Author Topic: What about Brad?  (Read 14053 times)

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Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2022, 06:48:09 AM »

Offline ozgod

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I like Brad's moves, but they've come at a price.

Horford for Kemba is an upgrade, but it cost you a first.

Richardson for White is an upgrade, but it cost you a first.

Schroder was fine, but honestly flipping him for an overpaid but fine player in Theis isn't some amazing move to me. Brining in kanter at all was questionable.

So his moves have been good, but they've bene more like singles or doubles so far

I'm ok with singles or doubles instead of swinging for the fences all the time and sometimes hitting a home run, other times getting caught out, and other times striking out swinging at curveballs or striking out looking because you didn't swing. It's the NBA, not everyone is a naive GM that can be fleeced. If we have to pay a price, or make a move that is akin to going one step backward and one step sideways to go 2 steps forward, but we improve our team overall, works for me.

I'm ok with singles as long as we're advancing the runners  :police:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2022, 06:56:18 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I hate what BS has done. To me he has sacrificed too much for lateral moves and never addressed the shooting woes.

So far we've won more than we've lost post trade deadline and we've beat Philly so I imagine most of us are pretty happy with the moves.

Theis is a big upgrade over Freedom on D.   White I can see the argument more but he makes his team mates better.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 08:47:05 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2022, 07:37:55 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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I hate what BS has done. To me he has sacrificed too much for lateral moves and never addressed the shooting woes.

So far we've won more than we've lost post trade deadline and we've beat Philly so I imagine most of us are pretty happy with the moves.

You can come to different conclusions if you consider how the deadline trades affected this season or how the trades will impact us over the next 2-3 seasons.  For this season, trading Richardson created a need at bench wing.  White should be a good player for several seasons and is a near term upgrade over Schroder but for right now, the trade created a hole.  Not a catastrophic issue, but an issue.

We will probably solve the back up wing issue in the off season and from that point forward, we will be in much better shape.  A back up wing should not be all that hard of a player to get.  That can be fixed, it may even be fixed this season by picking up a buy out but probably not at this point.

I think everything is going to work out just fine.  And as far as "more shooters", the only place we need more shooting is a starting level big who can shoot.  We have two of the best scoring wings in the league and now 2 rock solid combo guards.  If we had even an average starting PF who was an average shooter/scorer to go with RWill and his 70% dunk rate, we could be a top 10 offense in the league.

Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2022, 07:44:44 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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The Timelord extension was excellent, the Smart extension fine, the Thompson trade good (though I don't know why we didn't just acquire Wright), and the Richardson deal / extension very good. I'm not a fan of the Horford deal -- I don't like trading 1sts if a star isn't coming in -- but I guess I understand why it was done (if Kemba's bruised ego was simply unbearable for the locker room) so I'd give that a "C" not an "F".

But I thought Brad's first trade deadline was awful --  gave him a "D". Put this in tonite's game thread:

Quote
My knife's been out for the White and Theis trades from the start. Liked the team better before the deadline, save for Schroder -- who needed outta here to hunt shots somewhere else (just trade him for a 2nd round pick... it's not complicated).

Brad opened the kimono to his inexperience. I think the Cs took a long-term step back, and I'm disappointed.



What didn’t you like about the Theis trade? Theis for Schroder, Bruno and Kanter seems fair. Now we have a backup 4/5 with decent size at 6’9” who has already been in Boston and played well.

In regards to the White trade, I think it was an overpay, but sometimes you have to do that if you believe the player is a great fit. I don’t think he’s a huge upgrade in terms of talent, but I think Brad valued having another proven point guard with size that can defend at a high level. I’d imagine finding another 3 and D guy is easier than finding a backup PG. Even though Richardson isn’t a point guard, I would have loved to keep him and used the TPE to get White instead.

Having a rotation of Smart, Brown, Tatum, Horford, Timelord with White, Richardson, Grant, Theis off the bench would have given the C’s a lot of depth.

Here's what I see:

Brad Stevens traded Denis Schroder, Josh Richardson, Romeo Langford (all flexible to very flexible pieces) and two first round picks for $26-27MM in commitments for the next several seasons for two back-ups. Yes, I know one was a pick swap -- the risk there outweighs the reward, IMO.

You can argue whether White is a back-up, but i think he's the definition of one. He's a small energy guy who excels at nothing and struggles with shooting (as a guard, no less). Upon seeing his downward shooting trend, Pop realized as much and shipped him during the first year of his pricey extension. And Schroder and Richardson are capable back-ups themselves, while Langford has the makings of one.

I think that's poor General Management, especially after sending out our first rounder last year. It's a star driven league -- good teams compile assets like these and / or good players they hit on the draft to acquire difference makers, not Daniel Theis and Derrick White. If the right deal as such doesn't present itself, patience is required -- especially for a team as young as the Cs. You may need to pick well and develop in house. Our hit rate in the draft, is not high in the regard -- but i don't that's an excuse to throw in the towel.

I hear all the talk about fit etc. That White's shooting will rebound and so on. I'm not buyin' it. I find it very hard to conceive of how White and Theis move the needle on this team -- which is still a key piece or two away from serious contention -- at all. Again, the Spurs know White better than anyone. And Theis -- much as he's beloved -- is just a bad contract we bailed Houston out of.

So either Stevens is not a good judge of value and flexibility, he's impatient, he doesn't plan on being around long, or some or all of the above. Whichever way, I think it's bad management.

I agree on White being a backup, especially on this team, but’s he’s a backup PG with size (6’4”) that plays defense at a high level, which Schroder and Pritchard can’t. If the teams identity is going to be  based on defensive ability, those guys don’t fit. Romeo and Richardson wouldn’t fill that role either as they are 2/3’s.

I also agree that the C’s do need to do a better job drafting and developing talent, but at the same time Brad is trying to win now. He has to give up assets to get the players that he thinks will fit. JB is also only under contract for two more seasons and there is no guarantee that he stays. Theis has two years guaranteed on his current deal $8.5M next season, $9.5M the year after and then it’s a team option. Is he overpaid, probably. But by how much, A few million? He’s a player that has already shown that he can play well in Boston and the C’s desperately needed a PF/C with size. Grant has been shooting the ball very well, but he becomes a liability defensively and struggles to rebound against bigger players.

To your points above:

1) White isn't a PG. He doesn't run an offense. He's a switch guard with limited range.

2) Theis is a minimum contract player on a year-to-year deal at this point... possibly a few bucks over. His contract is one of the worst in the league (the NBA has gotten wiser about now handing out long term deals role guys).

Remember how this board split hairs about the lux tax for months this season? And now we're hampered with Theis for 2 more seasons after this one at almost $10MM per? 

3) Richardson was / is a nice switchy defender and was a contributor to that league's best defense off the bench. We lost wing depth when we trade him, and Langford was essentially his back-up. We didn't replace either.

4) If Schroder and Pritchard were such a poor fit, why did the Cs have the best defensive rating in the league by far the last 1-2 months? Not everyone on your team has to be Eric Snow.... when you have numerous plus defenders on your team, you need offensive role players too. Pritchard is fine in that capacity. And as started above, I'm absolutely fine with dumping Schroder -- just don't saddle your self with Theis in the process. And if BS was gonna trade for a back-up, he should've added a 1 or 4 on short money, not a 5. Other teams got decent value here that Stevens missed out on.

5) If Brad's plan is to "win now", which frankly I think is absurd, he better really like this team -- cuz he's taken his swings of the bat now. No cap space. No pick this year. No pick last year. Nosmith was a major whiff no matter what silver lining anyone wants to pretend to be believe, with no trade value. Langford has already been dumped for nothing. And the hope that Horford's kinda sorta attractive expiring contract plus junk is going to give us a chance to trade for a legit starter over what other teams in the market can offer is a pipe-dream.

I like the core of Tatum, Brown, the Williams' and Smart. I think the supporting cast of Horford, White and Theis is really weak. And their combined commitment over the next few years is way too high. With virtually no young talent (after Ainge and Stevens have botched their end of bench horribly over the past 3-4 years) and a marginal pick pool, we're stuck with what we have.

Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2022, 08:22:11 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Brad is at the relatively easy part right now.  He's supplemented the roster, cashing in first rounders to do so.

The hard part, as we've seen since 2008, is putting the team in a position to win a title.  I don't think we're there.


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Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2022, 08:49:29 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Brad is at the relatively easy part right now.  He's supplemented the roster, cashing in first rounders to do so.

The hard part, as we've seen since 2008, is putting the team in a position to win a title.  I don't think we're there.

Can you expand? Doe you think the roster is capable as is, and what do you mean by 'position to win'?


Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2022, 09:30:48 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Brad is at the relatively easy part right now.  He's supplemented the roster, cashing in first rounders to do so.

The hard part, as we've seen since 2008, is putting the team in a position to win a title.  I don't think we're there.

Can you expand? Doe you think the roster is capable as is, and what do you mean by 'position to win'?

Putting the team in a position to win a title.  I don't think we're there yet.  We look like we're a piece or two away, which is the same position we were in a few years ago.

When you've got an All-NBA player and an all-star, you team should be able to win 50 games.  That's where Brad is getting us to.  But the leap from "50 game winner" to NBA champions is a large one.  We have a good foundation, but also diminished assets.  How does Brad make the next step or two?

That's what he will ultimately be evaluated one.  Danny hung a banner.  That's his legacy.  For Brad to ultimately be successful, he needs to do the same.


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Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2022, 09:36:48 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Brad is at the relatively easy part right now.  He's supplemented the roster, cashing in first rounders to do so.

The hard part, as we've seen since 2008, is putting the team in a position to win a title.  I don't think we're there.

Can you expand? Doe you think the roster is capable as is, and what do you mean by 'position to win'?

Putting the team in a position to win a title.  I don't think we're there yet.  We look like we're a piece or two away, which is the same position we were in a few years ago.

When you've got an All-NBA player and an all-star, you team should be able to win 50 games.  That's where Brad is getting us to.  But the leap from "50 game winner" to NBA champions is a large one.  We have a good foundation, but also diminished assets.  How does Brad make the next step or two?

That's what he will ultimately be evaluated one.  Danny hung a banner.  That's his legacy.  For Brad to ultimately be successful, he needs to do the same.

OK, but that's where I feel like he's not at the relatively easy part.

He was set up with Tatum, Brown, and Timelord. What he's done since taking the job with that base: a) is really doubtful to move the needle to champ contender, and b) has diminished trade and young talent assets, while limiting our flexibility.

Example: you've (rightly) questioned the Horford trade. It was a short term move -- it's long term value is highly dubious. Under the circumstances, why was it done? It was poor decision.... he should have let Kemba rot on the bench, then negotiated a buy out (like OKC easily did), and kept our pick.

It doesn't align well with the moves he made this month -- unless you believe this team is "all in" (good enuff to win a championship). Otherwise, it smacks of reactionary moves with no real blueprint.  And according to Brad himself, that's exactly what the Theis trade was.

It's evidential of impatience, really. I just don't think that works well in the NBA.



« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 09:50:26 AM by todd_days_41 »

Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2022, 10:32:30 AM »

Offline td450

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Brad is at the relatively easy part right now.  He's supplemented the roster, cashing in first rounders to do so.

The hard part, as we've seen since 2008, is putting the team in a position to win a title.  I don't think we're there.

Can you expand? Doe you think the roster is capable as is, and what do you mean by 'position to win'?

... But the leap from "50 game winner" to NBA champions is a large one...

I think we are at a unique time where that just isn't true. In 2019-20, the Suns were 34-39 and the Warriors were 15-50.

This seems to be a function of the max contract structure, combined with the lack of anyone breaking out as a truly dominant player. We will find out soon if Giannis can separate himself, but I'm not sure he can, especially against us.

We absolutely need every guy to be healthy, but we have a dark horse shot this year. The defensive potential of this team is off the charts, and the improvement in team passing is impressive. We'd need a lot to go right, but that's true of anyone right now.

Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2022, 10:41:38 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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We will find out soon if Giannis can separate himself, but I'm not sure he can, especially against us.
Huh?

We absolutely need every guy to be healthy, but we have a dark horse shot this year.
I'm sorry, but objectively speaking this is not true.


Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2022, 10:41:45 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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Brad is at the relatively easy part right now.  He's supplemented the roster, cashing in first rounders to do so.

The hard part, as we've seen since 2008, is putting the team in a position to win a title.  I don't think we're there.

Can you expand? Doe you think the roster is capable as is, and what do you mean by 'position to win'?

... But the leap from "50 game winner" to NBA champions is a large one...

I think we are at a unique time where that just isn't true. In 2019-20, the Suns were 34-39 and the Warriors were 15-50.

This seems to be a function of the max contract structure, combined with the lack of anyone breaking out as a truly dominant player. We will find out soon if Giannis can separate himself, but I'm not sure he can, especially against us.

We absolutely need every guy to be healthy, but we have a dark horse shot this year. The defensive potential of this team is off the charts, and the improvement in team passing is impressive. We'd need a lot to go right, but that's true of anyone right now.

Agreed.

And one more impact player from the buyout market could really help as a backup and depth against dings/minor injuries. Like, going from Pritchard to Dragic would be something. Having Lopez or Favors for big depth. Seems unlikely we’ll land those guys given their ties to other contenders, but…

Gary Harris would be great too but he seems unlikely to be bought out.

Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2022, 10:46:02 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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We will find out soon if Giannis can separate himself, but I'm not sure he can, especially against us.
Huh?

We absolutely need every guy to be healthy, but we have a dark horse shot this year.
I'm sorry, but objectively speaking this is not true.

I’m dumb, so bear with me: how should I evaluate the statement objectively to come to your conclusion?
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2022, 10:50:23 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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We will find out soon if Giannis can separate himself, but I'm not sure he can, especially against us.
Huh?

We absolutely need every guy to be healthy, but we have a dark horse shot this year.
I'm sorry, but objectively speaking this is not true.

I’m dumb, so bear with me: how should I evaluate the statement objectively to come to your conclusion?

I don't think it's fair to say we stand a shot -- any shot -- at a title this season. This isn't the NHL, or NFL.... Dark horses don't win NBA titles.

Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2022, 11:25:11 AM »

Offline td450

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We will find out soon if Giannis can separate himself, but I'm not sure he can, especially against us.
Huh?

We absolutely need every guy to be healthy, but we have a dark horse shot this year.
I'm sorry, but objectively speaking this is not true.

Perhaps you need to look into what objectively means.

Re: What about Brad?
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2022, 11:33:12 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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We will find out soon if Giannis can separate himself, but I'm not sure he can, especially against us.
Huh?

We absolutely need every guy to be healthy, but we have a dark horse shot this year.
I'm sorry, but objectively speaking this is not true.

I’m dumb, so bear with me: how should I evaluate the statement objectively to come to your conclusion?

I don't think it's fair to say we stand a shot -- any shot -- at a title this season. This isn't the NHL, or NFL.... Dark horses don't win NBA titles.

I think the Mavericks were a dark horse going into the playoffs in 2010-11 and they ended up beating the heat to win the whole thing.
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