The "start the season" regular season roster is a matter of fact now but after 2 games, there is some variation in the bench rotations.
Holiday Pritchard Banton
White Mykhailiuk Stevens
Brown Hauser Walsh
Tatum Brissett
Porzingis Horford Kornet
two-way: Davison, Knight, Queta
I don't agree with it but it appears that the starters will include both White and Holiday and Horford will come off the bench as the 6th starter. Pritchard and Hauser seem to have their slots established the 7th and 8th guys. In game 1, Kornet got 8 min, Brissett 0 min and in game 2, Kornet 0 min and Brissett 14 min as I guess the 9th guy or 3rd big (so I gave Brissett the edge over Kornet as he played more minutes). The remaining players did not play so it is hard to say for example where Stevens is relative to Mykhailiuk, I gave the edge to Svi as he got his contract first, but for sure, Banton and Walsh are 3rd string.
I felt that Brissett was much better in the back up PF role (with Horford as the back up C) than having Kornet as the back up C (forcing Horford to be the back up PF). The latter forced Holiday to cover Randle because Kornet couldn't, he did fine, but it makes no sense to me to have an elite guard defender covering a PF. To me, it would have made way more sense to use Brissett to cover Randle, like they had Brissett on Adebayo, even if that meant less minutes for Kornet and/or Pritchard.
My problem with the starting unit (and using that unit so much) isn't so much about Horford coming off the bench, I actually see that as a good role for him, it is just too many guards on the floor. You end up with things like Holiday covering Randle. And the other thing is that it needs to be established who is the PG when Holiday and White are on the floor. You don't need two. I think it is White that needs to play off Holiday, and he can probably do that, but why not split these guys so that we have at least one on the court as the PG all the time? The more time they are on the court together, the more time they are off together and that means more time Pritchard is the PG.
The line up numbers are early but already, there is a trend that indicates we are best with only one of Holiday or White on the court (per36), OK with both, but clearly worse without either (meaning Pritchard):
White + Holiday together 53 min / +5 (+3.4 per36)
One of Holiday or White 35 min / +8 (+8.2 per36)
No White/Holiday (Pritchard) 10min / -1 (-3.6 per36)
I know it is only 2 games and I think White and Holiday will figure out how to play better together and get that number up some (I sense that Holiday is deferring as he figures it out), but it isn't surprising that if both White and Holiday are off and we have Pritchard, that the result is demonstratively worse and this trend is likely to continue.
Holiday and White actually became our best interior defenders somehow in the Heat game. Holiday grabbed some huge rebounds and disrupted passes that allowed White time to make key blocks as the Heat tried and failed to take advantage of a perceived mismatch with Bam or Jimmy down low. Holiday was also excellent again Randle, frustrating him to a poor shooting night.
I understand your concerns with the smaller lineup. The Smart/White lineups bothered me last year, especially in the playoffs. However, I do think that Holiday is slightly better than Smart from a physical and rebounding standpoint (he made some absolutely huge rebounds in the Heat game). Without any evidence to back this up, I always felt like Smart in recent years played lighter than he used to be which decreased his ability to pound inside. I don't know if this was a personal choice for him or some decision based on becoming more svelte for offensive/speed purposes, but it was noticeable to me. It also helps that White underwent a bulking up regimen over the offseason which was a direct response to his inability to match up physically when targeted on switches, most notably in the Heat series. Yesterday's performance must have been a tremendous validation for him and the work he put in.
Regarding their ability to play together, I think both are known for their versatility on and off the ball so it's not a big deal that neither is designated the "point guard." Regarding Pritchard's minutes, I think if he can't prove to be capable as a regular rotation guy, they'll just eventually find a replacement instead of rejiggering White and Holiday's minutes to account for his ineffectiveness.
The thing is, as much as players say the right thing there are always politics involved. Let's be totally honest, they were never going to seriously consider not starting Holiday. He's not able to sign an extension yet and he has little trust built with the staff or management. It would have been difficult at such an early stage to convince him he's now a bench player after he made the All-Star team last year. Also, from a purely box office/marketing standpoint he was a splashy new addition and not starting at the jump would have diminished that. Besides, Horford is a 37 year-old who can't play extended minutes anymore. The only reason the team danced around the issue for so long is due to him being a stubborn and prideful vet who didn't want to concede the spot so easily. I really don't think there was an actual debate over this internally after they got Jrue, it was just about figuring out how to break it to Al.
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. Doubt many will read all of both our posts. I agree with you that Jrue Holiday is a great addition, an upgrade over Smart who I really like also. It is all about how he is used. In the last two games, White and Holiday were on the court together for 53 minutes so average about 26 minutes each game. So if you assume they each play about 30-32 min per game (they have both been playing more like 34-35 per game) that only leaves 5-6 min each that one of them is on the court and leaves about 12 minutes that neither is on the court. To date, they have both been out of the game only 10 minutes but the team is -1 in that time.
You can still start them, you can still close with them (if you want), but you don't need to have them both on the court that much of the time. I think the best teams are the ones that are able to put their best players in the best position to do what they do best. What White and Holiday do best is very similar so when they are on the court together, one of them has to do less of what they do best and do some other things (like trying to defend a PF).
Holiday and White 16 min
Holiday no White 16 min
White no Holiday 16 min
That rotation would cover all 48 minutes and allow them to play together for say 5 min to start the game (to satisfy the politics), 5 min to start the 2nd half, and 6 min to close the game (if that is what you consider the best line up). Another way to look at it, Dennis Johnson and Danny Ainge played very well together because they did different things. But if it was Dennis Johnson and Don Chaney, even though Don Chaney is just as good as Ainge, the combination wouldn't be as good. Don Chaney played great with Jo Jo White. Same if it was Paul Westphal and Ainge.
It is not the end of the world in any case but consider the possible guard combinations:
White - Brown
Holiday - Brown
White - Holiday
Which is the best guard combination? Which is the worst? All are very good options, but some are better than the others. And if you have both Holiday and White in as guards, it forces Brown and Tatum away from their best positions. Tatum is the best SF in the league so you play him at PF? Don't want that so you ask Holiday to play PF? You just aren't going to get the best out of all your players if some of them are playing out of position.
