Dwight Howard's uncalled goaltending

[angryguy77]

bumping my idea - can you block a dunk, isn't that goaltending?

also can you block a hook shot like Perk's it starts at the top of the trajectory and comes down....

I have a qusetin too. Is dunking the ball offensive goal tending since the rim is being touch before the ball is all the way through? Not that I'. advocating it being called, just a question of technicality.

[Hoops]

There was one he had I beleive on rondo. The ball clearly hit its apex, but of course no call.

I'm sorry to pick on you, but I see this logic all the time and I don't understand it. Why do people use the word "clearly" when clearly the situation isn't clear. Did I just make myself clear? Using your example above, if it was so clear that the ball hit its apex, then why wasn't the call made? Do you really think the ref saw it and said to himself, "Wow, that ball is clearly at its apex. You know what, that's Dwight Howard - I'm not going to call it"?? I know there are some conspiracy theorists out there, but I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

The much more likely scenario is that it wasn't clear whether the ball was at its apex. In the case where it's not clear, the call could go either way. Maybe there is a bias towards Howard that allows the ref to give Howard the benefit of the doubt on an unclear play. I'd buy that. But I don't buy outright defiance of the rules.

So, my point is this: please don't refer to something being clear when clearly it's not.

Well I saw the replay and when a ball stops going up and it then heads on a straight line before going down towards the rim, I would say CLEARLY the apex had be reached. So to answer you, yes it was CLEARLY a goal tend. As to it being a blown call or treatment, I will go with the star treatment.
 
And to you wondering if refs dont call certain players because of who they are, then  you obviously dont watch much nba. If you believe that noncalls are just the refs giving the benefite of the doubt, then I would love to know what the color of the sky is on your planet.  I suppose you have the same response to some on here wondering how on earth Lebron went 5 straight games w/o a foul. But they just missed those because they just missed them right? the refs would never do anything in defiance of the rules, why they are choir boys. In fact they are so pure not one of them has ever gambled.....oh wait....Ok so one of them has, but the rest are certainly above reproach. thank you for enlightening me, all this time I was blinded and thinking the Jordan rules existed. For years of watching this game and seeing blatant 3-4 steps at times by star players not get called and lesser ones get called, I come to find out that my eyes betray me. Thank you and I appreciate you mentorship.

I watch plenty of NBA basketball and I actually play basketball myself. I've also done some reffing myself. You misunderstand me. I guess I was not clear after all. I totally recognize that star treatment exists in the NBA. Not that I like it. Though I haven't payed close attention, I have no problem conceding that LeBron's low foul count is due, in part, to some help from the refs.

Refs are human and fallible. And they're prone to bias. Unfortunately, NBA refs are biased towards stars. So, if LeBron's defender makes contact that might be a foul, the refs are inclined to give LeBron the benefit of the doubt and blow the whistle. The impact of this bias is HUGE. Same thing with Howard on that block. Howard is a superstar, it was a close call, so they gave Howard the benefit of the doubt and didn't call goaltending.

Despite the Donaghy scandal and other conspiracy theories, I just can't believe that the refs are intentionally making bad calls. Applying an unfair bias on a questionable call? Sure. But intentionally making bad calls? That's a tough accusation.

But back to the original topic of Rondo's shot reaching its apex, you put the nail in your own coffin when you said that it was clear from the replay that it had reached its apex. Sure, lots of things are clear on the replay. But calling a goaltending in real-time is one of the more difficult calls to make in basketball. Try it yourself sometime. Also, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it wasn't goal-tending until the ball started it's descent. If it's hanging on its apex, you can still block. Either way, it's a lot harder to call when it's at the apex than when it's already on the way down.

[Amonkey]

bumping my idea - can you block a dunk, isn't that goaltending?

also can you block a hook shot like Perk's it starts at the top of the trajectory and comes down....

I have a qusetin too. Is dunking the ball offensive goal tending since the rim is being touch before the ball is all the way through? Not that I'. advocating it being called, just a question of technicality.

I am not completely sure, but I think the rule is that the ball can be blocked if the trajectory of the ball when leaving the hand is already down.  Meaning, if the ball is already on the down trajectory, then you can try to block it. 

Another interpretation could be that a player can block the shot if the other player is still touching the ball.

[angryguy77]

There was one he had I beleive on rondo. The ball clearly hit its apex, but of course no call.

I'm sorry to pick on you, but I see this logic all the time and I don't understand it. Why do people use the word "clearly" when clearly the situation isn't clear. Did I just make myself clear? Using your example above, if it was so clear that the ball hit its apex, then why wasn't the call made? Do you really think the ref saw it and said to himself, "Wow, that ball is clearly at its apex. You know what, that's Dwight Howard - I'm not going to call it"?? I know there are some conspiracy theorists out there, but I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

The much more likely scenario is that it wasn't clear whether the ball was at its apex. In the case where it's not clear, the call could go either way. Maybe there is a bias towards Howard that allows the ref to give Howard the benefit of the doubt on an unclear play. I'd buy that. But I don't buy outright defiance of the rules.

So, my point is this: please don't refer to something being clear when clearly it's not.

Well I saw the replay and when a ball stops going up and it then heads on a straight line before going down towards the rim, I would say CLEARLY the apex had be reached. So to answer you, yes it was CLEARLY a goal tend. As to it being a blown call or treatment, I will go with the star treatment.
 
And to you wondering if refs dont call certain players because of who they are, then  you obviously dont watch much nba. If you believe that noncalls are just the refs giving the benefite of the doubt, then I would love to know what the color of the sky is on your planet.  I suppose you have the same response to some on here wondering how on earth Lebron went 5 straight games w/o a foul. But they just missed those because they just missed them right? the refs would never do anything in defiance of the rules, why they are choir boys. In fact they are so pure not one of them has ever gambled.....oh wait....Ok so one of them has, but the rest are certainly above reproach. thank you for enlightening me, all this time I was blinded and thinking the Jordan rules existed. For years of watching this game and seeing blatant 3-4 steps at times by star players not get called and lesser ones get called, I come to find out that my eyes betray me. Thank you and I appreciate you mentorship.

I watch plenty of NBA basketball and I actually play basketball myself. I've also done some reffing myself. You misunderstand me. I guess I was not clear after all. I totally recognize that star treatment exists in the NBA. Not that I like it. Though I haven't payed close attention, I have no problem conceding that LeBron's low foul count is due, in part, to some help from the refs.

Refs are human and fallible. And they're prone to bias. Unfortunately, NBA refs are biased towards stars. So, if LeBron's defender makes contact that might be a foul, the refs are inclined to give LeBron the benefit of the doubt and blow the whistle. The impact of this bias is HUGE. Same thing with Howard on that block. Howard is a superstar, it was a close call, so they gave Howard the benefit of the doubt and didn't call goaltending.

Despite the Donaghy scandal and other conspiracy theories, I just can't believe that the refs are intentionally making bad calls.
Applying an unfair bias on a questionable call? Sure. But intentionally making bad calls? That's a tough accusation.

But back to the original topic of Rondo's shot reaching its apex, you put the nail in your own coffin when you said that it was clear from the replay that it had reached its apex. Sure, lots of things are clear on the replay. But calling a goaltending in real-time is one of the more difficult calls to make in basketball. Try it yourself sometime. Also, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it wasn't goal-tending until the ball started it's descent. If it's hanging on its apex, you can still block. Either way, it's a lot harder to call when it's at the apex than when it's already on the way down.

If you are giving an unfairbias to a player and letting that influence your decision making, then that is the same as intentionaly missing a call. Refs do this all the time when they"let the players" decide the outcome of games in the closing minutes. So who's to say that they don't intentionaly look the other way during the course of the game when it involves certain players. As you said, refs are human and there is no way that they don't see or hear about consistantly bad noncalls. The quality and integrity of the NBA's officiating has long been questioned, and nothing is done about it to rectify the problem. It's universal that starts get preferential treatment, there is not a single person that could sway me into thinking the league is doing the best it can to stop this. Yes there will be bad officiated games and blown calls, but it should have never been permitted to go on this long w/o changes being made. The league instead is thinking about changing the traveling rules so people can't Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. about it. It's like a mayor making drugs legal in his city so he can say he lowered the crime rate.
Yes I used the replay to back my case, but I also would have made that call in real time because rondo shot the ball long before howard jumped to block it. When it happend I would have made the call. You could see it was a goaltend before seeing the replay. The rules states to my knowledge that a ball can only be blocked on its way up, and once that its apparent its ascent is over, any block is considered a goaltend.

[Reddo]

I feel like they let the block on the backboard go way too often.  Half of those shots that Lebron and Wade block by racing from behind are already on the backboard and Dwight does this all the time too.