On the positive side, can't wait to see a Brown/Smart starting backcourt.

[Stig]

Nah..neither can create his own shot, they won’t appear as backcourts together, most likely one as SF and pair with another PG

[mctyson]

So with much of the news not going the Celtics way, it made me think who is left and something got me very excited. If everything falls into place it appears our starting backcourt could be Marcus Smart at point and Jaylen Brown at the 2.

These guys, to me, didn't play a ton with each other last year. In fact, as a two man group, they were only the 25th highest grouping in minutes played together.

But, they could be the starting guard combo for us this year and play a bunch more minutes together. If they play to their defensive capabilities, this could be a terrorizing defensive backcourt.

They can switch everything. They can outmuscle just about every backcourt in the league. If Brown shoots like he did from Xmas on and Smart shoots like he did all last year, they will be very productive from three. And most importantly, they will set the defensive tone for the rest of the team.

The Celtics will need to grow some scorers from amongst Hayward, Tatum and Brown, but where I think next year's team will need to make their mark, is on defense. And I think a backcourt of Smart and Brown, with Horford and Baynes up front, will create that identity.

Once Jaylen ratcheted up his defense in the playoffs, I couldn't wait for Smart to return to see the damage the duo could do. Unfortunately, Smart didn't return like the Smart we know and the team rolled over in the second half of both games Smart played in, so that never happened.

But I do believe both guys could make All-Defense teams next year and if so, won't that be a great thing to watch?

I for one am not super concerned that there is some massive amount of talent drain happening in Boston.

Addition by subtraction.

[Scintan]

On the positive side, can't wait to see a Brown/Smart starting backcourt.

Outside of small arms fire, what would stop opponents from pressing a lineup of

Brown
Smart
Tatum
Horford
C

into oblivion?

You mean other than the fact that full time pressing doesn't happen in the NBA anymore or the fact Horford might be the best big at bringing up the ball in the league?

No, I mean other than the fact that the theoretical starting 5 would have no ball handling skills to avoid even average defending backcourts from creating turnovers almost at will.  Horford's not going to be escaping the press if there's nobody capable for him to pass the ball to.

And yet since no one presses the ball anymore, it doesn't really matter.

I always love this sort of answer.  It's a complete non-answer framed as wisdom from on high.

Oh, it's a wise answer, just one you don't like because you are asking a hypothetical question about what would happen in a reality that doesn't exist.

Teams don't press anymore because pro teams are too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots.

It's not a wise answer, at all.  It's nothing more than "It's not being done, therefore it won't be done", which is a foolish answer. 

And the whole point of the question is that the lineup noted would not be "too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots", and would not have a skilled enough ball handler to break the press via the dribble.

[nickagneta]

On the positive side, can't wait to see a Brown/Smart starting backcourt.

Outside of small arms fire, what would stop opponents from pressing a lineup of

Brown
Smart
Tatum
Horford
C

into oblivion?

You mean other than the fact that full time pressing doesn't happen in the NBA anymore or the fact Horford might be the best big at bringing up the ball in the league?

No, I mean other than the fact that the theoretical starting 5 would have no ball handling skills to avoid even average defending backcourts from creating turnovers almost at will.  Horford's not going to be escaping the press if there's nobody capable for him to pass the ball to.

And yet since no one presses the ball anymore, it doesn't really matter.

I always love this sort of answer.  It's a complete non-answer framed as wisdom from on high.

Oh, it's a wise answer, just one you don't like because you are asking a hypothetical question about what would happen in a reality that doesn't exist.

Teams don't press anymore because pro teams are too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots.

It's not a wise answer, at all.  It's nothing more than "It's not being done, therefore it won't be done", which is a foolish answer. 

And the whole point of the question is that the lineup noted would not be "too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots", and would not have a skilled enough ball handler to break the press via the dribble.

Your opinion....which I feel is completely wrong. And as for calling my answer foolish...yeah that's against site rules. Do not do that again.

[tenn_smoothie]

Brown and Smart - our two attack dogs. I love it.

[SCeltic34]

I think our team will be much, much more enjoyable to watch with a Smart/Brown/Tatum/Horford lineup.  More involvement of Horford, better ball movement, better chemistry - a team that will be playing more for each other than for themselves.  Ridding ourselves of Rozier and Morris (I know Morris was solid in the playoffs, but he's a black hole in the regular season) would also probably help.

Can't wallow because we didn't get AD.  Move forward with Brown and Tatum.

[jambr380]

This isn't really relevant to the backcourt, but I will be very disappointed if Hayward isn't starting next year. I see a lot of people pushing for Baynes at C and Horford at PF - which is good in theory, even proven in 2017-2018 - but Baynes isn't AD and we now still have a glut of quality wings. Tatum and Smart going out in an AD deal was supposed to fix this problem.

Besides, I think Terry will be starting on opening night - hopefully not at the expense of Brown.

I really don't want to run into the 'too many good players' problem again next season - especially since we are no longer going to have an All-NBA 2nd team level one on this team anymore.

[tenn_smoothie]

I think our team will be much, much more enjoyable to watch with a Smart/Brown/Tatum/Horford lineup.  More involvement of Horford, better ball movement, better chemistry - a team that will be playing more for each other than for themselves.  Ridding ourselves of Rozier and Morris (I know Morris was solid in the playoffs, but he's a black hole in the regular season) would also probably help.

Can't wallow because we didn't get AD.  Move forward with Brown and Tatum.

You forgetting about Hayward. He is going to be much more effective without Kyrie dominating the ball and his health and confidence will continue to improve.

[Scintan]

On the positive side, can't wait to see a Brown/Smart starting backcourt.

Outside of small arms fire, what would stop opponents from pressing a lineup of

Brown
Smart
Tatum
Horford
C

into oblivion?

You mean other than the fact that full time pressing doesn't happen in the NBA anymore or the fact Horford might be the best big at bringing up the ball in the league?

No, I mean other than the fact that the theoretical starting 5 would have no ball handling skills to avoid even average defending backcourts from creating turnovers almost at will.  Horford's not going to be escaping the press if there's nobody capable for him to pass the ball to.

And yet since no one presses the ball anymore, it doesn't really matter.

I always love this sort of answer.  It's a complete non-answer framed as wisdom from on high.

Oh, it's a wise answer, just one you don't like because you are asking a hypothetical question about what would happen in a reality that doesn't exist.

Teams don't press anymore because pro teams are too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots.

It's not a wise answer, at all.  It's nothing more than "It's not being done, therefore it won't be done", which is a foolish answer. 

And the whole point of the question is that the lineup noted would not be "too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots", and would not have a skilled enough ball handler to break the press via the dribble.

Your opinion....which I feel is completely wrong. And as for calling my answer foolish...yeah that's against site rules. Do not do that again.

I'm not going to argue this.  I'm just going to point out that you called the answer a wise answer in response to my noting that it was not really an answer at all.  And not being able to respond to that sort of thing is why I left for years.

So don't worry about my response, as it wasn't an attempt at anything nefarious, but was merely a rebuttal to the claim of wisdom.  I'll just leave again, and hope that a more reasonable policy is developed over time.



Later.

[bellerephon]

On the positive side, can't wait to see a Brown/Smart starting backcourt.

Outside of small arms fire, what would stop opponents from pressing a lineup of

Brown
Smart
Tatum
Horford
C

into oblivion?

You mean other than the fact that full time pressing doesn't happen in the NBA anymore or the fact Horford might be the best big at bringing up the ball in the league?

No, I mean other than the fact that the theoretical starting 5 would have no ball handling skills to avoid even average defending backcourts from creating turnovers almost at will.  Horford's not going to be escaping the press if there's nobody capable for him to pass the ball to.

And yet since no one presses the ball anymore, it doesn't really matter.

I always love this sort of answer.  It's a complete non-answer framed as wisdom from on high.

Oh, it's a wise answer, just one you don't like because you are asking a hypothetical question about what would happen in a reality that doesn't exist.

Teams don't press anymore because pro teams are too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots.

It's not a wise answer, at all.  It's nothing more than "It's not being done, therefore it won't be done", which is a foolish answer. 

And the whole point of the question is that the lineup noted would not be "too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots", and would not have a skilled enough ball handler to break the press via the dribble.

Your opinion....which I feel is completely wrong. And as for calling my answer foolish...yeah that's against site rules. Do not do that again.

I'm not going to argue this.  I'm just going to point out that you called the answer a wise answer in response to my noting that it was not really an answer at all.  And not being able to respond to that sort of thing is why I left for years.

So don't worry about my response, as it wasn't an attempt at anything nefarious, but was merely a rebuttal to the claim of wisdom.  I'll just leave again, and hope that a more reasonable policy is developed over time.



Later.

The full court press is not used very much in the NBA for very good reasons. One of which is that NBA point guards are skilled enough ball handlers and passers to beat the press without too much trouble. I think Smart can handle the press well enough, but even if you doubt that there are other good reasons why the press does not work well in the NBA.

It renders the team's half court defense vulnerable, if they are pressing then they are not set and NBA teams can exploit that for easy baskets. NBA teams also have secondary ball handlers that make it relatively simple to break a press. Hayward, Horford (if he stays) Tatum and Brown can all handle the ball well enough that together they can break a press. They aren't great ball handlers, but they don't need to be, someone will always be open if the other team is pressing, you just need to find that man and NBA teams can do that.

Another reason that the press doesn't work that well in the NBA is that you can design schemes to defeat it. A few well thought out plays can negate a press, even high school teams do this pretty effectively, an NBA team would have no trouble. Lastly, pressing is exhausting for the defense, most teams can't keep it up for a whole game.

Pressing can be useful as a surprise tactic if you catch the other team off guard, but if you try to to it too much you will get burned. And when teams do press, they mostly try to steal the in-bounds pass, that's a tactic that can work, but once the ball is in pressing is not usually a winning tactic in the NBA.

[nickagneta]

On the positive side, can't wait to see a Brown/Smart starting backcourt.

Outside of small arms fire, what would stop opponents from pressing a lineup of

Brown
Smart
Tatum
Horford
C

into oblivion?

You mean other than the fact that full time pressing doesn't happen in the NBA anymore or the fact Horford might be the best big at bringing up the ball in the league?

No, I mean other than the fact that the theoretical starting 5 would have no ball handling skills to avoid even average defending backcourts from creating turnovers almost at will.  Horford's not going to be escaping the press if there's nobody capable for him to pass the ball to.

And yet since no one presses the ball anymore, it doesn't really matter.

I always love this sort of answer.  It's a complete non-answer framed as wisdom from on high.

Oh, it's a wise answer, just one you don't like because you are asking a hypothetical question about what would happen in a reality that doesn't exist.

Teams don't press anymore because pro teams are too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots.

It's not a wise answer, at all.  It's nothing more than "It's not being done, therefore it won't be done", which is a foolish answer. 

And the whole point of the question is that the lineup noted would not be "too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots", and would not have a skilled enough ball handler to break the press via the dribble.

Your opinion....which I feel is completely wrong. And as for calling my answer foolish...yeah that's against site rules. Do not do that again.

I'm not going to argue this.  I'm just going to point out that you called the answer a wise answer in response to my noting that it was not really an answer at all.  And not being able to respond to that sort of thing is why I left for years.

So don't worry about my response, as it wasn't an attempt at anything nefarious, but was merely a rebuttal to the claim of wisdom.  I'll just leave again, and hope that a more reasonable policy is developed over time.



Later.

If you don't like the responses people give you and feel your only way to respond is to be insulting, then yeah, goodbye. This blog doesn't need that type of contributions.

[Who]

The full court press died when they changed the hand-checking rules. It is hard enough to stay in front of someone 25 feet from the basket with 4 teammates backing you up. It is darn near impossible to do it 94 feet from the basket. Guys just fly by you.

It is not that the skill-level of the players have improved. It was the rule change. That is why we hardly ever see it anymore.

[Scintan]

On the positive side, can't wait to see a Brown/Smart starting backcourt.

Outside of small arms fire, what would stop opponents from pressing a lineup of

Brown
Smart
Tatum
Horford
C

into oblivion?

You mean other than the fact that full time pressing doesn't happen in the NBA anymore or the fact Horford might be the best big at bringing up the ball in the league?

No, I mean other than the fact that the theoretical starting 5 would have no ball handling skills to avoid even average defending backcourts from creating turnovers almost at will.  Horford's not going to be escaping the press if there's nobody capable for him to pass the ball to.

And yet since no one presses the ball anymore, it doesn't really matter.

I always love this sort of answer.  It's a complete non-answer framed as wisdom from on high.

Oh, it's a wise answer, just one you don't like because you are asking a hypothetical question about what would happen in a reality that doesn't exist.

Teams don't press anymore because pro teams are too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots.

It's not a wise answer, at all.  It's nothing more than "It's not being done, therefore it won't be done", which is a foolish answer. 

And the whole point of the question is that the lineup noted would not be "too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots", and would not have a skilled enough ball handler to break the press via the dribble.

Your opinion....which I feel is completely wrong. And as for calling my answer foolish...yeah that's against site rules. Do not do that again.

I'm not going to argue this.  I'm just going to point out that you called the answer a wise answer in response to my noting that it was not really an answer at all.  And not being able to respond to that sort of thing is why I left for years.

So don't worry about my response, as it wasn't an attempt at anything nefarious, but was merely a rebuttal to the claim of wisdom.  I'll just leave again, and hope that a more reasonable policy is developed over time.



Later.

If you don't like the responses people give you and feel your only way to respond is to be insulting, then yeah, goodbye. This blog doesn't need that type of contributions.

Just to respond specifically to this, because you're claiming that I was insulting:  I didn't insult anyone.  In response to you claim that AN ANSWER was wise, I used an antonym.  It was nothing more than that.  Here is a link to a list of antonyms.

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/wise



I didn't insult anyone, and my language was consistent with appropriate English.  Now, having defended myself, I wish you well.

[JBcat]

I think our team will be much, much more enjoyable to watch with a Smart/Brown/Tatum/Horford lineup.  More involvement of Horford, better ball movement, better chemistry - a team that will be playing more for each other than for themselves.  Ridding ourselves of Rozier and Morris (I know Morris was solid in the playoffs, but he's a black hole in the regular season) would also probably help.

Can't wallow because we didn't get AD.  Move forward with Brown and Tatum.

You forgetting about Hayward. He is going to be much more effective without Kyrie dominating the ball and his health and confidence will continue to improve.

I’m very curious what a Brown, Hayward, Tatum offense looks like minus Irving.  Many players break out the 3rd and 4th years of the career which is where Tatum and Brown are, and Hayward will have an off-season of training not rehabbing possibly a redemption year for him.  I could see all 3 averaging close to 20 a game if all goes right.  I could also see Hayward being kind of a point forward too lessening the burden for Smart and Rozier if we bring Rozier back.

[nickagneta]

On the positive side, can't wait to see a Brown/Smart starting backcourt.

Outside of small arms fire, what would stop opponents from pressing a lineup of

Brown
Smart
Tatum
Horford
C

into oblivion?

You mean other than the fact that full time pressing doesn't happen in the NBA anymore or the fact Horford might be the best big at bringing up the ball in the league?

No, I mean other than the fact that the theoretical starting 5 would have no ball handling skills to avoid even average defending backcourts from creating turnovers almost at will.  Horford's not going to be escaping the press if there's nobody capable for him to pass the ball to.

And yet since no one presses the ball anymore, it doesn't really matter.

I always love this sort of answer.  It's a complete non-answer framed as wisdom from on high.

Oh, it's a wise answer, just one you don't like because you are asking a hypothetical question about what would happen in a reality that doesn't exist.

Teams don't press anymore because pro teams are too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots.

It's not a wise answer, at all.  It's nothing more than "It's not being done, therefore it won't be done", which is a foolish answer. 

And the whole point of the question is that the lineup noted would not be "too good at breaking it through the pass and making teams regret doing it by beating the press for easy uncontested shots", and would not have a skilled enough ball handler to break the press via the dribble.

Your opinion....which I feel is completely wrong. And as for calling my answer foolish...yeah that's against site rules. Do not do that again.

I'm not going to argue this.  I'm just going to point out that you called the answer a wise answer in response to my noting that it was not really an answer at all.  And not being able to respond to that sort of thing is why I left for years.

So don't worry about my response, as it wasn't an attempt at anything nefarious, but was merely a rebuttal to the claim of wisdom.  I'll just leave again, and hope that a more reasonable policy is developed over time.



Later.

If you don't like the responses people give you and feel your only way to respond is to be insulting, then yeah, goodbye. This blog doesn't need that type of contributions.

Just to respond specifically to this, because you're claiming that I was insulting:  I didn't insult anyone.  In response to you claim that AN ANSWER was wise, I used an antonym.  It was nothing more than that.  Here is a link to a list of antonyms.

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/wise



I didn't insult anyone, and my language was consistent with appropriate English.  Now, having defended myself, I wish you well.

From site rules:
Respect each other at all times. Personal attacks are not permitted under any circumstances.  There is no need for name-calling or harassment of any poster. This includes behavior in all areas of Celticsblog, including forum posts, blog comments and personal messages. While we encourage lively debate there is no reason for anyone to disrespect a fellow poster's ideas.  Note: There is no distinction between personally attacking a poster (i.e., "You are stupid") and attacking a posters ideas (i.e., "Your idea is stupid").

https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=10.0

Insulting someone's idea or answer is insulting the poster. It is very much against site rules. Your condescending public reply isn't much better. Have a nice vacation.