Author Topic: Anyone else sick of FIBA?  (Read 31120 times)

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Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« on: September 10, 2010, 12:17:12 PM »

Offline CelticHooligan3

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This is probably gonna come off as a rant and it most likely is but I'm so sick and tired of watching how the game is played according to the FIBA rules. Today is the last straw for me because they are asking the NBA to change it's goaltending rule. They think all players should be able to knock the ball off the rim. I'm assuming this is in response to the fact the NBA correctly and rightfully had FIBA make changes to the shape of the lanes. Going from the trapazoid to the normal rectangle were used to in the NBA.

First that's a silly rule to put your foot down on. How many clutch or game winning shots have we seen over the years roll around the basket? Plenty. But with these rules those nail biting moments would be quickly swept away with a simple flick of the wrist. Makes for an uglier lower scoring game that takes away dramatic moments that are quite frankly what sets this game apart.

The hand checking and physical play is another thing. Yes I'm aware the NBA at one point was a lot closer to this type of play. But why'd we get rid if it? So players with actual skills could better display their wares and we as fans could see a higher grade product. And tho I hate the man that's one thing David Stern got right. This is not rugby or football. Allowing guys on the perimeter and down low to play so physically evens the playing field. And not in a good way. Because guys with less skills are able to neutralize the guys with actual skills. Not exactly beneficial to the product on the floor. At least from this fans standpoint.

And finally where are they getting all these other rules from anyways? Last I checked this game was invented in Springfield Massachusetts!! In the UNITED STATES of AMERICA! We invented this game I think we'd know the proper rules. I know the rest of the world frowns on us but if you like our sport play it by our rules. The proper ones. Just because you don't like us as a country doesn't mean you can take our game put your own context to it then call it "World Basketball". That's pretty ignorant. I mean you don't see the U.S. Soccer team and it's fans demanding we tween the rules in the world cup. Or playing by different rules here. It's all the same. It's a matter of respect for the simple fact whoever invented the game invented the rules. And those will be the ones for EVERYONE to abide by. Why that doesn't relate in the game of basketball is baffling to me. To me it's extremely ridiculous and ignorant. Ya we invented this game sorry. If you don't line it go play squash or something. Don't change the rules then say those are the ones the world plays by. Sorry it's our game we came up with it too bad if you don't like the rules. Soccer fans would go nuts if you ever tried to pull this wool over their eyes. Their would be riots all over the world. So give us the same respect and play by our rules the rightful ones.

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2010, 12:20:56 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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not getting into your debate, but i thought i should point out, although the game was created in springfield, dr. james naismith was canadian.

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2010, 12:22:39 PM »

Offline Tai

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I do agree that the goaltending rule for the NBA should stand. It might be fun to see in the World Championships and I guess the Olympics, but in the NBA? No thanks.

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2010, 12:43:13 PM »

Offline CelticHooligan3

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not getting into your debate, but i thought i should point out, although the game was created in springfield, dr. james naismith was canadian.


Well apparently you just did. And ya he was born in Canada and lived most his life and died in America. Like lots of immigrants. I'll go out on a limb here and say that he'd consider himself American. Just like a lot of our ancestors and forefathers who moved to America from a different country for a better life, future, and quality of living. I'd consider him an American but to each his own. Maybe your really a dark lord. Or maybe you just like star wars a lot. All in the eyes of the beholder my friend.

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2010, 01:16:40 PM »

Offline thelittleticket

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I have been watching a lot of FIBA basketball, and I personally don't have a problem with them playing with slightly different rules.  After the tournament they are changing several aspects, including the shape of the key, the distance of the 3-point line, and the addition of a semi-circle under the basket.

The FIBA game is never going to be perfectly 100% interchangeable with the American game.  The court dimensions are never going to be the same (metric system doesn't measure out to 94 feet perfectly).  They rules are going to encourage a playing style that allows less talented players to compete with better ones.  You have to remember that, though we use the word "Euroleague" a lot, there is no one league.  There are scores of leagues in dozens of countries.  That leads to a talent pool that is so far watered down that it would be as if NBA teams and college teams played in the same league.

The 'club' system that is used in professional sports in Europe is much different than the 'franchise' system that we use over here.  It allows certain teams with deep pockets to scoop up the best talent with no consideration, like draft picks or profit sharing, for the smaller teams.  It is a goal of FIBA in Europe to allow the smaller teams to compete better with the bigger ones, so the hand checking and physical play that lets less skilled players compete with more skilled players is an economic and political advantage in Europe.

Now, I don't agree with FIBA telling us that we should change our rules.  The NBA has done a lot since its inception to create new rules that help the game (shot clock, 3-point line, 3-second rule to name a few).  I have no doubt that the commissioner's office is constantly analyzing every problem with the league and trying to find a reasonable solution.  We don't need FIBA, whose league operates with substantially different goals and means, making decisions for us.

I guess the crux of my argument is that, while FIBA should not be trying to tell the NBA how to play, we need to understand that the rules differences in European basketball are there to address some real and important differences between the way leagues in America operate and the way the leagues in Europe do.

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2010, 01:32:39 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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No need to change the goaltending rule. Either way is fine.

The best justification for getting rid of the trapezoidal lane is not rule parity between FIBA and the NBA, but that the team shooting free throws has a guy closer to the rim. That doesn't make sense. If they want a wider lane, they need a hexagon that is like the trapezoid, but the half on the baseline straightens out so that the sides of the lane are parallel like in the NBA (though they would be farther apart than in the NBA).

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2010, 01:41:16 PM »

Offline CelticHooligan3

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So what I'm gathering here is your point is that all these rules are used by FIBA to level the playing field. I'm not denying that at all. In fact your spot on. But your missing my point. If your main concern is leveling the playing field so that other teams and players can compete with the top talent then you ultimatley run the risk of watering down the ultimate product on the floor. It's not the same game. Yes it's more physical yes the dimensions of the court aren't the same ( tho the very easily could be. That not impossible to change) but what's that all really do? Just what you said. Even the playing field. If that's the goal why don't we just start out with corrupt referees?

The point I was making was why do we need to level the playing field in the first place? You don't see everyone in Europe and South America calling for the rules in soccer to be changed to be more physical because the brazilians depend on finesse and usually win. Same deal here. There should be one set of rules and court dimensions etc. And we should have the final say on that because we invented the game. Period.

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2010, 01:44:46 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Not to put words in your mouth but it sounds less like you're sick of FIBA and more sick of general political tendencies that you're ascribing to FIBA.  FIBA is their own organization and can make their own rules if they want; it doesn't mean they're somehow insulting America.  Different people play games differently.

To use a silly example, beer pong originally involved a cup in each corner of a standard ping-pong table and one guy on each side playing actual ping-pong with a paddle.  As the game spread, other places adopted their own rules and now the game looks very different.  Doesn't mean they aren't doing things "properly" or are insulting the original creators - it's a game, the rules are essentially consensual, not written in stone by whoever got there first.

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2010, 01:50:19 PM »

Offline CelticHooligan3

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I keep going back to the soccer analogy but it best shows my point. I see where your going fairwearher fan and I completely understand. But why is this not an issue in soccer? The two main sports that the world collectively play are soccer and basketball. There are only different rules in basketball. This is not an issue with soccer. Why is that? The game started here it should be played by our rules universally. Just like soccer.

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2010, 02:02:40 PM »

Offline CelticHooligan3

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Not to put words in your mouth but it sounds less like you're sick of FIBA and more sick of general political tendencies that you're ascribing to FIBA.  FIBA is their own organization and can make their own rules if they want; it doesn't mean they're somehow insulting America.  Different people play games differently.

To use a silly example, beer pong originally involved a cup in each corner of a standard ping-pong table and one guy on each side playing actual ping-pong with a paddle.  As the game spread, other places adopted their own rules and now the game looks very different.  Doesn't mean they aren't doing things "properly" or are insulting the original creators - it's a game, the rules are essentially consensual, not written in stone by whoever got there first.



Your right tho. For me personally the anti-American crowds are old and annoying. The bogus travelling calls are head scratching at best. The hip checking players on wide open fast breaks is fascinating to watch. Your right FIBA can make any rules they want. They can play with a tennis ball and yarn and call it basketball. Doesn't mean it is tho. The game they flaunt looks like something out of the dark ages compared to the NBA. If that's your kinda game then FIBAs for you. Personally I prefer a game where the players with athleticism and skill set themselves apart from the ones who are simply overmatched and just use physical play to level the field

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2010, 02:13:44 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Not to put words in your mouth but it sounds less like you're sick of FIBA and more sick of general political tendencies that you're ascribing to FIBA.  FIBA is their own organization and can make their own rules if they want; it doesn't mean they're somehow insulting America.  Different people play games differently.

To use a silly example, beer pong originally involved a cup in each corner of a standard ping-pong table and one guy on each side playing actual ping-pong with a paddle.  As the game spread, other places adopted their own rules and now the game looks very different.  Doesn't mean they aren't doing things "properly" or are insulting the original creators - it's a game, the rules are essentially consensual, not written in stone by whoever got there first.

Your right tho. For me personally the anti-American crowds are old and annoying. The bogus travelling calls are head scratching at best. The hip checking players on wide open fast breaks is fascinating to watch. Your right FIBA can make any rules they want. They can play with a tennis ball and yarn and call it basketball. Doesn't mean it is tho. The game they flaunt looks like something out of the dark ages compared to the NBA. If that's your kinda game then FIBAs for you. Personally I prefer a game where the players with athleticism and skill set themselves apart from the ones who are simply overmatched and just use physical play to level the field

Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on the NCAA ruleset?

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2010, 02:16:14 PM »

Offline ienjoybasketball

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I like basketball, so ive been watching some world championship games, and i cant wait till the nba starts again.  All of the rules are insane.  KG would be raining down 3 pointers with that line, its like they are playing in high school gyms (the attendance isnt much better than a high school game either).

What the hell is the point of a key shaped like a pyramid?  So the offense can get rebounds off a missed free throw?  FIBA should stop trying to tell us how to make our rules and take a look at the terrible rules they use.  

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2010, 02:25:30 PM »

Offline ACF

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 First off and as far as I could tell dark_lord merely stated a well known fact. That Naismith was indeed a Canadian citizen by birth. Just as, say, Arnold Schwarzenegger is Austrian by birth. Also, why mock his screen name? I am sure most people do not feel you are really a Hooligan even though that's the handle you chose. Did Naismith feel American? We will never know and you could be right. But you could also be wrong. Secondly, why do you feel that so many people hate America and what has that got to do with basketball? I am sure there a lots of things that people around the world do not like about your country but that could be said about any country. There is stuff in Denmark that bugs the (bad word) out of me. But that's an entirely different discussion and one that belongs in the Current Events forums. That said, you could be right in what you said about the international rules. And I am sure each and every true basketball fan would rather watch an NBA game than an international game. But to say that FIBA enforces different rules just to annoy Americans is just plain silly, IMHO. And finally, it's "football", not soccer. Played with the feet, you know?  ;)

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2010, 02:28:49 PM »

Offline CelticHooligan3

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Not to put words in your mouth but it sounds less like you're sick of FIBA and more sick of general political tendencies that you're ascribing to FIBA.  FIBA is their own organization and can make their own rules if they want; it doesn't mean they're somehow insulting America.  Different people play games differently.

To use a silly example, beer pong originally involved a cup in each corner of a standard ping-pong table and one guy on each side playing actual ping-pong with a paddle.  As the game spread, other places adopted their own rules and now the game looks very different.  Doesn't mean they aren't doing things "properly" or are insulting the original creators - it's a game, the rules are essentially consensual, not written in stone by whoever got there first.

Your right tho. For me personally the anti-American crowds are old and annoying. The bogus travelling calls are head scratching at best. The hip checking players on wide open fast breaks is fascinating to watch. Your right FIBA can make any rules they want. They can play with a tennis ball and yarn and call it basketball.
Doesn't mean it is tho. The game they flaunt looks like something out of the dark ages compared to the NBA. If that's your kinda game then FIBAs for you. Personally I prefer a game where the players with athleticism and skill set themselves apart from the ones who are simply overmatched and just use physical play to level the field

Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on the NCAA ruleset?





Don't have one. I don't follow it as closely as I do the NBA. Although I do know it's rules are closer to the NBA then FIBA rules. And I may be wrong about this but hasn't the NCAA been mulling changing a few rules of their own to make it closer to NBA rules? Namely the three point line..

Re: Anyone else sick of FIBA?
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2010, 02:37:56 PM »

Offline CelticHooligan3

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First off and as far as I could tell dark_lord merely stated a well known fact. That Naismith was indeed a Canadian citizen by birth. Just as, say, Arnold Schwarzenegger is Austrian by birth. Also, why mock his screen name? I am sure most people do not feel you are really a Hooligan even though that's the handle you chose. Did Naismith feel American? We will never know and you could be right. But you could also be wrong. Secondly, why do you feel that so many people hate America and what has that got to do with basketball? I am sure there a lots of things that people around the world do not like about your country but that could be said about any country. There is stuff in Denmark that bugs the (bad word) out of me. But that's an entirely different discussion and one that belongs in the Current Events forums. That said, you could be right in what you
said about the international rules. And I am sure each and every true basketball fan would rather watch an NBA game than an international game. But to say that FIBA enforces different rules just to annoy Americans is just plain silly, IMHO. And
finally, it's "football", not soccer. Played with the feet, you
know?  ;)


First off I'm pretty sure darklord can speak for himself. He doesn't need a body guard. Secondly I didn't mock his name at all and I addressed the fact that different things can mean
 different things to different people. And yes I'm well aware it's called football or futbol. But in this country many people call it soccer so I called it soccer so people here would understand on layman terms. Are you now mocking me for not calling it football? And calling it soccer? Where's my
bodyguard? Boohoo.

And at what point did I say FIBA used these rules to annoy Americans? You clearly missedmy point entirely if that what your writing back in response to me. Go back and read what I wrote if your unclear. Don't put words in my mouth. Thanks.