TNT’s Ultimate NBA Draft

[Ogaju]

Sue Bird.

Seriously, you've got Lebron, Larry, Jokic, KG, and Nash as the potential starters?  Brow and Worthy first off the bench?

What does "WC" stand for?

WC stands for Wild Card..

[liam]

Sue Bird.

Seriously, you've got Lebron, Larry, Jokic, KG, and Nash as the potential starters?  Brow and Worthy first off the bench?

What does "WC" stand for?

WC stands for Wild Card..

That might be the best rebounding, shooting, passing team.

[Moranis]

I know there is only 1 basketball, but I'd love to see West's team actually play.  I'm not sure anyone could really stop them from scoring and they have the greatest distributor ever to run things.

PG - Stockton, Sharman
SG - Kobe, Hondo
SF - Baylor, Melo
PF - Barkley, Thurmond
C - Chamberlain, Robinson


And while I think Hughley's team has some positional issues, it would be such a match-up nightmare with the size

PG - Payton, Kidd
SG - McGrady, Bing
SF - Dirk, Lucas
PF - Duncan, McHale
C - Hakeem, Walton

[Roy H.]

G: Magic Johnson, Damian Lillard
G: Michael Jordan, Ray Allen
F: Kawhi Leonard, Rick Barry, Paul Arizin
F: Chris Bosh
C: Bill Russell, Willis Reed

G: LeBron James, Steve Nash
G: Sam Jones, Pete Maravich
F: Larry Bird, James Worthy
F: Kevin Garnett, Dave DeBusschere
C: Nikola Jokic, Anthony Davis

I think I'd start Worthy at SG here.  Guarding assignments:

Lebron guards Jordan
KG guards Magic
Jokic guards Bosh
Worthy guards Russell
Bird guard Kawhi

Kawhi on Lebron
Bosh on KG
Russell on Jokic
Magic on Bird
Jordan on Worthy

It's depth where I think Team Bird gains some separation.  In terms of starting lineups, though, there's one weak link:  Russell on offense.  A big man who shot 44% for his career isn't going to be able to consistently score in this league.  It means it's effectively 4-on-5 out there, and I really can't see that not becoming an issue.

If you go straight positional analysis:

Jokic outscores Russell
KG is even with Bosh offensively
Bird is even with Kawhi
Worthy is outscored by Jordan
Lebron outscores Magic

So, is the mismatch offensively between Jordan and Worthy greater than the advantage of Jokic + Lebron over Magic + Russell?  I don't think it is.

[Roy H.]

I know there is only 1 basketball, but I'd love to see West's team actually play.  I'm not sure anyone could really stop them from scoring and they have the greatest distributor ever to run things.

PG - Stockton, Sharman
SG - Kobe, Hondo
SF - Baylor, Melo
PF - Barkley, Thurmond
C - Chamberlain, Robinson

Kobe + Wilt would be ugly on the eyes.  You've got two selfish, inefficient (by modern standards) guys hogging the ball.  I wonder how effective a guy like Stockton even is here, having the ball taken out of his hands so much?

[liam]

I know there is only 1 basketball, but I'd love to see West's team actually play.  I'm not sure anyone could really stop them from scoring and they have the greatest distributor ever to run things.

PG - Stockton, Sharman
SG - Kobe, Hondo
SF - Baylor, Melo
PF - Barkley, Thurmond
C - Chamberlain, Robinson

Kobe + Wilt would be ugly on the eyes.  You've got two selfish, inefficient (by modern standards) guys hogging the ball.  I wonder how effective a guy like Stockton even is here, having the ball taken out of his hands so much?

I'd take Mark Price over Stockton any day. If health is no concern I wonder why no Bernard King. Healthy McHale before the broken feet is also an awesome two-way player. I'm also wondering about the fit of all these All-Star players. That Bird team has the most guys that make others better.

[Roy H.]

Best season:

Nash:  .654 TS%
Jokic: .653 TS%
Lebron: .649 TS%
Worthy: .613 TS%
Bird: .612 TS%
Davis:  .612 TS%
KG: .589 TS%

That's filthy.

[gouki88]

Sue Bird or According to Sources. Both those teams would be epic

[nickagneta]

G: Magic Johnson, Damian Lillard
G: Michael Jordan, Ray Allen
F: Kawhi Leonard, Rick Barry, Paul Arizin
F: Chris Bosh
C: Bill Russell, Willis Reed

G: LeBron James, Steve Nash
G: Sam Jones, Pete Maravich
F: Larry Bird, James Worthy
F: Kevin Garnett, Dave DeBusschere
C: Nikola Jokic, Anthony Davis

I think I'd start Worthy at SG here.  Guarding assignments:

Lebron guards Jordan
KG guards Magic
Jokic guards Bosh
Worthy guards Russell
Bird guard Kawhi

Kawhi on Lebron
Bosh on KG
Russell on Jokic
Magic on Bird
Jordan on Worthy

It's depth where I think Team Bird gains some separation.  In terms of starting lineups, though, there's one weak link:  Russell on offense.  A big man who shot 44% for his career isn't going to be able to consistently score in this league.  It means it's effectively 4-on-5 out there, and I really can't see that not becoming an issue.

If you go straight positional analysis:

Jokic outscores Russell
KG is even with Bosh offensively
Bird is even with Kawhi
Worthy is outscored by Jordan
Lebron outscores Magic

So, is the mismatch offensively between Jordan and Worthy greater than the advantage of Jokic + Lebron over Magic + Russell?  I don't think it is.

Russell's FG% is low compared to modern times, but for many years of his career he was in the top 5 in the league in FG%.

'57 - 5th
'58 - 4th
'59 - 2nd
'60 - 4th
'61 - 22nd
'62 - 14th
'63 - 38th
'64 - 22nd
'65 - 24th
'67 - 25th

Russell's shooting and efficiency numbers were way over league average for the first half of his career and around average towards the end.

Bringing him into the modern game with modern coaching and trading, he would most likely be at or near the top of shooting and scoring and not a guy that you would could to be a nothing on offense.

[liam]

Best season:

Nash:  .654 TS%
Jokic: .653 TS%
Lebron: .649 TS%
Worthy: .613 TS%
Bird: .612 TS%
Davis:  .612 TS%
KG: .589 TS%

That's filthy.

Yeah, that team would just be amazing. Sue Bird knows her stuff.

[Roy H.]

G: Magic Johnson, Damian Lillard
G: Michael Jordan, Ray Allen
F: Kawhi Leonard, Rick Barry, Paul Arizin
F: Chris Bosh
C: Bill Russell, Willis Reed

G: LeBron James, Steve Nash
G: Sam Jones, Pete Maravich
F: Larry Bird, James Worthy
F: Kevin Garnett, Dave DeBusschere
C: Nikola Jokic, Anthony Davis

I think I'd start Worthy at SG here.  Guarding assignments:

Lebron guards Jordan
KG guards Magic
Jokic guards Bosh
Worthy guards Russell
Bird guard Kawhi

Kawhi on Lebron
Bosh on KG
Russell on Jokic
Magic on Bird
Jordan on Worthy

It's depth where I think Team Bird gains some separation.  In terms of starting lineups, though, there's one weak link:  Russell on offense.  A big man who shot 44% for his career isn't going to be able to consistently score in this league.  It means it's effectively 4-on-5 out there, and I really can't see that not becoming an issue.

If you go straight positional analysis:

Jokic outscores Russell
KG is even with Bosh offensively
Bird is even with Kawhi
Worthy is outscored by Jordan
Lebron outscores Magic

So, is the mismatch offensively between Jordan and Worthy greater than the advantage of Jokic + Lebron over Magic + Russell?  I don't think it is.

Russell's FG% is low compared to modern times, but for many years of his career he was in the top 5 in the league in FG%.

'57 - 5th
'58 - 4th
'59 - 2nd
'60 - 4th
'61 - 22nd
'62 - 14th
'63 - 38th
'64 - 22nd
'65 - 24th
'67 - 25th

Russell's shooting and efficiency numbers were way over league average for the first half of his career and around average towards the end.

Bringing him into the modern game with modern coaching and trading, he would most likely be at or near the top of shooting and scoring and not a guy that you would could to be a nothing on offense.

I'm not sure that I buy it in this case.  Russell had an athletic advantage over just about every player he played.  He still only shot 43%, because he had lousy touch around the basket.  That's not something that is going to necessarily be better by modern training.

Russell could play defense in any era.  He's the best defensive player of all-time, and top three in rebounding.  Offensively, I don't think that's the case.  He averaged less than 12.8 points per 36 minutes for his career.  You're not going to convince me that he wouldn't be a negative in a league full of Hall of Famers.  I haven't looked at every name, but unless Rodman made the list, Russell is probably the worst offensive player here, by a long shot.

[nickagneta]

G: Magic Johnson, Damian Lillard
G: Michael Jordan, Ray Allen
F: Kawhi Leonard, Rick Barry, Paul Arizin
F: Chris Bosh
C: Bill Russell, Willis Reed

G: LeBron James, Steve Nash
G: Sam Jones, Pete Maravich
F: Larry Bird, James Worthy
F: Kevin Garnett, Dave DeBusschere
C: Nikola Jokic, Anthony Davis

I think I'd start Worthy at SG here.  Guarding assignments:

Lebron guards Jordan
KG guards Magic
Jokic guards Bosh
Worthy guards Russell
Bird guard Kawhi

Kawhi on Lebron
Bosh on KG
Russell on Jokic
Magic on Bird
Jordan on Worthy

It's depth where I think Team Bird gains some separation.  In terms of starting lineups, though, there's one weak link:  Russell on offense.  A big man who shot 44% for his career isn't going to be able to consistently score in this league.  It means it's effectively 4-on-5 out there, and I really can't see that not becoming an issue.

If you go straight positional analysis:

Jokic outscores Russell
KG is even with Bosh offensively
Bird is even with Kawhi
Worthy is outscored by Jordan
Lebron outscores Magic

So, is the mismatch offensively between Jordan and Worthy greater than the advantage of Jokic + Lebron over Magic + Russell?  I don't think it is.

Russell's FG% is low compared to modern times, but for many years of his career he was in the top 5 in the league in FG%.

'57 - 5th
'58 - 4th
'59 - 2nd
'60 - 4th
'61 - 22nd
'62 - 14th
'63 - 38th
'64 - 22nd
'65 - 24th
'67 - 25th

Russell's shooting and efficiency numbers were way over league average for the first half of his career and around average towards the end.

Bringing him into the modern game with modern coaching and trading, he would most likely be at or near the top of shooting and scoring and not a guy that you would could to be a nothing on offense.

I'm not sure that I buy it in this case.  Russell had an athletic advantage over just about every player he played.  He still only shot 43%, because he had lousy touch around the basket.  That's not something that is going to necessarily be better by modern training.

Russell could play defense in any era.  He's the best defensive player of all-time, and top three in rebounding.  Offensively, I don't think that's the case.  He averaged less than 12.8 points per 36 minutes for his career.  You're not going to convince me that he wouldn't be a negative in a league full of Hall of Famers.  I haven't looked at every name, but unless Rodman made the list, Russell is probably the worst offensive player here, by a long shot.

Russell in today's game would easily be as good on alley oops as Timelord. The guy was one of the top FG% guys of his early generation. In today's atmosphere, Russell would be one of the best rolling guys on P&RS and an amazing rim runner on the fast break. A fast break led by Magic and MJ.

I find it unfathomable that someone would think Russell's game wouldn't grow and be better utilized in today's game.

[gouki88]

G: Magic Johnson, Damian Lillard
G: Michael Jordan, Ray Allen
F: Kawhi Leonard, Rick Barry, Paul Arizin
F: Chris Bosh
C: Bill Russell, Willis Reed

G: LeBron James, Steve Nash
G: Sam Jones, Pete Maravich
F: Larry Bird, James Worthy
F: Kevin Garnett, Dave DeBusschere
C: Nikola Jokic, Anthony Davis

I think I'd start Worthy at SG here.  Guarding assignments:

Lebron guards Jordan
KG guards Magic
Jokic guards Bosh
Worthy guards Russell
Bird guard Kawhi

Kawhi on Lebron
Bosh on KG
Russell on Jokic
Magic on Bird
Jordan on Worthy

It's depth where I think Team Bird gains some separation.  In terms of starting lineups, though, there's one weak link:  Russell on offense.  A big man who shot 44% for his career isn't going to be able to consistently score in this league.  It means it's effectively 4-on-5 out there, and I really can't see that not becoming an issue.

If you go straight positional analysis:

Jokic outscores Russell
KG is even with Bosh offensively
Bird is even with Kawhi
Worthy is outscored by Jordan
Lebron outscores Magic

So, is the mismatch offensively between Jordan and Worthy greater than the advantage of Jokic + Lebron over Magic + Russell?  I don't think it is.

Russell's FG% is low compared to modern times, but for many years of his career he was in the top 5 in the league in FG%.

'57 - 5th
'58 - 4th
'59 - 2nd
'60 - 4th
'61 - 22nd
'62 - 14th
'63 - 38th
'64 - 22nd
'65 - 24th
'67 - 25th

Russell's shooting and efficiency numbers were way over league average for the first half of his career and around average towards the end.

Bringing him into the modern game with modern coaching and trading, he would most likely be at or near the top of shooting and scoring and not a guy that you would could to be a nothing on offense.

I'm not sure that I buy it in this case.  Russell had an athletic advantage over just about every player he played.  He still only shot 43%, because he had lousy touch around the basket.  That's not something that is going to necessarily be better by modern training.

Russell could play defense in any era.  He's the best defensive player of all-time, and top three in rebounding.  Offensively, I don't think that's the case.  He averaged less than 12.8 points per 36 minutes for his career.  You're not going to convince me that he wouldn't be a negative in a league full of Hall of Famers.  I haven't looked at every name, but unless Rodman made the list, Russell is probably the worst offensive player here, by a long shot.

I think the lack of a coaching emphasis on efficiency in the 60s is certainly something that contributes to this. Russell at his best was capable of ~18ppg and ~5apg on 45% shooting, or thereabouts. Couple that with an ungodly ability to grab offensive rebounds and I don't doubt for a second that he could average 20ppg comfortably in the modern game with the said modern emphasis on efficiency.

Rudy Gobert does not have any sort of touch, yet is averaging 16ppg on 71% shooting from the field, and he has no passing at all compared to Russell.

Russell might not have the individual offence to compare to lots of the others on that list, but I don't think anyone on that list is a complementary a player to just about anyone as Russell is. His passing is wildly overlooked.

[Roy H.]

G: Magic Johnson, Damian Lillard
G: Michael Jordan, Ray Allen
F: Kawhi Leonard, Rick Barry, Paul Arizin
F: Chris Bosh
C: Bill Russell, Willis Reed

G: LeBron James, Steve Nash
G: Sam Jones, Pete Maravich
F: Larry Bird, James Worthy
F: Kevin Garnett, Dave DeBusschere
C: Nikola Jokic, Anthony Davis

I think I'd start Worthy at SG here.  Guarding assignments:

Lebron guards Jordan
KG guards Magic
Jokic guards Bosh
Worthy guards Russell
Bird guard Kawhi

Kawhi on Lebron
Bosh on KG
Russell on Jokic
Magic on Bird
Jordan on Worthy

It's depth where I think Team Bird gains some separation.  In terms of starting lineups, though, there's one weak link:  Russell on offense.  A big man who shot 44% for his career isn't going to be able to consistently score in this league.  It means it's effectively 4-on-5 out there, and I really can't see that not becoming an issue.

If you go straight positional analysis:

Jokic outscores Russell
KG is even with Bosh offensively
Bird is even with Kawhi
Worthy is outscored by Jordan
Lebron outscores Magic

So, is the mismatch offensively between Jordan and Worthy greater than the advantage of Jokic + Lebron over Magic + Russell?  I don't think it is.

Russell's FG% is low compared to modern times, but for many years of his career he was in the top 5 in the league in FG%.

'57 - 5th
'58 - 4th
'59 - 2nd
'60 - 4th
'61 - 22nd
'62 - 14th
'63 - 38th
'64 - 22nd
'65 - 24th
'67 - 25th

Russell's shooting and efficiency numbers were way over league average for the first half of his career and around average towards the end.

Bringing him into the modern game with modern coaching and trading, he would most likely be at or near the top of shooting and scoring and not a guy that you would could to be a nothing on offense.

I'm not sure that I buy it in this case.  Russell had an athletic advantage over just about every player he played.  He still only shot 43%, because he had lousy touch around the basket.  That's not something that is going to necessarily be better by modern training.

Russell could play defense in any era.  He's the best defensive player of all-time, and top three in rebounding.  Offensively, I don't think that's the case.  He averaged less than 12.8 points per 36 minutes for his career.  You're not going to convince me that he wouldn't be a negative in a league full of Hall of Famers.  I haven't looked at every name, but unless Rodman made the list, Russell is probably the worst offensive player here, by a long shot.

Russell in today's game would easily be as good on alley oops as Timelord. The guy was one of the top FG% guys of his early generation. In today's atmosphere, Russell would be one of the best rolling guys on P&RS and an amazing rim runner on the fast break. A fast break led by Magic and MJ.

I find it unfathomable that someone would think Russell's game wouldn't grow and be better utilized in today's game.

I'm not sure that anybody said that, but "he'd easily be as good on alley oops as Timelord" doesn't really convince me that he'd be able to hold his own offensively in a league of all-time greats.

[Roy H.]

G: Magic Johnson, Damian Lillard
G: Michael Jordan, Ray Allen
F: Kawhi Leonard, Rick Barry, Paul Arizin
F: Chris Bosh
C: Bill Russell, Willis Reed

G: LeBron James, Steve Nash
G: Sam Jones, Pete Maravich
F: Larry Bird, James Worthy
F: Kevin Garnett, Dave DeBusschere
C: Nikola Jokic, Anthony Davis

I think I'd start Worthy at SG here.  Guarding assignments:

Lebron guards Jordan
KG guards Magic
Jokic guards Bosh
Worthy guards Russell
Bird guard Kawhi

Kawhi on Lebron
Bosh on KG
Russell on Jokic
Magic on Bird
Jordan on Worthy

It's depth where I think Team Bird gains some separation.  In terms of starting lineups, though, there's one weak link:  Russell on offense.  A big man who shot 44% for his career isn't going to be able to consistently score in this league.  It means it's effectively 4-on-5 out there, and I really can't see that not becoming an issue.

If you go straight positional analysis:

Jokic outscores Russell
KG is even with Bosh offensively
Bird is even with Kawhi
Worthy is outscored by Jordan
Lebron outscores Magic

So, is the mismatch offensively between Jordan and Worthy greater than the advantage of Jokic + Lebron over Magic + Russell?  I don't think it is.

Russell's FG% is low compared to modern times, but for many years of his career he was in the top 5 in the league in FG%.

'57 - 5th
'58 - 4th
'59 - 2nd
'60 - 4th
'61 - 22nd
'62 - 14th
'63 - 38th
'64 - 22nd
'65 - 24th
'67 - 25th

Russell's shooting and efficiency numbers were way over league average for the first half of his career and around average towards the end.

Bringing him into the modern game with modern coaching and trading, he would most likely be at or near the top of shooting and scoring and not a guy that you would could to be a nothing on offense.

I'm not sure that I buy it in this case.  Russell had an athletic advantage over just about every player he played.  He still only shot 43%, because he had lousy touch around the basket.  That's not something that is going to necessarily be better by modern training.

Russell could play defense in any era.  He's the best defensive player of all-time, and top three in rebounding.  Offensively, I don't think that's the case.  He averaged less than 12.8 points per 36 minutes for his career.  You're not going to convince me that he wouldn't be a negative in a league full of Hall of Famers.  I haven't looked at every name, but unless Rodman made the list, Russell is probably the worst offensive player here, by a long shot.

I think the lack of a coaching emphasis on efficiency in the 60s is certainly something that contributes to this. Russell at his best was capable of ~18ppg and ~5apg on 45% shooting, or thereabouts. Couple that with an ungodly ability to grab offensive rebounds and I don't doubt for a second that he could average 20ppg comfortably in the modern game with the said modern emphasis on efficiency.

Rudy Gobert does not have any sort of touch, yet is averaging 16ppg on 71% shooting from the field, and he has no passing at all compared to Russell.

Russell might not have the individual offence to compare to lots of the others on that list, but I don't think anyone on that list is a complementary a player to just about anyone as Russell is. His passing is wildly overlooked.

Keep in mind that was 18 / 5 (at his height) when he was playing 45 minutes per game, in the 1960s where there weren't sophisticated defenses, either.  In the modern era he wouldn't have the athleticism advantage that he did back then, either.

I don't know.  Scoring 15 points per 36 minutes (which was a career high) on 45.7% shooting (second to best in his career) against basic defenses with less athletic defenders suggest to me that he'd be anything other than Ben Wallace offensively today.  Defensively, he's like Wallace combined with Rodman, except a bit bigger and more athletic.  But offensively, he's probably a mix of those two, as well.