Switch Pierce and Garnetts defensive assignments

[BballTim]

KG would get DESTROYED by Lebron. Kg doesn't have the lateral quickness he once had and even if he did he still couldn't keep up with Lebron. Lebron is the best player in this league and the celts are not going to stop him they just have to slow down everyone else

News flash Pierce got destroyed by Lebron. I think Pierces legs were gone by the end of the game which contributed to him missing a few wide open shots at the end of the fourth. You dont want your best offensive player playing their best offensive player. The first five minutes of game 2 you let KG guard Lebron and see what happens. Doc needs to think outside the box.

  When you say Pierce got destroyed, though, you're talking about a player who averages 30 a game (and who averaged 35 last year) scoring 35. 15% above your average doesn't constitute destroying someone.

  Putting KG on LeBron is bad for a variety of reasons. He can't keep LeBron in front of him, he'll quickly get into foul trouble, and he can't help control the paint if he's on the perimeter. KG will also tire quickly.

Cleveland made a adjustment on Rondo in the second half and it worked. They put the bigger Parker on Rondo and put Mo Williams on Ray. Though convential wisdom would have said Parker cant stay in front on Rondo.("Putting KG on LeBron is bad for a variety of reasons. He can't keep LeBron in front of him")  

You try adjustments in limited minutes and guage results. That what good coaches do. Once Mo Williams was guarding Ray how many times did we post Ray? Once? Twice? You cant keep going to the same failed plan and expect different results.

  Parker *can't* keep Rondo in front of him. And he really didn't. Shaq staying close to the rim when Rondo had the ball was probably more responsible for Rondo not driving that Parker was, not to mention the fact that Rondo was trying to get the other guys involved.

So Rondo has 19 points and 8 assists in the first half then goes 8 points 4 assists for the second half. Switching Parker on him instead of Williams had nothing to do with it? cmon.  

"I think for that reason alone, LeBron will not be having the same kind of scoring night he did in Game One. Paul is the kind of player that loves to respond to negative press and a challenge like this ... I have no doubt we'll be seeing just that tonight"

He was worn down by the end of the fourth. Your primary offensive weapon cannot defend the other teams best player. Lebron is eight years younger than Paul.

  If you're using quotes, go with this one:

The Cavaliers believe that switching 6-foot-6 Anthony Parker onto him forced the alteration in the 6-1 Rondo.

“They do?” said Rondo. “That’s their opinion. I don’t see the first guy. I’m looking at the second line of defense, regardless of who they put on me. I’ve seen him before. I don’t think it’s going to stop anything.”

  The "second line of defense" was Shaq hovering near the basket instead of covering Baby or Perk when Rondo had the ball. And the reason Rondo only had 4 assists in the 2nd half was because people missed the wide open shots he got them.

[BballTim]

"So you bring your most effective post player out to the perimeter to guard LeBron?"

No you give up the perimeter and have KG give him plenty of space. You pack the paint and only have him D him up tight from 15 feet inward. You want Lebron shooting jumpshots.

"KG can not. LBJ's going to burn by him every time, and the other huge post players they have are going to LOVE having KG pulled out from the box, and the paint being so fluid an area. As I stated before, LeBron's going to get his thirty, but you HAVE to limit the bleeding elsewhere"

This post isnt about stoping Lebron and his 30ppg. This is about preserving Pierce and maximizing your roster. Did you read my last post? You cannot ask Pierce to defend Lebron then take all the clutch shots in the fourth quater. His legs were gone by the time we needed him to score.

 Right now, for the playoffs, James is 16-30 on threes, and that's with a man on him.

[FatjohnReturns]

Right now, for the playoffs, James is 16-30 on threes, and that's with a man on him.

Giving Lebron a 3ptr is just about the best situation to have him in. Lol you would rather have him driving to the rim?

The switching of KG to a perimeter position and Pierce to a post position weakens not only the one on one defense at those positions but puts two players into positions in the team defensive scheme they are not used to playing. It weakens the ENTIRE team defense as a whole due to the unfamiliarity of the positions being played and the proper rotational assignments at those positions.

Your talking about switching the SF and PF defensive assigments of veteran players that have played for the same defensive coach for 3 years. How can that be unfamiliar. How can that weaken the system?  Pierce is a good rebounder and you get KG around the 15-18 ft mark giving James the 3ptr. How can they not know the proper rotational assigments? They are not rookies.

[nickagneta]

The switching of KG to a perimeter position and Pierce to a post position weakens not only the one on one defense at those positions but puts two players into positions in the team defensive scheme they are not used to playing. It weakens the ENTIRE team defense as a whole due to the unfamiliarity of the positions being played and the proper rotational assignments at those positions.

Your talking about switching the SF and PF defensive assigments of veteran players that have played for the same defensive coach for 3 years. How can that be unfamiliar. How can that weaken the system?  Pierce is a good rebounder and you get KG around the 15-18 ft mark giving James the 3ptr. How can they not know the proper rotational assigments? They are not rookies.

Obviously you didn't read my entire post because the answer to your question was right there so let me quote it. Here are the two paragraphs that explain why:

That includes the proper way to defend high post pick and rolls and pick and pops, low post pick and rolls, transition defense, how to run defenders off the three point line and the proper switches thereafter, and especially help defense in the low post when players get past the first line of defense and the proper rotation that then occurs for rebounding assignments and preventing weak side offensive pass downs and weak side offensive rebounding.

KG and Pierce are probably both smart enough and familiar enough to make a valiant effort at making it work, but there is something to be said for instinctual repetitive reactions brought about by playing a certain position and knowing THAT positions correct moves at all times.

[Chris]

Right now, for the playoffs, James is 16-30 on threes, and that's with a man on him.

Giving Lebron a 3ptr is just about the best situation to have him in. Lol you would rather have him driving to the rim?

I agree, with a caveat.  They cannot be "comfortable" 3 pointers in the flow.  In other words, you cannot let him really step into them.

Lebron has become a decent to good shooter, but he is more like Pierce than Ray Allen.  He needs to step into his threes, and does not have a quick release.  Allen on the other hand (and other great shooters), have such a compact motion, they can shoot in rhythm with incredibly little space, and it doesn't affect their form, or have a huge affect on the chances of the ball going in.  Shooters like Lebron, who are not as "pure", can be thrown off if you get up into their body, or throw off their rhythm BEFORE they shoot (meaning, running them off the shot, after they are in motion does not mean much).  This means sitting 6 feet off of him, daring to shoot does not do much, however, if you play off to the side of him (with a help defender taking away the other side), giving him the illusion that he has space, but so he still has you in his peripheral, you will throw him off.

This is what Ray Allen did so good against Kobe in the finals in '08, and what the C's in general did against Lebron early in the series in '08.  It seemed like they were just missing shots they would normally make, but what was really happening was the C's were throwing off their rhythm, while still daring them to shoot.

[BballTim]

Right now, for the playoffs, James is 16-30 on threes, and that's with a man on him.

Giving Lebron a 3ptr is just about the best situation to have him in. Lol you would rather have him driving to the rim?

The switching of KG to a perimeter position and Pierce to a post position weakens not only the one on one defense at those positions but puts two players into positions in the team defensive scheme they are not used to playing. It weakens the ENTIRE team defense as a whole due to the unfamiliarity of the positions being played and the proper rotational assignments at those positions.

Your talking about switching the SF and PF defensive assigments of veteran players that have played for the same defensive coach for 3 years. How can that be unfamiliar. How can that weaken the system?  Pierce is a good rebounder and you get KG around the 15-18 ft mark giving James the 3ptr. How can they not know the proper rotational assigments? They are not rookies.

  First of all, how did letting Wade shoot threes whenever he wanted to work out? Secondly, do you not see that Paul's interior defense is quite inferior to KG's? If Williams drives, is Paul going to alter his shot? How about AV?

[FatjohnReturns]

The switching of KG to a perimeter position and Pierce to a post position weakens not only the one on one defense at those positions but puts two players into positions in the team defensive scheme they are not used to playing. It weakens the ENTIRE team defense as a whole due to the unfamiliarity of the positions being played and the proper rotational assignments at those positions.

Your talking about switching the SF and PF defensive assigments of veteran players that have played for the same defensive coach for 3 years. How can that be unfamiliar. How can that weaken the system?  Pierce is a good rebounder and you get KG around the 15-18 ft mark giving James the 3ptr. How can they not know the proper rotational assigments? They are not rookies.

Obviously you didn't read my entire post because the answer to your question was right there so let me quote it. Here are the two paragraphs that explain why:

That includes the proper way to defend high post pick and rolls and pick and pops, low post pick and rolls, transition defense, how to run defenders off the three point line and the proper switches thereafter, and especially help defense in the low post when players get past the first line of defense and the proper rotation that then occurs for rebounding assignments and preventing weak side offensive pass downs and weak side offensive rebounding.

KG and Pierce are probably both smart enough and familiar enough to make a valiant effort at making it work, but there is something to be said for instinctual repetitive reactions brought about by playing a certain position and knowing THAT positions correct moves at all times.

No I did read your whole post. I just dont agree. After watching the defense collapse in many 3rd quaters this year this to me seems laughable
"but there is something to be said for instinctual repetitive reactions brought about by playing a certain position and knowing THAT positions correct moves at all times."

If they know the correct posistion at all times how do you explain getting burnt so so many times in the second half of games all year long?

The reality is maybe switching their assignments doesnt work at all. You must be willing to take risks in limited minutes to see if something might work better. Speculation is just that speculation.
We will not win the series with Pierce on Lebron full-time. We need him too much on the offensive side of the ball.

[FatjohnReturns]

Right now, for the playoffs, James is 16-30 on threes, and that's with a man on him.

Giving Lebron a 3ptr is just about the best situation to have him in. Lol you would rather have him driving to the rim?

The switching of KG to a perimeter position and Pierce to a post position weakens not only the one on one defense at those positions but puts two players into positions in the team defensive scheme they are not used to playing. It weakens the ENTIRE team defense as a whole due to the unfamiliarity of the positions being played and the proper rotational assignments at those positions.

Your talking about switching the SF and PF defensive assigments of veteran players that have played for the same defensive coach for 3 years. How can that be unfamiliar. How can that weaken the system?  Pierce is a good rebounder and you get KG around the 15-18 ft mark giving James the 3ptr. How can they not know the proper rotational assigments? They are not rookies.

  First of all, how did letting Wade shoot threes whenever he wanted to work out? Secondly, do you not see that Paul's interior defense is quite inferior to KG's? If Williams drives, is Paul going to alter his shot? How about AV?

What about Perkins he cant help on penetration?

If Williams drives, is Paul going to alter his shot? How about AV?

Your worried about Varejoe putting the ball on the floor against Pierce? That would be a good defensive possesion for us

[Bahku]

"So you bring your most effective post player out to the perimeter to guard LeBron?"

No you give up the perimeter and have KG give him plenty of space. You pack the paint and only have him D him up tight from 15 feet inward. You want Lebron shooting jumpshots.

"KG can not. LBJ's going to burn by him every time, and the other huge post players they have are going to LOVE having KG pulled out from the box, and the paint being so fluid an area. As I stated before, LeBron's going to get his thirty, but you HAVE to limit the bleeding elsewhere"

This post isnt about stoping Lebron and his 30ppg. This is about preserving Pierce and maximizing your roster. Did you read my last post? You cannot ask Pierce to defend Lebron then take all the clutch shots in the fourth quater. His legs were gone by the time we needed him to score.

Sorry, but I didn't see Pierce's legs "gone" in the fourth quarter, I saw a team that let the momentum get away from them and a lack of proper adjustments on the guards. Paul had a bad game, the whole game, but I saw no lessening of his leg strength in the 4th quarter. But even if it were to happen, we have enough scoring threats to take up the slack ... we don't need to ask Paul to shoot all the "clutch shots", especially if he's defending LBJ.

Sorry, I just can't imagine taking a great post player like KG and asking him to move out of his comfort zone, all the while weakening the entire paint area, just because a guy who always gets his 30 points, did so in game one.

There are many adjustments that make more sense, IMHO ... like getting more physical at the point, or using a larger tandem inside. Really great discussion, though, FJR ... I personally love throwing these ideas around, (though you don't need to dish out the "did you read my whole post" type comments ... TP anyway).

[FatjohnReturns]

"So you bring your most effective post player out to the perimeter to guard LeBron?"

No you give up the perimeter and have KG give him plenty of space. You pack the paint and only have him D him up tight from 15 feet inward. You want Lebron shooting jumpshots.

"KG can not. LBJ's going to burn by him every time, and the other huge post players they have are going to LOVE having KG pulled out from the box, and the paint being so fluid an area. As I stated before, LeBron's going to get his thirty, but you HAVE to limit the bleeding elsewhere"

This post isnt about stoping Lebron and his 30ppg. This is about preserving Pierce and maximizing your roster. Did you read my last post? You cannot ask Pierce to defend Lebron then take all the clutch shots in the fourth quater. His legs were gone by the time we needed him to score.

Sorry, but I didn't see Pierce's legs "gone" in the fourth quarter, I saw a team that let the momentum get away from them and a lack of proper adjustments on the guards. Paul had a bad game, the whole game, but I saw no lessening of his leg strength in the 4th quarter. But even if it were to happen, we have enough scoring threats to take up the slack ... we don't need to ask Paul to shoot all the "clutch shots", especially if he's defending LBJ.

Sorry, I just can't imagine taking a great post player like KG and asking him to move out of his comfort zone, all the while weakening the entire paint area, just because a guy who always gets his 30 points, did so in game one.

There are many adjustments that make more sense, IMHO ... like getting more physical at the point, or using a larger tandem inside. Really great discussion, though, FJR ... I personally love throwing these ideas around, (though you don't need to dish out the "did you read my whole post" type comments ... TP anyway).

Oh sorry I didnt mean it in a negative way.
I like everyone else here just want to see the Celtics win. I think I made my point with 10+ posts in the same thread lol. So thanks everyone for the feedback and hopefully we can get a win tongiht. Go C's.

[BballTim]

Right now, for the playoffs, James is 16-30 on threes, and that's with a man on him.

Giving Lebron a 3ptr is just about the best situation to have him in. Lol you would rather have him driving to the rim?

The switching of KG to a perimeter position and Pierce to a post position weakens not only the one on one defense at those positions but puts two players into positions in the team defensive scheme they are not used to playing. It weakens the ENTIRE team defense as a whole due to the unfamiliarity of the positions being played and the proper rotational assignments at those positions.

Your talking about switching the SF and PF defensive assigments of veteran players that have played for the same defensive coach for 3 years. How can that be unfamiliar. How can that weaken the system?  Pierce is a good rebounder and you get KG around the 15-18 ft mark giving James the 3ptr. How can they not know the proper rotational assigments? They are not rookies.

  First of all, how did letting Wade shoot threes whenever he wanted to work out? Secondly, do you not see that Paul's interior defense is quite inferior to KG's? If Williams drives, is Paul going to alter his shot? How about AV?

What about Perkins he cant help on penetration?

If Williams drives, is Paul going to alter his shot? How about AV?

Your worried about Varejoe putting the ball on the floor against Pierce? That would be a good defensive possesion for us

  So you haven't noticed how we've had problems on defense when KG isn't in the lineup? It's not just being burned by opposing power forwards, it's also from not having help out on penetrations, even when Perk's in the game.

  You want to take our best interior help defender and put him on the perimeter to guard a player that's much faster than him and also stronger. He'll tire fairly quickly if he's not on the bench in foul trouble. We'll give up more points in the paint and Perk will probably get into foul trouble trying to guard the lane on his own. Any time Cleveland can force a switch on the inside we'll have PP guarding Shaq. While we're doing this we'll leave LeBron free to shoot uncontested shots from the outside because KG won't pick him up outside of 18 feet or so. Did I miss anything?

[vgulab]

bad idea! Not worried about KG's defense on Lebron because
James will score 30 again but he can score 30 on 20shoots or 30 on 30shoots that's important. but what i'm worried about is Jamison. he was stopped in game1 and honesly PP can't guard Jamison and that will be a miss match inside the paint. in game 1 defense was solid tonight will be better. we must shut down Jamison and williams and PP only job is to keep Lebron out of the paint. Let lebron have more perimetar shoots and less points in the paint Pierce shoot force lebron to shoot more from outside it will be hard but if pierce do that we will win. mo willams was the guy who beat us in game 1 so key factors for tonight:

1. stop wiliams and jamison
2. force lebron to take more outside shoots and less in the paint

key factors in the offense:

1.KG have to be agresive and should take 20shoots again
2. ray needs to hit 4,5 tree point shoots

[MBz]

I think you need to keep Pierce on LeBron simply because he is the best match up.  KG doesn't have the quickness or speed to stick with LeBron.  I know people are saying we need Pierce to score a lot in this series, but I disagree.  Our favorable match ups are with Rondo, Allen and KG.  They should be using those 3 more while using Pierce more as a decoy.  Even if Pierce is being aggressive offensively against LeBron, I just don't see it being a good match up.  The way they allow LeBron to play defense it's extremely tough to be successful against him.

[Prof. Clutch]

I don't think Pierce got destroyed by Lebron, I think he just tallied what he basically has averaged all season (less in some cases)

Lebron season average:
29.7 points
1 block
1.6 steals
8.6 assists
9.2 rebounds

[Mr October]

Pierce is the best option for guarding Lebron. If he needs rest, play TA and Daniels on Lebron.

I want KG dominating at the power forward position. KG and Rondo are this team's big advantage over the Cavs. Go Celtics!!