let's say that Brad has gotten word from Jaylen that he's had enough of Boston and will move on at the end of his contract in two years. 

Who do you we think would be A) obtainable within that timeframe for a Jaylen Brown package; and B) better than Durant, who will be 34 at the start of next season?

Honestly, I'm not thrilled about what this current rumor would do to our window, given KD's age and injury history.  How many years of top-10-ish ball does he have left in him?  Two, maybe three at absolute best, right?  But on the other hand, I'm struggling to come up with guys who I'd prefer over Durant that might become obtainable within the next ~12 months.

You are constructing your whole premise on a hypothetical.  How likely to you think it is that Brown or any player, has declared to his team that he absolutely will not resign in 2 years.  And that there is no way that player is going to change their mind.

I am in the minority but even if those were the signals I was getting, I would still tell Brown we want you here so we are going to try to make it work.  I would also say that there is no guarantee for Brown or any player that they are completely untouchable in trade discussions but that we are going to run this back next season and try to win a title.  If you feel the same in a year, we can reassess (both Brown and the Celtics).

But in reality, no player is going to come right out and say this unless Brown wants to be traded now.  Yeah, I am going to play out my contract but then hit the market.  But if you try to trade me, I will be offended.  No, a player would never reveal that unless they wanted to be traded.  And if he wants to be traded now, he should be happy to hear there are discussions about Durant.

Now if it has gotten beyond "signals" and Brown and the Celtics have had the come to Jesus meeting where Brown said trade me, that is different.  I don't think that is likely, but at that point, I would be happy to get Durant back in the trade, so long as it isn't an overpay.  Durant is actually the perfect cover for this.  The Celtics can make it seem like they want Durant (who wouldn't) not that Brown has demanded a trade.

What premise?  I'm asking a question:  if Jaylen wants out, who could shake loose in the next two years that is a better return than Durant right now? 

No offense but your last paragraph is the only one that is even relevant to my question, lol.  I'm not asking whether people think Jaylen is actually 'disgruntled' or whether we can repair the relationship or whatever because nobody on this website can answer that with any authority. 

[ozgod]

I'm in the "I don't trade Brown unless I'm certain that he isn't resigning" camp.

I'm curious, how do you define "certain"?

One of Danny's mistakes was not trading Kyrie when it looked very likely that he was on the way out.  Does "certain" only apply to 100%, or is it more loose, like 80% certain?

I'm in the "more likely than not" group.  If there's a 51% chance JB is leaving, I'd deal him for Durant.

Exactly…there are no certainties - only probabilities. Everyone is entitled to change their minds until they sign a legal document. And even then they change their minds 

Brad would have to make a judgment call based on the probabilities. Right now it’s pretty much impossible for any of us to know if Jaylen will stay or not.

[Kernewek]

Honestly if Marcus Smart is the player that is preventing this from happening I'm somewhat shocked.

I'd argue that White is more valuable if we get KD. Smart and KD in the same locker room to me would be a ticking time bomb. No chance those two can coexist.

White knows his role on this team, and with a core of KD and Tatum we need guys that are just that - those who know their roles.. Smart unfortunately is not, and has never been that player.

Again, i would NOT trade Jaylen for KD to begin with - but now I feel like we are forced to. If Smart is the piece preventing it from happening, if everything else is equal, to me is idiotic.

That’s why I think this really may happen. It doesn’t seem that the counter is far off from the original offer - if the reporting is accurate. Seems to me if both sides want something to happen they’re close enough that it will.

The thing thats ironic is how there have been multiple reports through the years of Smart and Brown clashing and not getting along, again speculation but with enough 'evidence' that kind of backs the theory.

The Nets want to keep them paired? If the goal is to get (and retain) Brown - you want to trade him with the guy he already can't stand?

Thats why the Nets are the Nets.

The Nets just showcased one of the softest products in NBA history. They’re now looking to improve by getting two of the toughest players in the league. They want to trade two soft players (KD and Seth Curry) to get this done.

Why would Boston bail them out? As conciliatory act for the Paul Pierce/KG heist?

This trade makes the Celtics worse in the short term and long term.

This is silly. KD doesn’t make the Cs worse. He’s legit a top 5 guy in the league. You can certainly debate on the cost of getting him but saying KD makes the Cs worse is crazy talk. He’s have a KG like impact on this team and elevate everyone else, including JT.

KD is not KG from a leadership and mental standpoint, not even close. There's no denying his skill set, but he has the mental toughness of a paper towel. Bolts OKC after GSW comes back on them, bolts GSW after his Draymond tiff, gbolting Brooklyn because they wouldn't pay his buddy (after getting a good coach fired at that), social media spats with fans and pundits, and even burner accounts to defend himself.

KG was unique in the sense of how much he wanted to win a title. That guy cared about winning above everything else. KD is a diva and that's what we'd get. He may change the culture but as he's shown in Brooklyn, it won't be like KG did.

I'm not sure on this. I think KD wanted to win a title more than KG, to be honest - otherwise he wouldn't have run to join GSW when he was a top 5 player, something I can't imagine prime KG doing.

Now, having said that, I do think Durant is probably the most visibly insecure NBA superstar we've ever seen, and I still don't think he's such a needle mover that he's worth the asking price at age 34, but I'm not a talent evaluator, I guess.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Here's a question.

Let's say that Brad has gotten word from Jaylen that he's had enough of Boston and will move on at the end of his contract in two years. 

Who do you we think would be A) obtainable within that timeframe for a Jaylen Brown package; and B) better than Durant, who will be 34 at the start of next season?

Honestly, I'm not thrilled about what this current rumor would do to our window, given KD's age and injury history.  How many years of top-10-ish ball does he have left in him?  Two, maybe three at absolute best, right?  But on the other hand, I'm struggling to come up with guys who I'd prefer over Durant that might become obtainable within the next ~12 months.

I mean in theory we can create the list based on the rumors of teams that were interested in KD:
Phx - Ayton & Bridges
Miami - Herro & BAM
GS - Wiggins and Poole
Nola - Was Zion on the table?
Was - Gotta assume we could get Beal for Brown

who else was rumored?

I wouldn't take any of those packages over Durant though.  Would you?

I guess Zion is an exception to that statement, but I get the sense that he was never actually as available as the media pretended.  They wanted him to force his way to a bigger market so badly that they tried to speak it into existence, only for him to sign his extension in New Orleans anyway.

I'd take Wiggins and his future over KD's future. He showed me something in the Finals. I guess we can call him a late bloomer, but I think its possible that he has a similar career to JB going forward.

There has to be some type of compensation for the Celtics giving up on their future for the now. Is it really malcontent KD?

[Vermont Green]

I'd take Wiggins and his future over KD's future. He showed me something in the Finals. I guess we can call him a late bloomer, but I think its possible that he has a similar career to JB going forward.

There has to be some type of compensation for the Celtics giving up on their future for the now. Is it really malcontent KD?

Say hypothetically that you apply Wiggins trajectory to Brown.  How much better may Brown get?  Or even Tatum?  These are really young players.

I agree that Wiggins has come around but it just makes me even more optimistic about what we have in Tatum and Brown.  I don't think we are going to see the same level of delayed maturation in Brown and Tatum but there is still quite a bit of ceiling in these players.

[RJ87]

Here's a question.

Let's say that Brad has gotten word from Jaylen that he's had enough of Boston and will move on at the end of his contract in two years. 

Who do you we think would be A) obtainable within that timeframe for a Jaylen Brown package; and B) better than Durant, who will be 34 at the start of next season?

Honestly, I'm not thrilled about what this current rumor would do to our window, given KD's age and injury history.  How many years of top-10-ish ball does he have left in him?  Two, maybe three at absolute best, right?  But on the other hand, I'm struggling to come up with guys who I'd prefer over Durant that might become obtainable within the next ~12 months.

I mean in theory we can create the list based on the rumors of teams that were interested in KD:
Phx - Ayton & Bridges
Miami - Herro & BAM
GS - Wiggins and Poole
Nola - Was Zion on the table?
Was - Gotta assume we could get Beal for Brown

who else was rumored?

I wouldn't take any of those packages over Durant though.  Would you?

I guess Zion is an exception to that statement, but I get the sense that he was never actually as available as the media pretended.  They wanted him to force his way to a bigger market so badly that they tried to speak it into existence, only for him to sign his extension in New Orleans anyway.

I'd take Wiggins and his future over KD's future. He showed me something in the Finals. I guess we can call him a late bloomer, but I think its possible that he has a similar career to JB going forward.

There has to be some type of compensation for the Celtics giving up on their future for the now. Is it really malcontent KD?

I don't know if Wiggins is a late bloomer as much as he went to a situation that was better for him. In Minny, he was expected to be a franchise cornerstone + a top scoring option and the leadership there wasn't great. GSW has great coaching, a better system, and they simplified his role: play tough defense and be opportunistic on the offensive end. Credit to him for buying in, but he's always had mishandled potential.

[angryguy77]

If JT is going to be as great as many seem to think, we can rebuild around him after KD retires.  Win a ring or 2 with KD, and other good players will want to come and play with Tatum.

On the fence myself, but it might not be as big of a gamble as some think.

[Smartacus]

Crazy morning. Most of what I'd say has been said but one thing that I do think is being overlooked is just how good Kevin Durant is currently and how good of a match he is with Tatum.

All emotions aside Durant covers one of the last weakness's that Tatum has in his game and that is end of the game half court shot creation. A successful big 2 of Durant and Tatum looks like Tatum crushing his matchup for the first 40 minutes of the game and Durant being ungaurdable in the last 8, with the massive front court and solid guard rotation that could be a true championship contender and not a finals contender like the current roster.

Jaylen has a scoring mentality throughout the game but, like Tatum, he struggles to find his own shot when the elite defenses clamp up. Durant on the other hand can score on anyone.

The Smart inclusion makes this deal tough not because Marcus himself the person and player is too important to be traded but because it skews the value of the return too far back in the Nets favor. If the deal can be done without Smart at this point I believe it is time.

I would miss Brown and thank him for his service but would also be over the moon to finally start the Durant in Green era. If we can keep Smart out of the deal, sign me up. Lets go get the chip.

[Bobshot]

I'm starting to read the NY media's response to this Woj trade rumor.
Naturally, it's negative, since they are usually hostile to anything Boston.

But it may be the best deal the Nets ultimately get for a guy who is overly paid at his age and increasingly fragile.
In fact, I'm surprised the Celtics are interested in trading Brown--perhaps the rumors about him are true.

The Nets, of course, are holding out for all they can get. They want Smart, too, and that may be a dealbreaker.
I wouldn't deal two frontline players for KD at his age.

The Celtics may feel they need to do something big to get over the hump. They are close as is.
But they've gotten better with Brogden and Gallinari, so maybe they have enough left over to swing a deal.

[RJ87]

If JT is going to be as great as many seem to think, we can rebuild around him after KD retires.  Win a ring or 2 with KD, and other good players will want to come and play with Tatum.

On the fence myself, but it might not be as big of a gamble as some think.

I think on talent, a Durant/JT team should be a contender. But we've seen chemistry take down talented teams before (see: Boston Celtics, 2018-2019). We finally have a team where the chemistry is right and guys are buying in to potentially bring in a guy who seems to be cranky no matter what.

[Roy H.]

Here's a question.

Let's say that Brad has gotten word from Jaylen that he's had enough of Boston and will move on at the end of his contract in two years. 

Who do you we think would be A) obtainable within that timeframe for a Jaylen Brown package; and B) better than Durant, who will be 34 at the start of next season?

Honestly, I'm not thrilled about what this current rumor would do to our window, given KD's age and injury history.  How many years of top-10-ish ball does he have left in him?  Two, maybe three at absolute best, right?  But on the other hand, I'm struggling to come up with guys who I'd prefer over Durant that might become obtainable within the next ~12 months.

I mean in theory we can create the list based on the rumors of teams that were interested in KD:
Phx - Ayton & Bridges
Miami - Herro & BAM
GS - Wiggins and Poole
Nola - Was Zion on the table?
Was - Gotta assume we could get Beal for Brown

who else was rumored?

I wouldn't take any of those packages over Durant though.  Would you?

I guess Zion is an exception to that statement, but I get the sense that he was never actually as available as the media pretended.  They wanted him to force his way to a bigger market so badly that they tried to speak it into existence, only for him to sign his extension in New Orleans anyway.

I'd take Wiggins and his future over KD's future. He showed me something in the Finals. I guess we can call him a late bloomer, but I think its possible that he has a similar career to JB going forward.

There has to be some type of compensation for the Celtics giving up on their future for the now. Is it really malcontent KD?

I don't know if Wiggins is a late bloomer as much as he went to a situation that was better for him. In Minny, he was expected to be a franchise cornerstone + a top scoring option and the leadership there wasn't great. GSW has great coaching, a better system, and they simplified his role: play tough defense and be opportunistic on the offensive end. Credit to him for buying in, but he's always had mishandled potential.

Wiggins after the all-star break last season:  15.7 points, 5.1 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 42.5% FG%,  33.7% 3PT%, 56.3% FT%, .502 TS%, 102 ORtg, 112 DRtg

This is the guy some want to build around?  A mediocre player who is going to demand the 5-year max?