Author Topic: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East  (Read 10092 times)

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Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« on: January 16, 2021, 01:34:40 PM »

Online Moranis

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Remember when the East was so weak that Lebron could just waltz into the Finals because the East lacked stars and the West was uber deep.  Ah how things have changed now that Lebron is out west. 

Durant, Harden, Butler, and Westbrook are all now in the East. 

Half of last years All NBA Teams are now in the East and that doesn't include Durant or Irving (though to be fair also doesn't include Curry). 

The vast majority of the rising stars (i.e. guys still on rookie contracts) are also currently in the East with Luka, Morant, and Zion basically the only ones in the West. 

Now sure many of the best players are still out West but it is starting to even out again and I expect the East will probably overtake the West with top tier talent in the next year or so as people look to avoid meeting Lebron in the playoffs. 
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Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2021, 01:46:01 PM »

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AD3, CP3/Booker, Dame/CJ, Kawhi/PG13, Zion, Morant, Luka, Curry/Klay, KAT, Mitchell, Murray/Jokic are all still in the West


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Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2021, 02:44:55 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Remember when the East was so weak that Lebron could just waltz into the Finals because the East lacked stars and the West was uber deep.  Ah how things have changed now that Lebron is out west. 

Durant, Harden, Butler, and Westbrook are all now in the East. 

Half of last years All NBA Teams are now in the East and that doesn't include Durant or Irving (though to be fair also doesn't include Curry). 

The vast majority of the rising stars (i.e. guys still on rookie contracts) are also currently in the East with Luka, Morant, and Zion basically the only ones in the West. 

Now sure many of the best players are still out West but it is starting to even out again and I expect the East will probably overtake the West with top tier talent in the next year or so as people look to avoid meeting Lebron in the playoffs.

I don't think many people consider Westbrook to be some big star, if they do they just look at raw stats. I think we all believe Beal is good, but if Westbrook was a real star I don't think they would be 3-8 and he is probably close to a negative asset with this contract at this point.

Butler seems like a strange inclusion given he has spent 9 out the ten seasons in his career in the east.

As far as the young players go, we got Simmons, Embid and Tatum in the east, but I think Morant Zion and Luka are maybe the biggest three young stars in the game?

But honestly just doing the eye test what teams do we really think are good in the east?
Bucks, Celtics, Heat and Nets, Philly seem like good to very good teams but it really seems to get muddled after that. The Raptors seem to have taken a step back losing Gasol and Ibaka. Washington can't defend a parked car as Beal says. Bulls, Pistons, Cavs, Magic, Knicks, Hornets? Yikes, that is a real lot of bad teams...

The east looks particularly bad to me right now and I kind of just shuddered realizing some of the teams that will make the playoffs this year. So yeah, completely disagree with your post.

Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2021, 02:46:55 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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AD3, CP3/Booker, Dame/CJ, Kawhi/PG13, Zion, Morant, Luka, Curry/Klay, KAT, Mitchell, Murray/Jokic are all still in the West

Yeah this was a really strange post. If you just look at the standings the teams that are jockeying for playoffs in the west and east is night and day. I get Moranis is a big lebron guy, but there are a lot of more compelling arguments he could make to do a pro lebron post. This doesn't pass the sniff test.

Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2021, 03:50:52 PM »

Online Moranis

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AD3, CP3/Booker, Dame/CJ, Kawhi/PG13, Zion, Morant, Luka, Curry/Klay, KAT, Mitchell, Murray/Jokic are all still in the West

Yeah this was a really strange post. If you just look at the standings the teams that are jockeying for playoffs in the west and east is night and day. I get Moranis is a big lebron guy, but there are a lot of more compelling arguments he could make to do a pro lebron post. This doesn't pass the sniff test.
Most of those guys were in the West when Lebron was in the East though and most of them are the same team that drafted them (and a lot haven't had a free agency period either). 

Of the big free agent moves and trades since Lebron went west, you have AD going from West to West, you have Kawhi being traded East then moving back West, you have Durant going East, Butler getting traded East and then staying East, you have Harden and Westbrook getting traded from West to East, CP3 and George getting traded West to West, Irving going from East to East.  Those are the players that have been All NBA Team members that have switched teams since Lebron went to the Lakers.  More have gone East then West. 

Lebron's last year in the East, the only Eastern players on the 3 All NBA Teams were Lebron, DeRozan, Giannis, Embiid, and Oladipo.  Lebron's 1st year out West there were also 5 in the East - Giannis, Embiid, Irving, Griffin, and Kemba.  Last year there were only 5 - Giannis, Siakam, Butler, Simmons, and Tatum.  However Harden and Westbrook are both now in the East (so 7 of last year's All NBA Team members are East).  It is pretty likely that Embiid and Durant are back on All NBA Teams this year, though Westbrook or Siakam could drop off pretty easily.  Irving, if he comes back and actually plays, Bam, Jaylen, and Beal also all have pretty good shots not to mention younger players like Young or LaVine.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the East with more All NBA Team players than the West for the first time in a very long time. 
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Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2021, 06:55:29 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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AD3, CP3/Booker, Dame/CJ, Kawhi/PG13, Zion, Morant, Luka, Curry/Klay, KAT, Mitchell, Murray/Jokic are all still in the West

Yeah this was a really strange post. If you just look at the standings the teams that are jockeying for playoffs in the west and east is night and day. I get Moranis is a big lebron guy, but there are a lot of more compelling arguments he could make to do a pro lebron post. This doesn't pass the sniff test.
Most of those guys were in the West when Lebron was in the East though and most of them are the same team that drafted them (and a lot haven't had a free agency period either). 

Of the big free agent moves and trades since Lebron went west, you have AD going from West to West, you have Kawhi being traded East then moving back West, you have Durant going East, Butler getting traded East and then staying East, you have Harden and Westbrook getting traded from West to East, CP3 and George getting traded West to West, Irving going from East to East.  Those are the players that have been All NBA Team members that have switched teams since Lebron went to the Lakers.  More have gone East then West. 

Lebron's last year in the East, the only Eastern players on the 3 All NBA Teams were Lebron, DeRozan, Giannis, Embiid, and Oladipo.  Lebron's 1st year out West there were also 5 in the East - Giannis, Embiid, Irving, Griffin, and Kemba.  Last year there were only 5 - Giannis, Siakam, Butler, Simmons, and Tatum.  However Harden and Westbrook are both now in the East (so 7 of last year's All NBA Team members are East).  It is pretty likely that Embiid and Durant are back on All NBA Teams this year, though Westbrook or Siakam could drop off pretty easily.  Irving, if he comes back and actually plays, Bam, Jaylen, and Beal also all have pretty good shots not to mention younger players like Young or LaVine.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the East with more All NBA Team players than the West for the first time in a very long time.

Honestly it’s just a bad take. The west is much tougher right now. The Celtics and bucks are going to play the Knicks or magic in the first round. The lakers will play a team like the warriors, jazz or blazers. Oddly this actually strengthens Lebrons resume if he wins again, so your post is just strange. Also honestly who gives a heck where Westbrook is playing. You consider him a star or something?

Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2021, 09:25:41 AM »

Offline cman88

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The east has definitely caught up to the west. It used to be there were 1-2 "real" contenders in the east and there was a big dropoff to the rest. in the early 00's the east was abysmal. I mean those Iverson Sixers teams didnt belong in the finals. and they got destroyed by the lakers.

as much as i loved those teams, the IT4 celtics and run to game 7 against the depleted cavs celtics really overachieved in those years making it to the ECF

but I would put the Nets, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, Heat all in the upper echelon teams in the east at least having 2 stars

Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2021, 11:49:04 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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The east has definitely caught up to the west. It used to be there were 1-2 "real" contenders in the east and there was a big dropoff to the rest. in the early 00's the east was abysmal. I mean those Iverson Sixers teams didnt belong in the finals. and they got destroyed by the lakers.

as much as i loved those teams, the IT4 celtics and run to game 7 against the depleted cavs celtics really overachieved in those years making it to the ECF

but I would put the Nets, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, Heat all in the upper echelon teams in the east at least having 2 stars

I agree the east has caught up some at the top compared to the IT years and that time frame, but the problem is after that too 5 it really seems like tons and tons of mediocrity, especially if raptors can’t get it together. The west on the other hand is going to have some really good team probably not make the playoffs.

Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2021, 11:58:00 AM »

Online Moranis

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The east has definitely caught up to the west. It used to be there were 1-2 "real" contenders in the east and there was a big dropoff to the rest. in the early 00's the east was abysmal. I mean those Iverson Sixers teams didnt belong in the finals. and they got destroyed by the lakers.

as much as i loved those teams, the IT4 celtics and run to game 7 against the depleted cavs celtics really overachieved in those years making it to the ECF

but I would put the Nets, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, Heat all in the upper echelon teams in the east at least having 2 stars

I agree the east has caught up some at the top compared to the IT years and that time frame, but the problem is after that too 5 it really seems like tons and tons of mediocrity, especially if raptors can’t get it together. The west on the other hand is going to have some really good team probably not make the playoffs.
Miami isn't in the top 5 in the East right now either.  And a very mediocre Spurs team is currently in the playoffs out west.  I think you are greatly overestimating the mediocrity of the West.  Sure both LA teams look great and Denver and Utah are probably going to be pretty good (with Dallas rising), but after that, nothing to write home about.  And that is mostly so because the talent is evening out in the conferences, which was basically the point I was making.  Top tier players are moving East.  Now sure, maybe it isn't because of Lebron and some other reason, but for basically a decade everyone seemingly wanted to go West and now all of a sudden the East is the place to be.
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Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2021, 12:56:36 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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The east has definitely caught up to the west. It used to be there were 1-2 "real" contenders in the east and there was a big dropoff to the rest. in the early 00's the east was abysmal. I mean those Iverson Sixers teams didnt belong in the finals. and they got destroyed by the lakers.

as much as i loved those teams, the IT4 celtics and run to game 7 against the depleted cavs celtics really overachieved in those years making it to the ECF

but I would put the Nets, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, Heat all in the upper echelon teams in the east at least having 2 stars

I agree the east has caught up some at the top compared to the IT years and that time frame, but the problem is after that too 5 it really seems like tons and tons of mediocrity, especially if raptors can’t get it together. The west on the other hand is going to have some really good team probably not make the playoffs.
Miami isn't in the top 5 in the East right now either.  And a very mediocre Spurs team is currently in the playoffs out west.  I think you are greatly overestimating the mediocrity of the West.  Sure both LA teams look great and Denver and Utah are probably going to be pretty good (with Dallas rising), but after that, nothing to write home about.  And that is mostly so because the talent is evening out in the conferences, which was basically the point I was making.  Top tier players are moving East.  Now sure, maybe it isn't because of Lebron and some other reason, but for basically a decade everyone seemingly wanted to go West and now all of a sudden the East is the place to be.

I disagree. I think Portland has a lot of talent and is still working to figure it out. Apparently Nurkic had a very rough offseason and is still working back, but him lillard, mccollum and covington is a real lot of talent. I am not sure if they are there yet, but think Pelicans have a lot of talent with Zion, Ingram, Ball, Adams and Bledsoe. You also did not mention the suns who some are calling a dark horse contender with booker, paul and ayton. You compare these three teams to say the knicks, magic, hawks, and they are substantially better. It is a battle every night our west where in the east we have a real lot of garbage teams.

Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2021, 01:04:58 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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So we're just going to act like the Lakers didn't have a terrible year with Lebron his first year there, and they traded for Anthony Davis a year later. It's clearly not just Lebron despite what everyone wants to argue.
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Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2021, 08:41:45 PM »

Online Moranis

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The east has definitely caught up to the west. It used to be there were 1-2 "real" contenders in the east and there was a big dropoff to the rest. in the early 00's the east was abysmal. I mean those Iverson Sixers teams didnt belong in the finals. and they got destroyed by the lakers.

as much as i loved those teams, the IT4 celtics and run to game 7 against the depleted cavs celtics really overachieved in those years making it to the ECF

but I would put the Nets, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, Heat all in the upper echelon teams in the east at least having 2 stars

I agree the east has caught up some at the top compared to the IT years and that time frame, but the problem is after that too 5 it really seems like tons and tons of mediocrity, especially if raptors can’t get it together. The west on the other hand is going to have some really good team probably not make the playoffs.
Miami isn't in the top 5 in the East right now either.  And a very mediocre Spurs team is currently in the playoffs out west.  I think you are greatly overestimating the mediocrity of the West.  Sure both LA teams look great and Denver and Utah are probably going to be pretty good (with Dallas rising), but after that, nothing to write home about.  And that is mostly so because the talent is evening out in the conferences, which was basically the point I was making.  Top tier players are moving East.  Now sure, maybe it isn't because of Lebron and some other reason, but for basically a decade everyone seemingly wanted to go West and now all of a sudden the East is the place to be.

I disagree. I think Portland has a lot of talent and is still working to figure it out. Apparently Nurkic had a very rough offseason and is still working back, but him lillard, mccollum and covington is a real lot of talent. I am not sure if they are there yet, but think Pelicans have a lot of talent with Zion, Ingram, Ball, Adams and Bledsoe. You also did not mention the suns who some are calling a dark horse contender with booker, paul and ayton. You compare these three teams to say the knicks, magic, hawks, and they are substantially better. It is a battle every night our west where in the east we have a real lot of garbage teams.

LAL > MIL
LAC = PHI
DEN < BKN
UTA = BOS
POR < MIA
PHO = IND

That is the top 6 in each conference, pretty darn even. 

Dallas is clearly the next best team.  After that though, I don't think there is a whole lot of difference between Toronto, Orlando, Atlanta, and Charlotte and teams like San Antonio, Memphis, New Orleans, and Oklahoma City.

The conference imbalance just isn't anywhere near what it once was and that is because the talent is much more evenly dispersed between the conferences than any time in the last decade. 
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Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2021, 08:51:55 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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The east has definitely caught up to the west. It used to be there were 1-2 "real" contenders in the east and there was a big dropoff to the rest. in the early 00's the east was abysmal. I mean those Iverson Sixers teams didnt belong in the finals. and they got destroyed by the lakers.

as much as i loved those teams, the IT4 celtics and run to game 7 against the depleted cavs celtics really overachieved in those years making it to the ECF

but I would put the Nets, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, Heat all in the upper echelon teams in the east at least having 2 stars

I agree the east has caught up some at the top compared to the IT years and that time frame, but the problem is after that too 5 it really seems like tons and tons of mediocrity, especially if raptors can’t get it together. The west on the other hand is going to have some really good team probably not make the playoffs.
Miami isn't in the top 5 in the East right now either.  And a very mediocre Spurs team is currently in the playoffs out west.  I think you are greatly overestimating the mediocrity of the West.  Sure both LA teams look great and Denver and Utah are probably going to be pretty good (with Dallas rising), but after that, nothing to write home about.  And that is mostly so because the talent is evening out in the conferences, which was basically the point I was making.  Top tier players are moving East.  Now sure, maybe it isn't because of Lebron and some other reason, but for basically a decade everyone seemingly wanted to go West and now all of a sudden the East is the place to be.

I disagree. I think Portland has a lot of talent and is still working to figure it out. Apparently Nurkic had a very rough offseason and is still working back, but him lillard, mccollum and covington is a real lot of talent. I am not sure if they are there yet, but think Pelicans have a lot of talent with Zion, Ingram, Ball, Adams and Bledsoe. You also did not mention the suns who some are calling a dark horse contender with booker, paul and ayton. You compare these three teams to say the knicks, magic, hawks, and they are substantially better. It is a battle every night our west where in the east we have a real lot of garbage teams.

LAL > MIL
LAC = PHI
DEN < BKN
UTA = BOS
POR < MIA
PHO = IND

That is the top 6 in each conference, pretty darn even. 

Dallas is clearly the next best team.  After that though, I don't think there is a whole lot of difference between Toronto, Orlando, Atlanta, and Charlotte and teams like San Antonio, Memphis, New Orleans, and Oklahoma City.

The conference imbalance just isn't anywhere near what it once was and that is because the talent is much more evenly dispersed between the conferences than any time in the last decade.

Pretty crazy to have Philly above LAC right now. How is Indiana better than Phoenix? They just lost oladipo for an injured levert and they were already pretty questionable. Not sure about phoenix being better than the heat. As you mention you are not even including Dallas who i think most would say is better than Indiana and possibly some of these other teams.

Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2021, 10:11:11 PM »

Online Moranis

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The east has definitely caught up to the west. It used to be there were 1-2 "real" contenders in the east and there was a big dropoff to the rest. in the early 00's the east was abysmal. I mean those Iverson Sixers teams didnt belong in the finals. and they got destroyed by the lakers.

as much as i loved those teams, the IT4 celtics and run to game 7 against the depleted cavs celtics really overachieved in those years making it to the ECF

but I would put the Nets, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, Heat all in the upper echelon teams in the east at least having 2 stars

I agree the east has caught up some at the top compared to the IT years and that time frame, but the problem is after that too 5 it really seems like tons and tons of mediocrity, especially if raptors can’t get it together. The west on the other hand is going to have some really good team probably not make the playoffs.
Miami isn't in the top 5 in the East right now either.  And a very mediocre Spurs team is currently in the playoffs out west.  I think you are greatly overestimating the mediocrity of the West.  Sure both LA teams look great and Denver and Utah are probably going to be pretty good (with Dallas rising), but after that, nothing to write home about.  And that is mostly so because the talent is evening out in the conferences, which was basically the point I was making.  Top tier players are moving East.  Now sure, maybe it isn't because of Lebron and some other reason, but for basically a decade everyone seemingly wanted to go West and now all of a sudden the East is the place to be.

I disagree. I think Portland has a lot of talent and is still working to figure it out. Apparently Nurkic had a very rough offseason and is still working back, but him lillard, mccollum and covington is a real lot of talent. I am not sure if they are there yet, but think Pelicans have a lot of talent with Zion, Ingram, Ball, Adams and Bledsoe. You also did not mention the suns who some are calling a dark horse contender with booker, paul and ayton. You compare these three teams to say the knicks, magic, hawks, and they are substantially better. It is a battle every night our west where in the east we have a real lot of garbage teams.

LAL > MIL
LAC = PHI
DEN < BKN
UTA = BOS
POR < MIA
PHO = IND

That is the top 6 in each conference, pretty darn even. 

Dallas is clearly the next best team.  After that though, I don't think there is a whole lot of difference between Toronto, Orlando, Atlanta, and Charlotte and teams like San Antonio, Memphis, New Orleans, and Oklahoma City.

The conference imbalance just isn't anywhere near what it once was and that is because the talent is much more evenly dispersed between the conferences than any time in the last decade.

Pretty crazy to have Philly above LAC right now. How is Indiana better than Phoenix? They just lost oladipo for an injured levert and they were already pretty questionable. Not sure about phoenix being better than the heat. As you mention you are not even including Dallas who i think most would say is better than Indiana and possibly some of these other teams.
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Re: Lebron out West - Stars migrating East
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2021, 11:04:01 PM »

Offline staticcc

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The east has definitely caught up to the west. It used to be there were 1-2 "real" contenders in the east and there was a big dropoff to the rest. in the early 00's the east was abysmal. I mean those Iverson Sixers teams didnt belong in the finals. and they got destroyed by the lakers.

as much as i loved those teams, the IT4 celtics and run to game 7 against the depleted cavs celtics really overachieved in those years making it to the ECF

but I would put the Nets, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, Heat all in the upper echelon teams in the east at least having 2 stars

I agree the east has caught up some at the top compared to the IT years and that time frame, but the problem is after that too 5 it really seems like tons and tons of mediocrity, especially if raptors can’t get it together. The west on the other hand is going to have some really good team probably not make the playoffs.
Miami isn't in the top 5 in the East right now either.  And a very mediocre Spurs team is currently in the playoffs out west.  I think you are greatly overestimating the mediocrity of the West.  Sure both LA teams look great and Denver and Utah are probably going to be pretty good (with Dallas rising), but after that, nothing to write home about.  And that is mostly so because the talent is evening out in the conferences, which was basically the point I was making.  Top tier players are moving East.  Now sure, maybe it isn't because of Lebron and some other reason, but for basically a decade everyone seemingly wanted to go West and now all of a sudden the East is the place to be.

I disagree. I think Portland has a lot of talent and is still working to figure it out. Apparently Nurkic had a very rough offseason and is still working back, but him lillard, mccollum and covington is a real lot of talent. I am not sure if they are there yet, but think Pelicans have a lot of talent with Zion, Ingram, Ball, Adams and Bledsoe. You also did not mention the suns who some are calling a dark horse contender with booker, paul and ayton. You compare these three teams to say the knicks, magic, hawks, and they are substantially better. It is a battle every night our west where in the east we have a real lot of garbage teams.

LAL > MIL
LAC = PHI
DEN < BKN
UTA = BOS
POR < MIA
PHO = IND

That is the top 6 in each conference, pretty darn even. 

Dallas is clearly the next best team.  After that though, I don't think there is a whole lot of difference between Toronto, Orlando, Atlanta, and Charlotte and teams like San Antonio, Memphis, New Orleans, and Oklahoma City.

The conference imbalance just isn't anywhere near what it once was and that is because the talent is much more evenly dispersed between the conferences than any time in the last decade.

Conveniently leaving out potential 7 and 8 seeds that LAL and LAC will face like GS with Curry and Dal with Doncic?

While top teams in the East essentially get byes with the Knicks/Magic/Hornets.

No byes in the West. Top East teams still face easier path.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 02:10:12 AM by staticcc »
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