NFL 2023 Season

[green_bballers13]

Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes. 82nd, 199th, and 10th picks in the draft.

The Patriots don't need to take a quarterback at 3. They just need to take the right quarterback, whenever that may be.

After seeing Purdy get to the Super Bowl, I think teams without quarterbacks should find 1-2 QBs every year to draft, even if they're in the 6th/7th rounds.

Drafting quarterbacks is not a science.

[Goldstar88]

I think Reid is a better coach than Belichick.

[celticsclay]

Now the question is....is Patrick Mahomes a system QB or a game manager? 

Is it all Andy Reid or is it all Pat Mahomes?

It must be the tight-pants young offensive coordinator.

Reid does have more diversity in his success but Belichick had success every single year for 20 years.  Now Reid has a generational QB and is winning back to back super bowls.  Reid traded his stud WR (Hill) and invested in the OL and the defense (at least the organization did, I assume Reid had a say in that).  Who does that sound like?

I think the argument is Bill didn't win without Brady basically at all.  3 playoff game without Brady.  A well under .500 record.  He won for 20 years because he had Brady and he has shown almost no ability to win without Brady.  Reid was able to be successful without Pat. Didn't reach the promised land, but plenty of wins, including plenty in the post season (and that SB appearance).

What is the argument? I think everyone knows that both Belichick and Brady helped win Super Bowls. Reid and Mahomes are helping to win Super Bowls.

I think its insane that people think that they can determine who won each Super Bowl. Is it 82.45% Mahomes, or 59.2% Reid? Who cares? Why does this matter? They have 3 Super Bowls. That is impressive. The same for the Patriots- they won 6 together. Why do we have to pretend that they didn't win those games together?

In this analytical world, I actually think we miss the point when we isolate individuals from team wins. Stating that its all Mahomes or Brady misses the forest for the trees.

I know society is divisive in many respects, but we don't have to divide everything. Some accomplishments can be won as teams, especially Super Bowls.

Yeah it’s kind of just how things are today. Everyone wants to say something controversial and it is probably extra exaggerated with belechick cause people want to kick him now that he is down cause he has a prickly personality. Look at the guy above trying to take a potshot and claim belechick would have benched kelce even though we have 20 years of data that he didn’t bench guys like gronk or Brady. It’s just silly, but you can write anything to get a reaction. The truth is Brady really was at best an average quarterback in their first Super Bowl. They won because of defense and special teams pretty clearly. This doesn’t fit the narrative people have so it is just glossed over. Same thing with the Super Bowl against the rams. When I read this stuff I just know the person is either posting in bad faith for an agenda or just didn’t really follow the team.

[Roy H.]

Yeah, it's silly to downplay BB's influence.  The Pats' defense was equally or more important than Brady in many of those Super Bowls.

[Moranis]

Now the question is....is Patrick Mahomes a system QB or a game manager? 

Is it all Andy Reid or is it all Pat Mahomes?

It must be the tight-pants young offensive coordinator.

Reid does have more diversity in his success but Belichick had success every single year for 20 years.  Now Reid has a generational QB and is winning back to back super bowls.  Reid traded his stud WR (Hill) and invested in the OL and the defense (at least the organization did, I assume Reid had a say in that).  Who does that sound like?

I think the argument is Bill didn't win without Brady basically at all.  3 playoff game without Brady.  A well under .500 record.  He won for 20 years because he had Brady and he has shown almost no ability to win without Brady.  Reid was able to be successful without Pat. Didn't reach the promised land, but plenty of wins, including plenty in the post season (and that SB appearance).

What is the argument? I think everyone knows that both Belichick and Brady helped win Super Bowls. Reid and Mahomes are helping to win Super Bowls.

I think its insane that people think that they can determine who won each Super Bowl. Is it 82.45% Mahomes, or 59.2% Reid? Who cares? Why does this matter? They have 3 Super Bowls. That is impressive. The same for the Patriots- they won 6 together. Why do we have to pretend that they didn't win those games together?

In this analytical world, I actually think we miss the point when we isolate individuals from team wins. Stating that its all Mahomes or Brady misses the forest for the trees.

I know society is divisive in many respects, but we don't have to divide everything. Some accomplishments can be won as teams, especially Super Bowls.

The discussion is comparing Reid to Belichick.  I think it matters a great deal to that discussion, how they did without a top 3 QB all time (which they've both now had). 

Without looking at random games, Bill has essentially coached 9 seasons without Brady

The 4 years in Cleveland he was 30-34.  0 division titles, 1 playoff season going 1-1 (and that was the only winning season). 

He had the 11-5 season with Cassell in which they didn't make the playoffs.

Then post-Brady, Bill went 29-38. 0 divisions titles, 1 playoff season going 0-1.   

So in those 9 seasons, Bill is 70-77, 0 division titles, 3 winning records, and 2 playoff appearances going 1-2. 

Now obviously Reid has way more seasons without Mahomes, as he had 5 in KC alone before Mahomes, going 53-27 with 2 division titles, 4 playoff seasons but going just 1-4.  In 14 years in Philly, he went 130-93-1, 6 division titles, and 10-9 in the playoffs including a SB appearance and 4 other CC games.  He hasn't had a losing season in KC and only had 3 in Philly.  Most of his Philly time he obviously had McNabb who was obviously a good QB, but he isn't a HOFer yet and probably won't be.  So sustained success and probably more success than a QB like McNabb should have.  He also went to the playoffs with Michael Vick (post-prison) and Alex Smith

[green_bballers13]

Mo, you are back to focusing on Bill without Brady. For what reason? The majority of Bill's career was with Brady. What is the point? It's like you're going into an art gallery and saying that a Rembrandt isn't as good as a Picasso, thus missing the entire point. They're all good.

How has Pop looked without Duncan or Kawhi? Should we change our opinion of Pop?

Is there someone that is banging on your door trying to convince you that BB is the greatest coach of all time? I'm not doing that, and I haven't seen others do so.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Nevermind

[Amonkey]

I think an argument can be made that Reid is a better offensive coach than Bill but Bill is the greatest defensive coach than Reid. I think another underrated aspect of Bill's coaching is his ability to keep egos in check (for the most part). He has had a lot of players that sacrificed for the greater good and have kept the locker room under control.

Some of that can also be contributed to Brady but look at how many top leaders they've had on defense.

[Phantom255x]

Reid in 18 years won 0 rings. He's obviously come through since with Mahomes, but idk why we're acting like Belichick is trash without Brady while apparently ignoring Reid being in a similar spot without the "GOAT-caliber" QB. Reid's non-Mahomes QB were the likes of McNabb, Vick and Alex Smith among others. Not bad. Right now Belichick is still the GOAT coach and better than Reid IMO. There's still time though, Reid has a shot at reaching Belichick's level or even passing it with 2-3 more SBs. I don't deny that part.

[mobilija]

Head to Head Belichik is 7-5 vs Reid with the last game a win by Reid in 2023

[celticsclay]

Reid in 18 years won 0 rings. He's obviously come through since with Mahomes, but idk why we're acting like Belichick is trash without Brady while apparently ignoring Reid being in a similar spot without the "GOAT-caliber" QB. Reid's non-Mahomes QB were the likes of McNabb, Vick and Alex Smith among others. Not bad. Right now Belichick is still the GOAT coach and better than Reid IMO. There's still time though, Reid has a shot at reaching Belichick's level or even passing it with 2-3 more SBs. I don't deny that part.

People just want to bash him for no real good reason, especially on his way out. It is the impact of first take on our society. Kind of a bummer how much there has been in this thread

I’ll be the first to admit he hasn’t been good the last few years, especially with selecting talent and the team has been poor. But I don’t understand the whole attempt to rewrite history over it. It is very weird. It’s like Jordan playing on a bum knee on Washington that he drained after every game and people arguing “you know he actually wasn’t even good with the bulls either”

[celticsclay]

Reid in 18 years won 0 rings. He's obviously come through since with Mahomes, but idk why we're acting like Belichick is trash without Brady while apparently ignoring Reid being in a similar spot without the "GOAT-caliber" QB. Reid's non-Mahomes QB were the likes of McNabb, Vick and Alex Smith among others. Not bad. Right now Belichick is still the GOAT coach and better than Reid IMO. There's still time though, Reid has a shot at reaching Belichick's level or even passing it with 2-3 more SBs. I don't deny that part.

I would like to point out Mcnabb, who actually has better numbers than a few guys in hall but won’t make, is about 3 leagues above cassel, end of career Newton and Mac.

[Moranis]

Reid in 18 years won 0 rings. He's obviously come through since with Mahomes, but idk why we're acting like Belichick is trash without Brady while apparently ignoring Reid being in a similar spot without the "GOAT-caliber" QB. Reid's non-Mahomes QB were the likes of McNabb, Vick and Alex Smith among others. Not bad. Right now Belichick is still the GOAT coach and better than Reid IMO. There's still time though, Reid has a shot at reaching Belichick's level or even passing it with 2-3 more SBs. I don't deny that part.

And Belichick in 9 years has a losing record and just 2 playoff seasons where as Reid has a well above .500 record in those 18 seasons. And a guy like Smith was mediocre in San Francisco, just 1 playoff season in the 7 years in which he played.  He was really good that one year going 13-3, which led to an overall winning record of 38-36-1, but his 5 years with Reid in KC, he was 50-26 with 4 playoff seasons (and no losing seasons).  All 3 of his Pro Bowl seasons were with Reid.  He had a QB Rating of 79.1 in SF and went all the way up to 94.8 under Reid.  Smith was a middling QB that Reid turned into a consistent Pro Bowler. 

[Goldstar88]

Bill is the greatest defensive coach there has ever been, but Andy is better overall, IMO. In todays NFL, I think every team would choose Reid over Belichick. Andy is calling all of the plays on offense and he’s no slouch with the defense, either. The Chiefs were second best in the league this season. He’s elite at coaching both sides of the field. If Reid stays in KC with Mahomes for another 4 years, I expect that he will pass Bill for career wins.

[SparzWizard]

Sorry to say Pats Faithful but I have to give the nod to Andy Reid being the better overall coach than Belichick.

Belichick with Brady is a winner. Belichick without Brady is crickets to me. Not the GOAT coach to me, but one of the best defensive gurus out there.

Andy Reid had Donovan McNabb, Michael Vick, Alex Smith, Patrick Mahomes and turned them into pro-bowlers. He also had Brett Farve too when he was an assistant coach.