overcoming failure

[Never Nervous Pervis]

IT was scrutinized for his Brinks truck comments, but that's another thing. People know IT is tough as nails and is ready to die in war with you. I can't say the same with Kyrie. And judging this series, he's isn't.

How quickly people forget IT's first year in green, when he shot 33% from the field, 16.9% from 3, and averaged 3.5 turnovers a game as the Celtics got swept by the Cavs 4-0 in the first round of the playoffs. That was before IT bulked up and became face of the franchise. People also forget he wasn't even a starter around that time.

Find me a publication where they imply Magic quit?

Magic has quit on the Lakers at least four times, twice as a player (once when he announced he had HIV), once abruptly as a coach, and most recently as an exec.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-11-03-mn-1244-story.html

Again, people remember what they want to remember.

Well you can certainly find some where Kobe quit. There was the playoff game 7 where Kobe refused to shoot. He wanted to make a point and decided to submarine his own team's chances of winning. People conveniently forget all of the negative actions of former great players when trying to demonize Kyrie and act as if he should never see the court again. Players come back from bad performances all the time. I suspect Ainge (being a former player) understands that well.

Totally! Even Paul Pierce was demonized in 2004-2005 after getting ejected at the end of a close playoff game in Indiana for pushing Jamaal Tinsley, then proceeded to take off his jersey and swing it around while walking off the court.  Afterward he showed up at the postgame press conference sarcastically wearing a bandage on his face (Pierce's lowest point in green), and fans/media were ready to ship him out of town.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=yroYIQiAQyI

Keyword: Ejected. Kyrie was neither ejected or injured. It was a heat of the moment. I will applaud Kyrie if he actually shown that kind of emotion in a playoff game. Paul showed immaturity, no doubt. But he have shown emotions. That's a different type of quitting. Even then, they forced the Pacers into game 7. Effort is still there.

Kobe forced a game 7 against the heavily favored Suns too. That itself was effort. Now if you told me otherwise, I don't know what to tell you. You're just gonna nitpick single games as a small sample anyway, not the entire series or season.

Using Magic quitting with HIV and as an executive as an argument, really? We are talking about playing perspective. What's next? Larry Bird quit because his back gave up or because he lost Paul George as a GM? LOL

As for IT, no one was expecting anything from him around that time. And no, he didn't quit. The team was simply out talented and outmatched. He wasn't even a starter at that time. Did you actually watched that series? 3 out for the 4 games were decided by single digits despite the sweep.

Watch how animated IT was in that series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16Z4PkYBBcM

His stats may have sucked, but he's there ready to defend his teammate.

You cannot really tell me that the Bucks were more talented than the Celtics. Better coached? Yeah. More talented individually? That's debatable. Outside Giannis and Middleton, the Celtics are more well rounded. That's like telling me George Hill and Pat Connaughton are more talented than Kyrie and Tatum.

The topic of this thread is overcoming adversity and not overreacting to one playoff loss, when there's a long history of title teams coming back from disappointing seasons.

You chose to focus on quitting, and challenged me to produce an example of Magic quitting.  So I pointed out his long history of quitting on the Lakers, using the literal definition of the word. I also earlier mentioned that he had some attitude problems early in his career, when he got his coach fired. Somehow that's absurd to you.

Now you've moved the goalpost further to criticize Kyrie by saying he doesn't show enough emotion, cherry-picking random youtube clips as if that's the definitive statement on his heart.

Is this enough emotion and heart for you?  https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/kyrie-irving-hits-deep-three-and-pops-jersey

[mr. dee]

IT was scrutinized for his Brinks truck comments, but that's another thing. People know IT is tough as nails and is ready to die in war with you. I can't say the same with Kyrie. And judging this series, he's isn't.

How quickly people forget IT's first year in green, when he shot 33% from the field, 16.9% from 3, and averaged 3.5 turnovers a game as the Celtics got swept by the Cavs 4-0 in the first round of the playoffs. That was before IT bulked up and became face of the franchise. People also forget he wasn't even a starter around that time.

Find me a publication where they imply Magic quit?

Magic has quit on the Lakers at least four times, twice as a player (once when he announced he had HIV), once abruptly as a coach, and most recently as an exec.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-11-03-mn-1244-story.html

Again, people remember what they want to remember.

Well you can certainly find some where Kobe quit. There was the playoff game 7 where Kobe refused to shoot. He wanted to make a point and decided to submarine his own team's chances of winning. People conveniently forget all of the negative actions of former great players when trying to demonize Kyrie and act as if he should never see the court again. Players come back from bad performances all the time. I suspect Ainge (being a former player) understands that well.

Totally! Even Paul Pierce was demonized in 2004-2005 after getting ejected at the end of a close playoff game in Indiana for pushing Jamaal Tinsley, then proceeded to take off his jersey and swing it around while walking off the court.  Afterward he showed up at the postgame press conference sarcastically wearing a bandage on his face (Pierce's lowest point in green), and fans/media were ready to ship him out of town.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=yroYIQiAQyI

Keyword: Ejected. Kyrie was neither ejected or injured. It was a heat of the moment. I will applaud Kyrie if he actually shown that kind of emotion in a playoff game. Paul showed immaturity, no doubt. But he have shown emotions. That's a different type of quitting. Even then, they forced the Pacers into game 7. Effort is still there.

Kobe forced a game 7 against the heavily favored Suns too. That itself was effort. Now if you told me otherwise, I don't know what to tell you. You're just gonna nitpick single games as a small sample anyway, not the entire series or season.

Using Magic quitting with HIV and as an executive as an argument, really? We are talking about playing perspective. What's next? Larry Bird quit because his back gave up or because he lost Paul George as a GM? LOL

As for IT, no one was expecting anything from him around that time. And no, he didn't quit. The team was simply out talented and outmatched. He wasn't even a starter at that time. Did you actually watched that series? 3 out for the 4 games were decided by single digits despite the sweep.

Watch how animated IT was in that series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16Z4PkYBBcM

His stats may have sucked, but he's there ready to defend his teammate.

You cannot really tell me that the Bucks were more talented than the Celtics. Better coached? Yeah. More talented individually? That's debatable. Outside Giannis and Middleton, the Celtics are more well rounded. That's like telling me George Hill and Pat Connaughton are more talented than Kyrie and Tatum.

The topic of this thread is overcoming adversity and not overreacting to one playoff loss, when there's a long history of championship teams coming back from disappointing losses the following year (or in subsequent years) and being successful.

You chose to focus on quitting, and challenged me to produce an example of Magic quitting.  So I pointed out his long history of quitting on the Lakers, using the literal definition of the word. I also earlier mentioned that he had some attitude problems early in his career, when he got his coach fired. Somehow that's absurd to you.

Now you've moved the goalpost further to criticize Kyrie by saying he doesn't show enough emotion, cherry-picking random youtube clips as if that's the definitive statement on his heart.

Is this enough emotion and heart for you?  https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/kyrie-irving-hits-deep-three-and-pops-jersey

Using regular season as a measurement. Well played. I made it clear with my post about "Showing emotion in the playoffs" but you chose to ignore the playoff part. Do you think I don't know about that KG-impression of Jersey popping? It would be actually cool if he showed that in an elimination playoff game or games prior that. He's terrible even in the Indiana series. Outside game 3, he's shooting around 35%. If he's injured, I would have understand but that's not a small sample size.

I challenged you to find a post about Magic, the player, quitting in a playoff series not as a GM or quitting his career. You didn't post anything significant. You either posted about choking and quitting in a different matter which is not what exactly I'm looking for. Did Curry also booted out Mark Jackson as a head coach? Or Larry Bird booted out Bill Fitch for that matter?

This topic is overcoming adversity. But how can you overcome it if you head in into war hanging your head-up before it even started? Kyrie's performance in the playoffs is like "What if Mark Blount turned into superstar"

[tstorey_97]

Failure has to bother you to overcome it, not sure that is the case as much with the modern NBA athlete.

I'm so old I remember when playoff bonus checks were such a big deal. Guys would kill for the extra $25,000 (Inflation adjust $75,000)

Now it's different, Nike needs you to be a winner...it's just not about food and shelter.

Bob Gibson was pitching to kill the batter.
Bill Russell's life itself was a fight.
Dave Cowens wanted it more than anyone.
Larry Bird knew he was going to beat you. He created the reality in his head and then did it.
Michael Jordan was a combo of the above.

Now everybody is just a member of the millionaire's club.
"See ya after the game at the club."

[Never Nervous Pervis]

IT was scrutinized for his Brinks truck comments, but that's another thing. People know IT is tough as nails and is ready to die in war with you. I can't say the same with Kyrie. And judging this series, he's isn't.

How quickly people forget IT's first year in green, when he shot 33% from the field, 16.9% from 3, and averaged 3.5 turnovers a game as the Celtics got swept by the Cavs 4-0 in the first round of the playoffs. That was before IT bulked up and became face of the franchise. People also forget he wasn't even a starter around that time.

Find me a publication where they imply Magic quit?

Magic has quit on the Lakers at least four times, twice as a player (once when he announced he had HIV), once abruptly as a coach, and most recently as an exec.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-11-03-mn-1244-story.html

Again, people remember what they want to remember.

Well you can certainly find some where Kobe quit. There was the playoff game 7 where Kobe refused to shoot. He wanted to make a point and decided to submarine his own team's chances of winning. People conveniently forget all of the negative actions of former great players when trying to demonize Kyrie and act as if he should never see the court again. Players come back from bad performances all the time. I suspect Ainge (being a former player) understands that well.

Totally! Even Paul Pierce was demonized in 2004-2005 after getting ejected at the end of a close playoff game in Indiana for pushing Jamaal Tinsley, then proceeded to take off his jersey and swing it around while walking off the court.  Afterward he showed up at the postgame press conference sarcastically wearing a bandage on his face (Pierce's lowest point in green), and fans/media were ready to ship him out of town.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=yroYIQiAQyI

Keyword: Ejected. Kyrie was neither ejected or injured. It was a heat of the moment. I will applaud Kyrie if he actually shown that kind of emotion in a playoff game. Paul showed immaturity, no doubt. But he have shown emotions. That's a different type of quitting. Even then, they forced the Pacers into game 7. Effort is still there.

Kobe forced a game 7 against the heavily favored Suns too. That itself was effort. Now if you told me otherwise, I don't know what to tell you. You're just gonna nitpick single games as a small sample anyway, not the entire series or season.

Using Magic quitting with HIV and as an executive as an argument, really? We are talking about playing perspective. What's next? Larry Bird quit because his back gave up or because he lost Paul George as a GM? LOL

As for IT, no one was expecting anything from him around that time. And no, he didn't quit. The team was simply out talented and outmatched. He wasn't even a starter at that time. Did you actually watched that series? 3 out for the 4 games were decided by single digits despite the sweep.

Watch how animated IT was in that series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16Z4PkYBBcM

His stats may have sucked, but he's there ready to defend his teammate.

You cannot really tell me that the Bucks were more talented than the Celtics. Better coached? Yeah. More talented individually? That's debatable. Outside Giannis and Middleton, the Celtics are more well rounded. That's like telling me George Hill and Pat Connaughton are more talented than Kyrie and Tatum.

The topic of this thread is overcoming adversity and not overreacting to one playoff loss, when there's a long history of championship teams coming back from disappointing losses the following year (or in subsequent years) and being successful.

You chose to focus on quitting, and challenged me to produce an example of Magic quitting.  So I pointed out his long history of quitting on the Lakers, using the literal definition of the word. I also earlier mentioned that he had some attitude problems early in his career, when he got his coach fired. Somehow that's absurd to you.

Now you've moved the goalpost further to criticize Kyrie by saying he doesn't show enough emotion, cherry-picking random youtube clips as if that's the definitive statement on his heart.

Is this enough emotion and heart for you?  https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/kyrie-irving-hits-deep-three-and-pops-jersey

Using regular season as a measurement. Well played. I made it clear with my post about "Showing emotion in the playoffs" but you chose to ignore the playoff part. Do you think I don't know about that KG-impression of Jersey popping? It would be actually cool if he showed that in an elimination playoff game or games prior that. He's terrible even in the Indiana series. Outside game 3, he's shooting around 35%. If he's injured, I would have understand but that's not a small sample size.

I challenged you to find a post about Magic, the player, quitting in a playoff series not as a GM or quitting his career. You didn't post anything significant. You either posted about choking and quitting in a different matter which is not what exactly I'm looking for. Did Curry also booted out Mark Jackson as a head coach? Or Larry Bird booted out Bill Fitch for that matter?

This topic is overcoming adversity. But how can you overcome it if you head in into war hanging your head-up before it even started? Kyrie's performance in the playoffs is like "What if Mark Blount turned into superstar"

I love that you're conveniently ignoring 3 finals appearances, 1 championship and 1 of the most clutch shots in NBA playoff history, to focus on 4 losses against a superior Bucks team when everyone played bad.

Just a reminder that going into the Bucks series, Kyrie Irving was one of best playoff performers in NBA history, with the highest playoff winning percentage in NBA history.

https://weei.radio.com/blogs/alex-reimer/kyrie-irvings-playoff-stats-are-some-best-nba-history

Not only that, you're using the Pacers series to justify this irrational critique, a series the Celtics swept and which Irving averaged 22.5 ppg with 7.8 assists (and scored 37 in game 2).

And to take things to a really strange place, you've now made this bizarre comparison to Mark Blount.

Finally, no, Steph Curry didn't get Mark Jackson fired. In fact, Curry was Jackson's strongest supporter, and expressed shock when he was let go.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/11002396/stephen-curry-golden-state-warriors-disagrees-mark-jackson-firing

Curry had been the strongest supporter of Jackson before the Warriors dismissed the coach May 6 after a 51-win season and back-to-back playoff appearances.

Along those same lines, no, Larry Bird absolutely didn't have Bill Fitch fired. He thought highly of Fitch, and defended him after their playoff loss to the Bucks.

https://www.nytimes.com/1983/05/28/sports/fitch-in-surprise-quits-the-celtics.html

Bird was one of the few Celtic players to defend Fitch after the Bucks' sweep. Bob Woolf, Bird's agent, said that Bird thought highly of Fitch.

On the other hand, Magic demanded a trade in order to get Westhead fired from a team that had just won a championship, and had a winning record. Understand the difference?

https://www.si.com/vault/1981/11/30/826173/dont-blame-me-i-just-want-to-have-fun-the-lakers-were-winning-but-magic-johnson-and-the-owner-were-not-enjoying-it-solution-can-the-coach

[mr. dee]

Not only that, you're using the Pacers series to justify this irrational critique, a series the Celtics swept and which Irving averaged 22.5 ppg with 7.8 assists (and scored 37 in game 2).

Proof that you don't need Kyrie to be the focal point. He can shoot poorly and C's can still win as long as they play within the game plan.. In Game 2 where he scored 37, he shot 57%. But look at the rest of the series Game 1 = 14 pts (6/17 shooting, 35&), Game 3 = 19 pts (7/19 shooting, 37%), Game 4 (4/13 shooting, 31%)

Are you really bragging about averaging 20+ pts with poor efficiency?



Context matters. Who Kyrie's team were exactly playing? A hobbled IT-less Celtics, the annual underachieving Raptors?

I love that you're conveniently ignoring 3 finals appearances, 1 championship and 1 of the most clutch shots in NBA playoff history, to focus on 4 losses against a superior Bucks team when everyone played bad.

Robert Horry have 7 rings. Plus, he himself have game winning heroics.

And to take things to a really strange place, you've now made this bizarre comparison to Mark Blount.

Not really. I'm comparing their effort, not their style of play or talent gap.

On the other hand, Magic demanded a trade in order to get Westhead fired from a team that had just won a championship, and had a winning record. Understand the difference?

You also forgot that Magic is already 2x Finals MVP, took over the finals when Kareem went down in the 1980 finals and won. He have the some rights to call shots at a certain level . Westhead forcing to run the offense through Kareem when its clear that his game is declining alarmed the Laker front office.

Kyrie have only proven he is a sidekick, not the main guy but forced the issue. Brad gave him the keys to run the team the way he wants. How did it turned out?

[mr. dee]

 

only that, you're using the Pacers series to justify this irrational critique, a series the Celtics swept and which Irving averaged 22.5 ppg with 7.8 assists (and scored 37 in game 2).

Proof that you don't need Kyrie to be the focal point. He can shoot poorly and C's can still win as long as they play within the game plan.. In Game 2 where he scored 37, he shot 57%. But look at the rest of the series Game 1 = 14 pts (6/17 shooting, 35&), Game 3 = 19 pts (7/19 shooting, 37%), Game 4 (4/13 shooting, 31%)

Are you really bragging about averaging 20+ pts with poor efficiency?

Just a reminder that going into the Bucks series, Kyrie Irving was one of best playoff performers in NBA history, with the highest playoff winning percentage in NBA history.

Context matters. Who Kyrie's team were exactly playing? A hobbled IT-less Celtics, the annual underachieving Raptors?

I love that you're conveniently ignoring 3 finals appearances, 1 championship and 1 of the most clutch shots in NBA playoff history, to focus on 4 losses against a superior Bucks team when everyone played bad.

Robert Horry have 7 rings. Plus, he himself have game winning heroics. I'm not blaming this on Kyrie alone. But he's the major part of it. How many shots did he take? How many passed did he missed and how many times George Hill blew him by?

And to take things to a really strange place, you've now made this bizarre comparison to Mark Blount.

Not really. I'm comparing their effort, not their style of play or talent gap.

On the other hand, Magic demanded a trade in order to get Westhead fired from a team that had just won a championship, and had a winning record. Understand the difference?

You also forgot that Magic is already 2x Finals MVP, took over the finals when Kareem went down in the 1980 finals and won. He have the some rights to call shots at a certain level . Westhead forcing to run the offense through Kareem when its clear that his game is declining alarmed the Laker front office.

Kyrie have only proven he is a sidekick, not the main guy but forced the issue. Brad gave him the keys to run the team the way he wants. How did it turned out?

[Never Nervous Pervis]

Proof that you don't need Kyrie to be the focal point. He can shoot poorly and C's can still win as long as they play within the game plan.. In Game 2 where he scored 37, he shot 57%. But look at the rest of the series Game 1 = 14 pts (6/17 shooting, 35&), Game 3 = 19 pts (7/19 shooting, 37%), Game 4 (4/13 shooting, 31%)

Was the Warriors defeat of Houston proof that they don't need Durant to be the focal point of their offense moving forward?

Are you really bragging about averaging 20+ pts with poor efficiency?

Allen Iverson/Kobe had plenty of 20+ point games in the playoffs with less than stellar shooting percentages, are they not hall of famers? Are they lacking heart and emotion?

Just a reminder that going into the Bucks series, Kyrie Irving was one of best playoff performers in NBA history, with the highest playoff winning percentage in NBA history.

Context matters. Who Kyrie's team were exactly playing? A hobbled IT-less Celtics, the annual underachieving Raptors?

No, he played 3 times against the Golden State Warriors, one of the all-time best teams in NBA history. He also outplayed Stephen Curry, the reigning MVP at the time, multiple times. And IT was hobbled for one series, one year. Why are you ignoring the larger body of work to focus on small samples sizes?

I love that you're conveniently ignoring 3 finals appearances, 1 championship and 1 of the most clutch shots in NBA playoff history, to focus on 4 losses against a superior Bucks team when everyone played bad.

Robert Horry have 7 rings. Plus, he himself have game winning heroics. I'm not blaming this on Kyrie alone. But he's the major part of it. How many shots did he take? How many passed did he missed and how many times George Hill blew him by?

Robert Horry was a clutch role player, Kyrie is a star who put up superstar numbers on a team he co-led to the NBA championship (and three trips to the finals). Are you really trying to make points with these false analogies?

On the other hand, Magic demanded a trade in order to get Westhead fired from a team that had just won a championship, and had a winning record. Understand the difference?

You also forgot that Magic is already 2x Finals MVP, took over the finals when Kareem went down in the 1980 finals and won. He have the some rights to call shots at a certain level . Westhead forcing to run the offense through Kareem when its clear that his game is declining alarmed the Laker front office.

Wrong. Magic forced the Lakers hand in his second year in the league, so he only had one title at the time. And the issue wasn't running the offense through Kareem, or that Kareem's game was declining, it was the slow pace they played at, and the fact that Westhead got mad at Magic for refusing to run plays he called and Magic ran to the owner he partied with off the clock to demand he get rid of the coach.

It turned out to be a good move because the Lakers thrived under Pat Riley but it's still indicative of a moody, immature player, one who grew as a leader over time and after multiple failures.

Hence the point of this entire thread. Thanks for helping make the case.

[mr. dee]

Proof that you don't need Kyrie to be the focal point. He can shoot poorly and C's can still win as long as they play within the game plan.. In Game 2 where he scored 37, he shot 57%. But look at the rest of the series Game 1 = 14 pts (6/17 shooting, 35&), Game 3 = 19 pts (7/19 shooting, 37%), Game 4 (4/13 shooting, 31%)

Was the Warriors defeat of Houston proof that they don't need Durant to be the focal point of their offense moving forward?

Are you really bragging about averaging 20+ pts with poor efficiency?

Allen Iverson/Kobe had plenty of 20+ point games in the playoffs with less than stellar shooting percentages, are they not hall of famers? Are they lacking heart and emotion?

Again, Kobe played elite defense, grabbing rebounds and passing when his shots are not falling. AI, for all his immaturities proven that he can take a beating and take his team to the Finals.

Just a reminder that going into the Bucks series, Kyrie Irving was one of best playoff performers in NBA history, with the highest playoff winning percentage in NBA history.

Context matters. Who Kyrie's team were exactly playing? A hobbled IT-less Celtics, the annual underachieving Raptors?

No, he played 3 times against the Golden State Warriors, one of the all-time best teams in NBA history. He also outplayed Stephen Curry, the reigning MVP at the time, multiple times. And IT was hobbled for one series. Why are you ignoring the larger body of work to focus on small samples sizes?

I love that you're conveniently ignoring 3 finals appearances, 1 championship and 1 of the most clutch shots in NBA playoff history, to focus on 4 losses against a superior Bucks team when everyone played bad.

Robert Horry have 7 rings. Plus, he himself have game winning heroics. I'm not blaming this on Kyrie alone. But he's the major part of it. How many shots did he take? How many passed did he missed and how many times George Hill blew him by?

Robert Horry was a clutch role player, Kyrie is a star who put up superstar numbers on a team he co-led to the NBA championship (and three trips to the finals). Are you really trying to make points with these false analogies?

On the other hand, Magic demanded a trade in order to get Westhead fired from a team that had just won a championship, and had a winning record. Understand the difference?

You also forgot that Magic is already 2x Finals MVP, took over the finals when Kareem went down in the 1980 finals and won. He have the some rights to call shots at a certain level . Westhead forcing to run the offense through Kareem when its clear that his game is declining alarmed the Laker front office.

Wrong. Magic forced the Lakers hand in his second year in the league, so he only had one title at the time. And the issue wasn't running the offense through Kareem, or that Kareem's game was declining, it was the slow pace they played at, and the fact that Westhead got mad at Magic for refusing to run plays he called and Magic ran to the owner he partied with off the clock to demand he get rid of the coach.

It turned out to be a good move because the Lakers thrived under Pat Riley but it's still indicative of a moody, immature player, one who grew as a leader over time and after multiple failures.

Hence the point of this entire thread. Thanks for helping make the case.

Again, Kobe is playing elite defense, grabbing rebounds and passing when his shots are falling. When did Kyrie made the All-Defensive team selection, let alone 12 times?

AI, for all his immaturity have all heart. You see him drive to the basket despite being beat up badly.  AI as the focal point took his team to the Finals where as Kyrie can't even make the playoffs without riding Lebron. Kyrie iso can only take you so far. And Lebron himself is also a quitter despite that generational talent he possess.

Magic may have only won 1 Finals MVP but it still doesn't diminish my point. The slow pace fits Kareem's post game more than Magic's fast break style. It's kinda like how Pops run the Spurs offense through Duncan post-ups. Kareem was still a very good player, but you cannot deny that his skills are declining as the first option. Let's not forget he's 30+ at that stage of his career.

Immature =/= quitting. Immature could be many things. Just look at the Jail Blazers. They are a very competitive and talented team that mesh well on the court. But outside it is another issue.

Some people just either have it or not. Carmelo never matured, Marbury never matured, Westbrook may never mature and even if he did it could be too late.

[Never Nervous Pervis]

Again, Kobe is playing elite defense, grabbing rebounds and passing when his shots are falling. When did Kyrie made the All-Defensive team selection, let alone 12 times?

Ive never heard anyone praise Kobe's passing with a straight face before. Regardless, do you remember the time he went AWOL in game 7 of the 2006 playoffs against the Suns and refused to shoot in the 4th quarter because critics called him selfish and a ball hog? I guess he was a quitter with no heart, too, based on your definition.

https://www.complex.com/sports/2014/05/kobe-bryant-awol-game-7-against-suns

AI, for all his immaturity have all heart. You see him drive to the basket despite being beat up badly.  AI as the focal point took his team to the Finals where as Kyrie can't even make the playoffs without riding Lebron.

You do realize that Iverson not only quit on the Sixers at the end of his Philly run, but he also quit on the Pistons and Memphis Grizzlies because he refused to come off the bench. I mention this because you keep using that same logic to condemn Kyrie, although there's literally no evidence he ever quit on anything except for a poor shooting % over a small sample size?

...Kyrie can't even make the playoffs without riding Lebron.

You realize Kyrie made the playoffs this year without Lebron, and last year, too.

And if being a second star on a team that goes to the finals multiple times somehow invalidates your credentials, I guess Paul Pierce couldn't make the playoffs without riding KG, since the year before KG's arrival the Celtics had the worst record in the NBA.

[mr. dee]

Ive never heard anyone praise Kobe's passing with a straight face before. Regardless, do you remember the time he went AWOL in game 7 of the 2006 playoffs against the Suns and refused to shoot in the 4th quarter because critics called him selfish and a ball hog? I guess he was a quitter with no heart, too, based on your definition.

Did you watched the Blazers series? I guess Lillard did quit too by your standards. You can't even make a counter argument that Kyrie doesn't play defense. Kobe did play defense, something that Kyrie didn't even bother try to do. Defense is all about effort. I guess you're just gonna ignore defense and push your narrative that Kobe just quit.

You do realize that Iverson not only quit on the Sixers at the end of his Philly run, but he also quit on the Pistons and Memphis Grizzlies because he refused to come off the bench. I mention this because you keep using that same logic to condemn Kyrie, although there's literally no evidence he ever quit on anything except for a poor shooting % over a small sample size?

Not even bothering playing defense or making plays for his teammates is a definition of quitting. Iso ball would have been work if the offense solely relies on him but no. Brad Steven's basketball is about pace and space. I thought he did a pretty good job last year deferring to his teammates but he somehow reverted back to his Cavs days habits.

Are you really gonna blame AI in his stint on MEM and DET when it's clear that he's a role player at that point? LOL. Immaturity and quitting on an actual game are two different things. AI for all his selfishness and immaturity, sacrificed his body taking hard contacts among towering defenders. Kyrie played like he didn't want to get hurt. Leadership and maturity doesn't always go hand in hand.

Let's say I'm a working with great reputation in the office. But one day, I felt like I'm not enjoying the work anymore so I handed my formal resignation to the HR and finish my remaining job. Does that make me immature?

You realize Kyrie made the playoffs this year without Lebron, and last year, too.

And if being a second star on a team that goes to the finals multiple times somehow invalidates your credentials, I guess Paul Pierce couldn't make the playoffs without riding KG, since the year before KG's arrival the Celtics had the worst record in the NBA.

Wrong. Paul Pierce had proven that he can at least take his team to the playoffs with somewhat decent supporting cast. I guess you'll just ignore the 2002 run with Antoine Walker, Tony Delk, Tonie Battie and others that went to the ECF that year.


Again, I suggest you watch the game 7 of Nuggets/Blazers today. Lilliard is cold, shooting 3-17 from the field. What did he do? Defer to CJ McCollumn knowing he's the hot hand right now.  Not to mention that he grabbed 10 rebounds and recorded 3 steals. And they were down 15 at some point. That's leadership.

[Fierce1]

The main problem of the Celts is Ainge assembled a flawed team.

Too many players of the same kind.

But in fairness to Ainge, he was thinking of the bigger picture and that's how to acquire Anthony Davis.

I was furious that Ainge did nothing to improve the Celts this season.
But when it was clear Ainge was going all in on AD this summer, I understood that this season has to be sacrificed.

The Bucks just couldn't be stopped because they had an inside-outside game.
Giannis is just unstoppable.
I think the Bucks can win the championship this year.
What the Celts need to do is fight power with power.
If the Celts can't stop Giannis, the Bucks will also not be able to stop Anthony Davis.
Ainge needs to make the trade happen ASAP!