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Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« on: July 17, 2008, 12:11:36 PM »

Offline Chief

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From the Chicago Tribune

July 17, 2008

 
More than two weeks have passed since NBA free agency began. Do you know where your 2008-09 Bulls roster is?

General manager John Paxson has stated publicly that no moves can be made until the organization has cost certainty regarding restricted free agents Luol Deng and Ben Gordon. Paxson also has said establishing the team's salary structure would be a priority he would like achieved sooner rather than later.

Yet while high-profile movement such as Baron Davis from the Warriors to the Clippers, Elton Brand from the Clippers to the 76ers and Corey Maggette from the Clippers to the Warriors has transpired in the unrestricted market, little, as usual, has happened among restricted free agents.

Just ask Hawks forward Josh Smith, who was the 76ers' priority until Brand signed and then the Clippers' priority until they traded for Marcus Camby late Tuesday. That move also limited options for Deng, who had been mentioned as a possible Clippers target.



Negotiations between the Bulls and representatives for Deng and Gordon are ongoing, professional—and far apart.

Deng and Gordon have slightly more leverage than last summer, when they turned down five-year extension offers for $57.5 million and $50 million, respectively. They can solicit offer sheets, although only Memphis can currently offer more than the midlevel salary-cap exception, and Grizzlies ownership is in cost-saving mode. They can threaten to sign one-year tender offers and become unrestricted free agents next summer, when the Bulls could lose them for nothing.

Yet there's a reason the restricted free-agent market typically moves slowly. With the team holding the right to match any offer, players have some leverage, but not much.

One reason Deng and Gordon gave for rejecting last year's extensions was that both planned to have greater individual and team success last season. That didn't happen. To pin the blame on Deng and Gordon is wrong because the train wreck involved one and all.

But statistics don't lie. And any way you slice it, both players' statistics dropped. That's one reason the Bulls remain intent on making sure negotiations don't travel higher than the average salary both players turned down last off-season.

With the two sides far apart financially, sources said shorter-term deals have been discussed. Such contracts often are negotiated to bridge differences. They allow players to have security but also to re-enter the free-agent market quicker, presumably, in the players' minds, after a strong performance over the life of the shortened contract.

The Bulls are said to be amenable to such ideas—again, merely seeking cost certainty before making their next move.

Indeed, there's a reason Paxson didn't start shopping Kirk Hinrich for a proven frontcourt player immediately after drafting Derrick Rose. Imagine this scenario: The Bulls trade Hinrich, fail to sign Gordon to an extension and then lose him as an unrestricted free agent in 2009.

Suddenly, a crowded backcourt becomes a crevice. And the Bulls, in that scenario, would be left with Rose, Thabo Sefolosha and Larry Hughes.

When Joe Smith signed as an unrestricted free agent last July 18, the 2007-08 roster was set. No such tidiness will be achieved as quickly this off-season.


So maybe Paxon will be willing to do a sign and trade.


Deng
Gordon

for

Ray Allen
Giddens


It would give the C's some major (young) fire power and the Bulls another expiring contract for the FA summer of 2010.

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Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2008, 12:13:37 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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I get the feeling that Deng, by himself, has more trade value than Ray.  He had a bit of a disappointing year last season, but he's still seen as a top young talent.

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Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2008, 12:20:12 PM »

Offline Emperor Young

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i would do this trade if chicago will take scal off our hands and give us an expiring contract.

Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2008, 12:30:03 PM »

Offline crownsy

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talent wise its a decent enough trade, though i tend to agree with roy on deng.

also, where will pierce be playing after this trade? will deng come off the bench? will gordon accept being a 6th man so pirce can start at the 2?
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Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2008, 12:43:41 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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I think PP would like the trade.  Deng smothered him in a couple of the games.  I don't see this though unless the contracts for Gordon and Deng were relatively short

Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2008, 02:38:07 PM »

Offline Chief

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talent wise its a decent enough trade, though i tend to agree with roy on deng.

also, where will pierce be playing after this trade? will deng come off the bench? will gordon accept being a 6th man so pirce can start at the 2?

I'd say this would be the starting lineup:

Rondo
Pierce
Deng
KG
Perk

Bench:

Pruitt (until we get another pg)
Gordon
Walker
Powe/Davis
O'Bryant

Obviously we would need to sign another pg and sf, but I think this would be a great team.

i would do this trade if chicago will take scal off our hands and give us an expiring contract.

Paxon might take Scalabrine for another expiring contract in 2010. Chicago is looking at the future.
This is probably their progected lineup for the 2010-2011 season.

Rose
Wade (he wants to play with Rose, in his hometown, and they will have lots of money to spend)
Sefolosha
Thomas
Noah

Trade Hinrich for another piece, add a few lottery picks, and this team could be young, talented, and scary.
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
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Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2008, 02:44:56 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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I have zero interest in Ben Gordon.  I would be interested in Deng, Hinrich or Sefolosha, but not Gordon.

Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2008, 03:02:11 PM »

Offline hardlyyardley

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In a heart beat without Gordon...straight up Allen/Deng

Ten yrs...strong defensive 4....expand it to get Hinrich

Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2008, 07:24:18 AM »

Offline Kwhit10

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Yea I'd pass on Gordon too.

Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2008, 07:04:13 PM »

Offline Soy Reek

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Bulls wouldn't give up Deng AND Gordon for Ray and an unproven rookie (Giddens).  No offense to Ray, but he's old.  The Bulls could get more for just Deng, let alone both.  Deng is a lock down defender; hard to come by in the NBA, where offense trumps all.

Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2008, 07:41:02 PM »

Offline zerophase

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talent wise its a decent enough trade, though i tend to agree with roy on deng.

also, where will pierce be playing after this trade? will deng come off the bench? will gordon accept being a 6th man so pirce can start at the 2?

I'd say this would be the starting lineup:

Rondo
Pierce
Deng
KG
Perk

Bench:

Pruitt (until we get another pg)
Gordon
Walker
Powe/Davis
O'Bryant

Obviously we would need to sign another pg and sf, but I think this would be a great team.

i would do this trade if chicago will take scal off our hands and give us an expiring contract.

Paxon might take Scalabrine for another expiring contract in 2010. Chicago is looking at the future.
This is probably their progected lineup for the 2010-2011 season.

Rose
Wade (he wants to play with Rose, in his hometown, and they will have lots of money to spend)
Sefolosha
Thomas
Noah

Trade Hinrich for another piece, add a few lottery picks, and this team could be young, talented, and scary.

i really hate having pierce at the 2. i don't think he's fast enough to guard sg's.

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Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2008, 08:08:46 PM »

Offline bogg

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Deng/Gordon for Allen is ridiculous, but Chicago is an intriguing trading partner. Danny's stated he isn't going to repeat the mistakes of the late 80's and hold onto the core of an aging roster for too long because of sentimental attachment, so I expect Allen to be moved for someone younger either next summer or before the deadline that season. People here seem to have little interest in Gordon, but he'd fit very well at the 2 guard position on this team, offensively speaking at least. He would fill in for Ray as a catch and shoot, spread the floor type of 3 point safety valve excellently, and would open up the floor for Pierce's slashing and midrange game very well. Obviously we lose something on defense, but Gordon should fit the team spectacularly on offense.

Chicago has two players with suitable contracts to make the trade work, and both would fill in interestingly as 6th men on this team. Nocioni would be the preferable player, as he can step into James Poseys' role from last year, and could likely improve on it. He has the size and ability to play either forward position, and enough outside game to stretch the floor as the 4 in our smallball lineup. He would be especially helpful now that we've decided to go small with our backups and resign both Tony and House. Additionally, getting Nocioni's contract off the books(a 6th man making over 8 million dollars on a rebuilding team makes no sense) and adding Allen's sets the Bulls up to have massive cap room in the summer of 2010. They would be looking at Rose and Hinrich in the backcourt, Deng on the wing, either Thomas or Noah underneath, and have enough cap room to max out either Amare or Chris Bosh.

Short of Nocioni, Larry Hughes could be workable, although I don't like this idea nearly as much now that we've decided to bring TA back. I understand the reasons people don't like him(injury prone, not exactly committed, "too many tatoos") but he'd be a good scorer to bring off the bench, a serviceable defender, and someone we could bring in as an emergency ballhandler if we needed to, as well as someone who gives us a big expiring contract next summer.

Again, now that we've brought back TA I don't love the idea of Larry Hughes, so I'm not going to bother defending that particular package, it's just the other contract that would be sensible in a trade. However, if we were to give Gordon closer to what he's looking for, we may be able to convince the Bulls to work out a sign and trade. Something along the lines of Gordon/Nocioni would be a very appealing package for Ray, either Baby or Powe, and maybe a future pick(if necessary) would be something Danny would have to at least give some serious consideration to.

Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2008, 08:14:11 PM »

Offline timepiece33

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Tend to agree with Ray. 

1. No way Chicago does that deal.

2. I for one don't believe Gordon is going to be worth the contract he gets.  Would not even consider Bogg's deal with Gordon as the primary guy.

That said, I don't mind the concept overall. 

To Boston: Luol Deng and Larry Hughes
To Chicago: Ray Allen, Brian Scalabrine, and JR Giddens

Luol Deng brings youth to the mix.  He is more of a long range two/catch and shoot guy, but he could be the 3rd guy and a guy to build upon long term with Rondo and Perkins.  Hughes is so overpaid, it is ridiculous ... but he could be a good backup/6th man.  With Deng, you can play him at the 2 guard AND use his versatility to be the backup 3 to Pierce.  Scalabrine is only included to increase the first year salary base you can offer Deng.   

Ray Allen brings a badly needed veteran presence to a young Chicago team.   They clear themselves of Hughes deplorable contract and get a young SG with upside in Giddens. 

Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2008, 08:26:02 PM »

Offline MaineBleedsGreen

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Time piece - I'm a huge Deng fan, but I'm not sure he can start at the 2. I'd love to see it though. I think the mis-match of having to defend our team would outweigh any deficiency against quicker guards.

Re: Ray Allen to Chicago idea?
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2008, 08:36:07 PM »

Offline Michael Anthony

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Why no love for Gordon? He is not the prototype, but the kid is good at putting the ball in the hole - I cannot think of a better sixth man for this team.
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