Bucks (2-1) at Celtics (1-2) Round 2 Game 4 5/6/19

[blink]

Brad has to do something different in game 5 or it's just madness. Why did he play Kyrie for 44 minutes.

What happened to the game one Celtics?

From The Ringer: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/5/6/18534921/winners-losers-bucks-celtics-rockets-warriors-game-4

"Brad Stevens might not feel he has many other options. But for a coach who uses his men so fluidly at the wing despite their true position, it’s becoming inexcusable to not at least try his other options, even if that means going super small with three guards, or playing Aron Baynes (seven minutes in Game 4) fully knowing he’d wind up guarding the deep ball. At this point, any shift to the lineup is worthwhile."

If kyrie is going to play so poorly, Stevens just needs to sit him for longer and hopefully go over with him face to face what isn't working.  It was painful watching Kyrie do the same thing over and over again as well.  Drive in, get doubled, throw the ball away or take a bad shot himself.  That plan isn't working, we need to morph back into the team that moves the ball and where no one is playing hero ball, let the open man take the shot and play the way we should.

[cltc5]

Why is it so difficult to see that our best bench offense has Hayward at the pint and Terry as a SG.  Yet still Rozier hogs the ball like he’s done since day one and Hayward hangs around, completely out of the flow of the offense.  Brad Stevens has got to wake up and stuck with what works and stop shifting rotations in and out that don’t work.

[RJ87]

In Kyrie's defense (somewhat) the Bucks are gearing their entire defense to slowing him down. The way the Celtics have tried to build a wall against Giannis - the Bucks are doing the same to Kyrie. 

He's getting guarded initially by Bledsoe (and Hill) and they're doing their best to stay in front of him and make it as difficult as possible from him to drive, but when he gets by the initial guard he's getting picked up the the 2nd layer - usually guys like Lopez or Giannis and they're succeeding in making it very difficult to get to the basket.  If he drives they contest everything. If he kicks, the ball moves and they miss a 3.  If someone else would get hot and make some shots, then Kyrie would be able do more.

But if no one else can make a shot, then it becomes a lot easier to guard him.

Except that (bolded) wasn't what happened tonight.  Literally all the other 4 starters shot way better than Kyrie.  The narrative that all the other 4 guys suck and if we just had someone else who could hit a shot wasn't true tonight.  It hasn't been true all series.  Kyrie hasn't hit shots, and he keeps taking a boat load of them, and keeps dribbling into the middle with no plan and turns the ball over, or forces a bad 3. 

We may not have gotten the perfect effort from the other 4 guys, but at least (2) of them Morris and Brown were scoring well this game.  Kyrie had more shots than both of them combined.  Kyrie has to be smart enough to recognize that spazzing out and forcing drives and forcing bad shots isn't going to beat a good team.  In this series he never figured that out.

I am done apologizing for Kyrie.  He is the star, he needs to play like one, both in shooting, but intelligent ball handling, distribution and defense.  We haven't gotten any of that from him in this series except game 1.

Honestly, we have to credit the bucks for executing their game plan.  Their plan was to wall off Kyrie, not let him get where he wanted, and force him to distribute or take bad shots.  The plan has worked really well.

The starters shot better but that's not really saying much. The team shot 38% from the field and 22% from three. George Hill singlehandedly outscored our bench. The idea that Kyrie is just refusing to pass the ball is untrue, he had 10 assists tonight.

Maybe he should pull a Gordon Hayward and take 5 shots next game. If the Great White Hope can get away with it, why can't he?

[blink]

In Kyrie's defense (somewhat) the Bucks are gearing their entire defense to slowing him down. The way the Celtics have tried to build a wall against Giannis - the Bucks are doing the same to Kyrie. 

He's getting guarded initially by Bledsoe (and Hill) and they're doing their best to stay in front of him and make it as difficult as possible from him to drive, but when he gets by the initial guard he's getting picked up the the 2nd layer - usually guys like Lopez or Giannis and they're succeeding in making it very difficult to get to the basket.  If he drives they contest everything. If he kicks, the ball moves and they miss a 3.  If someone else would get hot and make some shots, then Kyrie would be able do more.

But if no one else can make a shot, then it becomes a lot easier to guard him.

Except that (bolded) wasn't what happened tonight.  Literally all the other 4 starters shot way better than Kyrie.  The narrative that all the other 4 guys suck and if we just had someone else who could hit a shot wasn't true tonight.  It hasn't been true all series.  Kyrie hasn't hit shots, and he keeps taking a boat load of them, and keeps dribbling into the middle with no plan and turns the ball over, or forces a bad 3. 

We may not have gotten the perfect effort from the other 4 guys, but at least (2) of them Morris and Brown were scoring well this game.  Kyrie had more shots than both of them combined.  Kyrie has to be smart enough to recognize that spazzing out and forcing drives and forcing bad shots isn't going to beat a good team.  In this series he never figured that out.

I am done apologizing for Kyrie.  He is the star, he needs to play like one, both in shooting, but intelligent ball handling, distribution and defense.  We haven't gotten any of that from him in this series except game 1.

Honestly, we have to credit the bucks for executing their game plan.  Their plan was to wall off Kyrie, not let him get where he wanted, and force him to distribute or take bad shots.  The plan has worked really well.

The starters shot better but that's not really saying much. The team shot 38% from the field and 22% from three. George Hill singlehandedly outscored our bench. The idea that Kyrie is just refusing to pass the ball is untrue, he had 10 assists tonight.

Maybe he should pull a Gordon Hayward and take 5 shots next game. If the Great White Hope can get away with it, why can't he?

I wasn't arguing that the bench played well, they completely sucked.  I never said that Kyrie didn't pass the ball, he couldn't get 10 assists if other guys weren't hitting shots.  Our other starters shot 24/51 = 47%.  The other 4 starters weren't the problem on offense, that was Kyrie. 

Kyrie : 22% for game 2, 36% for game 3, 32% for game 4. 

When the all star guy that is supposed to be leading you takes the most shots by far is throwing up those numbers, he has to take a lot of the blame.  It wasn't just his missed shots, it was the turnovers, the really bad shots, the bad defense, the body language, the lack of leadership.  It was a **** show for that tonight.

[Ogaju]

Kyrie getting clowned by Charles and Shaq.

[SparzWizard]

Kyrie getting clowned by Charles and Shaq.

The whole Celtics getting clowned by Charles. He's pretty much right that they're not winning another game this season.

And Paul Pierce is about to get his rep further damaged with that silly "It's over" comment.

[blink]

Kyrie getting clowned by Charles and Shaq.

The whole Celtics getting clowned by Charles. He's pretty much right that they're not winning another game this season.

And Paul Pierce is about to get his rep further damaged with that silly "It's over" comment.

It is going to take a while for PP to live that one down unfortunately.

[Ogaju]

Kyrie getting clowned by Charles and Shaq.

The whole Celtics getting clowned by Charles. He's pretty much right that they're not winning another game this season.

And Paul Pierce is about to get his rep further damaged with that silly "It's over" comment.

It might rate as the worst take by an analyst in a long time. He is on that show to give expert opinion on the game of basketball. To call a playoff series OVER after one game is not an expert opinion. He pretty much said he did not see where Milwaukee could go from that game.  Shows he had  no clue.

[liam]

I believe that The Defense in this game was the problem not The Offense. The Celtics should be able to win a game where they score over 100 points. Our Offense was not great but The Defense which is supposed to be good gave up 113 and an avalanche of layups and open shots. We held the Bucks to 90 points in game one and after that the Bucks have been scoring at will. 123 in game two and 123 in game 3. 113 in game 4. If we hold the Bucks under 100 in the games 2-4 we would've swept. They have to get back to a defense first approach.

[RJ87]

In Kyrie's defense (somewhat) the Bucks are gearing their entire defense to slowing him down. The way the Celtics have tried to build a wall against Giannis - the Bucks are doing the same to Kyrie. 

He's getting guarded initially by Bledsoe (and Hill) and they're doing their best to stay in front of him and make it as difficult as possible from him to drive, but when he gets by the initial guard he's getting picked up the the 2nd layer - usually guys like Lopez or Giannis and they're succeeding in making it very difficult to get to the basket.  If he drives they contest everything. If he kicks, the ball moves and they miss a 3.  If someone else would get hot and make some shots, then Kyrie would be able do more.

But if no one else can make a shot, then it becomes a lot easier to guard him.

Except that (bolded) wasn't what happened tonight.  Literally all the other 4 starters shot way better than Kyrie.  The narrative that all the other 4 guys suck and if we just had someone else who could hit a shot wasn't true tonight.  It hasn't been true all series.  Kyrie hasn't hit shots, and he keeps taking a boat load of them, and keeps dribbling into the middle with no plan and turns the ball over, or forces a bad 3. 

We may not have gotten the perfect effort from the other 4 guys, but at least (2) of them Morris and Brown were scoring well this game.  Kyrie had more shots than both of them combined.  Kyrie has to be smart enough to recognize that spazzing out and forcing drives and forcing bad shots isn't going to beat a good team.  In this series he never figured that out.

I am done apologizing for Kyrie.  He is the star, he needs to play like one, both in shooting, but intelligent ball handling, distribution and defense.  We haven't gotten any of that from him in this series except game 1.

Honestly, we have to credit the bucks for executing their game plan.  Their plan was to wall off Kyrie, not let him get where he wanted, and force him to distribute or take bad shots.  The plan has worked really well.

The starters shot better but that's not really saying much. The team shot 38% from the field and 22% from three. George Hill singlehandedly outscored our bench. The idea that Kyrie is just refusing to pass the ball is untrue, he had 10 assists tonight.

Maybe he should pull a Gordon Hayward and take 5 shots next game. If the Great White Hope can get away with it, why can't he?

I wasn't arguing that the bench played well, they completely sucked.  I never said that Kyrie didn't pass the ball, he couldn't get 10 assists if other guys weren't hitting shots.  Our other starters shot 24/51 = 47%.  The other 4 starters weren't the problem on offense, that was Kyrie.

You're presenting it as if he only ever plays with the starters. There were quite a few instances of him driving to the paint, collapsing the defense, and kicking it out to Rozier or Smart and they brick the shots. Or when he runs a DHO with Gordon and Gordon refuses to shoot.

It's not even making excuses because i'm disappointed in his play. But it's been full season of him taking 100% of the blame. Meanwhile the Great White Hope has legitimately turned into Evan Turner this series.

[jpotter33]

Brad has to do something different in game 5 or it's just madness. Why did he play Kyrie for 44 minutes.

What happened to the game one Celtics?

From The Ringer: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/5/6/18534921/winners-losers-bucks-celtics-rockets-warriors-game-4

"Brad Stevens might not feel he has many other options. But for a coach who uses his men so fluidly at the wing despite their true position, it’s becoming inexcusable to not at least try his other options, even if that means going super small with three guards, or playing Aron Baynes (seven minutes in Game 4) fully knowing he’d wind up guarding the deep ball. At this point, any shift to the lineup is worthwhile."

Yeah, after a post-game frustration-fueled back workout, this is what I’ve been thinking about - what changes are we going to make for game five?

We literally haven’t made any successful adjustments since game 1, and Brad has just been banking on us making more shots and that fueling better defense. Clearly that hasn’t worked, so we must try something else.

As I’ve been saying since the playoffs started and since we’ve known about Smart’s injury, you need another playmaker in there to help Kyrie, as Smart’s presence in the starting lineup was so successful due to him being another playmaker to allow Kyrie to play off the balk.

That’s why I think you start either Hayward or Smart in place of Tatum, who has been beyond disappointing this series. That gives Kyrie another perimeter playmaker to allow him to play off the ball, where he excels. I’d go with Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Morris, abd Horford with Smart, Tatum, Semi, and Baynes off the bench. Rozier doesn’t deserve playing time at this point, as he actively hurts us on both ends when he’s in now.

[blink]

In Kyrie's defense (somewhat) the Bucks are gearing their entire defense to slowing him down. The way the Celtics have tried to build a wall against Giannis - the Bucks are doing the same to Kyrie. 

He's getting guarded initially by Bledsoe (and Hill) and they're doing their best to stay in front of him and make it as difficult as possible from him to drive, but when he gets by the initial guard he's getting picked up the the 2nd layer - usually guys like Lopez or Giannis and they're succeeding in making it very difficult to get to the basket.  If he drives they contest everything. If he kicks, the ball moves and they miss a 3.  If someone else would get hot and make some shots, then Kyrie would be able do more.

But if no one else can make a shot, then it becomes a lot easier to guard him.

Except that (bolded) wasn't what happened tonight.  Literally all the other 4 starters shot way better than Kyrie.  The narrative that all the other 4 guys suck and if we just had someone else who could hit a shot wasn't true tonight.  It hasn't been true all series.  Kyrie hasn't hit shots, and he keeps taking a boat load of them, and keeps dribbling into the middle with no plan and turns the ball over, or forces a bad 3. 

We may not have gotten the perfect effort from the other 4 guys, but at least (2) of them Morris and Brown were scoring well this game.  Kyrie had more shots than both of them combined.  Kyrie has to be smart enough to recognize that spazzing out and forcing drives and forcing bad shots isn't going to beat a good team.  In this series he never figured that out.

I am done apologizing for Kyrie.  He is the star, he needs to play like one, both in shooting, but intelligent ball handling, distribution and defense.  We haven't gotten any of that from him in this series except game 1.

Honestly, we have to credit the bucks for executing their game plan.  Their plan was to wall off Kyrie, not let him get where he wanted, and force him to distribute or take bad shots.  The plan has worked really well.

The starters shot better but that's not really saying much. The team shot 38% from the field and 22% from three. George Hill singlehandedly outscored our bench. The idea that Kyrie is just refusing to pass the ball is untrue, he had 10 assists tonight.

Maybe he should pull a Gordon Hayward and take 5 shots next game. If the Great White Hope can get away with it, why can't he?

I wasn't arguing that the bench played well, they completely sucked.  I never said that Kyrie didn't pass the ball, he couldn't get 10 assists if other guys weren't hitting shots.  Our other starters shot 24/51 = 47%.  The other 4 starters weren't the problem on offense, that was Kyrie.

You're presenting it as if he only ever plays with the starters. There were quite a few instances of him driving to the paint, collapsing the defense, and kicking it out to Rozier or Smart and they brick the shots. Or when he runs a DHO with Gordon and Gordon refuses to shoot.

It's not even making excuses because i'm disappointed in his play. But it's been full season of him taking 100% of the blame.

I haven't blamed him much at all this season.   Honestly during the regular seaso he was great, he on a nightly basis lived up to the hype.  I am not on the hate Kyrie side of the fence.  I am on the watching the games and try to describe what I see side of the fence.

But his play in this series has been bad.  We can't have our best player play like this and expect to win.  I know GH hasn't played well and that has been the 2nd most disappointing thing about this series. 

But KI wanted the leadership of the team, he wanted to be the guy.  He has called out the younger guys for the poor play.  Well he is the guy, and for whatever reasons, he hasn't done the things to help us adjust in this series.  Does that mean we shouldn't try to resign him?  No, but it sure does make you wonder if Kyrie wouldn't be a problem even if we were able to trade for Davis.

[jpotter33]

In Kyrie's defense (somewhat) the Bucks are gearing their entire defense to slowing him down. The way the Celtics have tried to build a wall against Giannis - the Bucks are doing the same to Kyrie. 

He's getting guarded initially by Bledsoe (and Hill) and they're doing their best to stay in front of him and make it as difficult as possible from him to drive, but when he gets by the initial guard he's getting picked up the the 2nd layer - usually guys like Lopez or Giannis and they're succeeding in making it very difficult to get to the basket.  If he drives they contest everything. If he kicks, the ball moves and they miss a 3.  If someone else would get hot and make some shots, then Kyrie would be able do more.

But if no one else can make a shot, then it becomes a lot easier to guard him.

Except that (bolded) wasn't what happened tonight.  Literally all the other 4 starters shot way better than Kyrie.  The narrative that all the other 4 guys suck and if we just had someone else who could hit a shot wasn't true tonight.  It hasn't been true all series.  Kyrie hasn't hit shots, and he keeps taking a boat load of them, and keeps dribbling into the middle with no plan and turns the ball over, or forces a bad 3. 

We may not have gotten the perfect effort from the other 4 guys, but at least (2) of them Morris and Brown were scoring well this game.  Kyrie had more shots than both of them combined.  Kyrie has to be smart enough to recognize that spazzing out and forcing drives and forcing bad shots isn't going to beat a good team.  In this series he never figured that out.

I am done apologizing for Kyrie.  He is the star, he needs to play like one, both in shooting, but intelligent ball handling, distribution and defense.  We haven't gotten any of that from him in this series except game 1.

Honestly, we have to credit the bucks for executing their game plan.  Their plan was to wall off Kyrie, not let him get where he wanted, and force him to distribute or take bad shots.  The plan has worked really well.

The starters shot better but that's not really saying much. The team shot 38% from the field and 22% from three. George Hill singlehandedly outscored our bench. The idea that Kyrie is just refusing to pass the ball is untrue, he had 10 assists tonight.

Maybe he should pull a Gordon Hayward and take 5 shots next game. If the Great White Hope can get away with it, why can't he?

I wasn't arguing that the bench played well, they completely sucked.  I never said that Kyrie didn't pass the ball, he couldn't get 10 assists if other guys weren't hitting shots.  Our other starters shot 24/51 = 47%.  The other 4 starters weren't the problem on offense, that was Kyrie.

You're presenting it as if he only ever plays with the starters. There were quite a few instances of him driving to the paint, collapsing the defense, and kicking it out to Rozier or Smart and they brick the shots. Or when he runs a DHO with Gordon and Gordon refuses to shoot.

It's not even making excuses because i'm disappointed in his play. But it's been full season of him taking 100% of the blame. Meanwhile the Great White Hope has legitimately turned into Evan Turner this series.

You keep using this term. I sincerely hope this is not an attempt to suggest that Gordon being white has anything to do with your perception that he doesn’t get his deserved blame, as that’s completely inappropriate and off-base.

Not only are these completely different situations (Kyrie is the outright leader and multi-time All Star of the group which comes with more responsibility; Gordon coming off of a career-altering injury; etc.), but you’re not paying attention if you think that Gordon hasn’t had his fair share of blame and complaints on this blog, both fair and unfair.

Gordon absolutely is a major factor in these guys’ struggles, but Kyrie gets a bigger share of the blame because he’s the leader and outright best player on the team. That comes with more responsibilities, which results in blame when they’re not met.

[ozgod]

Brad has to do something different in game 5 or it's just madness. Why did he play Kyrie for 44 minutes.

What happened to the game one Celtics?

From The Ringer: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/5/6/18534921/winners-losers-bucks-celtics-rockets-warriors-game-4

"Brad Stevens might not feel he has many other options. But for a coach who uses his men so fluidly at the wing despite their true position, it’s becoming inexcusable to not at least try his other options, even if that means going super small with three guards, or playing Aron Baynes (seven minutes in Game 4) fully knowing he’d wind up guarding the deep ball. At this point, any shift to the lineup is worthwhile."

Unfortunately liam, it was when Brad went to the 3 guard combo of Irving, Rozier and Smart in the 3rd that the game started to get away from us. I'm not sure what else Brad can try, though he probably should try something. End of day players need to make shots.

[liam]

Brad has to do something different in game 5 or it's just madness. Why did he play Kyrie for 44 minutes.

What happened to the game one Celtics?

From The Ringer: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/5/6/18534921/winners-losers-bucks-celtics-rockets-warriors-game-4

"Brad Stevens might not feel he has many other options. But for a coach who uses his men so fluidly at the wing despite their true position, it’s becoming inexcusable to not at least try his other options, even if that means going super small with three guards, or playing Aron Baynes (seven minutes in Game 4) fully knowing he’d wind up guarding the deep ball. At this point, any shift to the lineup is worthwhile."

Yeah, after a post-game frustration-fueled back workout, this is what I’ve been thinking about - what changes are we going to make for game five?

We literally haven’t made any successful adjustments since game 1, and Brad has just been banking on us making more shots and that fueling better defense. Clearly that hasn’t worked, so we must try something else.

As I’ve been saying since the playoffs started and since we’ve known about Smart’s injury, you need another playmaker in there to help Kyrie, as Smart’s presence in the starting lineup was so successful due to him being another playmaker to allow Kyrie to play off the balk.

That’s why I think you start either Hayward or Smart in place of Tatum, who has been beyond disappointing this series. That gives Kyrie another perimeter playmaker to allow him to play off the ball, where he excels. I’d go with Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Morris, abd Horford with Smart, Tatum, Semi, and Baynes off the bench. Rozier doesn’t deserve playing time at this point, as he actively hurts us on both ends when he’s in now.

Brad definitely has to shake things up. I like adding a playmaker to the first unit. I'm not sure that Hayward or Smart is shooting well enough to help in this series. I would love to see Semi and also Theis play more. Neither one of those guys have gotten any burn but when they did play played well. We need more size against The Bucks. Yabu, Theis and TIMELORD should all have gotten some run in this series as well as Wanamaker who can shoot. Rozier and small ball aren't working and haven't worked this whole series. The only game we won was when we went big! Go big or go home!