Bulpett: Bulls wanted #3 pick, two rotation players, and Nets 2017 pick

[Bobshot]

For those crucifying Ainge for trying to 'win' a trade on draft night, apparently the asking price for Butler was insane. The Bulls wanted the #3 pick, the Nets 2017 pick, and two rotation players that were likely Bradley and Crowder.

"The initial key for the Bulls was the third overall pick from last month’s draft and the ability to select Providence guard Kris Dunn. The aforementioned sources added that the Celtics were willing to add one player from their rotation when Chicago wanted a second.

“Another sticking point in that and in other deals Boston is talking about is that pick from the Nets next year,” said one of these sources. “Danny will make it available in the right situation, but he’s not going to give it up with core players, too. That’s going to be a good draft, and that’s going to be a high pick."

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/07/bulpett_celtics_working_the_nba_room_but_no_deals_pending

Nuts to that. Butler is an old fashioned points hog--it was always a battle between him and Rose for the touches. The fantasy game is all about touches, and it's clear who the big touches players are. Harden is the king of the lot. Curry and Durant are in for the same surprise next year that Aldridge got when he joined the Spurs.

The amazing thing about the Russell era Celts was nobody ever led the League in scoring. That's because Red's system was distributing the ball for the best shot. The same system Pop employs with the Spurs. At the same time, Red had a guy in Russell who could dominate the boards and inside defense. The current Celtics could use somebody like that. Horford isn't quite that guy.

[colincb]

Bulls were never serious about trading Butler as long as they could build enough around him to put people in the seats. That's the way the Bulls' management thinks. Unless the Bulls were going to get an offer they couldn't refuse, they weren't going to rebuild. Two starters off a team better than the Bulls and two high lottery picks is a can't-refuse offer and a non-starter for Danny.

I have no trouble believing this was the deal the Bulls wanted and Bulpett being the most credible beat writer in town just adds to the likelihood that it's accurate.

[JSD]

Okay, so, clearly, the Bulls did not really want to trade Butler.

Pretty much

[BigDogPitbull]

The bulls can pound sand!  I like Butler but not that much.  I would rather see them bring in guys that want to play team basketball than guys like Butler and Westbrook.  Horford is perfect for this team.  I think Griffin would be perfect to pair with him due to his ability to rebound and willingness to pass.

[crimson_stallion]

I love Butler, but if this is true then full credit to Ainge for not biting. 

That's a rediculously overpriced offer. You're basically talking about two top 3 picks, a 15 PPG scoring all defensive teamer, and a very good two-way wing.

For a haul like that I would expect no less then a top 5 player.

[footey]

Too much.

But Ainge messed up the 3rd pick as well. Should have drafted Kris Dunn and traded a guard.

Brown will be better than Dunn. So Ainge did the correct thing.

[fubar089]

Too much.

But Ainge messed up the 3rd pick as well. Should have drafted Kris Dunn and traded a guard.

Brown is better than Dunn was at 19. I expect him to be better at 22 as well.

[Future Celtics Owner]

So the Bulls, Wolves , and the Sixers(plus more) wanted Dunn and DA still selected Jaylen. Pretty negligent and he should have traded down or just selected Dunn.

We know for a fact that Okafor was available for the #3 straight up and IMO that would have been a very fair trade. But we could have traded down and still selected Jaylen, maybe even Zach Lavine and the #5 for #3 and #16

Ainge was negligent this draft and it's obvious. Jaylen is a great prospect but he was available 5-7 and we need to get value back (at minimum) or get more than value back for our best assets. Yab and the #31 were 2 huge other mistakes

[saltlover]

So the Bulls, Wolves , and the Sixers(plus more) wanted Dunn and DA still selected Jaylen. Pretty negligent and he should have traded down or just selected Dunn.

We know for a fact that Okafor was available for the #3 straight up and IMO that would have been a very fair trade. But we could have traded down and still selected Jaylen, maybe even Zach Lavine and the #5 for #3 and #16

Ainge was negligent this draft and it's obvious. Jaylen is a great prospect but he was available 5-7 and we need to get value back (at minimum) or get more than value back for our best assets. Yab and the #31 were 2 huge other mistakes

Yeah, definitely negligent.  That's totally the correct use of that word.

People keep asking you, and you never have explained it.  If the Wolves got Dunn at 5, how were the Celtics supposed to convince them to trade to #3?  And how on earth do you think they were willing to trade Levine?  Where have you seen that reported?  The only thing I've seen is that they wouldn't include him in a trade for Jimmy Butler, so I highly highly doubt they'd trade him to move up for two spots for a player they correctly guessed they could just wait for.

Furthermore, how do you know Phoenix wouldn't have drafted Brown instead of Bender?  Do you know someone in the Phoenix draft room who had their ranking list in front of them?  Just a hunch, but I don't think you do.  Heck, how do you even know that the Wolves wouldn't have picked Brown at 3 had they traded up?

You need to leave this tired line of thought behind.  Ainge picked the player he thought was best for the Celtics.  Time may tell what the correct decision was (or it may not).  But you have zero evidence that a worthwhile trade down was ever available.

[PAOBoston]

So the Bulls, Wolves , and the Sixers(plus more) wanted Dunn and DA still selected Jaylen. Pretty negligent and he should have traded down or just selected Dunn.

We know for a fact that Okafor was available for the #3 straight up and IMO that would have been a very fair trade. But we could have traded down and still selected Jaylen, maybe even Zach Lavine and the #5 for #3 and #16

Ainge was negligent this draft and it's obvious. Jaylen is a great prospect but he was available 5-7 and we need to get value back (at minimum) or get more than value back for our best assets. Yab and the #31 were 2 huge other mistakes

What exactly makes it negligent? Is Dunn, who is almost 23 years old, really that much better than Brown is (even though he's 19)? How does Okafor make the C's a better team? It sounds like you are just upset they didn't trade for your binky. It takes two to tango.

[DarkAzcura]

So the Bulls, Wolves , and the Sixers(plus more) wanted Dunn and DA still selected Jaylen. Pretty negligent and he should have traded down or just selected Dunn.

We know for a fact that Okafor was available for the #3 straight up and IMO that would have been a very fair trade. But we could have traded down and still selected Jaylen, maybe even Zach Lavine and the #5 for #3 and #16

Ainge was negligent this draft and it's obvious. Jaylen is a great prospect but he was available 5-7 and we need to get value back (at minimum) or get more than value back for our best assets. Yab and the #31 were 2 huge other mistakes

Ainge has never been scared of making deals and milking value at any opportunity. It's more likely the Celtics didn't feel comfortable trading down because they might have had a source that PHX wanted Brown for all we know. There's always the chance that other teams called the Celtics bluff in terms of them wanting Dunn and didn't want to deal with the Celtics knowing they would have to trade out of their log jam at the guard spot. If I was Minny, I'd feel pretty comfortable knowing Ainge wasn't taking Dunn considering all of the guards we already have. It was a successful judgement call.

The fact that the Celtics didn't trade down to 4, 5, or 6 is confirmation enough to me that a deal wasn't available or they knew another team was also high on Brown. Again, Ainge is no stranger to milking the value of his assets as much as possible.

[colincb]

Ainge wanted Brown and he fit better than Dunn did. Brown was linked to the Cs early and Dunn wasn't until late. IOW, the threat to pick Dunn was an Ainge smokescreen. PHX was long expected to fill a major hole at PF (Chriss or Bender) with 11 out of 12 mocks in the NBA.com consensus having one of two going there. So if you're MIN sitting at 5, how much are you willing to give up to get Dunn? As long as the Sixers or Lakers weren't trading for the 3rd pick, you were in a strong position to get him, because Danny wasn't going to trade down much further and take the risk that Brown would be gone.

[jambr380]

Hard to say on the trading down situation. If Boston had traded the #3 for Okafor, Philly would have taken Dunn. The fact that there was at least a small bidding war for Dunn's services should have given Minny some incentive to try and acquire that pick. But, assuming we could get Lavine is a bit of a pipe dream. Perhaps we could have gotten Dieng by throwing in one of our firsts.

[rickyfan3.0...]

You take out AB and I do that deal.

[Dino Pitino]

For those crucifying Ainge for trying to 'win' a trade on draft night, apparently the asking price for Butler was insane. The Bulls wanted the #3 pick, the Nets 2017 pick, and two rotation players that were likely Bradley and Crowder.

"The initial key for the Bulls was the third overall pick from last month’s draft and the ability to select Providence guard Kris Dunn. The aforementioned sources added that the Celtics were willing to add one player from their rotation when Chicago wanted a second.

“Another sticking point in that and in other deals Boston is talking about is that pick from the Nets next year,” said one of these sources. “Danny will make it available in the right situation, but he’s not going to give it up with core players, too. That’s going to be a good draft, and that’s going to be a high pick."

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/07/bulpett_celtics_working_the_nba_room_but_no_deals_pending

Nuts to that. Butler is an old fashioned points hog--it was always a battle between him and Rose for the touches. The fantasy game is all about touches, and it's clear who the big touches players are. Harden is the king of the lot. Curry and Durant are in for the same surprise next year that Aldridge got when he joined the Spurs.

The amazing thing about the Russell era Celts was nobody ever led the League in scoring. That's because Red's system was distributing the ball for the best shot. The same system Pop employs with the Spurs. At the same time, Red had a guy in Russell who could dominate the boards and inside defense. The current Celtics could use somebody like that. Horford isn't quite that guy.

TP. Not only did no Celtic ever lead the league in scoring in that era, no Celtic in that era even finished in the top 4. And that was when most years there were only 8-10 teams. And the Celtics were far and away leading the league in pace most years!