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Quote from: Fafnir on June 30, 2009, 11:31:27 AMQuote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 11:26:44 AMQuote from: Fafnir on June 30, 2009, 11:09:00 AMQuote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 10:40:11 AMQuote from: Rondoholic on June 30, 2009, 10:09:48 AMQuote from: MrTripleDouble10 on June 30, 2009, 10:06:30 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:31:28 AMQuote from: Rondo2287 on June 30, 2009, 09:24:42 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:23:30 AMone more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable futureYa cause everybody is clean in basketball. Dwight isnt on anythingbaseball was always a distant 3rd anywayI've stuck with football despite steroids and spygateI'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caughtThe NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care. NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB. That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't. It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!my theory on why baseball is treated different than any other sport is that when this all started it was almost exclusively a Barry Bonds issue.He was the poster boy for steroids in baseball and since he was almost universally disliked everybody in the media came down hard on him and how terrible it was for him to have cheated.then it started coming out that steroids was probably used by most of the best players and the media had already dug a hole for itself. To not criticize every other steroid user just as they had done with Bonds would have been completely hypocritical. Thus, they created a never-ending story of their own making.I bet many regret it now because you can see how uninterested baseball reporters are in this story at this point.Its the records, baseball loves its numbers and milestones. Baseball fans will debate forever about who is HoF worthy, they stage virtual contests between past and present players. Steriods screws this all up, that is why it became such a big deal.I don't agree. that's not a reason to care about steroids more in one sport than in another. All the sports have HOFs and records...you either are outraged by steroids in all sports or none. I think the media created a runaway train with the whole Barry Bonds story. It was a very sensational story, but once they set the bar for Bonds, they had to hold everybody else to it...I think its silly tell people what they can be outraged by.Most sports don't have the history and tradition that baseball does, especially with the numbers. Sportswriters and whole generations of fans grew up with baseball primarily through the radio and by reading boxscores. Baseball also lends it self to statistics because it is at it's heart an individual sport. Especially between a pitcher and a batter.people can obviously be outraged by whatever they want. but if your outrage differs from one sport to another, you are being hypocritical IMO.
Quote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 11:26:44 AMQuote from: Fafnir on June 30, 2009, 11:09:00 AMQuote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 10:40:11 AMQuote from: Rondoholic on June 30, 2009, 10:09:48 AMQuote from: MrTripleDouble10 on June 30, 2009, 10:06:30 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:31:28 AMQuote from: Rondo2287 on June 30, 2009, 09:24:42 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:23:30 AMone more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable futureYa cause everybody is clean in basketball. Dwight isnt on anythingbaseball was always a distant 3rd anywayI've stuck with football despite steroids and spygateI'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caughtThe NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care. NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB. That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't. It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!my theory on why baseball is treated different than any other sport is that when this all started it was almost exclusively a Barry Bonds issue.He was the poster boy for steroids in baseball and since he was almost universally disliked everybody in the media came down hard on him and how terrible it was for him to have cheated.then it started coming out that steroids was probably used by most of the best players and the media had already dug a hole for itself. To not criticize every other steroid user just as they had done with Bonds would have been completely hypocritical. Thus, they created a never-ending story of their own making.I bet many regret it now because you can see how uninterested baseball reporters are in this story at this point.Its the records, baseball loves its numbers and milestones. Baseball fans will debate forever about who is HoF worthy, they stage virtual contests between past and present players. Steriods screws this all up, that is why it became such a big deal.I don't agree. that's not a reason to care about steroids more in one sport than in another. All the sports have HOFs and records...you either are outraged by steroids in all sports or none. I think the media created a runaway train with the whole Barry Bonds story. It was a very sensational story, but once they set the bar for Bonds, they had to hold everybody else to it...I think its silly tell people what they can be outraged by.Most sports don't have the history and tradition that baseball does, especially with the numbers. Sportswriters and whole generations of fans grew up with baseball primarily through the radio and by reading boxscores. Baseball also lends it self to statistics because it is at it's heart an individual sport. Especially between a pitcher and a batter.
Quote from: Fafnir on June 30, 2009, 11:09:00 AMQuote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 10:40:11 AMQuote from: Rondoholic on June 30, 2009, 10:09:48 AMQuote from: MrTripleDouble10 on June 30, 2009, 10:06:30 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:31:28 AMQuote from: Rondo2287 on June 30, 2009, 09:24:42 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:23:30 AMone more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable futureYa cause everybody is clean in basketball. Dwight isnt on anythingbaseball was always a distant 3rd anywayI've stuck with football despite steroids and spygateI'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caughtThe NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care. NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB. That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't. It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!my theory on why baseball is treated different than any other sport is that when this all started it was almost exclusively a Barry Bonds issue.He was the poster boy for steroids in baseball and since he was almost universally disliked everybody in the media came down hard on him and how terrible it was for him to have cheated.then it started coming out that steroids was probably used by most of the best players and the media had already dug a hole for itself. To not criticize every other steroid user just as they had done with Bonds would have been completely hypocritical. Thus, they created a never-ending story of their own making.I bet many regret it now because you can see how uninterested baseball reporters are in this story at this point.Its the records, baseball loves its numbers and milestones. Baseball fans will debate forever about who is HoF worthy, they stage virtual contests between past and present players. Steriods screws this all up, that is why it became such a big deal.I don't agree. that's not a reason to care about steroids more in one sport than in another. All the sports have HOFs and records...you either are outraged by steroids in all sports or none. I think the media created a runaway train with the whole Barry Bonds story. It was a very sensational story, but once they set the bar for Bonds, they had to hold everybody else to it...
Quote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 10:40:11 AMQuote from: Rondoholic on June 30, 2009, 10:09:48 AMQuote from: MrTripleDouble10 on June 30, 2009, 10:06:30 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:31:28 AMQuote from: Rondo2287 on June 30, 2009, 09:24:42 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:23:30 AMone more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable futureYa cause everybody is clean in basketball. Dwight isnt on anythingbaseball was always a distant 3rd anywayI've stuck with football despite steroids and spygateI'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caughtThe NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care. NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB. That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't. It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!my theory on why baseball is treated different than any other sport is that when this all started it was almost exclusively a Barry Bonds issue.He was the poster boy for steroids in baseball and since he was almost universally disliked everybody in the media came down hard on him and how terrible it was for him to have cheated.then it started coming out that steroids was probably used by most of the best players and the media had already dug a hole for itself. To not criticize every other steroid user just as they had done with Bonds would have been completely hypocritical. Thus, they created a never-ending story of their own making.I bet many regret it now because you can see how uninterested baseball reporters are in this story at this point.Its the records, baseball loves its numbers and milestones. Baseball fans will debate forever about who is HoF worthy, they stage virtual contests between past and present players. Steriods screws this all up, that is why it became such a big deal.
Quote from: Rondoholic on June 30, 2009, 10:09:48 AMQuote from: MrTripleDouble10 on June 30, 2009, 10:06:30 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:31:28 AMQuote from: Rondo2287 on June 30, 2009, 09:24:42 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:23:30 AMone more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable futureYa cause everybody is clean in basketball. Dwight isnt on anythingbaseball was always a distant 3rd anywayI've stuck with football despite steroids and spygateI'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caughtThe NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care. NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB. That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't. It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!my theory on why baseball is treated different than any other sport is that when this all started it was almost exclusively a Barry Bonds issue.He was the poster boy for steroids in baseball and since he was almost universally disliked everybody in the media came down hard on him and how terrible it was for him to have cheated.then it started coming out that steroids was probably used by most of the best players and the media had already dug a hole for itself. To not criticize every other steroid user just as they had done with Bonds would have been completely hypocritical. Thus, they created a never-ending story of their own making.I bet many regret it now because you can see how uninterested baseball reporters are in this story at this point.
Quote from: MrTripleDouble10 on June 30, 2009, 10:06:30 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:31:28 AMQuote from: Rondo2287 on June 30, 2009, 09:24:42 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:23:30 AMone more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable futureYa cause everybody is clean in basketball. Dwight isnt on anythingbaseball was always a distant 3rd anywayI've stuck with football despite steroids and spygateI'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caughtThe NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care. NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB. That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't. It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!
Quote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:31:28 AMQuote from: Rondo2287 on June 30, 2009, 09:24:42 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:23:30 AMone more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable futureYa cause everybody is clean in basketball. Dwight isnt on anythingbaseball was always a distant 3rd anywayI've stuck with football despite steroids and spygateI'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caughtThe NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care. NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.
Quote from: Rondo2287 on June 30, 2009, 09:24:42 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:23:30 AMone more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable futureYa cause everybody is clean in basketball. Dwight isnt on anythingbaseball was always a distant 3rd anywayI've stuck with football despite steroids and spygateI'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caught
Quote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:23:30 AMone more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable futureYa cause everybody is clean in basketball. Dwight isnt on anything
one more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable future
Quote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 11:34:54 AMQuote from: Fafnir on June 30, 2009, 11:31:27 AMQuote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 11:26:44 AMQuote from: Fafnir on June 30, 2009, 11:09:00 AMQuote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 10:40:11 AMQuote from: Rondoholic on June 30, 2009, 10:09:48 AMQuote from: MrTripleDouble10 on June 30, 2009, 10:06:30 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:31:28 AMQuote from: Rondo2287 on June 30, 2009, 09:24:42 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:23:30 AMone more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable futureYa cause everybody is clean in basketball. Dwight isnt on anythingbaseball was always a distant 3rd anywayI've stuck with football despite steroids and spygateI'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caughtThe NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care. NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB. That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't. It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!my theory on why baseball is treated different than any other sport is that when this all started it was almost exclusively a Barry Bonds issue.He was the poster boy for steroids in baseball and since he was almost universally disliked everybody in the media came down hard on him and how terrible it was for him to have cheated.then it started coming out that steroids was probably used by most of the best players and the media had already dug a hole for itself. To not criticize every other steroid user just as they had done with Bonds would have been completely hypocritical. Thus, they created a never-ending story of their own making.I bet many regret it now because you can see how uninterested baseball reporters are in this story at this point.Its the records, baseball loves its numbers and milestones. Baseball fans will debate forever about who is HoF worthy, they stage virtual contests between past and present players. Steriods screws this all up, that is why it became such a big deal.I don't agree. that's not a reason to care about steroids more in one sport than in another. All the sports have HOFs and records...you either are outraged by steroids in all sports or none. I think the media created a runaway train with the whole Barry Bonds story. It was a very sensational story, but once they set the bar for Bonds, they had to hold everybody else to it...I think its silly tell people what they can be outraged by.Most sports don't have the history and tradition that baseball does, especially with the numbers. Sportswriters and whole generations of fans grew up with baseball primarily through the radio and by reading boxscores. Baseball also lends it self to statistics because it is at it's heart an individual sport. Especially between a pitcher and a batter.people can obviously be outraged by whatever they want. but if your outrage differs from one sport to another, you are being hypocritical IMO.Of course you are. But fans aren't rational people to begin with .Baseball fans care a lot more about records/numbers/average/homeruns etc. Add to it that the home run race between Sosa/McGuire that "brought back baseball" and you have all the ingredients for the media firestorm about steroids. Barry Bonds was an important piece, but he wasn't the primary reason for all of this.
Quote from: Birdbrain on June 30, 2009, 10:45:40 AMQuote from: BigDanz2000 on June 30, 2009, 10:29:33 AM4 games in Football is a 1/4 of the season. While 50 games in Baseball is about a 1/3 of the season. The punishment between the 2 is fairly comparable. I am done with who is on the list and who is not on the list. I do not care anymore. It was in the past and its done and over with. Baseball needs to move on and the sport as a whole needs to accept what happened and take equal blame, the commissioners, owners and players. The subject is tiring and boring.You mean they should move on when it's actually clean?Will the sport ever really be clean? Its time to move on. Steroids happened, the players union knew, the owners knew, all the players knew. You cannot erase the past and Baseball needs to acknowledge the fact it happened instead of passing the blame from players, to unions, to owners, to revenue. The subject will of course continue on until every sheep has been shaved of its wool. Baseball needs to bury it and make sure that it never happens again. Lesson learned.
Quote from: BigDanz2000 on June 30, 2009, 10:29:33 AM4 games in Football is a 1/4 of the season. While 50 games in Baseball is about a 1/3 of the season. The punishment between the 2 is fairly comparable. I am done with who is on the list and who is not on the list. I do not care anymore. It was in the past and its done and over with. Baseball needs to move on and the sport as a whole needs to accept what happened and take equal blame, the commissioners, owners and players. The subject is tiring and boring.You mean they should move on when it's actually clean?
4 games in Football is a 1/4 of the season. While 50 games in Baseball is about a 1/3 of the season. The punishment between the 2 is fairly comparable. I am done with who is on the list and who is not on the list. I do not care anymore. It was in the past and its done and over with. Baseball needs to move on and the sport as a whole needs to accept what happened and take equal blame, the commissioners, owners and players. The subject is tiring and boring.
There are some guys on this list that are somewhat ridiculous sounding to me... Pedro, for example, was rail-thin and derived much of his pitching ability from his freakishly long fingers. I don't know if actual steroids would have helped him... Maybe HGH to recover from injury quicker, but it was my understanding that it was a steroid only list. Also, guys with builds that would surprise me on the list include Pedro, Lowe, Sandy Alomar, Brent Abernathy, Craig Monroe, Randy Winn, Fernando Tatis, Robbie Alomar, and Corey Patterson(!), but then again, nothing would surprise me anymore. The whole era is completely tainted, and the only reason I still take pride in the 2004 and 2007 WS titles is because I know everyone else was doing it too so it still was a level playing field.Also, does anyone surprise you less then Geoff Jenkins, Jeromy Burnitz, and Richie Sexson?
Quote from: Fafnir on June 30, 2009, 11:31:27 AMQuote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 11:26:44 AMQuote from: Fafnir on June 30, 2009, 11:09:00 AMQuote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 10:40:11 AMQuote from: Rondoholic on June 30, 2009, 10:09:48 AMQuote from: MrTripleDouble10 on June 30, 2009, 10:06:30 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:31:28 AMQuote from: Rondo2287 on June 30, 2009, 09:24:42 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:23:30 AMone more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable futureYa cause everybody is clean in basketball. Dwight isnt on anythingbaseball was always a distant 3rd anywayI've stuck with football despite steroids and spygateI'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caughtThe NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care. NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB. That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't. It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!my theory on why baseball is treated different than any other sport is that when this all started it was almost exclusively a Barry Bonds issue.He was the poster boy for steroids in baseball and since he was almost universally disliked everybody in the media came down hard on him and how terrible it was for him to have cheated.then it started coming out that steroids was probably used by most of the best players and the media had already dug a hole for itself. To not criticize every other steroid user just as they had done with Bonds would have been completely hypocritical. Thus, they created a never-ending story of their own making.I bet many regret it now because you can see how uninterested baseball reporters are in this story at this point.Its the records, baseball loves its numbers and milestones. Baseball fans will debate forever about who is HoF worthy, they stage virtual contests between past and present players. Steriods screws this all up, that is why it became such a big deal.I don't agree. that's not a reason to care about steroids more in one sport than in another. All the sports have HOFs and records...you either are outraged by steroids in all sports or none. I think the media created a runaway train with the whole Barry Bonds story. It was a very sensational story, but once they set the bar for Bonds, they had to hold everybody else to it...I think its silly tell people what they can be outraged by.Most sports don't have the history and tradition that baseball does, especially with the numbers. Sportswriters and whole generations of fans grew up with baseball primarily through the radio and by reading boxscores. Baseball also lends it self to statistics because it is at it's heart an individual sport. Especially between a pitcher and a batter.people can obviously be outraged by whatever they want. but if poeple's outrage differs from one sport to another, they are being hypocritical IMO.
Fans were pretty ****ed about it, eight years ago. You can only be outraged so long, especially when you still watch and love baseball.
Quote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 11:34:54 AMQuote from: Fafnir on June 30, 2009, 11:31:27 AMQuote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 11:26:44 AMQuote from: Fafnir on June 30, 2009, 11:09:00 AMQuote from: winsomme on June 30, 2009, 10:40:11 AMQuote from: Rondoholic on June 30, 2009, 10:09:48 AMQuote from: MrTripleDouble10 on June 30, 2009, 10:06:30 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:31:28 AMQuote from: Rondo2287 on June 30, 2009, 09:24:42 AMQuote from: Jeff on June 30, 2009, 09:23:30 AMone more reason why I'm done with baseball for the foreseeable futureYa cause everybody is clean in basketball. Dwight isnt on anythingbaseball was always a distant 3rd anywayI've stuck with football despite steroids and spygateI'll stick with basketball when someone's finally caughtThe NFL probably had BY FAR the most abusers, yet people on the whole, seem to either think A) they're clean or B) they don't care. NFL players have a closer resemblance to WWE "performers" than they do actual athletes.At least the NFL wasn't sketchy and had a testing policy with corresponding punishment to give them 100% more credibility than the MLB. That's the real issue...not which players used and which didn't. It's not breaking the rules if the rules don't exist!my theory on why baseball is treated different than any other sport is that when this all started it was almost exclusively a Barry Bonds issue.He was the poster boy for steroids in baseball and since he was almost universally disliked everybody in the media came down hard on him and how terrible it was for him to have cheated.then it started coming out that steroids was probably used by most of the best players and the media had already dug a hole for itself. To not criticize every other steroid user just as they had done with Bonds would have been completely hypocritical. Thus, they created a never-ending story of their own making.I bet many regret it now because you can see how uninterested baseball reporters are in this story at this point.Its the records, baseball loves its numbers and milestones. Baseball fans will debate forever about who is HoF worthy, they stage virtual contests between past and present players. Steriods screws this all up, that is why it became such a big deal.I don't agree. that's not a reason to care about steroids more in one sport than in another. All the sports have HOFs and records...you either are outraged by steroids in all sports or none. I think the media created a runaway train with the whole Barry Bonds story. It was a very sensational story, but once they set the bar for Bonds, they had to hold everybody else to it...I think its silly tell people what they can be outraged by.Most sports don't have the history and tradition that baseball does, especially with the numbers. Sportswriters and whole generations of fans grew up with baseball primarily through the radio and by reading boxscores. Baseball also lends it self to statistics because it is at it's heart an individual sport. Especially between a pitcher and a batter.people can obviously be outraged by whatever they want. but if poeple's outrage differs from one sport to another, they are being hypocritical IMO.No in fact that's called critical thinking.
It's strange the hypocrisy crew seem to fall in line with it's over please move on crew. I wonder why that is? I hope it has nothing to do with diminishing 2004 and 2007 because that would be called deflecting to me.My hypocrisy (critical thinking) in regards to how I feel differently about baseball and football stems from a couple of things. The type of sport (contact), no guaranteed contract, and because the players are literally taking their lives in their hands playing in NFL. Baseball is closer to badminton than it is football. Barry Bonds as martyr, classic. Yeah poor Barry was only a great player prior to enlarging his head by 10 sizes. He was empty he needed to have all the records along with the money and the fame. It's a witch hunt I tell ya.
Who or what in god's name is "D&C"? Is that a news channel? A website? A sweet, savory nighttime snack?