Time to start Smart and Brown in the backcourt?

[CoachBo]

Ugh, when will the nonsense stop with the benching IT thing?

Seriously. We have a guy doing what only a handful of superstars have done in the past 15 years, and some want to bench him.

Be the worst defensive player in the league?

Gerald Green?

[ThaPreacher]

Ugh, when will the nonsense stop with the benching IT thing?

Seriously. We have a guy doing what only a handful of superstars have done in the past 15 years, and some want to bench him.

Be the worst defensive player in the league?

Gerald Green?

Lol, not even close. Made me laugh though.

[mmmmm]

As long as Bradley and IT are on this team, IT and Bradley will be your starters and should be. Simply put, they are better than Brown and Smart at this point. If Bradley is traded this offseason because we draft a guard and sign a free agent, Smart or Brown will most likely enter the starting lineup. I would expect IT to sign long term and as long as he is averaging 25+ points and 6+ assists per game, he is your starter for years to come.

This^

[ThaPreacher]

Smart and Brown would provide an instant improvement in defense, passing, rebounding and size. I don't know if they would score the ball well enough, or shoot a high enough percentage to be effective. They'd need to be surrounded by better players at the 3, 4, and 5 than the C's currently have.

But if you examine IT coming off the bench you'll see the benefits. By coming off the bench he'd be playing, at times, against the opponents backup guards. He'd be also guarding backups, (a major factor). Teams would have little chance to adjust their defense to contain him. Just the fact of coming off the bench with a scoring weapon like IT will be of benefit by immediately changing the personality of the Celtic attack, causing your opponent to have to adjust.

Buy alas this is a pipe dream, the IT the media and fans have created, and that now has him believing he's a celebrity superstar. It would in fact cause internal, and external problems of major proportions.

Too bad, because IMO you will never go deep into the playoffs with IT as the starting PG, and main scorer. He'd be bounced around like he was inside a pinball machine.

Exactly. Havlicek came off the bench and so did McHale.

Havlicek and McHale came off the bench when they started their careers, not after they became stars. Shame on you for not knowing your Celtic history. Smart and Brown are starting their careers...so they are coming off the bench, just like McHale and Havlicek did to start their careers. Don't worry, they will get their chance to start, in time.

Sorry, but you sir are incorrect. Shame on you for not knowing your Celtic history! lol

Havlicek and McHale both were 6th man for the first 5 years of their careers!  Both could have been starting. Hondo led the Celtics in scoring in 1963-64 his 2nd year at 19.9 ppg ahead of starters-Sam Jones, Bill Russell and Tommy Heinsohn.

Red valued the 6th man. He thought it elevated the overall team play.

As Havlicek noted, "It never bothered me, because I think that role is very important to a club.. One thing I learned from Red Auerbach was that it's not who starts the game, but who finishes it, and I generally was around at the finish."

McHale was 6th man until Cornbread (Cedric Maxwell) went down with a knee injury-Feb 1985.
There was no plan to start McHale. He would have continued as 6th Man.

The following year, McHale started. But the Celtics had another NBA Hall of Fame 6th Man-Bill Walton.

The plan by Celtics Head Coach Brad Stevens was to have IT4 come off the bench until we had all the early season injuries. Not a bad plan.
Are you allowed win both the MVP and 6th Man awards?

I see advantages to both lineups.

[nickagneta]

Smart and Brown would provide an instant improvement in defense, passing, rebounding and size. I don't know if they would score the ball well enough, or shoot a high enough percentage to be effective. They'd need to be surrounded by better players at the 3, 4, and 5 than the C's currently have.

But if you examine IT coming off the bench you'll see the benefits. By coming off the bench he'd be playing, at times, against the opponents backup guards. He'd be also guarding backups, (a major factor). Teams would have little chance to adjust their defense to contain him. Just the fact of coming off the bench with a scoring weapon like IT will be of benefit by immediately changing the personality of the Celtic attack, causing your opponent to have to adjust.

Buy alas this is a pipe dream, the IT the media and fans have created, and that now has him believing he's a celebrity superstar. It would in fact cause internal, and external problems of major proportions.

Too bad, because IMO you will never go deep into the playoffs with IT as the starting PG, and main scorer. He'd be bounced around like he was inside a pinball machine.

Exactly. Havlicek came off the bench and so did McHale.

Havlicek and McHale came off the bench when they started their careers, not after they became stars. Shame on you for not knowing your Celtic history. Smart and Brown are starting their careers...so they are coming off the bench, just like McHale and Havlicek did to start their careers. Don't worry, they will get their chance to start, in time.

Sorry, but you sir are incorrect. Shame on you for not knowing your Celtic history! lol

Havlicek and McHale both were 6th man for the first 5 years of their careers!  Both could have been starting. Hondo led the Celtics in scoring in 1963-64 his 2nd year at 19.9 ppg ahead of starters-Sam Jones, Bill Russell and Tommy Heinsohn.

Red valued the 6th man. He thought it elevated the overall team play.

As Havlicek noted, "It never bothered me, because I think that role is very important to a club.. One thing I learned from Red Auerbach was that it's not who starts the game, but who finishes it, and I generally was around at the finish."

McHale was 6th man until Cornbread (Cedric Maxwell) went down with a knee injury-Feb 1985.
There was no plan to start McHale. He would have continued as 6th Man.

The following year, McHale started. But the Celtics had another NBA Hall of Fame 6th Man-Bill Walton.

The plan by Celtics Head Coach Brad Stevens was to have IT4 come off the bench until we had all the early season injuries. Not a bad plan.
Are you allowed win both the MVP and 6th Man awards?

I see advantages to both lineups.

I am sorry but isn't by definition the first 5 years of their careers the start of their careers? The reasons for their becoming starters doesn't matter. They started their careers as 6th men which is what I said and what is correct. They didn't go to the bench when they were stars to benefit the team which is what the poster I was replying to was hinting at. I do know my Celtic history and I was right.

[Ilikesports17]

Ugh, when will the nonsense stop with the benching IT thing?

Seriously. We have a guy doing what only a handful of superstars have done in the past 15 years, and some want to bench him.

Be the worst defensive player in the league?

Gerald Green?

I may go with Rozier here.

[ThaPreacher]

Ugh, when will the nonsense stop with the benching IT thing?

Seriously. We have a guy doing what only a handful of superstars have done in the past 15 years, and some want to bench him.

It's a good thing that grabbing one's head and screaming in disbelief - as this thread has caused - cannot easily be conveyed on this board.

The problem isn't Thomas. The problem is that he doesn't have enough help.

Agreed.

But Steven's needs to make some adjustments to free IT4, whenever he is on the floor.
Dribble drive doesn't work when they trap and double team.

[ThaPreacher]

Smart and Brown would provide an instant improvement in defense, passing, rebounding and size. I don't know if they would score the ball well enough, or shoot a high enough percentage to be effective. They'd need to be surrounded by better players at the 3, 4, and 5 than the C's currently have.

But if you examine IT coming off the bench you'll see the benefits. By coming off the bench he'd be playing, at times, against the opponents backup guards. He'd be also guarding backups, (a major factor). Teams would have little chance to adjust their defense to contain him. Just the fact of coming off the bench with a scoring weapon like IT will be of benefit by immediately changing the personality of the Celtic attack, causing your opponent to have to adjust.

Buy alas this is a pipe dream, the IT the media and fans have created, and that now has him believing he's a celebrity superstar. It would in fact cause internal, and external problems of major proportions.

Too bad, because IMO you will never go deep into the playoffs with IT as the starting PG, and main scorer. He'd be bounced around like he was inside a pinball machine.

Exactly. Havlicek came off the bench and so did McHale.

Havlicek and McHale came off the bench when they started their careers, not after they became stars. Shame on you for not knowing your Celtic history. Smart and Brown are starting their careers...so they are coming off the bench, just like McHale and Havlicek did to start their careers. Don't worry, they will get their chance to start, in time.

Sorry, but you sir are incorrect. Shame on you for not knowing your Celtic history! lol

Havlicek and McHale both were 6th man for the first 5 years of their careers!  Both could have been starting. Hondo led the Celtics in scoring in 1963-64 his 2nd year at 19.9 ppg ahead of starters-Sam Jones, Bill Russell and Tommy Heinsohn.

Red valued the 6th man. He thought it elevated the overall team play.

As Havlicek noted, "It never bothered me, because I think that role is very important to a club.. One thing I learned from Red Auerbach was that it's not who starts the game, but who finishes it, and I generally was around at the finish."

McHale was 6th man until Cornbread (Cedric Maxwell) went down with a knee injury-Feb 1985.
There was no plan to start McHale. He would have continued as 6th Man.

The following year, McHale started. But the Celtics had another NBA Hall of Fame 6th Man-Bill Walton.

The plan by Celtics Head Coach Brad Stevens was to have IT4 come off the bench until we had all the early season injuries. Not a bad plan.
Are you allowed win both the MVP and 6th Man awards?

I see advantages to both lineups.

I am sorry but isn't by definition the first 5 years of their careers the start of their careers? The reasons for their becoming starters doesn't matter. They started their careers as 6th men which is what I said and what is correct. They didn't go to the bench when they were stars to benefit the team which is what the poster I was replying to was hinting at. I do know my Celtic history and I was right.

Well, I'll grant you that you were right in spirit, if that's what you meant. Hondo and McHale didn't go to the bench. They remained on the bench-to help their teams. They were self-less in that way. Much different than many of the modern day NBA players.  Clearly, you don't lead your team in scoring from the bench-if that isn't the case.  And you aren't an ALL STAR from the bench if that isn't the case. (McHale-84)  As far as early in their careers-that's subjective. Since the average NBA player's career is 6.10 years, year 5 is pretty deep for most. I'd say that after year 2-3, you are into your career and considered a vet-if you are playing on the level that they were.

I wouldn't move IT4 to the bench, because he's struggled lately. IT4 needs to start and have the support of everyone. His confidence needs that. Teams and players go through streaks both good and bad. IT4 has only improved since starting!

Besides who is the point guard in a Smart/Brown backcourt?

[chilidawg]

Smart and Brown would provide an instant improvement in defense, passing, rebounding and size. I don't know if they would score the ball well enough, or shoot a high enough percentage to be effective. They'd need to be surrounded by better players at the 3, 4, and 5 than the C's currently have.

But if you examine IT coming off the bench you'll see the benefits. By coming off the bench he'd be playing, at times, against the opponents backup guards. He'd be also guarding backups, (a major factor). Teams would have little chance to adjust their defense to contain him. Just the fact of coming off the bench with a scoring weapon like IT will be of benefit by immediately changing the personality of the Celtic attack, causing your opponent to have to adjust.

Buy alas this is a pipe dream, the IT the media and fans have created, and that now has him believing he's a celebrity superstar. It would in fact cause internal, and external problems of major proportions.

Too bad, because IMO you will never go deep into the playoffs with IT as the starting PG, and main scorer. He'd be bounced around like he was inside a pinball machine.

Exactly. Havlicek came off the bench and so did McHale.

Havlicek and McHale came off the bench when they started their careers, not after they became stars. Shame on you for not knowing your Celtic history. Smart and Brown are starting their careers...so they are coming off the bench, just like McHale and Havlicek did to start their careers. Don't worry, they will get their chance to start, in time.

Sorry, but you sir are incorrect. Shame on you for not knowing your Celtic history! lol

Havlicek and McHale both were 6th man for the first 5 years of their careers!  Both could have been starting. Hondo led the Celtics in scoring in 1963-64 his 2nd year at 19.9 ppg ahead of starters-Sam Jones, Bill Russell and Tommy Heinsohn.

Red valued the 6th man. He thought it elevated the overall team play.

As Havlicek noted, "It never bothered me, because I think that role is very important to a club.. One thing I learned from Red Auerbach was that it's not who starts the game, but who finishes it, and I generally was around at the finish."

McHale was 6th man until Cornbread (Cedric Maxwell) went down with a knee injury-Feb 1985.
There was no plan to start McHale. He would have continued as 6th Man.

The following year, McHale started. But the Celtics had another NBA Hall of Fame 6th Man-Bill Walton.

The plan by Celtics Head Coach Brad Stevens was to have IT4 come off the bench until we had all the early season injuries. Not a bad plan.
Are you allowed win both the MVP and 6th Man awards?

I see advantages to both lineups.

I am sorry but isn't by definition the first 5 years of their careers the start of their careers? The reasons for their becoming starters doesn't matter. They started their careers as 6th men which is what I said and what is correct. They didn't go to the bench when they were stars to benefit the team which is what the poster I was replying to was hinting at. I do know my Celtic history and I was right.

Well, I'll grant you that you were right in spirit, if that's what you meant. Hondo and McHale didn't go to the bench. They remained on the bench-to help their teams. They were self-less in that way. Much different than many of the modern day NBA players.  Clearly, you don't lead your team in scoring from the bench-if that isn't the case.  And you aren't an ALL STAR from the bench if that isn't the case. (McHale-84)  As far as early in their careers-that's subjective. Since the average NBA player's career is 6.10 years, year 5 is pretty deep for most. I'd say that after year 2-3, you are into your career and considered a vet-if you are playing on the level that they were.

I wouldn't move IT4 to the bench, because he's struggled lately. IT4 needs to start and have the support of everyone. His confidence needs that. Teams and players go through streaks both good and bad. IT4 has only improved since starting!

Besides who is the point guard in a Smart/Brown backcourt?

Horford 

[Smartacus]

Isaiah has to fight being moved to the bench tooth and nail. Any step down he takes at this point will be viewed as the reality of his situation and will permanently damage his long term role in the NBA. Meanwhile has any player in the league earned his starting spot more than IT4?

Ideally I just think that we move him to a team that's a great situation but with less expectations to contend. I have no doubt that Isaiah would be the undisputed starter on about half of the teams in the NBA. There are so many great situations that he could be moved to if the price was right.

Just off the top of my head...
Pelicans if Jrue walks in free agency.
Chiacgo
Orlando
Maybe even Spurs if they need a Tony Parker replacement.
Philly to play off Simmons? or Milwaukee to play off Giannis?
New York Knicks or Brooklyn for that matter

Unfortunately for Boston and IT though his only real fit long term here is as a 6th man and I just can't imagine that's where he wants to be at this stage in his career.

[nickagneta]

Unfortunately for Boston and IT though his only real fit long term here is as a 6th man and I just can't imagine that's where he wants to be at this stage in his career.

Care to explain this because the most likely reality of the situation is IT is not going to be traded, that he is going to be resigned, and that he is going to be the starter on this team for many years to come.

[CelticPride2016]

"Re: Time to start Smart and Brown in the backcourt?"

No way, sorry.

This is Isaiah's team until it isn't.

He is too young and too good not to start. The problem is his big mouth saying he has to keep his options open.

Isaiah either makes us a true contender even if that just means a puncher's chance or he's gone.

The future outweighs the present in regards to what Danny does and how this proceeds.

[Smartacus]

Unfortunately for Boston and IT though his only real fit long term here is as a 6th man and I just can't imagine that's where he wants to be at this stage in his career.

Care to explain this because the most likely reality of the situation is IT is not going to be traded, that he is going to be resigned, and that he is going to be the starter on this team for many years to come.

Sorry if I posed that as fact, Probably should have included an "IMO" since it was definitely just my opinion.

Thought those comments he made about "this being a business" and "my next move has to be for me and my family" in the recent interview were fairly telling that the writing is on the wall.

My guess is that he get's moved or resigns elsewhere but again that's just my read on the situation. I think he and Danny have just about the best relationship I've ever seen between a player and GM in my 10 years following the league and will find him a spot where he can thrive and open up time for our young blood.

If we do keep him... well that's gravy as far as I'm concerned. I'd be happy to be wrong since I would love to see him go down as a Celtics legend

[feckless]

Seems like the right place to say it--Avery Bradley's defense on Kyrie tonight was powerful and important.

[Dannys Chipotle Guy]

Seems like the right place to say it--Avery Bradley's defense on Kyrie tonight was powerful and important.

crucial.

He is very important to this team. It will be great to see that minutes restriction lifted.