2013 Pick 2 Draft: How's my team look?

[Roy H.]

Teams have a right of first refusal on their keepers.  However, that wouldn't allow any team to go over a hard cap.

Interestingly, I'm not sure if it has been established that teams can use the right of first refusal on keepers they acquire in trade.

That's interesting, I guess I must have missed this part.  You're basically implying that whatever an individual team's specific salary cap number currently is, will be their number in perpetuity.  That's asinine.

If the real NBA allows teams to go over their cap to sign their own FA's, I see no reason we should be denied that same hypothetical right.

I think a fair compromise, for the purposes of this excercise would be to allow teams to exceed their cap in order to re-sign keepers (or keepers aquired in a trade involving other keepers, i.e. Kobe for DWill or Gortat for Lopez), and players that have contracts that run a minimum of three years (the period to establish full bird-rights), including the current season.

The budgetary numbers we used for this exercise are either equal to, or in some cases far exceed, the actual budgets for NBA franchises.  To suggest that teams would suddenly far exceed their budgets to retain free agents is what I find asinine, especially with such a hefty repeater tax about to set in in the NBA.

Under your proposed rule, every team in the NBA would be willing to go up to $35 million or so above the luxury tax.  That seems crazy to me.

I agree with Fafnir that in reality, a handful of teams would spend beyond the tax to field a contender.  However, more teams will never exceed the luxury tax at all, or will perhaps make a small, one-time expenditure beyond the line.

[KGs Knee]

Teams have a right of first refusal on their keepers.  However, that wouldn't allow any team to go over a hard cap.

Interestingly, I'm not sure if it has been established that teams can use the right of first refusal on keepers they acquire in trade.

That's interesting, I guess I must have missed this part.  You're basically implying that whatever an individual team's specific salary cap number currently is, will be their number in perpetuity.  That's asinine.

If the real NBA allows teams to go over their cap to sign their own FA's, I see no reason we should be denied that same hypothetical right.

I think a fair compromise, for the purposes of this excercise would be to allow teams to exceed their cap in order to re-sign keepers (or keepers aquired in a trade involving other keepers, i.e. Kobe for DWill or Gortat for Lopez), and players that have contracts that run a minimum of three years (the period to establish full bird-rights), including the current season.

The budgetary numbers we used for this exercise are either equal to, or in some cases far exceed, the actual budgets for NBA franchises.  To suggest that teams would suddenly far exceed their budgets to retain free agents is what I find asinine, especially with such a hefty repeater tax about to set in in the NBA.

Under your proposed rule, every team in the NBA would be willing to go up to $35 million or so above the luxury tax.  That seems crazy to me.

I agree with Fafnir that in reality, a handful of teams would spend beyond the tax to field a contender.  However, more teams will never exceed the luxury tax at all, or will perhaps make a small, one-time expenditure beyond the line.

I never suggested that teams "would" or "should" exceed the luxury tax.  Just that they should be "allowed to", just as they are in the real NBA.  The choice is up to the individual team, as to whether it is in their best interest to do so.

But I really don't want to get into a big debate about this.  I just disagree with the concept you have put forward.

[StartOrien]

Or we could talk about how BRILLIANT my self evaluation was and I could get like a lot of sorries

[wdleehi]

Teams have a right of first refusal on their keepers.  However, that wouldn't allow any team to go over a hard cap.

Interestingly, I'm not sure if it has been established that teams can use the right of first refusal on keepers they acquire in trade.

That's interesting, I guess I must have missed this part.  You're basically implying that whatever an individual team's specific salary cap number currently is, will be their number in perpetuity.  That's asinine.

If the real NBA allows teams to go over their cap to sign their own FA's, I see no reason we should be denied that same hypothetical right.

I think a fair compromise, for the purposes of this excercise would be to allow teams to exceed their cap in order to re-sign keepers (or keepers aquired in a trade involving other keepers, i.e. Kobe for DWill or Gortat for Lopez), and players that have contracts that run a minimum of three years (the period to establish full bird-rights), including the current season.

The budgetary numbers we used for this exercise are either equal to, or in some cases far exceed, the actual budgets for NBA franchises.  To suggest that teams would suddenly far exceed their budgets to retain free agents is what I find asinine, especially with such a hefty repeater tax about to set in in the NBA.

Under your proposed rule, every team in the NBA would be willing to go up to $35 million or so above the luxury tax.  That seems crazy to me.

I agree with Fafnir that in reality, a handful of teams would spend beyond the tax to field a contender.  However, more teams will never exceed the luxury tax at all, or will perhaps make a small, one-time expenditure beyond the line.

I never suggested that teams "would" or "should" exceed the luxury tax.  Just that they should be "allowed to", just as they are in the real NBA.  The choice is up to the individual team, as to whether it is in their best interest to do so.

But I really don't want to get into a big debate about this.  I just disagree with the concept you have put forward.

Sure.  We can just set up a paypal account so we can pay the actual tax.   




That's the problem, no one here is actually facing a tax.  We are just facing the "I don't think your team will go over the cap" with responses like "I have deeper pockets that the real owners because my company has invented the device that has made the iphone obsolete" 

[indeedproceed]

IP's Thoughts On The Pick 2 Celtics:

PG: Jeremy Lin/Tyshawn Taylor
SG: Jason Kidd/JR Smith/Alan Anderson
SF: Shane Battier/Jared Dudley/Alan Anderson
PF: Kevin Garnett/Epke Udoh/Shard Lewis
C: Tim Duncan/Chris Caveman

First, am I missing someone or do you only have 12 players? Second, yeah, I used the lineup I like better. Deal with it.

I Love: Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan. What else is there to say? They've both lost a step, that'll happen when you've been making all-star games for longer than Cheers was on television. But even without said 'step', for around 30 minutes a night they are 2 of the top 5 big men in the NBA. They're 2 of the top 3 big man defenders in the NBA. They're both of the top 2 skilled bigs in the league. They are awesome, still. Great leaders, great players, older than crap, but still awesome. Not sure where else to go with this.

I also love JR Smith and Jared Dudley coming off the bench. Arguably, they are the most consistent perimeter scorers on the team, and putting them in against a second unit will be a huge boon for the Celtics, as it keeps the pressure off the starters to do all the heavy lifting.

I like: A Lin/Kidd backcourt. Of course Jason Kidd can't do much but make smart passes and drill 3's, but he doesn't really need to here. Considering that the rest of the starting unit is populated by Battier/Duncan/Garnett, there will be 3 3pt shooters, and 5 midrange shooters on the floor at all times. Couple that with Kidd's floor spacing, and Lin will be allowed to do what he does best, use his dribble and the pick and roll to penetrate and dish. Kidd just has to make smart entry and swing passes, and hit open shots. I also like Alan Anderson, Ekpe Udoh, and Chris Kaman off the bench. I'd be reluctant to start them, and Kaman is not a guy I've ever felt great about giving minutes, but as a second unit? You could do so much worse.

I'm Neutral On: Tyshawn Taylor, don't know a thing about him. He's a guard huh?

I Hate: Shard Lewis being on this team. Don't think he even deserves a NBA roster spot, and I don't see a reason why he needs to be out there. If you needed a sniper, there were others, if you needed a stretch big, give a guy like Anthony Tolliver a shot. Boo shard Lewis.

Actual Success: The two big boys won't be a go every night. When they are a go, they'll be on managed minutes. This is a limiting factor, no matter how sane or insane JR Smith is. A middle-seed team, nightmare playoff opponent, one I'd pick as a darkhorse to get to the conference finals.

Pick Two Success: StartOrien knew he was in trouble as soon as he picked the Celtics. He was originally planning to build around Bradley and Garnett, but with his low draft spot and varying player opinions on Bradley, he quickly had to change his strategy. In the end, he took a regrettable situation into a mid-00's fever dream, and assembled a team that would be easy to root for. Talent, character, pedigree, its got the total package. And, I imagine its better than 4 games above .500, so he also improved on the real life Celtics. Bully.


Previous IP's Thoughts:
Thunder
Suns
Bucks

Also, I'll be at the laugh factory on Sunset Tuesday through Thursday, and I'll be hosting my one-man show "Tell Mee-Maw I'm Sorry I'm Not Sorry" at the Perch Tree Amphitheater on Sunday, March 10th and Thursday, September 19th. Goodnight everybody.

[StartOrien]

Thanks for the write up, IP.

I actually did think about Anthony Tolliver but his 3 pt shooting has been abysmal over the last two seasons - .300 this year and .248 the season before.

Might be a bit TOO what have you done for me lately but Shard's shooting .430 from behind the stripe.

[Who]

Where would you rate Nash amongst PGs nowadays?

Is he still a top ten PG? Top 15? Lower?

[KGs Knee]

Initial, off-the-top-of-my-head reaction about Nash would be, still top 15 but barely.

I think he's finally reached the point where his defensive failings are no longer outweighed by his offensive brilliance.  It's hard to judge though, as he and Kobe are a bad fit.  Nash isn't allowed to do what he does best nearly enough, and his lack of defense puts Kobe in a tough spot.  Kobe basically is forced to guard the best perimeter player on the opposition every night, and has too expend to much energy to do so.

Maybe in a different situation Nash would be closer to where he was last year, though.  Nash needs to play in an up-tempo offense, predicated on PnR primarily in the half-court.  He'd probably be great in Houston, where they don't seem to care a lick about defense.

[StartOrien]

Where would you rate Nash amongst PGs nowadays?

Is he still a top ten PG? Top 15? Lower?

It's really tough to say. He's looked pretty good as of late and reminding you how hard it can be to stop him in the pick and roll. But it's a pretty brief window, and his defense is of course abysmal (though I've always been of the opinion that you can live w/ a poor defensive point guard).

On my spreadsheet I had him at 17. But that factored in his age, and a lot of very friendly contracts in front of him. I've got 7 guys unquestionably above him, and 6-9 guys around where he's at. Kind of depends on what you need in your point guard at that point.

[jgod213]

Maybe in a different situation Nash would be closer to where he was last year, though.  Nash needs to play in an up-tempo offense, predicated on PnR primarily in the half-court.  He'd probably be great in Houston, where they don't seem to care a lick about defense.

LA kinda seems like the worst possible fit for Nash right now, at least with Gasol out.  Playing with a one-dimentional offensive big and a SG who wants to run the offense himself isn't much of a recipe for success with Steve Nash.

HOWEVAH, The Pick2Pacers would cater specifically to Nash's talents.  A P&R game between Nash and West would be brilliant.  Add to that a couple of terrific floor-spacers in Afflalo/Prince and you've got yourself a fluent half-court offense.  Sure Nash is still a defensive liability, but surround him with those guys mentioned along with Roy Hibbert, who is quietly having a terrific defensive season, you've got yourself enough help to somewhat mitigate the Nash defensive issue.

A team that i think would preform similar to the pick-2 Celtics.  Mid-level seed with the ability to make a push into the later playoff rounds.

[Fafnir]

I'm not sure how good Nash can be, so much of this year has been him playing off the ball compared to what he's used to doing.

I do think 10-15 is a more likely number than 5-10.

[sofutomygaha]

I managed to get several of my target players, but ultimately I think this draft was a swing and a miss for me:

SEATTLE SUPERSONICS
1. Rajon Rondo (11), John Lucas III (1.5)
2. Tyreke Evans (5.2), Francisco Garcia (6.1)
3. Ersan Ilvasova (7.9), Steve Novak(4.3), Jonas Jerebko(4.5)
4. Kenneth Faried (1.3), Amir Johnson (6), Andrew Nicholson(1.4)
5. Anderson Varejao (8.4), Kosta Koufos(3)

CAP REMAINING: $10

I avoided pursuing a go-to scorer early, instead I focussed on getting an energetic front-court and some top-notch role players. I quickly realized that building for this year with such a late team selection was a losing proposition- Rondo was the closest thing to a franchise player available at my draft slot.

STRATEGY
Manage cap well, get high-value contracts, build a deep, aggressive, high-energy team that will be scary in 2014.

WHAT WORKED
1. Turning a minus in to two big plusses. I traded Demarcus Cousins early on for Kenneth Faried and a pick that became Ersan Ilyasova. Perhaps not everyone will agree, but I think that this was a steal. I had Faried's 1.3 million contract in my top 20, and the Ilyasova-Faried-Varejao combination will make my team a nightmare on the glass. Cousins, on the other hand, is one of the biggest reasons why the Kings are terrible. I knew I had to keep him because of his perceived value, but trading him was my #1 priority.

2. Big value from injuries. Having decided to play for next year, I think that Varejao and Rondo were huge picks. My team will rebound and defend like crazy. I think that Rondo paired with bigs who hustle and finish will make for a seriously scary transition team... we've seen glimpses of this with Chris Wilcox. My team can push the ball like the Nuggets.

3. Good value on PFs I went with best-player-available a few times here and found myself with great PFs. Unfortunately, I didn't manage to trade one for a 2 or a 3, which is what I really needed. I hadn't expected wings to be so hard to come by.

WHAT DIDN'T WORK
1. No go-to scorer.I hoped that, with good cap management, I would be able to bleed Wade or another pricy (but true-value) superstar out of a team that had failed to manage their cap. I had no luck at this, though I did think celticpride07 was gonna have to do something big. The Robinson for Humphries trade was, in my opinion, the turning point of the draft, because we super-saver-sharks were really circling celticpride07 and I thought for sure someone would pry valuable player from him in exchange for cap room.

2. We can't shoot. The bench can shoot, and Novak is going to get a lot of minutes with the starters, but boy oh boy. I really needed a starting 2 or a 3 here that create his own shot or at least space the floor. I failed miserably to find a solution.

3. I really wanted Andre Kirilenko or Kawhi Leonard at the 3. Those were also two of what I considered to be the most valuable contracts in the game. I could not make the godfather offer, though I tried and tried.

4. Money left on the table I should have been in a position to overpay for a still-useful player late in the draft. I never really found the opportunity to do so.

[indeedproceed]

IP's Thoughts On The Hornets

G: Jarrett Jack ($5.4m), JJ Barea ($4.49m)
G: Eric Gordon ($13.67m), Jeff Taylor ($0.58m), Marquis Daniels ($0.85m)
F: L.Mbah a Moute ($4.8m), Chase Budinger ($0.89m), Jordan Hamilton ($1.12m)
F: Anthony Davis ($5.14m), Darrell Arthur ($3.01m), Donatas Motiejunas ($1.36m)
C: Amare Stoudemire ($19.95m), Enes Kanter ($4.32m)

I Love: Anthony Davis, fantastic prospect, recently starting to assert himself as the #1 rookie from 2012, can't really say enough great things about the guy. I love the overall tone of the roster, lots of a versatility, lots of different looks, capable role players. Aside from Davis, elite prospects in Kanter and Gordon, although more on him later. I'm also going to say I love Donatas Motiejunas. He started off the season very slowly, struggling to break the rotation. Turns out, Darryl Morey was just playing possum, inflating the value of his guys Patterson and Morris, because in their stead as the starting 4 during the last 3 games, Motie has been quite productive. He's not a perfect player, he looks a little soft, but he's been shooting 52% from the field, 40% from 3. Defense, rebounding would be huge concerns if he's a starter but as a prospect he looks great. Bright future.

I Like: Eric Gordon, I guess. His attitude and treatment of Hornets management is just...well concerning, I'll say. Gordon looks like he's going to be a player for a long time, but he is playing like hot stinky garbage this year, so my like is tempered with a fair amount of aversion.

I like most of the other surrounding parts though without condition. Jack is perfectly capable of running a team, and JJ Barea seems like an ideal backcourt reserve behind him (although a Ramon Sessions type would've worked as well). I love the Darrell Arthur pick, he's a difference maker on defense and is an ideal guy to pair with Amare Stoudemire. I like Budinger as a backup 3, I like Marquis Daniels in a reserve role.

I'm Neutral On: How the whole team fits together in practice, rather than theory. I like a lot of the players, but there are some issues. Eric Gordon has been atrocious this year. Amare Stoudemire is producing well for the moment, but he's playing big minutes against reserve units and would be asked to be a much more high-impact player here. Im also neutral on LRMAM.

I Hate: Nothing really. Eric Gordon kind of, but his potential is just so good, its not really worth getting upset about. Well constructed team.     

Actual Success: Not a lot. A team centered around an underrated point guard, Eric Gordon, a limited SF, Anthony Davis, and a perimeter oriented big (not Robin Lopez) already exists, and they're currently projected for around 30 wins this year. While I think there are some great steps forward here the biggest steps forward will be the maturation of Enes Kanter and Anthony Davis. Neither one will happen this season.

Pick 2 Success: Well, they're not playing Austin Rivers, they held on to Davis and Gordon while adding valuable long-term assets in Kanter and Motiejunas, I'd say there was significant improvement, even if it doesn't translate to wins immediately.


Previous IP's Thoughts:
Celtics
Thunder
Suns
Bucks

[KGs Knee]

3. I really wanted Andre Kirilenko or Kawhi Leonard at the 3. Those were also two of what I considered to be the most valuable contracts in the game. I could not make the godfather offer, though I tried and tried.

Can't recall you ever making me an offer for Kawhi either of the two seperate times he was in my possession.  I'm guessing it must have been when CP07 had him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of trades, I'm gonna try to defend myself here on a couple of trades I made that seemed to get lukewarm reactions.  Specifically, my two trades with CP07.

The first trade made, involved me sending out Kawhi Leonard and my 4.24 for Carlos Boozer and the 4.1.  This was immediately at the end of the 3rd round.  On the surface, I can see why many were calling this a "loss" on my behalf.  Boozer is admittedly wildly overpaid, and wasn't a going to be great fit with Lopez.  My reasoning was simply, I felt more confident in this formula: above replacement value PF + relpacement value SF > above replacement value SF + replacement value PF.  Also, I knew exactly who I was going to take with what was the next pick in the draft, and felt he likely wouldn't be available 12 picks later (Blatche).

Next, lets deal with the 2nd trade.  By this stage, I had two decent but not really starter material SF's, and, still had a bad fit in my starting front-court.  I realized Lopez and Boozer just wasn't going to work well enough.  So, after many days of holding out for the best deal, I agreed to part with Lopez (along with Dorell Wright and my 9.13/10.13) for Gortat/Leonard/Camby + 11.1.  This trade also recieved varying reactions, but seemed mostly positive on my behalf.  Honestly, in a vaccuum, I don't think I would do this deal, as Lopez was the only All-Star involved.  The thing was, it provided me was such a better fit in the front-court, got me Kawhi back, and below I'll explain the big picture of what really happened.

As I said above, the big picture really needs to be analyzed here.  Two trades were made.  When you look at the bottom line of the two deals here is what resulted.

I sent out, in total, Lopez/Wright/4.24/9.13/10.13.  In return I recieved Gortat/Boozer/Camby/4.1/11.1.  4.1 Became Andray Blatche.  Essentially, I traded Lopez and parts for 4/5th's of my front-court rotation.  I also got to keep Kawhi Leonard in the end, which was a huge bonus in my eyes.

[CelticConcourse]

More about the Hornet we can't stop writing about: Elias says Greivis Vasquez is one of only three players in NBA history to lead their team in assists (either outright or tied) in each of the first 60 games of the season. Jason Kidd did it with the Nets in 2001-02; John Stockton did it four times.

MIP, underrated, and a good first round pick!