Author Topic: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)  (Read 30907 times)

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Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2009, 11:37:20 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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one more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable future

Ya cause everybody is clean in basketball.  Dwight isnt on anything

baseball was always a distant 3rd anyway

I've stuck with football despite steroids and spygate

I'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caught
The NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care.  NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.

At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB.  That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't.  It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!

my theory on why baseball is treated different than any other sport is that when this all started it was almost exclusively a Barry Bonds issue.

He was the poster boy for steroids in baseball and since he was almost universally disliked everybody in the media came down hard on him and how terrible it was for him to have cheated.

then it started coming out that steroids was probably used by most of the best players and the media had already dug a hole for itself. To not criticize every other steroid user just as they had done with Bonds would have been completely hypocritical. Thus, they created a never-ending story of their own making.

I bet many regret it now because you can see how uninterested baseball reporters are in this story at this point.


Its the records, baseball loves its numbers and milestones. Baseball fans will debate forever about who is HoF worthy, they stage virtual contests between past and present players. Steriods screws this all up, that is why it became such a big deal.

I don't agree. that's not a reason to care about steroids more in one sport than in another. All the sports have HOFs and records...

you either are outraged by steroids in all sports or none. I think the media created a runaway train with the whole Barry Bonds story. It was a very sensational story, but once they set the bar for Bonds, they had to hold everybody else to it...
I think its silly tell people what they can be outraged by.

Most sports don't have the history and tradition that baseball does, especially with the numbers. Sportswriters and whole generations of fans grew up with baseball primarily through the radio and by reading boxscores. Baseball also lends it self to statistics because it is at it's heart an individual sport. Especially between a pitcher and a batter.

people can obviously be outraged by whatever they want. but if your outrage differs from one sport to another, you are being hypocritical IMO.
Of course you are. But fans aren't rational people to begin with  ;).

Baseball fans care a lot more about records/numbers/average/homeruns etc. Add to it that the home run race between Sosa/McGuire that "brought back baseball" and you have all the ingredients for the media firestorm about steroids. Barry Bonds was an important piece, but he wasn't the primary reason for all of this.

Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2009, 11:39:32 AM »

Offline winsomme

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one more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable future

Ya cause everybody is clean in basketball.  Dwight isnt on anything

baseball was always a distant 3rd anyway

I've stuck with football despite steroids and spygate

I'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caught
The NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care.  NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.

At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB.  That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't.  It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!

my theory on why baseball is treated different than any other sport is that when this all started it was almost exclusively a Barry Bonds issue.

He was the poster boy for steroids in baseball and since he was almost universally disliked everybody in the media came down hard on him and how terrible it was for him to have cheated.

then it started coming out that steroids was probably used by most of the best players and the media had already dug a hole for itself. To not criticize every other steroid user just as they had done with Bonds would have been completely hypocritical. Thus, they created a never-ending story of their own making.

I bet many regret it now because you can see how uninterested baseball reporters are in this story at this point.


Its the records, baseball loves its numbers and milestones. Baseball fans will debate forever about who is HoF worthy, they stage virtual contests between past and present players. Steriods screws this all up, that is why it became such a big deal.

I don't agree. that's not a reason to care about steroids more in one sport than in another. All the sports have HOFs and records...

you either are outraged by steroids in all sports or none. I think the media created a runaway train with the whole Barry Bonds story. It was a very sensational story, but once they set the bar for Bonds, they had to hold everybody else to it...
I think its silly tell people what they can be outraged by.

Most sports don't have the history and tradition that baseball does, especially with the numbers. Sportswriters and whole generations of fans grew up with baseball primarily through the radio and by reading boxscores. Baseball also lends it self to statistics because it is at it's heart an individual sport. Especially between a pitcher and a batter.

people can obviously be outraged by whatever they want. but if your outrage differs from one sport to another, you are being hypocritical IMO.
Of course you are. But fans aren't rational people to begin with  ;).

Baseball fans care a lot more about records/numbers/average/homeruns etc. Add to it that the home run race between Sosa/McGuire that "brought back baseball" and you have all the ingredients for the media firestorm about steroids. Barry Bonds was an important piece, but he wasn't the primary reason for all of this.

but haven't the fans spoken pretty clearly on this. I mean, look at Manny selling out his minor league games....

Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2009, 11:41:26 AM »

Offline bostonfan23

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The crazy quoting makes looking at this thread difficult..

Jeremy Burnitz appears on the list twice. It's sorted very suspiciously. Total fake.

Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2009, 11:45:47 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Fans were pretty p---ed about it, eight years ago. You can only be outraged so long, especially when you still watch and love baseball.

Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2009, 11:47:36 AM »

Offline MetroGlobe

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Who or what in god's name is "D&C"?  Is that a news channel?  A website?  A sweet, savory nighttime snack?

Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2009, 11:49:04 AM »

Offline Birdbrain

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4 games in Football is a 1/4 of the season.  

While 50 games in Baseball is about a 1/3 of the season.  The punishment between the 2 is fairly comparable.

I am done with who is on the list and who is not on the list.  I do not care anymore.  It was in the past and its done and over with.  Baseball needs to move on and the sport as a whole needs to accept what happened and take equal blame, the commissioners, owners and players.  The subject is tiring and boring.

You mean they should move on when it's actually clean?


Will the sport ever really be clean?  Its time to move on.  Steroids happened, the players union knew, the owners knew, all the players knew.  You cannot erase the past and Baseball needs to acknowledge the fact it happened instead of passing the blame from players, to unions, to owners, to revenue.  The subject will of course continue on until every sheep has been shaved of its wool.  Baseball needs to bury it and make sure that it never happens again.  Lesson learned.

Burying it (like some are doing with their heads in the sand) will ensure it won't go away and then we can be sure that there will be another set of bash bros like Manny and Papi.  
« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 12:14:45 PM by Birdbrain »
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Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2009, 11:50:49 AM »

Offline Birdbrain

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There are some guys on this list that are somewhat ridiculous sounding to me... Pedro, for example, was rail-thin and derived much of his pitching ability from his freakishly long fingers. I don't know if actual steroids would have helped him... Maybe HGH to recover from injury quicker, but it was my understanding that it was a steroid only list.

Also, guys with builds that would surprise me on the list include Pedro, Lowe, Sandy Alomar, Brent Abernathy, Craig Monroe, Randy Winn, Fernando Tatis, Robbie Alomar, and Corey Patterson(!), but then again, nothing would surprise me anymore. The whole era is completely tainted, and the only reason I still take pride in the 2004 and 2007 WS titles is because I know everyone else was doing it too so it still was a level playing field.

Also, does anyone surprise you less then Geoff Jenkins, Jeromy Burnitz, and Richie Sexson?  

Yeah every Latin player on the list. 
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Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2009, 11:52:23 AM »

Offline Birdbrain

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one more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable future

Ya cause everybody is clean in basketball.  Dwight isnt on anything

baseball was always a distant 3rd anyway

I've stuck with football despite steroids and spygate

I'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caught
The NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care.  NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.

At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB.  That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't.  It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!

my theory on why baseball is treated different than any other sport is that when this all started it was almost exclusively a Barry Bonds issue.

He was the poster boy for steroids in baseball and since he was almost universally disliked everybody in the media came down hard on him and how terrible it was for him to have cheated.

then it started coming out that steroids was probably used by most of the best players and the media had already dug a hole for itself. To not criticize every other steroid user just as they had done with Bonds would have been completely hypocritical. Thus, they created a never-ending story of their own making.

I bet many regret it now because you can see how uninterested baseball reporters are in this story at this point.


Its the records, baseball loves its numbers and milestones. Baseball fans will debate forever about who is HoF worthy, they stage virtual contests between past and present players. Steriods screws this all up, that is why it became such a big deal.

I don't agree. that's not a reason to care about steroids more in one sport than in another. All the sports have HOFs and records...

you either are outraged by steroids in all sports or none. I think the media created a runaway train with the whole Barry Bonds story. It was a very sensational story, but once they set the bar for Bonds, they had to hold everybody else to it...
I think its silly tell people what they can be outraged by.

Most sports don't have the history and tradition that baseball does, especially with the numbers. Sportswriters and whole generations of fans grew up with baseball primarily through the radio and by reading boxscores. Baseball also lends it self to statistics because it is at it's heart an individual sport. Especially between a pitcher and a batter.

people can obviously be outraged by whatever they want. but if poeple's outrage differs from one sport to another, they are being hypocritical IMO.

No in fact that's called critical thinking.
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Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2009, 11:52:28 AM »

Offline winsomme

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Fans were pretty ****ed about it, eight years ago. You can only be outraged so long, especially when you still watch and love baseball.

I agree. outrage has all but disappeared. but isn't that contrary to the "long-standing damage to the sport and its records" argument for the initial outrage.

to me, the waning outrage is more supporting the Barry Bonds- centric view of why this was initially such a big story in baseball as opposed to the level of outrage against steroids in other sports.

Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2009, 11:56:07 AM »

Offline winsomme

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one more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable future

Ya cause everybody is clean in basketball.  Dwight isnt on anything

baseball was always a distant 3rd anyway

I've stuck with football despite steroids and spygate

I'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caught
The NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care.  NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.

At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB.  That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't.  It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!

my theory on why baseball is treated different than any other sport is that when this all started it was almost exclusively a Barry Bonds issue.

He was the poster boy for steroids in baseball and since he was almost universally disliked everybody in the media came down hard on him and how terrible it was for him to have cheated.

then it started coming out that steroids was probably used by most of the best players and the media had already dug a hole for itself. To not criticize every other steroid user just as they had done with Bonds would have been completely hypocritical. Thus, they created a never-ending story of their own making.

I bet many regret it now because you can see how uninterested baseball reporters are in this story at this point.


Its the records, baseball loves its numbers and milestones. Baseball fans will debate forever about who is HoF worthy, they stage virtual contests between past and present players. Steriods screws this all up, that is why it became such a big deal.

I don't agree. that's not a reason to care about steroids more in one sport than in another. All the sports have HOFs and records...

you either are outraged by steroids in all sports or none. I think the media created a runaway train with the whole Barry Bonds story. It was a very sensational story, but once they set the bar for Bonds, they had to hold everybody else to it...
I think its silly tell people what they can be outraged by.

Most sports don't have the history and tradition that baseball does, especially with the numbers. Sportswriters and whole generations of fans grew up with baseball primarily through the radio and by reading boxscores. Baseball also lends it self to statistics because it is at it's heart an individual sport. Especially between a pitcher and a batter.

people can obviously be outraged by whatever they want. but if poeple's outrage differs from one sport to another, they are being hypocritical IMO.

No in fact that's called critical thinking.

it's critical thinking to be outraged by steroids in baseball but not in football?

either you have a problem with cheating and/or concern about the health risks of steroids or you don't.

"the record books" is a pretty thin reason to be outraged by steroids.

Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2009, 12:03:54 PM »

Offline Jeff

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for the record, I'm "outraged" by steroids in all sports, but I just like football better than baseball for other reasons, so I'm more apt to deal with it than I am in baseball

just my preference, not really a line in the sand or anything
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Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2009, 12:07:20 PM »

Offline crownsy

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one more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable future

Ya cause everybody is clean in basketball.  Dwight isnt on anything

baseball was always a distant 3rd anyway

I've stuck with football despite steroids and spygate

I'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caught
The NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care.  NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.

At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB.  That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't.  It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!

my theory on why baseball is treated different than any other sport is that when this all started it was almost exclusively a Barry Bonds issue.

He was the poster boy for steroids in baseball and since he was almost universally disliked everybody in the media came down hard on him and how terrible it was for him to have cheated.

then it started coming out that steroids was probably used by most of the best players and the media had already dug a hole for itself. To not criticize every other steroid user just as they had done with Bonds would have been completely hypocritical. Thus, they created a never-ending story of their own making.

I bet many regret it now because you can see how uninterested baseball reporters are in this story at this point.


Its the records, baseball loves its numbers and milestones. Baseball fans will debate forever about who is HoF worthy, they stage virtual contests between past and present players. Steriods screws this all up, that is why it became such a big deal.

I don't agree. that's not a reason to care about steroids more in one sport than in another. All the sports have HOFs and records...

you either are outraged by steroids in all sports or none. I think the media created a runaway train with the whole Barry Bonds story. It was a very sensational story, but once they set the bar for Bonds, they had to hold everybody else to it...
I think its silly tell people what they can be outraged by.

Most sports don't have the history and tradition that baseball does, especially with the numbers. Sportswriters and whole generations of fans grew up with baseball primarily through the radio and by reading boxscores. Baseball also lends it self to statistics because it is at it's heart an individual sport. Especially between a pitcher and a batter.

people can obviously be outraged by whatever they want. but if poeple's outrage differs from one sport to another, they are being hypocritical IMO.

No in fact that's called critical thinking.

No, its pretty much the definition of empty justifications and hypocrisy.
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Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2009, 12:28:11 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

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It's strange the hypocrisy crew seem to fall in line with it's over please move on crew.  I wonder why that is?  I hope it has nothing to do with diminishing 2004 and 2007 because that would be called deflecting to me.

My hypocrisy (critical thinking) in regards to how I feel differently about baseball and football stems from a couple of things.  The type of sport (contact), no guaranteed contract, and because the players are literally taking their lives in their hands playing in NFL.  Baseball is closer to badminton than it is football. Barry Bonds as martyr, classic.  Yeah poor Barry was only a great player prior to enlarging his head by 10 sizes.  He was empty he needed to have all the records along with the money and the fame.  It's a witch hunt I tell ya.
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Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2009, 12:32:19 PM »

Offline boscel33

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It's strange the hypocrisy crew seem to fall in line with it's over please move on crew.  I wonder why that is?  I hope it has nothing to do with diminishing 2004 and 2007 because that would be called deflecting to me.

My hypocrisy (critical thinking) in regards to how I feel differently about baseball and football stems from a couple of things.  The type of sport (contact), no guaranteed contract, and because the players are literally taking their lives in their hands playing in NFL.  Baseball is closer to badminton than it is football. Barry Bonds as martyr, classic.  Yeah poor Barry was only a great player prior to enlarging his head by 10 sizes.  He was empty he needed to have all the records along with the money and the fame.  It's a witch hunt I tell ya.

I agree with many things that you say, except, lets ask Tony Canigliaro (and others) about the taking their lives into their own hands thing.
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Re: 2003 Steroid list leaked (D&C is reporting)
« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2009, 12:33:18 PM »

Offline Redz

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Who or what in god's name is "D&C"?  Is that a news channel?  A website?  A sweet, savory nighttime snack?

John Dennis & Jerry Callahan. Morning talk hosts on Boston sports station WEEI.  Very popular.  Mostly annoying.
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